*HP ENVY 17 & 17 3D (3XXX series) Owners Lounge*

My two 500GB Toshiba 5400 rpm drives in my DV7 are much slower than the 7200 rpm WD 750GB drive i had in my Envy 17 (before i went to the dark side end returned my Envy for a gaming desktop ). I don't know what SSD options you have in the US but SSD is the fastest storage option available so try to get as big SSD as you can afford and a big mechanical storage drive, 7200 rpm if possible but if you need to maximize storage space then the 5400 is OK.

 

I'd just use the 64GB SSD for OS and a few apps/games, and order a 750GB 7200RPM HDD with the machine, or order a 128GB SSD + 750GB HDD.

In this day and age, RAID HDDs is a waste of a slot you could have an ultra-fast SSD sitting in instead.

 

Anyone using the HP USB Media Port Replicator? When it's plugged in the bootup process takes about 5 minutes and then once logged into windows it will freeze within the first minute or so. The freeze doesn't' always happen but it has occurred about 5 times now in 3 days. The slow bootup with the port replicator happens on every boot.

The devices connected to the port replicator are an Scansnap scanner and an external usb drive.

Any thoughts?

 

I would be in simple agreement with these answers if I only had the two standard hard drive slots... it'd be an SSD plus a data drive. However, as we also have the option of an mSATA SSD in addition to two data drives, the field of options opens back up. As for their selection, reviews would indicate that the Samsung 128GB mSATA SSD is as good as mSATA can get... it's numbers are certainly much better than the standard Crucial 64GB SSD that I already have. Do you guys already realize these things and recommend a standard SSD + one HDD nonetheless? Or does that shed new light on things? And if I decided to get the 128GB option, I wonder how disadvantaged I'd be by having the two 5400 drives for data that the 128GB option necessarily comes with. If I just ordered the 2x750GB 7200 option with the intent of buying my own mSATA drive, I couldn't get that Samsung because it's only sold to OEMs right now... kind of a catch 22 on what I *think* would be the ideal solution... which brings me back around to asking for advice again.

 

I had two 64gb SSD in raid on my desktop.I was hoping to reuse them with the envy 17 in raid but turns out there is no support. Ended up selling them and buying a 120 gb SSD .

I ordered since the 17th and have yet to receive a ship date.

 

So I couldn't get the trackpad functional again, and ended up exchanging with HP. Now I have a ship date of 2/9, whereas brand new orders are both cheaper and have a ship date of 1/18. Customer service has been no help at all as they claim they can't match the price, and keep going back and forth as to whether 2/9 is accurate or not. They even went so far as to suggest I place a new order and then return the exchange that's in process.

I'm really starting to regret purchasing HP.

 

Tell them you want to cancel the exchange, then just return the laptop, get your money back, and reorder.. That's about your only option to get a cheaper price. Hopefully they'll have another 30% coupon around when you get your refund (with dell it took ~3 days after they received the laptop for it to show up).. Good luck

 

So here's the thing. HP "support" basically told me two things. First that the replacement would ship on the estimated 2/9 date, and then second they stated it'd be shipped "as soon as we receive the return". The speed of getting the replacement is more important to me than the $40 or so.

When I asked them to clarify if it would be shipped around 2/9 or immediately upon receipt of the return, they simply replied "yes" and wouldn't really clarify any further. It also led to this wonderful bit of grammar (I was using chat with them): "Once you will be able to receive your returned item we can shipped out the item right away."

It's been a very frustrating experience. If I cancel the exchange I might just not bother with them.

 

I used to try that with my mom, when she wouldn't like the truth.

 

has anyone posted pics of the display on this yet? how does it compare to other laptops?

 

It's probably not going to take that long to build and ship. I dropped my Envy 15 off at fedex for an exchange on Monday, and the next day they dropped the order to the factory to start building my new one. It seems as soon as they get confirmation from fedex that the return has started shipping they'll start making your replacement. Also they gave me a ship date of January 26, but it's already been in production two days now, so I don't see how it will take that long. They probably just gave you a far off date just to be on the safe side for them.

 

is the 3D's display better than the 2D?

does the 120hz make any difference at all to non-gamers? (scrolling smoothness, mouse movement, anything)

when the screen is tilted, does it turn greenish or pinkish like most TN panels? how are the viewing angles?

how is the contrast ratio / blacks / brightness?

