*HP Envy 15 Owners Lounge! PART 1*

My 2nd day air order just cleared customs in anchorage (at 6:48 PST)

My older order (5-7 day) is still chilling in anchorage, even though they were on the same plane. I guess the anti glare version is in 1st class seating....

 

Mine cleared as well

 

If this is a priority I suggest a small portable generator. Preferably an inverter type.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/products/modelhome/442/0/home.aspx

120W x 8 Envy's is 960W, sounds perfect!

Seriously do you edit HD footage while you are out fishing? I believe most people handle serious tasks while plugged in. At my house we have at least one outlet in every room.

 

Just negotiated a cruise ship contract to provide photo and video services to passengers while they are doing thier tourist activities (whale watching, sled dog rides, zip line etc.). In short we will offer still and video clips for them to review and order. We will need to do basic editing and transfer to an SD card for delivery before they leave port. There will not always be AC power available so mobile functionality will be needed sometimes....

 

Mine is in AK with you guys. Its like one happy litter.

 

We Are Brudders!

 

Does the envy have an express card port? Does this bother anyone?

 

No. Yes.

10101010

 

well if we had an expresscard slot we would have a way to add a USB 3.0 interface to the i5 models, so HP made another choice that ......

 

I'm with you guys in AK, here's hoping we get them by the end of the week.

 

^^;; Hey, does the Envy output sound via DDL (dolby digital live) or dts encoding? =D

 

My 1st gen Envy did not have this option, it would only pass those formats out, or send other sounds in pcm up to 8 channels.

 

update:
HP staff have confirmed they have no plans on unlocking the envy CPU speed from low frequency (idle) mode (locked at 933 mhz for 720qm, 1.2 ghz for 820qm and i5s) while on battery power:
http://www.thenextbench.com/t5/foru...sage-id/669/print-single-message/false/page/2

While the cheaper DV6t can throttle it's speed up to max speed and down to min speed while on battery power, the Envy cannot because the Envy uses a different battery technology (lithium polymer) than the DV6t (lithium ion). Lithium polymer enables the Envy to be thinner and lighter, but apparently doesn't hold quite as powerful of a charge.

When the Intel Core CPUs don't have enough power for turbo mode, it automatically gets disabled. When turbo mode is disabled, the CPU gets locked on to low frequency mode (multiplier gets locked at 7x or 9x). While 900mhz-1.2ghz is much weaker than most laptops in the past few years are on battery power(and low frequency mode doesn't allow throttling down to less than 7x to save battery power), it is the price you pay for transportability.

 

I do not see any specific mention of the i5 series anywhere in that thread or the 'final' response. Maybe wishful thinking on my part but I hope there might be a resolution on the lower powered i5's. Max TDP of 29W (i5 CPU only +6W for IGP) versus 45W for the i7 is a significant difference.

 

how bad is the 933 mhz anyway? Will it lag if I have say Microsoft Word open and use the internet with multiple tabs? As long as I don't try to play any games should be fine right?

 

Considering the i5s are shipping with PM55 chipsets (presumably because the PM55 has RAID capability and they want to offer dual SSDs) and PM55s cannot enable switchable graphics (only the HMXX series can), the watt difference between the i5s and i7s will only be 10 watt (both have same graphics card and i5 is 35 watt TDP vs 45 watt TDP for i7), which shouldn't change the ability to use turbo mode on battery power.

 

Some people are saying it does. Think back to before processors hit the 1 Ghz mark (and software wasn't as bloated as it is today).

 

Actually the normal max for the CPU half of the i5 is 25W and can use up to 29W if thermal limits have not been reached and a minimum of 6W is reserved for the IGP;

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mobile-core-i5-arrandale,2522-3.html

See second paragraph below image in above link.

Not trying to argue. My point is that it should take much less power to get the 2 cores in the i5 running at a reasonable multiplier. If they disable turbo mode it would be running at 2.53Ghz at 25W or less.

 

Ah, so we're talking about a possible 16-20 watt difference. Nonetheless, reports from people who have received their i5 Envy (johnobots) confirm it is indeed locked on battery power.

edit: And the link you sent was referring to when the IGP is enabled (they call it "typical consumption"- when the CPU has to share TDP with the GPU, so the the CPU will obviously will have a lower max TDP because of this sharing), not when it is disabled and doesn't have to share the TDP.

