*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (1XXX series) Owners Lounge*

I disconnected the Zalman cooler, which was plugged into the USB port, so that could be it. One problem solved if that's the case-- though the heat remains a serious problem. But thanks.

 

From what I have read, there is a great deal of misinformation about how to take care of batteries and how to maximize their life span in months/years or # of charges, as opposed to hours per charge. I am convinced by the recommendations of people who are engineers, who design Litium Ion batteries. This is what I believe is the "real" truth about lithium ion batteries:

If you leave it in the computer and the computer is always plugged in, it will shorten the number of cycles (charge/discharge uses) and will, over time, shorten the amount of mwh, the measure of how much capacity the battery has per each full recharge. There are two primary reasons for this: 1) it will keep the battery at or near 100% charged all the time; the battery will retain more charging cycles and more power per recharge over time when it is kept at 40-60% charged. If you are only using your notebook on ac current and want to maximize the number of recharges and power per recharge, you want to leave it partially charged, at 40-60%. If you want to have a well charged battery at the ready, I've heard keeping it at 80% charged is still pretty good. 2) The battery will retain it's charging power and number of charges best when kept at 40-60 degrees F. Keeping the battery in the notebook, the ambient temperature near the battery, especially in a beast like the Envy 17, will be more like 80-120 degrees F. Thus, the best way to maximize the number of charge cycles and the power per recharge is to leave the battery in a cool, dry place (40-60F is ideal, but any drawer in a well air conditioned house will keep it in the 70-80 degree F in the summer, finding a cooler place in the winter should be easy.

Here are some myths debunked:

1) It is not good to fully charge then fully discharge you battery. It is never good to let the charged battery fall below 20% charged nor, as noted above, go much above 60% charged. 100% and 0% are hardest on the battery and doing this will shorten the lifespan (# of cycles) and, if you do this often, you will notice a larger and larger percent of the original charge capacity is gone. For example, if you have a 72 mwa battery, you will see it's capacity go down over time to 68 mwa, 65 mwa, etc. At 65 mwa, the maximum capacity of the battery in the example is down by 10%, meaning that fully charged it will give you 10% less life, to any level of discharge you set as the "critical/shutdown" level.

2) Those who advocate "calibrating" your battery, usually a process of fully charging and fully discharging, (and HP actually does so in its literature) are giving you bad advice. As noted above, this practice will reduce the capacity and ultimate # of cycles in your battery. At most, "calibration" may give certain battery capacity meeters greater accuracy, so that when it says "40% remaining," there's a better chance that this is accurate than without calibration. Form what I have read, using a third party battery meter, like BatteryBar (get it at download.com, the paid version, $7, has some useful features and is well worth it).

Finally, a little reality check. I only recently learned most of what I have described in this post, but I believe it to be very accurate, since I read a lot and the well informed inputs were consistent. That said, I have had a dv8 Core i7-720 for 6 months and I have two batteries, 1 I leave in a drawer in a cool room in the basement, the other I have *always* left in the battery slot in the computer - i.e., just about always plugged in, charging to 100% and in an unfavorably warm environment for it's lifetime cycles and capacity. The battery I left in the drawer, charged to about 60%, has lost 0% of it's original full charge capacity, 73.4 mwa. The battery that has lived continuously in the computer, always charged to 100%, always in higher heat than is good for it, has lost 4% of it's original capacity, going down to 70.0 mwa. Part of me thinks that's a lot better than the purists would predict, since I am doing "everything wrong" except that I rarely drain it to 10%, but I do that too upon occasion, when I actually use it on battery for the 15 mins it lasts - lol, it's really about 1:45 Since I rarely use the battery, I don't know if I have killed the future # of charging cyles - ie, I don't know what would happen if I started using the battery often, charging it to 80% and having it hibernate at 20%, whether I would find my lost capacity (the 4% in 6 mos, but with little battery use) starts accelerating with each battery use and I will only get, say, 500 usable charge/discharge cycles when, I have read, a well made and well maintained LI battery is good for 2,000 cyles or more. At this point, there is some utility for me to have a battery always at the ready with a 100% charge and 96% of the battery's original rated capacity. If I start to use the battery more often and find it precipitously dropping from 96% to the 80s, then 70s, I'll have my answer. Still, though I hate to waste a toxic substance (which can be safely recycled, but at a cost), the cost to me of the extra battery ($60) makes a nice luxury that provides me on the rare occasions I use it, with a nearly full charge.

