*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (2XXX series) Owners Lounge*

Or a watered down Chili at Wendys? I did "return" the chili and ordered something else.... Happened yesterday.....but that's way off topic..lol...(for those of us who get the joke)

KJ

 

I will refrain from responding to your posts, it seems that is what you want.

A) I suspect and another member also suspected that you were "re-instating" the "facts" in an ill attempt to harm my reputation. (Fyi I am not displeased with the HP Envy, just with HP).

Anyways good luck, hope you do well with your sale and your purchase of an Envy 17 3D

 

Well, it is valiant that you are doing this for the board - God knows we need an answer to this issue without us being the ones pulling our hair out trying to figure it out ourselves. For me personally...it'd be really convenient if your contact could figure this thing out before my 21 day return period is over
As for my other comments - you do "get" what I'm saying about the secrecy thing no? It can come of being a bit elitist...which is how I have taken some of your other comments. Maybe I've just read you wrong on first impression. So...let's start on a second impression and see how it goes.....for me and for you.

 

EDIT: You really are not worth the effort or my time. Suffice it to say that I've never once asked you to directly reply to my post(s) and the last post I made was asking Apoxxx and Peaches. THAT'S IT

 

Yeah sorry failed meaning it seems to turn itself off and start powering up again.... I open the lid, the backlit keyboard lights up for half a second (I've tried with and without backlight on) and then I get the HP logo followed by the standard windows menu asking me to choose to boot in safe mode, normal etc etc.

The only software I have on is Tridef, multiple web browsers, Photoshop, Office Pro 2010, FTP, text editor, puTTY, Dropbox, Malware Bytes Anti-Malware and the standard HP stuff that's preloaded.

 

I know this probably isn't going to seem logical - just using my gut at this point. Try removing the battery and doing the longer tests again.

EDIT:: oh geez....did I just sound like an HP tech support person with that response?? I might run a mem test as well. If I'm thinking correctly - sleep data is held in memory while hibernate is written in a file to the hard drive. So...barring a software issue (which I hate to say, but this probably IS a software issue that we could chase our tails on for days) it looks like a power issue or *maybe* a memory issue - but I'm doubting the memory issue if you aren't experiencing any other weirdness - but checking it is what I'd do to be thorough.

 

KJ, chances are most manufacturers are okay with a little throttling. They do put the label "Speeds may vary" for a reason. This includes: Sony, HP, Dell, and Apple. All 4 have told me a couple to several times a little throttling is okay as it is a safety feature for those who decide to use laptops in very ill places like couches/laps and even for those who use them in proper surfaces just for safety.

Once I get more concrete information, depending on the consequences yes I will be releasing the information or not (I would give the information to resolve the issue regardless of the consequences once I receive it).

 

Yeah many people say I sound elitist, and I will agree with them but I do it for good reason.

Okay further information I just uncovered it seems Coolsense may be operating using what most fan controllers use which is they run the program, you make your selection or settings then the program sends a communication to the BIOS to change it's thermal fan control settings as well as other settings like say performance.

So as long as cool sense is not opened, it should not be running in the background and should not be causing the throttling as long as it's set to performance mode.

I am still investigating on my behalf on solutions to fix or to at least alleviate the throttling. So far nothing too good :'(

 

Just a battery FYI...

Did some pretty heavy work on battery today. Started at 100% ran it down to 5% utilizing quite a bit of keyboard work, and some multitask...3 hours 10 minutes...not bad for 6 cell...

 

No matter. One person can still make a difference, as long as the goal is there. Besides we are all here in the same boat working toward converting this oar wooden boat into a super speed water craft tearing the waves in half! Ok, cheezy analogy, don't sue me, just trying to cheer up the mood.

Anyway, Crimsoned I took a look at your thread and once I'm "ready" I'll do those tests and report on your thread. I do hope others will contribute to it, and therefore it may bring us to a more rapid solution.

KJ

 

Ah I tried this one, this was suggested by HP I had issues with my Dell where I had to remove the battery and hold down the power button to fully discharge power every so often as the touch sensitive media buttons would get stuck on. So I can see it could be relevant, but no luck with that.

 

I edited my last post - may want to read again. Last thing I can think of is just double checking your memory. Other than that...this girl is out of ideas

 

Jase-Uk can you private message me your situation perhaps I can help further.

 

Hey Crimsoned...