 

I need a favour please - I've sent my Envy 17 3D with USB dent back to the US from Australia and now it's stuck because I have to fill out an FCC form . I need to know the Envy 17 3D's FCC ID so if someone would post a picture of the FCC label or reply with the FCC ID, I'd be extremely grateful! Thanks in advance.

 

Hey I need someone to check something for me (preferably someone who has never re-installed Windows 7 on their machine).
I did a fresh install on my Envy 14 and now I'm having HDMI problems(no signal) so I can't play FIFA12(on the TV).
Is this correct?

Something tells me it wasn't 'Generic PnP Monitor' before I re-installed it. Could you please check for me and tell me what it is? (Computer->System Properties->Device Manager->Monitors)

 

Definitely. Scrolling looks less "choppy", and there is less ghosting of the mouse pointer when it moves across the screen rapidly.

I feel the 120Hz creates less eye strain as well. Some people are more sensitive than others, but when I switch back to 60Hz after using 120Hz it actually makes me feel a bit nauseous.

I went with the 120Hz screen specifically for the refresh rate; I couldn't care less about 3D.

 

Been looking at 120hz screen for the past 3 weeks. It's gonna suck to back to school next week and have to revert back to my 60hz one lol

This laptop is quite tempting.. If they have a really good deal in two weeks, I'll pick one up. If not, I'll make a egpu and stick it out with my laptop till the ivy bridge stuff comes out

 

I'm torn between exchanging my 15 for another and hoping the red issue is fixed or giving up an trying a 17 out...so any details on the display would be great


ps: there's another thread about the keyboard skipping keys, does this apply to everyone?? how's the heat/fan?

 

The 17" 3D screen is bright. Really bright. And to me, out of the box it has sort of a blueish tinge to everything. Like looking at everything under high-color-temperature HID Xenon lighting. I adjusted the brightness, contrast, hue and saturation on mine to tame it down just a little and I'm very pleased with the results.

About the only thing now that's really (very slightly) annoying to me is the size and weight. It is a large and heavy beast compared to my old plastic, 15" screen laptops.

Mine has not dropped anymore keystrokes, and it never gets hot. My old Toshiba and Dell laptops get hotter than this one.

Here's a screenshot photo of mine (really crappy low-light photo):
The red paint on the airplane is rather faithfully represented too.
You can see more pictures at http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photos/N421RT:1.html to compare the red.
The dark vertical stripe near the left 1/4 of the screen is the reflection of a dark brown wooden beam that goes across the ceiling of the room.

 

I wonder if the non-3D model will be as bright. My XPS 17 3D has a really bright screen and had that same HID Xenon look to it when straight out of the box. It was not really a blue tint... just a faint Xenon look to it. I think it is simply because it is so bright. It is a great looking display though... to me anyway. I hope my non-3D ENVY is as good.

 

cwfnetman, how are the viewing angles?



this is such a pet peeve of mine, the IPS' viewing angles arent much better than a macbook air; while the Envy 14 Radiance's viewing angles were horrid. Since this isn't IPS...I'm hoping it can at least match a macbook air.

 

I dunno, I guess they're just fine... I've never really paid that much attention to that, since I'm always looking at the thing pretty much straight on. I'm not at home right now but can check it later sometime and try to describe what I see.

 

Ditto, but you know, your head moves around slightly while in use. I ask because even small movement causes the screen on my 14 to change in color *slightly* (ie. the white changes more than anything) but it's annoying nonetheless if viewing for extended periods

 

I'm in front of the Envy 17 3D now, and it seems like I can get about 30 degrees off centerline before I can tell the brightness starts to diminish. The colors stay pretty constant though. At about 50 degrees off, whites start to take on a slight pinkish tinge. It still looks better at angles than my 24" dual monitors at the office.

 

Just got back from my vacation overseas....how's everyone liking the new Envy? Any major or minor issues pop up yet?

 

My order finally shipped today with an expected delivery by the 12th. I'm really hoping there are no build problems.

 

Ok this is too much i called up HP asked about ENVY 17 with 7690m-XT and when i asked what the performance of 7690m-XT is like they told me "Sir its more than a 7670m" lol

I had made a thread some days ago about the 7690m XT

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/634112-confused-over-7690-xt-envy-17-pls-clarify.html

Still i am not sure what shader count is compared to my MBP's 6750m, i mean does it have 480 shaders or 800? I saw 800shaders in GPUz and also 480 on this forum.

