*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (2XXX series) Owners Lounge*

Hmm, has anyone tried using the QuickLaunch Buttons software from the business laptops? I'd be curious to see whether that'd work.

 

haha, so I opened my laptop and most things look good.

Considering the fact that it's hand made, there aren't any gaps big enough to bother me (you would have to get very close to see any gap variances).

There is a little waviness in the metal between the bottom of the screen and the keyboard. I can't see it with my eye though, I can only feel it with my hand. I'll loosed the screws in the battery compartment to see if that helps (as someone suggested)

It's really gorgeous and I'm happy I fought it out with HP and kept it.

No dead pixels, and the screen really is amazing. With the screen on 1/2 brightness, it's as bright as my HDX18t at full brightness. At night (and even during the day), it's bright enough to make my eyes uncomfortable, but it's nice to have the brightness when I want/need it.

Much cooler than HDX18t.

No issues with keyboard waviness. The left side stuck up a tiny (but noticeable amount), so I just pushed gently on it and it popped down into place and is 100% flush all around.

The mouse pad isn't bad at all (once I turned tapping off, which I can't stand). I actually kind of like it. The scrolling takes a little getting used to since you have to have a little space between the 2 fingers you use to scroll with.

Only issue: While burning my disk image CD's last night I got a BSOD during the 3rd disk and the computer restarted. So I'm trying to burn them again now and am anxiously waiting to see how it goes. Just starting the 3rd disk again so we'll see what happens.

Overall, I'm very very satisfied and very excited about this laptop. I fully recommend it to anyone at this point (disclaimer: I haven't tried any throttling tests or even used the laptop much yet, but I think for my purposes it will be a great purchase that I will enjoy for years to come, especially at the price paid).

 

Marcus...

Enjoy! Wait until you start using the 3D, you are really going to see what this puppy can do. Make sure the scrrews for the keyboard are snug, not tight...all good!!!

 

+1, cant understand it passed their QC! The only thing I can explain is they have bad management over there that pushes people to work as fast as they can, which resulting in poor craftsmanship and skilled people to leave.

I have sent two of them back, waiting for my 3rd one to come for cosmetic issue. I have doubt they have people with sufficient experience/training or a "SKILLED" personnel in building these laptops. Its HP high end laptop built with low end skills...very sad story. Might be going to return that one as well and wait until the Ivy Bridge came out.

The craftsmanship was down A LOT! My E14 is cosmetically almost perfect..what's wrong with you HP!

How do you guys test "Throttle" issue? I like to avoid installing prime,etc. then do the monitoring myself. Any quick way?

 

I ran Real Temp and in settings check log and make it 1 second, then run a game or something that takes a lot of CPU and then check your log, and you'll see if it has dropped down to under 1GHz, around 987 or something like that, then there's throttling.

 

It usually cycles the multiplier down to the minimum which is 8 so 798 MHz is a common number to look for in the log file and is evidence of throttling when you are trying to game.

RealTemp 3.67
http://www.mediafire.com/?jibd769x6z7n0c8

 

Thanks! I'll run the Realtemp from the link above once I get my 3rd replacement.

 

Oh yea I forgot what numbers it was, thanks!

 

The craftsmanship was down A LOT! My E14 is cosmetically almost perfect..what's wrong with you HP!

If you recall there was about a two to three week period when everyone was complaining about late notices, etc. HP was short on supplies and was not building as quickly as orders came in. Once they parts arrived...they pushed to catch up. Now what normally happens when you try to get three weeks of work done in a week...nothing good...that's for sure. In the beginning...they were sending out some decent machines. Some people received pristine systems, while others didn't. Guess the only thing you can do is HOPE until your system arrives.

As far as the throttling issue. It has to be something in the bios that makes the machine throttle to the 8 x 100 under load. This issue seems to effect all HP and Asus machines...yes...Asus G73SW owners are getting throttling too! Dell, depending on model, may or may not. Alienware has been fixed. Not sure about XPS. I believe that it is either an Intel recommendation for thermal protection or the companies are just so afraid of issues that they became conservative and created the throttling...

 

Gosh I love your knowledge! But if they were able to fix it on Ailenware, at least I am hopeful they can fix it for us as well They just need to get to it!

 

I just sent a report to the BBB regarding the throttling issue, hopefully this will get HP's attention.

Issue/Test:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/575817-hp-envy-17-sb-throttling-test.html


Temporary Fix:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/577420-envy-17-3d-sb-throttling-fix.html

 

If you under design the power delivery circuit on a motherboard, you can use temperature or power consumption information from that to prematurely trigger CPU throttling. Manufacturers might play dumb but this is not rocket science.