I am gonna use HWInfo32 to monitor my speeds. Over the years, I have always had issues with CPU-Z. On my Dell Inspiron, I would run it and it would automatically set my processor to 1 GHZ vs stock 2 GHZ. I ran it when I first got the envy...without a load...it registers my CPU at 798. For some reason CPU-Z messes with speed step and processor speed for me. I will run HWInfo32 and post results...

Didn't need more than three minutes...wow...throttling like crazy

 

yeah sure use what'd you'd like. You can also use Intel Turbo Boost Monitor 2.0 to reconfirm hwinfo32 (that's how I confirmed CPU-z accuracy).

 

I'm a bit concerned about the throttling....mostly because I would not know what to look for or how to fix it. This board is very valuable. I would have just been pissed that such an expensive computer runs like crud (if I were doing heavy gaming or video editing).

On that note...HP just raised the base price of the Envy 17-3D by $70.00. Now standard is a 750GB, 7200 RPM HDD. If you want the 1TB 5400 HDD, it is an additional $30, or an additional $30 for the two 640GB HDD's that were available yesterday (for $90). The 160 GBSSD option with a 640GB HDD is now $610.00

 

This thread is moving right along. Haven't caught up yet but....

1. The original 750gb 5400 works fine on this port

2. Plugged the SSD into my i7 860 desktop and works fine

3. Brand new Intel 320 120GB

I really believe that the bios is not allowing me to use an SSD. I remember someone saying their HP rep told them the bios will not allow a drive under 160gb but when has an HP rep every been right about stuff like that. I am beginning to think it might be true. I am going to try a plugging the SSD AND 750 in with my new caddy and see if that does the trick. If not I am screwed.

 

OK...so the throttling issue is pretty clear. Does anyone have any other brand laptop they can do the throttling test on...preferably Sandy Bridge. Joe...don't you have a SB Pavillion??? Anyone with a Dell XPS or anything...even older generation? I would like something to compare to. Not for anything...but I would like some objective comparisons. If the Envy is the only system to throttle...then there is a real issue. I think we need to determine if this is an HP thing, Envy thing or Intel thing...then whether it is a Sandy Bridge thing...

 

Well I know Apple's Macbook Pro has a peculiar throttling due to tests done by AnAnTech, who theorized it is a thermal issue causing temperatures to go too high for the processor to utilize turbo boost.

Basically MBP's scores in graphics/others were not as high as others however he theorized that Turbo Boost was not able to be used due to the high temperatures of the MBP.

It is nothing surprising in the slightest however, most of Apple's laptops have had thermal issues.

 

If I had any clue as to what I were doing.....I would test it on my SB DV7 that is going back to HP in a week or so. But it would probably take you longer to explain to me what needs to be downloaded, monitored, set-up, ect.....

 

I would be interested in other brands non Apple. My reasoning here is that if this turns out to be a Sandy Bridge issue...it makes the SATA port thing look tame! The biggest issue with any laptop is heat...I just wonder what other companies do about this. Example...Asus has twin heat pipes in the G73 and two rear exhaust vents. Not only does the G73 look like a stealth bomber...but it sounds like one. Also...big difference is that Asus uses the GTX460M chip which is Fermi. Fermi definately runs hotter than the 5800 or 6800 series AMD. The newer generation Fermi's are much cooler...my GTX580 runs way cool vs even my old GTX260 216. I just think it important to see what other laptops do during your test.

Anyone????

 

Eek! the memory test is going to take 2hrs 45mins but it's 10:45pm here haha Probably do that tomorrow when I'm at my desktop. I just wish I could get some advanced options on the BIOS to play with the power options, apparently there's a service/advanced menu for Envy 14 but the instructions didn't work on my Envy 17. I know HP are trying to safe guard regular users, but what about us techies that have been building PCs and configuring the BIOS to suit for the past 15 years? It's slightly annoying. It's like owning a house and one of the doors is locked and you don't have the key for it

 

It is really easy. Crimsoned put a thread together. Tells you what to use and what to set it to. Takes 5 minutes. Small downloads. Prime95 doesn't require install...neither does CPU-Z. Fumark does...but very small footprint. Install Furmark...then Unzip Prime and CPU-Z. Open CPU-Z first and let it monitor your system. Move the CPU-Z to the lower right part of your screen. Then start Prime...do Crimsoned's settings...and minimize while run. then run Furmark. You will be able to watch your CPU performance dance around.