Things like this has confused me so much. I mean if both 7690m and 7690m XT are 480 parts why is there such a huge difference between the two??

6770m vs 6750m has far less difference than this whole 7690m vs 7690m-XT why?

 

Welcome back! It appears you have some reading to catch up on, LOL!

 

Hi everybody!. I'm the new baked owner of a envy 17 3005, my first envy, and just wanted to state the experiences that I have had over the first 5 days of use. I have not made driver changes, so experience relates to the stock setup.

If everything was up to my expectations I would not be reading and posting here, so, with that said:

Disappointments:
1-track pad is very non responsive, two finger scrolling works badly
2-keyboard is very, very annoying, skipping many keystrokes.
3-fan noise is easily audible at the lowest flow and obtrusively loud when I play Civilization 5, I'm guessing the GPU temperature is causing this (?) .
4-audio quality is worse than bad. I didn't notice this at first with the built-in speakers, but with a headset plugged in one of the output jacks it becomes evident. The signal-to-noise ratio is disastrous. Fortunately in my case, I have a Bose usb speaker set that I can plug my headset in to override the envy's hardware.

On the bright side, as not all is terrible:
Screen is very good, I like the design, build quality and materials seems very decent, well cooled (never hot on the surfaces), connectivity, positions of cd-drive, connections as well as general layout is very nice. Not too much bloatware.

Overall, the keyboard and trackpad are making me consider returning the notebook as being defect. This is just IMHO below common sense for the price paid. I honestly don't care much about high grade internals as I will use this notebook at home for movies and Civilization, but having to retype every 5 letter on a machine that set me back 1967$ feels like being kicked in the groin by a laughing HP-logo. Just writing these few lines I have had at least 15 missed keystrokes.

Do you think I should just bite the bullet and get used to it? Maybe it's a good as it gets?

On the off-topic: The envy has one hard drive; a 5300, 1TB HDD. Can I put a SSD in it to use as primary drive, and would I be able to 'move' the operating system onto the SSD? Would the SSD gain me anything other than a quick boot time, e.g. lower temperature?

Thanks for your time, I hope this can be of some help to anyone.

 

is the keyboard skipping issue affecting all laptops?

 

No skipping at all on my 15.

 

I would say you have a defective keyboard and I would certainly want it fixed or replaced. If you can get this resolved or if you get a replacement, you can definitely upgrade to an SSD. With an SSD you should notice overall faster loading of programs and response, in addition to faster startup and shutdown time. Use your large HDD for storage and backups.

You can use your recovery CD or make a recovery CD to use in loading your OS to the SSD. If you have already got a lot of programs installed and don't want to have to reinstall them, you could use something like Norton Ghost or Paragon Hard Disk Manger (which I use) to migrate from one drive to another.

For the trackpad issues see Alternative HP Envy Touchpad Mod (See this Thread for Instructions) and Another post for recommended settings

Check out the first couple of posts in this thread for several useful links.

 

I've bought the new 3rd gen 17" Envy too. My beloved Aspire 8930G (upgraded with SSD and W7) died (motherboard unfortunately not just the MXM graphic) so I had to get another big desktop replacement.

There's a few things I'd like to add to this thread. Especially regarding keyboard, sound and power I have something to say which seems not to have mentioned before.

Trackpad
Not worse than most other trackpads except that the integrated button design requires a little getting used to. Yeah would prefer ordinary buttons but not a real deal breaker for me - btw. I have the same thing against the Apple trackpad Would love if Synaptics would get them self together and release a driver which would allow two finger tap (yeah know about the third party extensions but prefer not to use such).
And yeah a little better scrolling response is wished for too. But again I won't rate this against the Envy as it's the same on all laptops with Synaptic trackpads - and really Synaptics are probably the best integrated ones there is right know - just ask people about how their Zenbooks and laptops with APLS behaves To my knowledge even Apple use Synaptics but of course different driver
That said the Logitech wireless trackpad does just about everything better - especially scrolling - so surely it can be done better on current Windows 7 and it's a matter of software. IMHO the only thing HP can be blamed for is choosing the integrated design. Oh and their marketing. Why the h... do they call it an "image pad" when all it is is a Synaptic just like most laptops although larger than average

