*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (2XXX series) Owners Lounge*

Ok guys, killa, bob, appox, hawk, uncle. I'm a little unclear here. Some people are stating no throttling etc. Others are complaining when watching a blu-ray they get it. If it's hardware related how come all don't suffer the same way? How can one not be affected and some are? Is it luck of the draw? Do some perform the way they are supposed to. Mirre89 states he has no issues at all. Heat is not a problem and he plays for hours. What really is the deal?

 

Good find.... JR.com may also have 2070NR's witn 7200 rpm drives as well.
But I have to go through HP because of my coupon code.

I received an email last night (I guess they tried to call)....so I will talk to them today. We will see what happens...

 

Well...to make matters worse...(or better)...HP is still not making any sense.

The DV6/7 line has been updated and now offers a 1080p screen as an option....along with 2GB of GDDR5 RAM for the Radeon 6770.

But still no $25 back-lit keyboard option.

I really don't want to.....but I may have to give up the back-lit keyboard...and go with a DV6 or DV7.

 

Oh I see, well I think my hole socket thing I had one of those with a button to turn it on and off and you can plug in like 6 things in it, I think my hole socket unit or whatever is lacking power cos when I yesterday and today plugged the Envy in my other socket with 4 different it feels like the laptop starts up WAY faster, I don't know if it really does or not but it feels like it. Don't know if it has anything to do about the 6 socket thing that I have my HD box for the tv, my 42" TV and my ps3 and a lamp plugged into it already, and the TV and the box is running almost all day, might be draining all the power from that socket thing and it wasn't enough for my Envy too, I don't know might be something like that cos now it runs fine, even better? I always had my HDX16 in that 6 socket thing but that don't need as much power as the Envy, the adapter is like 4 times smaller then the one for the Envy, anyways I'm not connecting in there anymore

Correction, I'm a She, not a He But I don't have any throttling, honest to god, I thought I had yesterday as you can see some posts back but it was my socket that didn't give enough power to the laptop, plugged it into another and BOOM, the CPU worked like a charm again.

And absolutely NO heat problem, runs cool after hours of playing, of course it gets up on around 82 Celsius (at highest) at times but it doesn't feel that warm for the palm or hands or whatever, and just minimizing the game for a minute makes the temps go down remarkable, no heat problem what so ever When I play it mostly stays at around 60-70 Celsius, so it doesn't stay on 82 just for some second it might get up there, I think you get my point

82 Celsius = 179,6 Fahrenheit
60-70 Celsius = 140-158 Fahrenheit.

I love this laptop so damn much, it's so amazing!!

 

I just posted about this on the dv6/dv7-6xxx thread on whether or not I should keep my new Envy and go BACK to the dv7t QE (which I returned for the Envy).

I would be saving close to $100 and I would get a blu-ray writer, BUT I would lose:

Backlit keyboard, extra 400gb of HDD, and an extra 9 cell battery.

That, plus the dv6/dv7 is a horrible fingerprint magnet on the outside. I couldn't bare touching it and not wiping it clean immediately, as opposed to the Envy which grabs almost no fingerprints.

I guess I made up mind, and I am going to stick with the Envy

 

Sorry bout the confusion.

So if one laptop does have and some don't. Can it be a universal problem. Maybe bad parts on the comp? How can some throttle and some not? Have you tried the throttle test using prime and funmark?

 

I don't know honestly, not a pro techie No I haven't tried those but I did some tests of my own ^^ Played a lot of demanding games and checked the CPU often to see if it was working like it should and it did. I've play a lot so I think if I had throttling I would have known that by now, Had this baby for a week and a half now so, works perfect during movies too etc There was someone else in this thread that said he didn't have any throttling at all either so, I don't know what it depends on honestly, I'm just very happy mine doesn't suffer from it.

 

I'm still pretty torn.
If I could have gotten my order in on a 2070NR last week when I first called...I would not even worry about the new options on the DV6/7. But if dual 5400 rpm's are now the new standard on the 2070....that could be a deal killer. Maybe if I can get a 2070NR on an EPP discount AND with my coupon...that would save me $150 and I could use that towards an SSD to replace one of the 5400 RPM drives.

 

Which games did you try? It does not do it with many of them since it needs to stress the CPU and GPU at the same time. GTA4 works well, and I'm sure there are others. Maybe Bad Company 2? Anyone?