I hope this "tutorial" was helpful. I have no corner on the market for battery knowledge, but even within the NBR forums I've seen many useful threads on LI battery care and life, and often PhD EE's contribute knowledgeably. I will say that I may have gotten a point here or a degree there wrong, but I believe this to be an accurate and reasonably informative guide "you can use."

By all means, let's hear more, differing opinions.

 

neilk47,

You can find ABR here: ABR (Activation Backup and Restore) | directedge.us

The BIOS update should go smoothly, I have not heard of anyone encountering a problem with it yet. However, if you want to be as safe as possible, go ahead and make your backup disks as soon as possible. It's typically one of the very first things I do on a new system, before I screw anything up

 

Core i7/i5 processors with Hyper-Threading technology enabled have the ability to put threads to "sleep". So during idle and low usage up to 4 of the 8 threads (quad core) can be put to sleep in order to save power and keep temps lower.

I have to say my i7 820QM was only marginally warm when internet browsng with 7 tabs open. It certainly got hotter when using Photoshop or After Effects for an hour, or gaming.

Hoping to hear back from HP later today on when I can exoect to receive a next gen 17. Been nearly 3 weeks since I brought the first one.

 

I believe HP may have the worst customer service I have ever dealt with. What kind of major computer manufacturer has absolutey no idea what is going on in their own production line? They are just order takers for a sub-contracted chinese run factory. Every attempt for them to give me yet another est. ship date has just been a wild hopefull guess. My order has been in for 26 days with 3 missed ship dates and today They gave me another "guess" of july 1, hell thats the est ship date if someone bought it today. Something is amiss in Shanghai as people here on this forum who ordered after my 1st est ship date have already received their computer. Just felt I had to vent but HP has seriously ticked me off from their shoddy "verification" process for 1st time buyers and then every step along the way. I think I need to cancel tomorrow, just need to cool off tonight and think about it, maybe re-order in a month or so when all the bugs are worked out and quality control is more consistant.

Thanks for listening and I wish I could be tinkering with the 17 with all of you.

 

Only one small thing to consider: Yes, a full charge and full discharge uses up a cycle on your battery. But the number of cycles is more or less fixed.

Example of what I mean, let's say the battery has a 500 cycle limit. A common figure. That means it can take 500 full charge and discharge cycles (of course with diminishing capacity along the way down to zero cycles left.) I think what seems to be missing from this discussion is that if you only always do a "half" cycle, meaning discharging to 50% then charging back up to 100%, you'll get 1000 of those half cycles. There isn't any gain of cycles. It's still based on full charge/discharge of 500 cycles.

So if you routinely use down to only 75% then charge back up to 100%, you'll get 2000 of those cycles on a battery that has a theoretical max of 500 full cycles.

Calibration every 6 months means you lose a full cycle each time. So if you routinely discharge down to 50% before charging to full, you now lost 2 of those cycles. Down to 75% before charging to full, you now lost 4 of those cycles. And so on and so forth.

All of this is underpinned by the fact that no matter what, LI-ion batteries will lose capacity over time regardless of how you use them. Let them sit in a warehouse or in a desk charged to 40% for a few years and they will lose a significant amount of capacity. In many cases, they will be dead.

In any event, the post was well stated in many reagrds. Batterybar sort of overcomes the need for calibration since it can calculate battery wear and compensate for percent and time remaining based off it.

Right now, Batterybar is having a special: pay any price for a lifetime license from $1-$10.

Osiris Development - BatteryBar, the most accurate battery meter for Windows

 

With Lithium batteries, keeping them at 100% capacity will degrade their maximum capacity much faster than keeping them half charged. In fact you can lose up to 20% of their maximum capacity in just one year by keeping it fully charged.

Make sure you discharge it often! If you're wanting to store your battery for a long period of time, keep it at 50% for the best preservation. Charging and discharging to 50% once a month also helps your battery while in storage.

Heat, moisture, and age will also kill your maximum capacity. So keep your laptop cool and don't buy an extra battery unless you need it. It's better to buy a second battery 2 years later than have an extra one sit around and lose it's charging potential.

Discharging your battery to 0% can also cause your battery to not be able to hold a charge at all! So never ever let or try to drain your laptop all the way down.

Apple agrees: Apple - Batteries - Notebooks

Battery life tips: How to Maximize the Battery Life of Your Windows Laptop

 

So HP have confirmed that the Envy 17 1019tx will be avaliable for order from June 29 in New Zealand. This is the first update of the product, the previous was 1006tx. I am waiting for them to confirm the specifications of this model. Then if I'm happy they will ship one to me in July.