Keyboard
As the others say. It's not belonging on such an expensive laptop! The skipping issue I believe is not a software/bios issue. It's a plain design flaw. One thing is that it's a chicklet style and while it looks great they're harder to type on than ordinary keys in the first place. Another thing is that when they're hit off-center they (on this Envy) tend to not register a keystroke reliably. Especially to the upper right for the ordinary sized keys - go ahead and try out in notepad etc. A bit getting used to and I can type without too many errors but really it's NOT belonging on such an expensive machine. Don't know if I've had the laptop long enough to not return it (and bought it in a store - Computer City - not online). But lets hope HP will acknowledge the bad quality of this keyboard and exchange it for free with a better when they get get themselves together.

However mostly I'm not using the keyboard and haven't done since my first desktop replacement as I'm using them mostly a stand and as such I'm using a wireless keyboard and mouse/trackball/trackpad whatever I'm feeling for. Yeah the new Logitech wireless trackpad is really great. Also for resting your mouse hand. As odd as it may sound I best use a mouse with my right hand (as most people) but trackpads I best use with my left hand - perhaps because that's how I mostly use a trackpad on laptop... Sorry if that wasn't exactly on track of the thread

Sound
Now this is really wierd!
As others have noticed. At first I though the sound was extremely bad. I mean it's not like I'm not used to listen to laptops - I certainly is - have had both a Pavilion DV9300 and an Acer 8930G before this one and they at first impression were light years better than this Envy!
The reason for this is first of all - the subwoofer - I can't get it to work if booting on mains power. However booting on battery and perhaps fiddling inside the windows sound control panel and I can get it to work. Far better sound! Perhaps on par with the old DV9300 but not quite up to the 8930G but none the less OK considered the Envy's physical properties.
Another thing is that whenever I enable/disable Beat's the settings I've set in the windows control is totally messed up. Enabling it and bass/treble goes to +4 and disabling it send the bass all the way down which explains why it's so ear breaking without beats enabled - like a PA speaker where only the treble horn is working. So that the subwoofer is working after much hair pulling (although only if booted on battery) tells me it's a software issue. So I really hope they'll fix it soon. Because this is also not to expect in such an expensive laptop. The software I'd say should be categorized as alpha - NOT production ready. Using the headphone output and fiddling with bass/treble/beats settings you can get great sound on external speakers.

Fans
Don't know if they're louder than many other laptops. Not the most silent either but not a big issue for me. If only they can keep the CPU and especially the GPU and chipset cool to prolong the life - but here only time will tell.

It's a big problem in many laptops that hot chips (like GPU) soldered directly to the motherboards with time will cause the soldering underneath to crack and require replacement of motherboard or re-balling repair (if you can find such service!). The problem has only gotten worse with ROHS. I wish they'd socket the GPU like the CPU and cooling wouldn't be such a big joker as the chips themselves actually handle high temperatures and thermal cycling quite well and a socket would eliminate solder cracks as it minimizes stress on the solder.

Phantom power drain
Leave it shut down a day without power connected and It'll say it's still charged 100% upon boot up with mains power. Leave it two days it'll say it's ~92% charged and charging. Use it on battery and shut down on say 90% wait a day and boot up and it'll say ~86% remaining.
Is that normal? Not something I've noticed in my other laptops but the other two big ones I've had I've also most used as desktop replacements and my netbooks have a different usage pattern although I'm probably seeing something similar in my Aspire One 150 w. latest BIOS but havin't done any investigation here to determine how severe (all laptops do have some drain as the power button is not physical but it should be very little).
Searching the net and other laptops have had similar issues although typically more than the 4-5% I'm seeing and BIOS updates seems to fix the issues. Wonder if I can count on that too here?

Screen
It's much better than average. No doubt about that.
But unfortunately not quite up to the old 8930G either. But hey. It's not just HP. These days it seems very hard to get laptop screens with decent colors - exactly why I fell in love with the 8930G some 3 years ago. Too many laptops - of course in the budget range but also way up to the upper mid range - seems to have screens where reds are faint, greens are odd and blues are way too emphasized. Like they're having a blue 2-stroke smoke cloud in front of them. Fortunately not with the Envy. Would have loved if it was on par with the 8930G but yeah it's good enough to live happily with - I'm just not overly impressed if you get my point.