And Furmark and Prime are very easy to use and I suggest all try it. I'm sure they all probably have the same issue if you truly stress the Envy.

 

What program are you using to monitor? Does it log sessions or just calculate at that given moment?

 

Bad Company 2 ran perfectly fluid.

Core Temp and the Turbo boost monitor just cos I think it's fun to see the blue fill up haha ^^ I don't now if CT log it or not, but it works perfectly fine for me, games, movies everything so I'm just glad about that, I consider it as no throttling.

 

Well mine is scheduled to be here Friday. I really hope I have good luck with it... I will run prime and fun and give all the results.

 

Medal of Honor, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat and an older game called "The Saboteur" all run fine on mine. Gets really warm...and the other day, while playing MOH...hit alt-tab and the processor was running at about 2.8 GHZ (had Hwinfo32 running in the background). No pausing or glitching while viewing movies in 3D either...Pretty smooth!

 

I wanted to share this SSD optimization guide with everyone. I agree with pretty much everything EXCEPT no. 6. I didn't disable my pagefile, I moved mine to the D: drive (7200 rpm HDD). I give Win7 whatever room it needs on the secondary drive...which is still pretty fast...as the article says...disabling pagefile doesn't effect speed...just gives you space back on SSD. If you have some demanding apps...move it to D: as well...if you have a D:

The SSD Optimization Guide | The SSD Review

 

I keep my thumbs crossed for you! I hope you get as lucky as I was with mine, I don't have any cosmetic flaws either

Sweet You've never encounter anything that could be throttling either ? Then it is possible that only some are affected.

What are your temps after a while of playing?

 

Please don't misunderstand me. If I run Prime and furmark...I can make my machine throttle. Under most of the circumstances that I run my machine...I don't see it happen. Prime and furmark are synthetic bechmark tools and push the machines pretty hard. I do think that any machine with this generation i7 processor is gonna see it...but ask yourself how many times you might push the machine that hard...

I would still like to see ALL the companies like HP, Dell and Asus do some kind of bios upgrade to address the fix. My suspicion is that the computer makers are going to say that this is a protection mechanism to keep our machines from having thermal meltdowns...Is it accurate...no...but I think that all of the companies are playing CYA! What percentage of the time will your machine throttle...guess that depends on the programs you use and how much they utilize the CPU and GPU at the same time. I might tend to think that games written to take advantage of multiple core CPU and advanced graphics might cause some slowdowns. The programs I run and games I have installed...don't as yet. I would have expected that running games in the TriDef 3D mode might push it...but so far, I have no evidence of that.

Temps while playing MOH hit 77C on GPU, while CPU was about 75C from what I recall. Coolsense had my fans on full blast! I will have to keep better notes on temps...my machine was warmer than usual...but not as hot as people with the first generation Envy say they experienced. The original Envy 17 line supposedly got so hot that it would almost burn your hand. The new generation that we have are cats in comparison

 

Okay I see, well then I summarize by saying, as long as I don't suffer from throttling I'm not gonna complain and even say I have it, I can run all the stuff I want super smooth so there's really nothing to even complain about For those who can't for example play any games, see movies etc that is a worse case, I wouldn't accept that honestly, cos what's the use of a powerful laptop or PC if you can't use the power of it.

 

The multiplier in these CPUs can change so rapidly that doing an ALT+TAB during the middle of a game to see what's going on is pointless. That won't show you anything.

It makes a lot more sense to run a Log File while gaming using a program like RealTemp.

RealTemp 3.67
http://www.mediafire.com/?n99nq4kn95u6i6a

Open up the Settings window and check the Log File option and set the logging interval beside it to 1 second. Go play a game and when you're done you will have a record of the speed and core temperature your CPU was running at. Look for RealTempLog.txt in the RealTemp folder.

This program closely follows the Intel recommended monitoring method for Core i CPUs as outlined in their November 2008 Turbo White Paper. This method uses two high performance timers within the CPU for each thread so can minutely detect any sign of throttling. For a variety of reasons, many other monitoring programs do not follow this method and can not possibly give you a clear understanding of what speed your CPU is really running at.

During a game your CPU should not be dropping below its default rated speed. You can head to the Intel site and look up your CPU if you're not sure what that speed is.