 

the last five laptops i've had i never encountered issues with the batteries and, in fact, had as much charge they days i sold them as they days i first charged them. i keep my laptops for around 2 years.

i normally have the laptop plugged into the wall ALL THE TIME. when i go out i unplug it and about 70% of the time i forget to plug it back in until a day or two has passed. then i plug it in and leave it plugged in. while roaming at home i'll unplug it and after i'm done i'll plug it back in. i do exactly what you're not supposed to do and, call me crazy, i never have issues with my batteries.

 

Interesting, let us know what you hear. I don't think I'd bother unless they actually reworked the internal design to fix the heat issues, but I am curious what they may have up their sleeves.

 

Funny thing is, you'll find that scenario to be more or less true of most notebook owners, myself included. But then again, not all batteries are built the same and of the same quality. So as they say, YMMV.

 

What happens with the BCB if I ask HP for a refund? Is there some process I need to go through for canceling that?

Also, how is the heat with the Envy 15?

 

Can you try to find out what kind of changes they made? Thanks.

 

Well put, my man (and here, I was trying to find you irritating !) Seriously, it's probably time to put to rest another myth about battery maintenance: the "best practices" will preserve your battery capacity, but they require that you don't use it the way that you need to! It's like you say, Mr. 2.0 (what were you like in V1.0?), YMMV, and what good is it if you can get 50 m.p.g. out of your car, but by only driving it on mild dry days?

I was trying to be informative and myth-busting, but in this case, knowledge may just be, uh, knowledge and the "best" way to use your battery is the way that suits your convenience when being totally wireless, even if it does take 100 high capacity cycles from your battery's life. And since battery capacity does decline with time, even if you don't use it, you may find you've avoided using your battery "unwisely" for so long, that it doesn't hold a charge anymore, and you have to buy a new one anyway. Go figure.

 

Do yourself a favor: stop kicking yourself! You probably would never notice the difference if you had an 17-720 or an i7-840 under the hood. I've seen benchmarks. Spend any and all available cash on an SSD before even considering a cpu faster than, for real, a Core i5-430! The money you spend going from a Core i5-430 to a Core i7-840 will get you nothing you will feel in real life, while just adding a $200, 80GB SSD to one of your drive bays, for the OS and frequently used programs, will make you think your computer has been supercharged! The cpu, even a core i5-430 has finished it's work long before your slow HDD (or your slow Internet connection) knows that something has happened. Not my opinion but, apparently "true fact!"

 

How do the new Dell Studio 17's stack up against the Envy? Any comments? I have an order for ENVY, just wondering if made the right choice?

 

Yes, please, as soon as you know, post something up here, I have my 2nd Envy (replacement) OTW, but I'm already set on sending it back when it get's here because it's seems the heat issue is normal, and W, A, S and D key's getting too hot to touch while gaming is a deal breaker.

 

Yes I was just told today that they had confirmaion of this new model being avaliable. I asked for some specs or even better a service manual, and they are getting that for me so once I know, I'll let you all know.

But these ones (1019-tx) are still being built so there's little known about the internal design or what's changed, if anything.

 

Here's my battery at 100% charged...where's my 62mWh as stated in the manual?



Here is another shot of the battery drained a little...the Full Lifetime figure of 1:11 is pretty close to when I get the Windows warning message about battery drain.

 

Jaxxy when are you meant to be receiving your 3rd replacement?

 

I've been quoted 1st July. I am trying to inquire as to whether it will be the G2.


EDIT:
I have got a new issue, I think someone else complained about it a while back...the number pad no longer works, it appears the numlock is off and i can't turn it on, so none of the numbers work, they just register as arrows...I tried the registry entry HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Control Panel\Keyboard\InitialKeyboardIndicators=2 but it doesn't work...anyone have a solution?

 

In the Logitech bluetooth Cordless Desktop MX 5500 Revolution the jolly key to enable/disable numpad is CAPS LOCK, maybe is the same for E17.

Can you try it ?

 

Try something like RJL Software - Software - Utility - NumLock

 

Thanks guys, I found a solution from another forum:

To configure a script to change the NUM LOCK state
1,Start Notepad.
2,Copy the following code, and then paste the code into the text file:

set WshShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.SendKeys "{NUMLOCK}"

Save the file as "numlock.vbs" (including the quotes). This properly creates the file with the .vbs extension.
Copy it to the starup folder

 

How and why could HP have boogered up something as simple as a numlock key? Somebody please explain it to me.