I was just helping an Asrock desktop owner and his CPU only gets up to the low 60C range when throttling gets triggered. Here's how his log file looks.

Code:

  DATE     TIME     MHz   C0 C1 C2 C3 LOAD%
05/20/11 23:33:33 3392.40 63 63 62 63 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:34 3392.39 63 64 62 63 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:35 3392.39 63 64 62 63 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:36 3392.39 63 64 62 63 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:37 3392.39 63 63 62 63 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:38 3392.39 63 64 62 64 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:39 2743.85 56 54 54 54 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:40 1596.42 53 51 50 52 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:41 1596.42 52 50 48 50 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:42 1596.42 53 49 47 50 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:43 3392.39 61 62 61 61 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:44 3392.39 62 63 62 63 100.0
05/20/11 23:33:45 3392.39 63 63 62 63 100.0

The minimum multiplier on the desktop CPUs is 16 so it drops down to that and throttles for 4 or 5 seconds, the core temperature decreases and then it is allowed to go back up to full speed again. While running Prime95 it continuously cycles like this just like the HP Envy 17 does. These CPUs are rated to run reliably up to 100C so it is insane to throttle them at 63C unless you are trying to protect an under designed cooling solution or component on the motherboard.

A lot of users had to call Dell on this issue before they changed and it will take the same sort of user anger before other manufacturers decide to change the way they do business.

Crimsoned: The BBB is a good first step to draw attention to this issue.

 

So they know about it, but still ship it this way? If they knew about it, wouldn't it be way easier to just fix it instead of risking unhappy customers, lawsuits and huge returns?

Anyway, I'm glad people are being loud about this. I wish I had the patience to keep my Envy and stay around until HP took care of the problem, but I don't.

 

No because most people just flat out don't know jack about computers. They will likely never know that their computer is throttling when it shouldn't.

 

So true, I wouldn't have a clue if I didn't find this awesome forum, I'm glad I got to know about it actually, so I can both use the temporary fix but also not wondering when I get lag in games what the hell is happening.

 

IDK, I'm a little bumed out right now... I felt the dejavu, and it came true again.... HP missed my shipping date once more.... 5/20 came and went.... I feel like demanding more for this delay, and my patience, I have no idea where I get it, I know most of you guys would have been bonkers by now. Ugh, still.... Let's see what Monday brings....

KJ

 

MiRRe89, call me a little cheezy, but I'm really glad you and others are learning and enjoying your Envy. It is a wonderful piece of tech to be sure. A few tweaks and its amazing.... Just please HP, send mine already...

KJ

 

I'm very glad too And i couldn't have learned all this without you guys, you're awesome ♥

 

Ha mine came in Thursday, sent back out Friday!!!

 

Which makes it even worse, profiting on others ignorance.

 

If you go to the HP website and put in your order number....what is the status? In production???

 

True, I really hope that us showing that a lot of people are aware of it makes them fix it, I think it sucks they're letting this slide, it is a big issue since it's stated as a gaming laptop on many sites, but if you can't play games cos of throttling, it's no longer a gaming laptop in my eyes. So for those who buys it only for hardcore gaming... Sure many games could work but there will be occasional lag because of Throttling..

 

It's odd...but the throttling issue is rearing it's ugly little head in the Asus G73SW boards more and more. I wonder if the 800 MHZ is some Intel spec that everyone takes seriously. I am posting from my desktop right now, but will update this post with a photo from the Envy. When you look at the CPU specs in HWinfo32...the 800 MHZ is there as a spec on the processor. More in a minute. Alienware fixed it...but remember that the primary function of an Alienware notebook is gaming. The Envy is built with a balance. It is not a pure gaming laptop...it is multimedia, I would think medium gaming and business. It is built to be light, thin and a direct competitor to the Mac Book. Early in the Sandy Bridge game...I tried the Asus G73SW. They weigh about 13 pounds. The Envy is about 8. Lighter, thinner and not as good head dissipation, due to one heatsink and two heatpipes, and one exhaust. The Asus and Alienware both have dual exhaust.
Can it be fixed...YES! The question is will it be fixed or will HP come up with a story about heat, safety and such to cover it

Here...check the CPU LFM 8x

 

Yea I get what your saying but as we've all said, it shouldn't be there and it's still a shame gaming laptop or not. I really hope HP will take this seriously since some here have made great work letting them know about the issue. And for all of us posting that there sure is a problem on (all?) Machines.

But about the heat, If I see it this was, when I use ThrottleStop and the CPU is steady on let's say 2,5 something like that, the heat isn't that much higher then without TS running, can it really be a question about heat, I mean TS stops the throttling and the temps aren't so much higher then when throttling is present, I hope you get what I'm saying

 

Yeap, and a little bit of me is worried now that HP took away the SSD/HDD combo...they better not mess with me that way.... or ..... Although I had that order in for about a month so they should honor it, or give me a higher spec SSD, I can't imagine downgrading...and in the unlikely event I have no choice, I might as well ask for a free Envy! Hahah...(how is it I'm still laughing?)

