*HP EliteBook 8740w Owners Lounge - PART 1*

Good score knight.

*contemplating*

oh, oh.....
Should I post my 3DMark Vantage score?......
I don't know if Aikimox can handle it.

 

Ironically, despite placing a distant 4th on your list, gaming IS the one thing that actually makes the most use out of your hardware. :yes:
Everything else could easily be handled by a much cheaper ATI/nvidia card and a C2D CPU.

My old 8710w had an FX1600M and it ran AutoCAD and SW like a champ. :yes:

With everything else being equal, the FX3800M equipped 8740w will always have a higher value than the ATI equipped 8740w.
Whether you were to sell it next month or next year.


But it sounds like you made the right choice anyway.

 

Offense? Offense with what? That's YOU, who don't know other computer usage except gaming. Why one may be offended by lack of YOUR knowledge or imagination?

I, for example, need it for software development requiring compilation of complex projects. It requires multi-core processors and CPU power to save my time. There is no need for powerful GPU at all. So, getting environment friendly GPU with low power consumption would be the best for me It'd mean that fan will not be loud cooling unnecessary heat from a powerful GPU that I don't actually need. But unfortunately there is no a big choice...

At the same time, I don't need OC of CPU too - I need stability and reliability. That's why I've postponed the order of 8740w until the crash problem will be resolved. It is inadmissible for my prospective workstation. Loosing several hours of work can't be compared to restarting a game...

Other attractive features (for me, of cause) are non-glossy high-resolution and high-quality screen, backlit keyboard to work at night, USB-3.0, and did I mention, reliability I can't find it in other laptops, and that's why I'm looking for expensive workstations.

I need a powerful multi-core CPU for other projects and ideas (e.g. video editing, etc.) and I'm not crazy about the GPU scores at all (in fact, I don't give a dime about it). Sorry, but not all of us think as you do . So just learn from others and don't be offended by that

 

I've seen more smileys used per page here than I've seen in hundred page threads.

Cut the bickering, please. This is embarrassing.

And since we're talking about usage of the laptop...

I might take my laptop to afghanistan. I do cyberwarfare for the USAF and I like practicing with a network of virtualboxes, so a multi-core processor + 4 dimm slots + ruggedness + smart card reader are essential. The GPU is for my gaming needs off duty.

 

Quick question. I have a brand new FX3700M. Would I be able to use it in the 8740w? It also has 128 CUDA cores and 1GB of GDDR3 VRAM. Besides OpenGL and higher memory bandwidth, who would benefit from the FX3800M over the FX3700M?

Thanks...

 

No.

It needs to have the proper video BIOS from HP. But there is none because the 3700M is not an option on the 8740w.


I tried to upgrade my old 8710w with an FX3700M before and the specs were crippled and it ran unstable.

 

Okay guys, the discussion was fun, but I don't want this getting out of hand.

Let's end it. :yes:

 

could anyone give me an advice of what hp laptop shoud i buy for web design, a laptop with lots of rams and a good gpu?
thanks!

 

That's a bit low for this card. BTW, is this a total score or GPU only?
I wonder if HP drivers limit the card's true potential.

First, your knowledge and imagination doesn't allow you to see the irony of my post for some reason.

Second, the tasks described could be easily fulfilled by at least 10 other different laptop models from Dell, Lenovo and HP. Some of them would cost you about 1/3 of the 8740w's price and 50% of those would be more reliable. My wife has a W510 (~1200$) for instance, and it handles
all activities mentioned in your post, plus some serious gaming with 0 issues.
But we like new and expensive shiny things, don't we?
JK, nvn.

Now you've answered my questions
I shouldn't have even asked those.

First of all, why HP?
Even with a 28% discount Elitebooks still cost significantly more than Lenovo ThinkPads with similar hardware(those have up to 30% discounts as well).
If you need a business grade system:
15" category: HP 8540w, Lenovo W510 or Dell Precision M4500.

17": Lenovo W7xx, Dell Precision M6500 or HP 8740w.

They all have a quad core CPU option and up to 16GB RAM.
It's up to you and your preferences.
Good luck!

 

Well, I'm out. Again. I simply don't have time to wait another 2 months to get a decent laptop.

I think I'll be picking up something on the cheaper end to hold me over until Sandy Bridge. There simply isn't anything else out there that gives me a good screen and DX11...so there's no sense spending a few grand on a laptop that doesn't meet my needs.

I was already worried enough about buying a laptop while it was still known to have major issues (crashes)...but this delay clenches it.