 

I wish.... I have the dv7-4283CL. i5-480M
I can't believe Costco still did not get any SB units yet!!! At least the ones in South Florida...if any of you guys have a Costco with SB units I'd be curious to know which ones.

KJ

 

panthermark, your wish has been granted thanks to Crimsoned. Click link below, and it is all detailed what to download and even how to use it. +1 Crimsoned.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/575817-hp-envy-17-sb-throttling-test.html

I do hope everyone with the SB Envy or other SB will do this to help all of us and others with not just the Envy system get to the bottom of this. Thanks guys.

Edit: I see Bobmitch beat me to it.

KJ

 

Try the test anyways...What I am trying to figure out is if this issue is Sandy Bridge vs other chips...BTW...running the test again. When I run Prime95 by itself...my CPU will run at 89-90C. With all this mess going on and my CPU running mainly at 798...my cpu temps are 70C. So there is thermal protection going on. Why I am so curious about the SB chip vs any other...all processors have a thermal protection built in by Intel. This could just very well be what Intel did to the .7 2630 / 2720 / 2820 vs others. If you have an older generation machine or different like i5 that Joe has...try it. The thermal system of the processor and machine will not allow any damage...but will run at a pretty heavy load.

 

I am pretty sure that HP installs the OS on these envys from some sort of an image and I am willing to bet that anyone who ordered an SSD gets the same image as a mechanical hdd and hence win 7 is not setup properly for an SSD. This is why I want to do a fresh install in lieu of a recovery as windows 7 will detect it is being installed on an SSD and adjust its settings automatically. That is if I could get it to install.....

 

Ok. I will go to Crimson's thread and download, and run those tests.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/575817-hp-envy-17-sb-throttling-test.html

KJ

 

Test has been running 10 minutes. I can count on One hand how many times my processor has run FASTER than 798...this puppy is really throttled down and remaining there. I have to believe this is Intel. Somebody...pitch in ...The processor is staying very cool in comparison. My GPU thermals, are 84C...that runs hotter than my desktop GTX580...but I do use Afterburner to control fans on that...

If this is an Intel thing...there will be NO software to get around this issue. My GPU clocks are full blast...575 / 1800...so GPU isn't throttling. 20 mins...still running....no slowdowns...no lockups....just a slower processor. I have used snipping tool to take a screenshot...will post once on the board from the Envy. Opened and closed about four or five other programs...no problem at all.

CPU Temp 70
Memory Temp 63C
GPU Temp 84

Here is a screen capture

 

This is with you running Furmark on top of Prime95? I get the same. Doesn't do it with just Prime95 - so...why do you think it is Intel vs. something going on with the cooling on the GPU vs. just a software thing?

 

Intel builds protection circuits into all their processors. The object is that if the CPU is threatened by heat damage...they throttle back in speed...or shut down, so as not to take on damage. The odd part about this test is that the GPU, which is more prone to damage...stays normal temp. The only way to find out what is what is to test other types of CPU's...i5 or older generation i7 on any kind of machine. If the Intel protection circuits are set that low...nothing is going to change that...it would be a motherboard / chipset thing. That is why on desktops, people use water cooling, etc. You can't do that on a laptop...

 

Thank you ...I think it will answer a lot of questions

 

I know this might sound odd. Gonna switch GPU's and run in the Intel HD now...the chip is on the processor...so when it gets hot...just gonna to continue to throttle everything down...only now...I want to see if the GPU throttles too

 

Mmmm....I already did that test this morning and oddly...it didn't throttle that time.....which was why I keep pointing at the Radeon.....

 

OK...now I am totally confused...

The CPU IS NOT throttling on the Intel GPU.

CPU Temp 82
GPUTemp doesn't register..why would it, it's in the processor
Memory Temp...91C so that is pretty different...could be due to the fact that the memory controller is also in the CPU...

When using the Intel CPU...the screenshot I am about to post will show the CPU at almost full rated speed...

 

:throws hands up: ehem...that is pretty much exactly what I had as well. I'm betting many will be able to reproduce the same.

Does ANYONE out there (with this system) have Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate??

 

That's two of us thus far. I wonder if the AMD GPU draws a lot of power away from the CPU...and starves it. Just thinking off the top of my head

 

I've installed Windows 7 pro already on my 1st Envy 17 SB. Same issue. XD

 

Cool....so - I'm guessing you don't have access to that version right now to do a test for me?