ARK | Your source for information on Intel® products

During the Dell throttling era, this was common. No two laptops are identical. CPU power consumption can vary and different games are going to work the CPU and GPU differently. All power adapters are not created equally either so this problem might be related to some power adapters that are not quite up to the job and are more likely to trigger throttling when they try to put out too much power. Room temperature can also play a part in whose laptop throttles and whose laptop doesn't. It sounds like this laptop is running on the edge of throttling so depending on what apps you run, it might not be a problem at all. More testing needs to be done.

 

I will grab a copy of RealTemp...thanks!

 

might be getting a sick deal on a xps 17 3d sb.... my envy comes in friday... might return back to hp unless someone wants??? will know more info tomorrow...

 

Excellent post!!! Thanks. I will def. do this once my Envy gets here after all the clean up and installs.

KJ

 

I have Real Temp installed I use it a lot, didn't know it could log tho but I'll do that right away and get back with some results.

 

Last update regarding my order:

After a couple of months now and about 22 calls to HP, I finally got a computer and they finally honored most of the credits they had promised to me. The last credit I didn't get is a really small one that someone offered early on and they couldn't find any record of it. I also hadn't started taking notes yet, so I couldn't say who offered the credit.

But everything else has finally come through and while I'm still a little bitter about the whole experience, I will be keeping the computer.

So now it's time to actually open up the box and see whether it turns on or not

 

Played MOH for about 10 minutes...man CPU speeds all over the road. Here is the file....there is throttling, and normal and turbo...wow...No rhyme or reason for why it throttles when it does...temps look good...very odd...

 

Hmmm, it starts off pretty nice, but later you have a segment of 798, and then jumps up, then again down. I wonder if you don't mind running this test again with throttlestop on while you play MOH and compare the results of RealTemp...just wondering....

KJ

 

Yup pretty much. Your word pad looks pretty much as mine did.

BTW you guys, I shipped my envy out today to my buyer. I am officially out of the Envy club, I will still come here frequently.

 

Code:

  DATE     TIME     MHz   C0 C1 C2 C3 LOAD%
05/18/11 12:49:16  798.22 65 65 63 66  45.1
05/18/11 12:49:17  798.22 65 64 62 65  43.2
05/18/11 12:49:18  798.22 64 64 62 65  41.3
05/18/11 12:49:19  798.22 64 63 62 65  41.4
05/18/11 12:49:20  798.22 64 63 62 66  40.1
05/18/11 12:49:21  798.22 64 64 62 65  41.0

Your log file clearly shows the problem this laptop is having. Your CPU core temperatures are all in the mid 60C range during this part of the log file and there is a significant load on the CPU yet it is throttling down to only 798 MHz. A properly running Core i CPU does not drop down to 798 MHz while gaming or with that sort of load on it.

That's a problem that HP needs to fix or to warn users about. This throttling is not CPU temperature related so it could be due to an inadequate power adapter. Dell had that problem and had to do an adapter recall on the XPS 1645 when it first came out.

I've heard that running ThrottleStop can prevent this throttling. If you're curious run it and go play the same game and then post another RealTemp log file to see if there is any difference. Run ThrottleStop and put a check mark in the Set Multiplier box and set that to Turbo and click on the Turn On button so ThrottleStop can do its thing. Your core temperatures will probably go up but as long as they stay under 100C, your CPU will still be running within the Intel thermal design spec.

 

Did you notice/suffer from it in the game?

 

dude -- all the best and many thanks for your generous contributions here. I for one would like to know how your next chapter turns out

 

No slowdowns in the game at all....and I am running TriDef 3D version as well...so making the GPU double hard, totally smooth. Again...game totally smooth in spite of throttling. Guess it depends on how demanding the app / game is and whether or not you will feel it. Here is the log with Throttlestop running...low before I hit Turn On and speed dropped when I turned Throttlestop off...but the middle tells the tale. Temps still decent as well.

Uncleweb...you posted how you can set an alarm for temp and have Throttlestop throttle down the CPU in case of thermal issues...can you elaborate???

 

Amazing....You can tell easily when Throttlestop was active simply by taking note of your constant speeds around 2.6 to 2.8...... Question is...what are we all going to to about it?