If anyone's looking for 8GB of Geil DDR3-1333 (10667?), an advanced dock, and hdd adapter, I'll have it listed in FS/FT some time next week (need to take some pics).


Good luck to those of you with more patience than I, I'll certainly be keeping an eye on things, as I really want that DC2 panel. Hopefully the next generation will keep it.

 

@ NecessaryEvil,
Too bad, I don't admire the games HP is playing.
By the time DC2 is finally available it will be present in Dell and Lenovo systems , IMHO.
I'm only waiting because of the ATI card. If Lenovo starts offering those with W7xx or even W510 (M5800) - I'm out of here.
I think, waiting for SB is the right decision in this case.

 

Here we go again with the excuses.....

I'm not even going to post my 3D Vantage score because there's no point.

I can only imagine the results with the new Fermi Quadro. New vs New.

The difference is, I wouldn't pay the premium prices for these laptops like you do.

*big sigh*
Oh Aikimox,
Those are not the only programs I run. I only used AutoCAD as an example because it was on knight's list of programs he uses.
For example, I also run C.F.D. simulations on Fluent. But that depends more on CPU. Hence the reason why I was considering the 920XM.
But yes, even the 920xm wouldn't cut it on my bigger simulation models. Which is why I won't buy it.

To answer your question....No, I don't need all the GPU power the 8740w has to offer. The 3800M was just a nice bonus. I would have been just as happy with the M7820.
What I don't do is turn down a killer deal. With the 3800M the laptop will hold a higher resale value. When I'm ready to sell it that is. Even after using it for 1-2 years, I'll still make a nice profit when I sell it.
Can you say that about your Alienware or even the HP (if you ever receive it)?
BTW, I like how you have that HP8740w pic on your sig. even though you don't have it yet.

I just find it ironic that gamers like you buy "business class" laptops that have GPUs with certified drivers, high performance CPUs and $600+ display options. Only to later end up installing the consumer-level drivers to play video games and post a bunch of pointless synthetic benchmarks. LOL :laugh:
I'm sure WoW and Crysis will look great on that color-accurate DC2 display. LMAO

That Alienware laptop IS in fact a better fit for a gamer like you. With SLI configuration I'm sure it'll squeeze out a few more frames/s and higher points on benchmarks.

Okay, I'm done with this subject....let's move on.

 

Those questions were rhetorical, as you have guessed, m8.
Yet the answers might help others when making a decision.
A few clarifications,

Gaming:
With all the JK'ing around don't take me wrong, I didn't buy this system for gaming use. Why would someone with a top notch Alienware rig go for an HP? C'mon.
I do a lot of cross-platform programming and need some decent mobility + 17" screen as a must, since I can't have an external monitor everywhere I go, and I move a lot.
If it wasn't for the 17" 16:10 screen, I'd stop at W510 (the best deal for my money), alas...

Quadro vs FirePro,
Since I don't work with any pro apps. and don't need CUDA cores, the answer is obvious, - M7820 is cheaper, is built on the newer tech. and is less power hungry.
DX11 and gaming is just a small bonus. If I could get the same deal you did, I'd think and possibly go for the RED'd still, as never bought notebooks with intention of reselling those later on.

DC2:

That's the only whim. I'm only willing to go for it due to the huge discount offered by HP SMB. Otherwise - W701 all the way

But, you're right, let's move on. This topic has become too boring.

 

BTW,
No need to imagine anything
Here is the stock Vantage run of the Clevo D900F with Nvidia 480M. GPU score - 7981pts =8k.

Here's i stock 5870 Vantage run. GPU score is 7.9k.
They are pretty much on par @ stock clocks both in synthetics and gaming benchmarks. 480M has an advantage in heavy tessellation however.
I post this for those interested in performance difference between the M7820 and an upcoming Quadro variant of the 480M card.
A word of caution - From Knight's Vantage run, I conclude that HP has limited the full potential of the ATI card with their drivers/Vbios. Hence the lower GPU temps during tests. MR5870 easily hits 90C during Furmark, even in Clevo and AW machines. I wonder, how will the new Quadro perform in this respect.

 

Keep in mind it's very likely the 8740w will be the last business computer with a 16:10 screen. If this is not important to you, then go elsewhere or wait until new models with Sandy Bridge appear. Actually, new consumer laptops already have the 16:9 aspect ratio, and I think there is no exceptions (sadly). This is not good for coding (I'm a software engineer and a web designer). You can watch movies with black bars in 16:9 aspect ratio in a 16:10 panel and you have the necessary vertical room to work more comfortably. That is the advantage you haven't with the 16:9 native panels: you loose real state.