 

it costs a lot to make a NumLock key

 

Can anyone post a close up pic of the keyboard, especially the number pad along with the home end pg up and down keys?

 

One the first post of this thread you will find links to videos and pics. Most interesting is the keyboard flex video Jaxxy posted.

 

Had the same issue when i started switching back and forth from VM's. Launch your virtual keyboard and select the num lock on/off from there. You may have to enable the "advanced options" checkbox or something like that under preferences. Don't have my laptop on at the moment so im not sure of the exact wording. That should do the trick. No script needed.

 

Honestly, I see the keyboard flex as the least of this things problems. I didn't notice it, and you have to push decently hard to see it. With that being the case, I just don't see how anyone could make a case about it. If it's not a problem under "normal use" I don't see it as a problem. Even when you flex it, it's not like a trampoline, there is a little give, and that's it.

Real issues I see:
1) Heat: exhausting a lot of heat is fine, a loud fan is even passable, but to build the thing where the heat interferes with the human interface is poor design. My hand should not be sweating under normal gaming, and burning in "hot" scenarios.

2) Joints: how the pieces fit together, the joints just don't have a good way to merge seamlessly. I think most people will have gaps that go unnoticed, but they will be there, and worse, they are not uniform. The way it's connected, it kind of bends in and out of being flush in a lot of cases. Again, another flaw in design, as there's only so much build quality can salvage here.

3) Wobble: The laptop has a noticeable wobble when placed on a flat surface. For some is with the 6 cell, others the 9 cell, others not at all. I'm hoping some replacement pads will solve the issue, but come on, it doesn't seem like a lengthy or arduous task to set the laptop up after build and see if it wobbles before shipping.

 

No longer the proud owner of an Envy 17. Well to tell the truth I never even had it to begin with. First a shipping date of June 15th. Then the 18th. Now July 1st!!!!! I dont think so! With a purchase date of June 3rd I would have waited nearly a month for my computer. HP has the WORST customer support EVER!!! Nobody seems to know anything, and if you ask questions you just get told that another department "might" know more information. And with the list of problems here why would anybody even think of wasting their money on a computer that will take weeks, if not up to a month and beyond, to arrive. Yes it looks like a good computer, but i'll make some sacrifices to get better customer support. HP has lost all my business and will continue to tell people to STAY AWAY from such a poorly run company!

 

I just oredered mine June 21 and estimated Ship date is June 30th....

I got the 25% BCB.... its my first time using it

Does anybody know when I will be able to see it pending or on hold or whatever in my BING account so at least i know it was processed.

 

I've always received the BCB notification within an hour of the order (most of them within the first 10-15 minutes). If it's been a day and you still haven't received one, then it most probably wasn't processed correctly. You can wait another day (Bing requires waiting 2 days after the order) and open up a service request with Bing.

 

Thanks for the answer.

Ill contact them tomorrow if nothing shows up by then =)

 

So are those who have the envy 17 happy or is was this a mistake for myself ordering this?! i would have liked the envy 15 but they didnt update it like the envy 14 and 17 with optical drive, backlit keyboard, and synaptics mouse pad...should i have waited!? i mean i actually fell in love with the envy 17 dute its specs and its quite portable for a 17 inch? whats everyones opinion??

 

Alas, I cancelled my Amazon order for the Envy 17 today - who knows when it would ship, and the heat issues listed would not have worked well for my wife (or myself, for that matter). Went for a customized Asus G73JH-A1 from powernotebooks.com (160GB SSD, 500GB HDD, cleaned up Windows). I'll still be following this thread, though, because I'm interested to see how things turn out with this notebook.

Oh, and she loved Asus's included one year accidental damage protection warranty.

 

I think it depends on what you're looking for. I'm a software developer and don't play any serious games. Except for the heat, which so far is annoying but not intolerable (i720 with light use), I like the E17 a lot. The fit and finish of my unit are good but not in the league of my older MBP 17. The performance blows it away in every dept. It's a tougher call vs. the E15 I had for the 21 day trial period. I prefer the portability and dual SSD of the E15 but for me the integrated BluRay, 17' display and the three-spindle design of the E17 more than compensate.

 

My Envy arrived today. It shouldn't have. I cancelled the order when the second delivery date didn't match what the HP CS rep indicated. To her credit, it arrived two days early. Even though, I was assured they could catch the PC in Shanghai so it wouldn't ship. Then they said they called Fed X so it wouldn't be delivered... And here it is, unboxed on my table. To bad though. I cancelled it due to the HP run around and lack of accurate communications - Not to mention the heating issues scare the heck out of me. Too much to deal with. I'll return it today or tomorrow. HP won't issue a credit until it's at their warehouse in TN - So I've been told.