KJ

 

Bobmitch On your picture it said Min 800MHz, did you mean that it was normal to drop down then? I hate that I don't understand all at times "/

 

I get what you are saying...didn't they notify you about the DDR3 1600 in advance? I would imagine that if they were going to pull a stunt like pulling the SSD...that they would have notified you. Someone brought up a post earlier in the thread...I wonder if they are just going to put a larger SSD in the future Envys. Since the SSD in Pavillion is 250 GB...why not Envy? I think you will get the SSD...I get exhausted watching you wait so patiently...it's wearing me out!!! You don't deserve this!

 

I think that 800 is supposed to be the minimum CPU speed on battery. All Intel CPU's have speedstep. It was designed to save battery. Example...my old Inspiron E1505 had speedstep. The CPU was 2.0 GHZ, but on battery it was either 800 MHZ or 1.0 GHZ...I don't remember exactly and I don't have the machine any longer. If someone is on battery right now (I am back on desktop)...run HWinfo32 and what is your CPU speed?

 

Oh thanks for clearing another thing up for me!!! But since we aren't on battery while playing and testing, it shouldn't drop right? I'm starting to get this more and more thanks to you guys!

 

Yeah, I think you are getting it, and so am I. Great info and thread, as well as the majority of NBR.

KJ

 

In theory it shouldn't. Example...

In my desktop, I have an EVGA GTX580 SC video card. The core clock is 800, the Shader clock is 1600 and the memory is 2000MHZ. When the video card is in 2D mode...it runs 200 core, 400 shader and 1200 MHZ for memory. Once it cranks up in 3D...it is at the default settings...and the only thing that changes as the temperatures rise is the fan speed to cool it down. Normal fan speed is around 40% with ambient temps of 40-50C. Once temps rise to about 65C...the fan speed cranks up to 60% and by the time the temps approach 85C...fans are 70%. The idea is to keep the power up and let the fans cool it down to avoid thermal problems.

Added aside: In reality...Nvidia releases bios that control the fan speeds. Most of us find their settings inadequate, so we run programs provided by MSI (Afterburner) or EVGA (Precision). These programs give is much more control over fans and let us ramp them up even faster at lower temps. Like uncleweb, the author's name is "Unwinder" Nvidia has acknowledged his work and MSI and EVGA have rewarded him with contracts, where is paid to keep the program up to date and more. Hell...MSI even added an extra applet to theirs, where you can raise the minimum voltage of the video card to force higher overclocks...and MSI, EVGA and Asus all keep full warranties on the cards even if you use the programs. I look at Throttlestop as a CPU version of Afterburner or Precision. It gives you control. What matters here is HOW you use it. If you choose to abuse...you can do damage, as with any program. Used properly...it can be a very useful tool. Too bad computer companies don't give uncleweb a contract...

In our computers...coolsense actually kicks in at a certain temperature threshold. Unfortunately, I don't have any data to say what the top fans speed is on our system exhaust...it gets somewhat loud when running full tilt. Not obnoxious or anything...but when plugged in...the CPU isn't running on power limited by a battery...so NO it shouldn't throttle down, unless told to do so. That is why I believe Intel makes recommendations and certain companies live by those recommendations. HP is very conservative. Dell is somewhat conservative. What shocks me is that Asus was the motherboard company that wrote the rule on overclocking and pushing systems to their limits...YET...they throttle their laptops just as much as HP does...odd indeed!

 

I see, but a guy in the I think it was the throttle fix thread or the throttle test thread that when he did something with coolsense I don't know if it stopped or what it was but could coolsense have anything to do with it?

 

Okay you guys this will likely be the last thread I make regarding the Envy 17 Sandy Bridge:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-...vy-17-sandy-bridge-awaiting-hps-fix-read.html

This thread is regarding the throttling and the HP Fix (once implemented) as well as the consequences of such a fix.

 

There is only one way to know. One would have to do a clean install, using a non HP version of Windows 7. Then...install chipset drivers, etc...all, except NO HP software.

Here is a list of compatible software. The only other questionable one for me would be the Intel Turbo boost technology driver. Without it, your CPU should run at rated speed. Is this a possible cause? I would test before and after installing it.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-...xxx-dv7-5xxx-dv7-6xxx-envy-17-2xxx-intel.html

More drivers can be found here:

Software & Driver Downloads HP ENVY 17t-2000 CTO 3D Edition Notebook PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

These are the drivers for the Custom to Order Envy 17 3D. The last four digits of your model and any letters after that tell you what model to look for. MiRRed89 for example has a 2090eo or the like, where eo is european.