And keep in mind another thing: if the DreamColor 2 is not a fiasco (I doubt it, HP is risking too much with it) and its quality is similar than an expensive NEC, LaCie or Eizo desktop monitor (the *VERY BEST* in the market), I'm pretty sure this screen will not going to be old even when OLED or OLET displays make its appearing. And I'm not sure IPS panels will become mainstream. Market's trend indicates the opposite: companies are saving costs with bad quality controls (MANY computer products, not only laptops, if you don't believe me, read threads about problems with the HP LP2475w or Dell U2410 IPS monitors) and 16:9 panels (the less the size, the cheaper the cost) so in short, in my opinion the 8740w with the DC2 screen could be a good invest for many years.

PS: I'm waiting the 8740w release since december 2009, yes EIGHT months, when I cancelled a CTO 8730w... Patience is a virtue and I think this waiting will be well worth.

 

Stop it Aikimox.......
I feel like I'm watching a train wreck....

That direct comparison between consumer level and pro cards already backfired on you once before.

That's like saying that since the GTX280M and FX3800M are both based on the G92 core, they perform exactly the same.
As it turns out, the Quadro card holds an advantage over the GeForce.

However, in the case of the Firepro vs Radeon cards, it seems to work the other way around.
And the difference between the two is more significant.


The only way to make a fair comparison between the two GPUs would be to test them on same laptop, same specs and same test.
Like knight and I did with our 8740Ws.

 

Let me help you with your own advice:

I hope you get to the usefulness of your own words here

And good luck with your gaming expectations for business class workstation... You'll need it as well as a knowledge on how to modify INI files for video driver installers to convert this computer into a gaming machine. BTW, if DC2 is your the only whim - I really hope that you'll finally get it. And don't forget to let us know your experience then with running games on expensive 10-bit/color IPS screen It'd be interesting to hear the feedback...

 

Thanks for your answer!

 

Totally agree, that's why I offered you a benching contest
And that's why "will not post my Vantage score" is a bit too childish, don't you think. In fact we already know exactly the GPU Vanatage score of the FX3800M - 6.5-6.7k on average. Xsrx's 6.66K and Notebookcheck's 6.58k When posting the score, capture both the total, GPU and CPU scores as well as the temp monitoring program and a GPU-Z clearly showing the clocks.

What in the " Need a 17" 16:10 screen for programming" phrase you do not understand?
Do you want to know why 15" and 16:9 screens do not fit well into my needs? Because the extra 100+ vertical pixels is a lot when working with code 80hr per week.
Who said anything about buying a business notebook for gaming purposes? That was a mere sarcasm inspired by Rampage.
What's going on here? This thread is full of smileys as it is of humor and irony, sarcasm and JK'ing. It would be totally boring otherwise.

As for the DC2,
yes, I'll gladly provide the feedback (if this screen will ever make it out of LG's warehouse).
I'm not too optimistic regarding the input lag in FPS games, but it should be fine, since the system will rarely be used for gaming.

 

I know this wasn't directed at me, but do you need to buy the program to get the CPU and GPU scores? I gave them my email for a single-use key, the results were only available online (see my screen shot in the earlier post) and did not give any breakdown of the score.

Also, I ran it without having HWmon or GPU-Z open. I also did not restart my computer after installing, not sure if that would make any difference. Anyway, I can re-run the test any way you like. I just wish someone would have mentioned it when I had the 720qm machine still sitting around.

 

Engaging on a pissing contest is childish and pointless.


Give it a rest.

 

I'd try another email for another free key, alternatively there are some users out there in benchmarking threads giving away free Vantage keys. I'll look for those for ya.
What is important in the Vantage test is not the total score but a GPU only part, BTW.



@ Rampage,
I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience
possibly caused by my words and attitude
and will do my best to avoid similar manifestations
in the future.
Kind Regards.

 

@ Knight,

You can download this hotfix for Vantage and after installing it and possibly restarting the system it should allow you to use another trial key!

 

OK, but I doubt it is going to give me any breakdown of the score. Still, I'll run it to test temps. Can HWmon log temps like GPU-Z, or do I just have to keep my eye on it during the test?

 

All you need is to keep HWMonitor running in the background and at the end position it on the desktop in this manner.

 

Wow way to take it as a personal challenge.

Sorry to say, but a benchmark "competition" between two systems on the exact same hardware except GPU has absolutely nothing to do with you. Nothing. You don't matter one tiny little bit. Neither does the fact that you own a massively more expensive GPU. What matters is a comparative test between two pieces of hardware where the only real variable is the GPU. It is not pointless and it is not a pissing contest, but you're making it one.