 

If it does not pause when you boot off a CD or get that no bootable device it would apare to be one of two things.

1. something wrong in hardware maybe of the hard drive itself or the bios/motherboard. but this i think is very very unlikely
2. something wrong on the data on the drive somewhere. It could be something funny in the boot sector or similar causing problems for bios picking up and booting off the hard drive. And of course it could be a problem with windows itself.

One simple option to try is to push F8 many times during boot up. it should take you to the windows boot menu options. if it doesn't do the pause then and comes up with the menu to select safe mode/last known good config etc in only a few seconds then it is getting to the windows boot loader fine and the problem has to be something in booting windows. In which case reinstalling windows or recovering to factory settings should fix it. If it still pauses before this menu then its something with bios booting or the boot loader itself. You could install a 3rd party bootloader or try one from a CD or USB floppy. something like PLOP or BootUS maybe.

 

With regard to the throttling issue which seems to be caused when the AMD GPU is maxed out, has anyone tried with different versions of the AMD graphics drivers? To see if they have any affect on it? Just wondering if upgrading from stock drivers to 11.3/11.4 does anything etc.

 

No effect at all.
I was just reading the Alienware forum, and it seems they had throttling issues as well, and it seems they got a bios update from Dell that fixed it.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...cpu-throttling-fix-released-discuss-here.html

 

Apoxxx, so is there a good chance you'll stay with this crew? Meaning us Envy bunch.

KJ

 

Well there's a reason I was reading the Alienware boards in the first place. Kinda wanted to check up on the Alienware troubles.

We'll see, I'm not keeping it in it's current condition if no fix comes along atleast. I paid for a 2.3Ghz CPU with 3.4Ghz Turboboost, and I get a 800Mhz one.
My only option since my 21 days ran out yesterday (ofc), is Ebay, but that would probably lose me a couple of hundreds.

 

Another Thing that could be tried is you may be able to use GPU overclocking tools to try underclocking the GPU and test how this affects the throttling of the CPU when under full gpu load. Might give some clues as to what is the cause.

You would have to assume that if you were to do a big underclock then the GPU would produce a lot less heat and the throttling would go down on the CPU. If it doesn't then there is some stuffed up software that HP really needs to fix!

Also one thing interesting to find out is how quickly running the GPU load causes the CPU to drop to 800Mhz. If it drops straight away then it has nothing to do with temperatures and it must be some bios or driver code detecting high clock rates and trotteling cpu. but if it takes a while then it may be heat build up that triggers it.

 

It drops straight away regardless of temperatures once you fire up something that uses the HD6850. Temps can be at 60c or 90c, doesn't matter, once you start a game or something, it's straight down to 800Mhz.

 

I too am apparently having throttling issues, but my envy plays crysis fine? and I haven't had any freezing or lock ups?

 

If it's straight away then it must be some bios/driver/software/motherboard-logic that is detecting either the clockrate of the GPU and forcing the cpu down or maybe something detecting power draw or voltage or something similar. Could be something to do with the power control circutery i guess if there is a design fault or limitation here. I wonder if there is any software that can monitor the power phase control state. Motherboards have multiple power phases that convert the 12volt (maybe 19V on a laptop) down to Vcore voltage. The voltage varies depending on the clock rate and turbo boost mode its in. Also the number of phases active sometimes varies as well. If something is limiting the power to these circuts because of GPU power draw then it could force the CPU to throttle.

Also would be good to know if this is happening with all games or is it only when certain games or in game settings that cause excessive GPU load like the benchmark/burnin testing apps cause. People have reported some games seem fine. And some people have reported ocasional bouts of low frame rate. Maybe there is a load tipping point where it throttles the CPU and depening on the game it may or may not get to that point.

 

Mine runs Crysis fine too, but I can really tell when the CPU boosts up to full speed once in a while. Runs alot smoother then.
For Alienware this was a BIOS issue, so let's hope HP manage to put out a fix sooner or later.

 

Oh man...I'm really hoping a BIOS update will fix this as well. I'd hate to think of the hoops HP would go through to NOT admit it was a defect in the hardware so they wouldn't have to fix all these machines....

But..I am one of those who really and truly haven't noticed any slowness with their system during normal everyday use. If I wasn't reading this thread....I'd probably be kinda clueless there was anything going on.