Performance
I've not done anything demanding on this machine but even from my old 8930G with SSD and W7 which I was quite happy with until it broke down all ordinary task are just even more snappy.
I should add I've put an SSD in this too - of course. I first reused my old 120 GB OCZ Vertex 2 but decided to pull the trigger on a 240 GB Corsair Force GT to have some more room when I'm not at home and not relying on a USB HDD or internal just using power. It really flies. With the Force GT it boots in less than 18 seconds - and that's from you push the button (that is including BIOS stuff and such). I'm really impressive. Can't remember what I timed the Vertex 2 to. It was slower but really not something you'd notice without a stopwatch - not more than max a second or two more boot time.

A tip here:
Clone the original HDD to an SSD or other HDD of your choice in another machine BEFORE you start installing it. That way you preserve the possibility to make multiple recovery discs. Say I've used the option on making 6 DVDs when I cloned onto my SSD but then I want to make a recovery USB key instead - no prob. I just clone the (still untouched) original HDD to a free HDD I've got lying around and from that make a restore USB key. IMHO quite silly they only allow one set (yes you can always easy clone DVD / backup image of those) when many other like Acer allows unlimited. Perhaps there's another trick to make more restore options

So over all I'm really mixed with this machine.

Good:
* The casing itself is mostly really great. Great design and overall really quality feel although probably quite sensitive to scratches.
* Great battery time (as long as battery is new - would love them to use LiFePO4 instead or ordinary LiIon for longivity with a little trade of starting capacity)
* A solid performer

Bad:
* The keyboard definitely belongs on low end budget machine.
* Extremely crappy audio driver not at all production ready.
* Potential phantom power drain when off.

The relative:
* Trackpad integrated button design.
* Design. I like the etched pattern design of the old one - and especially on the lid. The black one most likely will show up scratches way more visibly than the old 2nd gen lid.

 

More on the subwoofer issue.

I've before encountered odd issues where the regional settings had an effect.
So is the case here.

It seems that if I set regional setting to English/US format and location to US then the subwoofer works upon boot up on mains power supply...
Normally my setting would be Danish / Denmark... It seems they must both be set to US (format and placement) otherwise I can't get it to work (haven't tried all English combinations).

So I can choose between great sound or proper regional settings...!
Is is too much to ask for both?

I presume it's needless to say what I think about such behavior. What IQ did the people that coded this audio driver have and did they even consider testing it properly?

Quite mad at the old one dying at such improper timing. Despite this HP has many flaws it's about the best I can't find on the market to suit my demands I would have waited for Ivy Bridge and ThunderBolt if the old one didn't die.

Any other non USA users having similar issues with the sound/subwoofer?

 

Hmmmn the keyboard thing seems to be growing in terms of how many people its affecting. I really wonder if its that bad though. Is it radically different from the keyboard in the 2000 series?

I know one guy who had both of em but that was before I left last year. He's probably returned one or the other by now but I'm sure he could provide some insight.

EDIT: Has anyone by chance tried using the caddy kit that newmodeus sells for the HP Envy 17 on the 3000 series to see if it works?

 

Where can you tell if the subwoofer is enabled? The problem I am having is the audio breaks up, as if there is too much bass for it, so hoping a setting can help here as well - thanks!

 

Quite easy to hear. Also you can feel it. If you can feel the bottom vibrate with a hand under it then it's enabled. Believe me. There's a universe of difference between if it's enabled or not. Without it it's like turning the bass on your stereo all the way down and the treble all the way up. Not exactly what you expect of "great beats audio lots of bass" even though marketing department of just about any consumer items tends to over hype it.

From your description I can't tell if it's working properly. On all laptops you have distorted sound if it tries to reproduce much bass at a too high volume. While some are better than others I don't think this one is particular bad - when the subwoofer works. Other laptops I've had had/has similar issues with loud bass and when working properly the limit is because of the small volume and the volume available for the speakers. Don't expect wonders milestones better than other good laptops - but I do expect it to be about on par with others - which it seems to be when I set the regional setting to US/USA (and after setting them do a shut down and power up again - perhaps a restart is OK too).

 

Marketing deception at it's finest. You disable BEATS and think "God, that really makes a difference.... BEATS is awesome!".

I leave it off and set the Windows bass/treble controls to 0. Noel Lee can shove BEATS up his........