KJ

 

That second log shows how your CPU is supposed to run. No more constant drop outs down to 800 MHz.

800 MHz / 2600 MHz = 30%

HP thinks it is OK to ship a laptop that runs the CPU at 30% of its designed speed when gaming. Thanks HP.

If you can't use 70% of the CPU you paid for then maybe ask them to refund you 70% of your money.

 

unclewebb, I wonder if most of us to logs with and without Throttlestop and send those to HP if they will bother with them at all. Perhaps if we send them to a few of the "insiders" some of us have here, maybe they will be able to deliver this info to the higher ups that can actually make a change at HP.

KJ

 

Joe...my guy inside never acknowledged when I sent him Crimsoned's thread on Throttling issue. Even Crimsoned's source has stopped responding. I wonder if HP is thinking "Out of site, out of mind" on this. Perhaps they think we will all just go away.

Uncleweb...question...On my desktop, my i7 950 had a speedstep minimum rated speed...as does my 2630. I disabled Speedstep in my bios and now there is NO minimum speed...just rated 3.07 and turbo to 3.5. Unfortunately, the day I got my Envy, I flashed my bios to f.08...so I don't even know if there was an "advanced" section to the bios. I wonder of shutting down Speedstep would help with this issue. However, as proven when I shut it off in my old Dell Inspiron E1505 and ran the CPU at 2.0 GHZ all the time...my battery time suffered...I didn't care...

 

Seems that all sources have dried up...Anyone see HPNate lately? He hasn't been in this thread in a very very long time, if ever.

 

uncleweb...

I get what you are saying. I think we have to figure out a way to get the message across to someone and be heard. Until that time, your Throttlestop program is NOT a bad app to use. In my second log...my system temps were very good, considering....I think your app can be exceptionally useful to all of us. If we call tech support...we get a bunch of people that read from cue cards to ask questions about issues. My question is where to even begin finding a proactive person at HP with clout!

 

The 20C higher core temperatures in the second log file clearly proves that a lot more of the CPU is being used when it is not throttling.

Will HP do anything about this? That's hard to say. Someone might have decided that the typical HP customer would rather have a 70C laptop running at 800 MHz than a 90C laptop running at full speed.

These big companies tend to ignore data gathered by third party apps. They use their own in house test methods which of course is a joke if it results in them shipping out a high end laptop with such an easy to diagnose problem.

Bobmitch: To set a ThrottleStop Alarm, first create a second profile in ThrottleStop and then click on Disable Turbo. This will slow down your CPU somewhat without dropping it all the way down to 800 MHz.

Open up the Options window, click on Alarm and set an Alarm DTS temperature of 10 which is 10 degrees away from the Intel built in thermal throttling point so your CPU will switch to the second profile and disable turbo boost when it gets up to about 90C. Put the number 2 in the Use Profile box and click on OK and you're done.

The Intel throttling point is 100C and throttling a CPU at the hardware level is the best way to do this. Using ThrottleStop to throttle your CPU works but I just want to let you know that these CPUs do a great job of looking after themselves.

 

So they think. Sure, many will just be happy and not bother HP again thinking, oh well..... but that is ok, because it only takes one "thorn" to be embedded into HP's "foot" and they will say ouch/take notice. Believe you me, some of us are not going quietly out the door...no. Sure, I'm a pleasant, easy going person....but I will not tolerate being lied to when it comes to my money, no sir thanks.

Anyway, after your test, I'm almost 100% certain to see these kind of results on my Envy. As soon as I document these numbers, I'll try my best to construct a logical, cool speech to give HP.

KJ

 

It took months and several NBR threads had to grow to 500+ pages before Dell started taking throttling seriously. It's much easier for companies to bury their heads in the sand and ignore that this problem exists. All you can do is ship your laptop back, run ThrottleStop or be happy with constant throttling down to 798 MHz when gaming.

At Dell users were able to send emails directly to the michael dell email address. Dell took these complaints more seriously and they were quickly escalated. Anyone you phone is not going to understand this problem.

SpeedStep should be enabled for the proper functioning of Turbo Boost.

ThrottleStop is extremely efficient. Start it and immediately minimize it to your system tray. After it has been running for a few hours, open up the Task Manager and you will see that it barely uses any memory or CPU resources. You will never notice it except your CPU will be running over 3 times faster. You might notice that.