 

Sorry but if the max performance is 2.53 or 3.06 with turbo and it can do this within the 25W(or 29W) TDP then that extra 6W does not come into play, the CPU does not need more power to perform to spec, it will just run cooler without the IGP active.

EDIT; I believe HP has used the same throttling method on the i5 versions as original designed for the i7's. As you said it has the same chipset etc. The real question is: is this necessary due to the same battery constraints?

 

Could be I'm reading it wrong. Though the 720qm has a max single core speed of 2.8 ghz (which takes up 45 watt), and the 520m has a max single core speed of 2.93 ghz (without the IGP enabled). Between the two processors at a similar max single core speed I seriously doubt you will be saving more than 10 watt (about 25%) just going from 45nm to 32nm considering the smaller process is more leaky.

But who knows, I've been wrong before and technological miracles have happened before.

 

id like to point out, TDP isnt the best measure for power consumption. We found the 720-820qm to pull a lot more than 45w in the dell throttle investigation. Its a very power hungry processor. From the initial results from the i5's benchmarking from other sites, looks like their power is half the i7's which is great news as thats like 30w savings.

Im relieved to see they at least acknowledge the computer needs around 110w, at least they seem to know what theyre doing even if their answer is a bit of downer.

 

Your forgetting the other 3 cores of your 720qm, the first core can turbo up to 2.8G but the other three can still be running at 1.60G within the 45W TDP. The i5 has only 2 cores.

 

From what I understand, the 720qm will only run at 2.8 ghz if the other 3 cores are idle. But if not, the same case would be for the 520m, which could have the other core are 2.4 ghz then (not likely is you're only at 25-29 watt, you'd be looking at desktop Clarkdale type TDPs.)

 

Nope, it is in relation to the temperature more than anything else; if things were too hot inside there, it still wouldn't turbo boost for a single core, but likewise, if it could use turbo boost for all four cores and not hit problems in terms of breaching it's thermal envelope, then it would try to.

It is also in relation to the power requirements of course.

Anyway, some documentation does seem to suggest that it would not utilise turbo boost if all four cores are active for example; but I know that my desktop i7 does. In fact, it would utilise maximum turbo boost even when two cores were running, which apparently it's not supposed to do.

 

The mobile i5 will overclock by 133mhz of Turbo when both cores are in use, but no more than that. So with good cooling it can run flat out at 2.53ghz for the 2.4 model, and then 2.93ghz with the single core.

I really want to see how much they can be undervolted though, I feel there is a lot of headroom in there that Intel isn't taking advantage of.

 

And the 720qm runs 2 cores at 2.4 ghz (also very similar to the i5.) So at when 1 or 2 cores only are activated (which is the majority of the time), the i5 and i7 quad run at about the same speed. I still don't see how the i5 is going to save more than 10 watts just because of the 32nm process. A process shrink does not give you that much more efficiency.

Once the 3rd or 4th cores get activated on the i7, they all go down to 1.6 ghz to compensate reduce the energy required (depending on the heat generated.). The desktop i7s stay around 3 ghz when the last 2 cores are activated, which is why it has double the tdp (90 watt.)

Edit: as others have pointed out, tdp refers the heat and not to power consumed. A processor can be giving off 25 watts of tdp but still be consuming 40 watts of power (or vice versa). So the tdp is really meaningless when it comes to whether or not a battery can fully power a processor.

 

An important data point here is that according to Intel specs the TDP of the 720/820 only drops from 45 to 35W when going to LFM mode, so the potential reduction in power draw at peak load is only 10 W. Presumably it's even lower at lower loads.

 

If HP doesn't want to use a proper battery for their notebook (and that seems to be their reason for this), then they shouldn't advertise the speeds as "2.4GHz i5-520m" then. It is a notebook and I expect to get the advertised performance well using it as such.

If I have this throttling problem, the notebook will be going right back to them.

 

Guess I shouldn't be surprised that the register/log in links on HP's thenextbench site are dead...