 

technically, beats nerfs your system if anything. the beats disadvantage.

 

Hello everyone. Wondered if any one has heard of any problems relating to the 3D glasses that come with the 17 3D. I have only had my second generation model for a few weeks, but the glasses have stopped working. Any ideas in troubleshooting this issue would be fantastic.

 

the 33% Envy 15 and Envy 17 coupon codes are back:

HP Envy 15 Coupon, Beats Laptop, No longer discontinued

New HP Envy 17 Coupon Code, Best Deals for Envy 17 3D Laptop

Guess no 7690M XT, just regular? At least thats whats being stated now.

Less of an issue though vs the dv6t quad edition owners thread though where people didn't even know if they were getting those rebranded 7470M vs the 7690M (because of two 1GB Mystery Discrete AMD GPUs being listed)

 

Anyone know if you can overclock this new video card? Just curious to see if there is any last hope of keeping this laptop for gaming.

 

If that was the only problem I'd be happy.

If I boot up on battery the subwoofer works. If I switch my regional settings to US/USA (and restart) the subwoofer works. Regardless of Beats on or off - just like it should be. Yes there's a difference but it's still enabled with Beats off. I do not know why they feel it nessacery messing with the Windows controls when turning on and off - because beats should make a difference even without messing.

Actually I'd say Beats is useful when using it with the build in laptop speakers. Beats is basically more or less like SRS TruBass for those who know what that is. They're using the psychological knowledge to trick the brain think there's more bass than there really is. Of course for headphones and nice big stereo speakers you'd want to turn off beats.

 

So besides knowing if there is a way to overclock this card, has anyone had any issues with the Beats by Dre (or audio) software? For some reason, in songs the audio levels change in the middle of the song.

For example, on R&B or Rap songs, if the song starts without any bass, then the bass comes in later in the song, or if the bass stops for some vocals then comes back in, the audio levels change. So the volume seems to lower or adjust for when the bass comes in.

How do I turn that off so that the audio levels stay the same?

Edit: Forgot to add that this is with the headphones on. I don't know if it does it with the headphones off. I'm at work now, so I will try it with the laptop speakers during lunch.

 

MSI Afterburner 2.2.0 Beta 9

Yes, i have been doing so for weeks if I ever find I need some fps boost on 1080p Dolphin Emulator. It's awesome. Just be sure to push the core and memory clocks a little bit at a time to see heat. I've been able to go as high as 825 Mhz Core Clock and 1100 Mhz Memory Clock at relatively stable temperatures. Hottest I think I got was maybe 70 degrees Celsius (but I am using a ZM-NC2000 laptop cooler which I highly recommend).

I also recommend core temp program and gadget for desktop to monitor processor temperatures which are usually very close to graphics temperatures. On a side note I noticed that having HP Coolsense ON made the fan terribly and unnecessarily louder as it really pushes for max cooling designed for comfort while laptop is on your lap. But if it's stationary on desk, turn it off and the fan won't be annoying and the laptop can easily handle the temperatures.

 

So does anyone think its kind of a bummer that the graphics card in the new Envy is the 7690M and NOT the 7690M XT as was speculated for quite some time?

I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between the two but from what I'm reading the 7690M isn't that much of a leap forward. Perhaps they are waitign for Ivy Bridge before they put in a truly powerful graphics card....?

 

I thought the 17" comes with the 7690m XT which is faster the card that comes in the 15".

 

I am a bit confused. What is the graphics chip that comes with the Envy 17? I thought it was 7690m XT but on the HP site is it listed as 7690m. Did HP make a change or something?

 

Hence why I made my post....HP is just ridiculous with all this confusion they are creating. I hope by this summer they add a better option after the inclusion of Ivy Bridge.

 

Thanks both of you for that information. I don't know if I'll have time to play with it before I make a decision (today or tomorrow) because of work, so I'll just ask a couple more questions.

Out of curiosity what are your 3Dmark 11 scores after overclocking it? Is it a noticeable difference to you when you overclock it? I really like the look and feel of this laptop. I'm starting to play around with configuring other laptops right now, (Asus, MSI, Alienware) so I'll pull the trigger one way or the other by the end of the day today.

 

If you go Alienware follow the advice in this thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware/456885-aw-dell-ordering-advice-how-save.html

I saved upwards of $800 by haggling with a rep.