 

Uncleweb...the biggest complaint about the first generation i7's in laptops was HEAT...Especially with the Envy 17. People who have the 720/740/840 all stated that the machines got so hot that you could actually burn yourself by touching the left side of the keyboard. Perhaps this is HP's response.

That still doesn't explain conversations I had with Asus G73SW owners who also see the throttling. If you have ever seen the G73SW...it has separate heatsinks for the processor and two exhaust fans on it...yet the processors in those machines show throttling. Some Dell owners have also reported it in the XPS series. At first I thought ATI / AMD messing with Intel...but in the Dell and Asus...they use Nvidia GPU...except for certain G73's which come with the ATI 6870m.

Your assessment may be "on the dime"

 

I'm gonna try this throttle stop and see if I can see some changes too, saw some low reading in the log just now, I didn't notice anything in the game but still, I'll also try this one, I'm gonna try it on GTA IV I think cos that's really demanding I've heard

EDIT, There was no harm to this? I mean using ThrottleStop? Except that it gets hotter but I check temps regularly so if it gets to high I'll stop it.

 

Run with TriDef in 3D, too...that will force your GPU to work double hard cranking out frames per second...

With that said...my temps using Throttlestop didn't even near Hot. I am pretty encouraged that I can use Throttlestop when needed...and not worry too much...

 

That's a relief, cos if it works with ThrottleStop and doesn't set my laptop on fire I'm gonna use it when I play games, if they're demanding or not, like why not if there's no harm

 

The initial ThrottleStop warning message is aimed at users like scook9 that got 4333 MHz out of his QX9300 with his laptop sitting in a freezer with a bag of frozen peas on it.

scook9 - Core 2 QX9300 (2.53Ghz) @ 4333MHz - 4333 mhz CPU-Z - hwbot.org

That message is also for Core i7 920XM/940XM Extreme owners that use ThrottleStop to increase the TDP / TDC to more than double its original setting as well as crank the multiplier up to the moon.

ThrottleStop does not disable the built in Intel throttling mechanism.

The CPU will be fine but I have no inside information why HP is throttling this laptop. If they are doing this to protect some substandard component like something on the motherboard or an inadequate power supply then something could fail. If running your laptop at its default speed that you paid for is a problem then I'd suggest sending it back to the manufacturer.

 

MiRRe89, I am in the same thought as you, Bobmitch, and many others. I plan on using Throttlestop (thanks again unclewebb) when playing intensive GPU/CPU games and other applications. Regardless, I still feel it falls on everyone of us to let HP know what is happening. Worst case scenario, they will not fix/recall any of our current Envy laptops. Possibly for the Ivy Bridge I'd hope they would address this very issue.

If they still have not fixed this with next years Ivy Bridge, it really will, at least in my mind, give HP a little black eye to their reputation.

KJ

 

OK...here you go...someone has to light the fuse!!!!!

HP - United States | HP Executive Team

Every email address of every HP executive on record...I think that Todd Bradley is the guy we want

Good way to use my post #900

 

I do wonder if I should be worried, I mean I don't wanna use something that's gonna end up destroying my laptop slowly I'm gonna do a test with throttle stop soon to see the temps, get back after that

I totally agree with you, I am a little mad at spending so much money for a laptop that doesn't really function properly ( guess we can say it doesn't right? ) Everything else works like a charm so it's a pitty this happens. BUT if throttlestop works without stressing the temps to bad I'm not gonna be as mad, but still a little mad at HP for letting this slide, anyways Envy is an amazing laptop and I love it

 

Awesome! I think those that already documented your throttle results with and without Throttlestop may want to proceed with writing Todd Bradley a little email.

Bobmitch, oh the fuse will be lit, as I'm on a steady flame already, lol. I feel good knowing that someone will benefit from all these questions and testing and pushing HP...

KJ

 

Yeah that's the way mine is acting too. I guess the way the i7-2820QM is supposed to act is to run at a steady 2.3Ghz, with the occassional turboboost to higher frequencies when less cores are used, or temperatures allow for it.

The way it's working now is FAR from how it's supposed to be.

 

Send him the Throttle Issue thread, the Throttle fix thread and perhaps this thread starting with post XXX, when the throttle issue first became prevalent or at least today's where people are testing even more.