Yay I can use smilies too.

16:10 will probably fade away soonish, but IPS is becoming a more popular technology in general. iPad, iPhone4.

 

@ Koshin,

An idea from your sig - are you going to put an MR5870 in there or try a vbios flash on the FirePro to turn it into a proper MR5870? Is it even possible?
If it figures that M7820 is a downclocked (or limited in some other way) 5870 - I'd just flash it or get a proper MR and swap. What do you think?

 

Yes, on handheld devices, not on laptops. It does not make sense to put a TN panel on an iPad or even on an iPhone, because the user would see the color inversion as soon he turns his head or when he puts the device in an extreme angle (I'm sorry, I don't know how to express this in english, but I think you get the picture).

Manufacturers still think that IPS screens are not necessary because you are not going to see your screen off-center. Color quality, brightness and contrast are secondary questions for them. Manufacturers take care of these factors in consumer laptops by putting those annoying glossy screens and ... voila... you have a "radiant" and "stunning" screen with "extra" contrast. Of course, this doesn't affect to business computers, but hey, they are on another league, they're not for the mainstream.

I wish you were right... However it's true that some mid-level monitors are already equipped with IPS panels, well, exactly, e-IPS panels (more efficient and economic than its variants, but not better than a H-IPS, for example).

To be honest, I think IPS screens will not be mainstream never (except for handheld devices, like an eBook) and the public will have to wait for the OLED/OLET technology appearing (and not at once, but when they would be affordable for the mainstream).

 

If this were true, we'd see IPS screens in all the other tablets or 10" screen devices (of which there are MANY) and in all other smart phones. But in reality, TN screens work perfectly well on my HTC Evo 4G, my old HTC Magic, the iPhone 3GS, netbooks, tablets, and other hand-held devices. IPS is as much of a luxury on the iPhone4 and iPad as it is on a laptop.

I was thinking of trying the vbios flash, but I don't want to be the first person to do it. My first goal will be to benchmark it and find out if it performs the same as a 5870, and if it doesn't, to find out why and fix it without flashing the hardware.

 

Koshinn,
Are you really addressing me with these incoherent rants of yours?
Your rant makes absolutely no sense to me.

You do realize that it's Aikimox, not me, who insists in a "benchmark contest" and that I personally have no interest in those sorts of things?

Are you kidding me!?
WTH gave you such impression?
Your accusations have absolutely no basis.

Unbelievable!!
Yet another senseless rant....
How the hell am I making it a pissing contest? Am I the one who insists on having a benchmark contest?

-I posted my 3dmark06 score simply as a comparison between my nvidia equipped laptop and knight's ati equipped laptop. Nothing more.
-Then both you and Aikimox completely dismissed it at being irrelevant and suggested to use 3dVantage.
Both of you were absolutely convinced the 3DVantage test would show the ATI card was superior.
-Then knight posted his 3dVantage score and guess what? The difference is small.
-And still, Aikimox does not want to accept it and then challenges me to a benchmark contest. LOL

It was at that point that I labeled it a "pissing contest" and decided to end it. Because that's what it was turning into.

@ Koshinn and Aikimox;
I'm sorry the ATI card you both selected for your 8740w is NOT performing according to YOUR expectations.
You both seem to be in full damage control. Calm down.

Frankly I don't care which GPU is better. I thought that message would have been clear by now, but I was wrong....


At least Aikimox and I both realized it was pointless to continue this conversation and mutually decided to end it.
You on the other hand, decided to intrude in a conversation that has nothing to do with you!!

Unbelievable!!!!

Do you guys think we can now FINALLY put an end to this argument and move on?
I really don't want to continue with this senseless argument.

 

@ Rampage,

If you don't care about the GPU comparison, why bother posting your 3DMark06 scores? Why bother even mentioning the benchmarking part? Why do you care continuing the BS talk if it's not YOU who this is all about and your super-mega-deal?
Looks like Koshin is right after all. I thought that after my last post directed to you, you'd at least leave this topic alone.
But since you did what you did you should at least do some research in that area, before making educated claims.
3Dmark06 is not a correct tool for measuring the GPU performance.
Both you and Knight ran the 3Dmark06 test but where are the screenshots of the HWMonitor and GPU-Z? What is the ambient temp in each case? What applications were running in the background? What OS services/processes affected the CPU utilization? I could continue but...duh...?