Most drivers are the same...any where you download them from...unless in a foreign language

Do NOT install HP software framework...this contains Coolsense. For the time being...just install Intel chipset drivers...Video card drivers, sound and all that. Update Direct X to June 2010, minimum. Get all your hardware working and see if the theory plays out. I believe Fiver5 did a clean install. Fiver...did you install HP software framework? Intel Turbo boost drivers?

 

Bobmitch, I'll try it out when I get my SSD in next week and do a clean install, if peeps can wait that long.

 

I did not know there were drivers for Intel Turbo boost. I did install the HP Software Framework. I installed almost everything from the HP driver site.

I'm convinced that the throttling is a function of something at the BIOS level and is outside of coolsense. I'm also convinced that coolsense is nothing special whatsoever and just a marketing buzzword that HP gave to standard ACPI functions already provided by the Win7 kernel. In fact if you experiment with different coolsense settings and look in your event log in the Thermal-Operational section you can see the passive cooling taking place when in "coolest" or "quietest". My belief is that when you change coolsense settings all that is happening is that different ACPI thresholds are set - probably in the registry somewhere.

I can't prove any of this, and I stopped investigating because honestly I don't care. I set coolsense to "performance," configured ThrottleStop to set multiplier to Turbo and disable Turbo at 95C, then I stopped thinking about it entirely. I can't think of any system I've owned that I didn't have to futz with one way or another to get working just the way I wanted, this is no different in my mind.

 

Nor can I. Point well made

 

I did a clean install and only put in the essential drivers, no HP framework. I still "suffer" from throttling.

 

Pretty much confirms that it is a bios issue. Have you tried Throttlestop?

 

All this issue might be caused by some policy change within the company..they shouldn't fired Mark Hurd...I think the direction where Apotheker bring HP is whack.

 

I wanted to weigh in because I have seen commenrs about all of the members with problems. Boards are places to discuss negative issues so it may seem to some that the Envy is plagued with defects. I have had no problems and love the Envy. I have no issues (at least none that a user less intense than many of you) would be affected by...just wanted to comment.

 

That's great to hear The only problem I have myself is the throttling but it really seems all machines are affected by that either it's noticed or not depending on what it's used for, since I didn't know I had it until I checked the log.

The Envy is a great laptop, best I've had and I totally love it But I can agree, before I had mine in my hands I read about many having trouble here and I got a little scared but hey, this laptop rocks

Are you as me free from any cosmetic issues? That seems more common than issues with the laptop itself so to say.

 

Please understand...the throttling thing came up during my 21 day return window...and I didn't. That speaks volumes about how I feel about my Envy. The only issue I had with my machine was that the keyboard was probably over tightened during it's making...and caused some cosmetic wharps in the keyboard. A tech came to the house (I have the four year at home)...and replaced it and the machine is perfect! The screen is exquisite and the machine is a delight to work on. Dollar for dollar, there isn't a machine around with the features for the price. Thanks to unclewebb, we have the ability to make temporary mods and kick this thing in the backside and get the performance we want.

 

I'm trying to get the hard drive cover off to install my SSD. I looked in the manual and saw that the front (closest to the mouse) side should come off and then the rear clips just slid out.

I can NOT get it! The from is stuck right in the middle where the rubber foot is and it even just cracked a little when I tried to give it a little more force.

Help!?

 

I know I know I love it so much I didn't return it cos of the throttling either, I had the thoughts about doing it but I figured I can never get a laptop like this, I love it

 

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02772484.pdf

Starts on page 39

Remove the screws and gently lift the door...

 

Yep, that's what I already looked at. My cover will not gently come off. In fact I started to wonder if there was an extra screw under the rubber foot in the middle of the front, so I took the foot off to see, but of course nothing there.

Something is definitely grabbing in the front right around the middle rubber foot. The screws are loose and I've already popped off some of the rear snaps, but that one in the front/middle just won't let go and it just cracked my cover when I tried to pry it a little.

 

There are no hidden screws. The plastic clips hold it in TIGHT. You will feel like you are breaking it. In fact you might or I guess it sounds like you already did.

I started from the ends and worked toward the middle to get it pulled up.

 

On page 38 it also says to remove the memory compartment cover as well...see what happens when you do...

 

Thanks, that's just what I've been trying, working my way from the ends to the center. And I tried to spread the pressure out by prying from both sides and slowly creeping toward the center. But it definitely cracked at the foot and now I'm stuck. I can't get the back feet/hooks back in place, and the front still won't come out and is cracking.

frustrating.