Saturday, I purchased a new version HP DV7-4087cl i5 from Sams Club. I opened it up and the screen didn't work. HP tech support said it was a bad power supply, but even when we could get the power light to come on, you could barely see anything on the screen. I returned that back to Sams and now in a funk about what PC laptop to get. My wife is balking at the price of a Macbook / pro.

Oh well. It's off to Fed X I go...

 

Well guys, I am going to get my Envy 17 exchanged. The wobble is annoying me now. It's about a 1mm difference between the distance from the edge upper edge of the laptop to the table when you compare the left and right bottom edges. Sure it is not much, but whenever you go to use the NUMPAD, you can feel the laptop tip down and the screen shakes a bit. Though it isn't a big deal, there is also a dead pixel and I seem to notice it all the time even though it is near the upper right edge of the screen.

It doesn't seem to be a balance issue. It seems to be more of a production issue. From my materials processing experience, if they did not maintain enough pressure when sheet molding the bottom chassis, the chassis could have warped while it cooled. This seems to be a more logical explanation. The price of the Envy 17 went up about $50.82 according to the representative I spoke with. They are going to charge me the difference and then refund it when the replacement ships. They are going to give me 2 day shipping for free. Hopefully the replacement is defect free.

 

I'm at T minus two days for shipping on an E17 and getting more and more remorseful about spending $2500 for an HP flagship system. I'm on my third 17" HP laptop a dv7 cto. NO actually I configure two previous DV9000s and this dv7 was a bestbuy purchase. NOW Bestbuy has a dv7 online with a 1TB hdd, not 2 5s, a single 1 TB. HP is running buyers around with their 3 premium models, dv7, dv8 and envy, but will not offer certain features on each of them. If you want a 256 ssd you have to buy the dv8. Want a backlit KB you have to buy the envy. Want a 1TB hdd you have to buy from Best buy. And to boot, the BB dv7 comes in a aluminum case for $1299. I'm fairly sure I'll unbox the envy and fire it up for a day or two, then call in for a return.

 

My wobble is like the Igor's hump in Young Frankenstein. Sometimes it's on the left, sometimes on the right and sometimes not at all. I suspect in my case it may have to do with warpage of the case as it heats up unevenly.

 

That is a possibility. I had my Envy turned off for half a day. When I came back, it seemed like the right bottom leg was touching down more, but I could still slide an index card under it. This time though, not as easily.

The plastic used is industrial grade. In order words, it should be able to handle well upward of 250 to 300 C.

 

Wait, so you cancelled your order while it was in production? My rep told me I couldn't do that.

 

@jaxxy what model number is your current one? 1006-tx? Just ask them what the model number of the replacement and if it's different to your current unit then that will be G2. It may be something similar to the one they will order for me 1019-tx. It should be, most likely avaliable in NZ and Aus at the same time in early July.

@metril how did the replacement legs go? The wobble certainly isn't massive but yea just annoying. And I didn't notice it for a few days, meaning the thing may have been warping as it heated up and cooled down.

 

Actually, I cancelled
It afternot was built and shipping data had been sent to fedx. It was still awaiting pick up. The only two reps that seemed to know what they are were talking about was the person who took my order and he one who set up he return. They must be very good at those two processes.

 

Well, no longer Envy 17 owner, officially canceled another replacement that was in progress, also sending back the care package warranty info. Awesome looking laptop, but for the i7 820 to crank out that much heat to cause keys to be too hot and actually locked it up, is a deal breaker. I may look into the 2nd gen, but doubt it, prolly going with the Asus, I don't like the bulkiness of up, but it works, it's cooler and it's cheaper. I had such high hopes for the Envy 17, I do hope the 2nd Gen is great for everyone that buys it.

 

Laughed for a minute on that one, love your movie tastes! "You take the bag, I'll take the blonde" says I-gor

 

Sounds like they're treating us Texas boys like a crop of mushrooms, keepin' us in the dark and feedin' us alot of B.S. and such.

 

It sucks that many of us wanted to like the Envy 17. Coming from my Envy 15 2ng Gen, I really thought they were going to get everything right this time around. sadly, not the case. Hoping for an Envy 15 third iteration now, with a 5850, edge to edge glass, backlit keys, and minus the internal optical drive again for cooling considerations.

 

Planning on returning my Envy 17 tomorrow.

How does the Envy 15 compare in terms of heat and performance?