You both did a Vantage run. Where are the screenshots?
What are the GPU clocks in each case? Max temps?
At least, Knight is ready to go this path and find out (even if out of curiosity, his and ours alike) the performance level of his GPU. This is not to bash anyone with: "My GPU is stronger, I'm da man!", but to explore the potential of your system. That's a scientific approach, a research. I'd do the same if I had the system. Then, I'd run a helluva buncha tests to compare the MR5870 and M7820 to find all the differences between the two both in certified apps and gaming.
Why? I hope by now you guess that this question is pointless.
There are no reviews of the FirePro (and very few of the Quadro), we have the chance to be the first to strip this card down and discover it's full power.
Many would thank us later for providing a valuable information, especially when deciding between the Quadro and FirePro as the main workstation card.
This is not a contest (I used that word to add a little action that's all).

Anyway, I encourage all 8740w owners to join the benching and do something useful other then contemplating about unavailable (yet) DC2 and boasting our huge discounts (especially unfair towards those who paid the full price for the system).
I'm also eagerly waiting for some news from Knight and his secret HP dealings regarding the crashes issue, the most important topic in this thread, IMHO.

 

So, this is what happens when noobs start benching. I ran PCMark Vantage not 3DMark Vantage. I'll run 3DMark Vantage soon with HWmon and post the results soonish.

 

Oh just post it! ...for reference sake. /\/\/ Please?

 

Also, when I run Cupid HWmonitor, I don't see GPU temps.



I'd like to do this right this time. What's going on?

 

@ Knight,
Try HWinfo32 instead or GPU-Z (click the sensors tab, there will be 4 readings, you can check the "Show highest reading" option)

 

LOL :laugh:

This is for you and my buddy Aikimox.

Hey Aikimox, if you still don't believe me, I can put a monkey in the background sucking on a lollipop, while I perform the test. LOL :laugh:

Are you happy now Aikimox?

 

@ Rampage,

Thanks, for posting!
The Vantage GPU Score is a bit low for that card. Hmmm...
Did you run it once only? Any applications running in the background?

 

Yes, only once.
There are always around 61-64 processes running in the background.
But there were no programs, folders or windows open.

Congratulations! the M7820 beats the 3800M by a 79 point land slide.

 

I still think you should get at least 500pts more on the GPU. Are you using HP or the latest Nvidia drivers?

BTW, the total score is unimportant, only the GPU score matters for the GPU comparison. Plus, Knight ran the wrong test and still got a nice score for PCMark ,
heh. 3D Mark is for benchmarking graphics performance while PC mark benchmarks overall system performance

 

I sincerely hope knight can post a much better score so you guys feel better.
Hopefully the 820QM bumps it up a few hundred points like it did on the 3DMark06 test.

 

It's not about feelings, I'm curious to see how big is the difference between the Pro and MR 5870. If the performance is similar we should see 7.8-8k on the GPU Score.
CPU is irrelevant for the GPU Score, that's why we don't even need to look at the CPU and Total scores. 3DMark06 on the other hand is greatly affected by the CPU.

 

The combined score IS a product of all the tests performed on the CPU and GPU, amongst other things.
Are you telling me that if the GPU score for the M7820 turned out to be 50K, his total score wouldn't be affected at all? LOL

 

3DMark Vantage Score:


HWinfo:

 

Nice! Now that's more like the MR5870. +- 100-200pts is nothing. 7.56k is only 200-300pts away from the 480M which costs almost 3 times more.
Now I'm really impressed with the cooling system.
73C max is very very impressive.
Thanks for posting, Knight!
Looks like M7820 is indeed an uncut MR5870.
I'd run some gaming benchmarks and CAD as well.
But for now, that's a good start.
I'd rep all involved but have given too much today and the system doesn't let me

 

So the 3d mark vantage score he posted was pcmark, and there isn't anything wrong with the firepro?

 

Technically, I did post it as PCMark Vantage. Either no one noticed or your guys gave me more credit than I deserved and figured it was just a typo.

 

That's right and to me it looks like a true MR5870. We'll have to check some gaming benchmarks to be sure, but I'm optimistic. What puzzles me is the relatively low GPU temps for that card. I expected to see 80-85C during Vantage and 95C+ (at least for the memIO sensor) during Furmark but Knight did both and got max 73C in Vanatage and 80C in Furmark.
Bewildering....

 

I & the archives thank you.

 

...and noone rep'd me for my insightful review a good number of pages back either. j/k; it read "I have a review for ya; this just in. HP bit off more than it can chew with this 8740w offering...".

 

@ Rampage,

Could you please run Vantage once more, even though the system won't let you see the scores if you're using a trial version, but keeping the HWMonitor or HWinfo32 (or any other temp monitoring tool that can show the max temps, not just the current ones) running in the background and post the CPU and GPU max temps?