 

Do we know yet if the 5830m is crippled with DDR3 or if it has GDDR3?

I'm thinking of buying the HP Envy 15-1110ea in the UK.

 

Well, I suppose if I don't like my Envy, Toshiba has a new one out. Doesn't have USB 3.0 yet and might be a monster size wise but it could be a possibility I guess.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...EFL012810-_-LaptopsNotebooks-_-E0A-_-34114796

 

933 mhz IS pretty bad. My first envy was a i7-720qm, and browsing the web (on battery) felt like browsing on a 56k modem connection. When browsing the web felt that slow, I couldn't imagine trying to do anything else. It went right back after a couple of days.

The 820qm feels much better on battery, since it runs at 1.2GHz.

So tell me something guys... Does the 820qm comes with a different battery?????????????? If the 820 can run at 1.2GHz on battery, why does the 720 have to be locked at 933MHz?

I still feel HP should let the user control this stuff via power settings.

 

It's probably because 933MHz 720 use same power as 1.2GHZ 820, since they use same amount power at maximum speed as well.

 

Bigcat, I'm assuming you have the slim battery. For lighter stuff, like reading pdf's and such hows the bat life?

 

VERY good point hehe. the 720 runs marginally warmer at 11x multiplier (1.46 GHz, off my 90W PSU). than on battery at 7x multiplier.

 

If you look 4 posts down from the first one, you see a post by Rabinator that says someone tested an i5 and it runs at LFM on battery also.

I must say, I almost pulled the trigger on the Envy 15 when it was on super-sale, and have been also eyeing the Dell XPS 1645/47, but to be honest, this whole mobile i7/i5 thing just seems that it was pushed to market too early. What kind of CPU runs ONLY at butt-slow speed when on battery? Excuses aside about not needing full power when on battery, realistically, I think that a product this expensive with a major limitation like this is not a good thing. Especially when I can run a C2D 3.06Ghz chip at full speed on battery just fine. 933Mhz is NOT an acceptable speed for a $2000 notebook.

I think I'll wait for the next-gen mobile i7's with lower power requirements that actually perform as advertised on battery or AC.

 

The low CPU multiplier on battery issue doesn't really concern me. I'll be doing CPU and GPU intensive stuff while at a power outlet anyway.

 

Ever browsed the web or played media at 933mhz? Ever navigated folders and files in Windows 7 at 933mhz? It certainly isn't only "CPU and GPU intensive stuff" that is affected. If they dropped all but one core on battery, but ran that core at full speed, I could possibly see that, but like I said before, paying that kind of money for a 933mhz mobile PC is a complete rip-off.

Why should anyone have to make such a compromise and live it with for years to come? I don't think you'll be the Envy of anyone at the coffee house or on the road or at school!

 

To be honest, I haven't used the slim battery much, though I did get it. I am mostly connected to AC power.

I think if you use the power saver plan, you may be able to run for two hours. But that's really pushing it I think. I really doubt anyone could run more than 1.5hrs or so on the 6-cell battery.

I am talking about i7s of course. We still have to see how the i5s do once machines start arriving.

 

cosigned...

 

Glad I got the i5. 1.2 ghz wont be as bad..

 

My $179 Dell Mini 10v runs at 1.3Ghz!

Edit: oops...I mean 1.6Ghz!

 

I understand the issue with not using the laptop for the majority of the time but I know i'd be pissed if in 6 months to a year an i7 update comes out that allows the processor to run full tilt on battery without any adverse effects, that would essentially deem the envy crippled, even if one were to consider it just a power saving measure at this point in time. I wouldn't mind if the battery only lasted for 30 minutes running four cores. If I were rendering an image on battery and it took more than 30 minutes i'd find an outlet. I will be playing with the functionality of this throttling, at 1.2ghz if I can't do basic things like surf/word/chat/code, in a casual sense, then I can't see it being very portable.

 

CPU performance is marginally better on Balanced or High Performance plans since the CPU is still locked at 7x.

 

The throttling is bad, but I'm typing on my i7 now, with just battery - multiple tabs open in Firefox as well as Excel and Outlook running and I have noticed no lag in performance. I have also ran a Powerpoint presentation on battery for 30 mins and had no problems whatsoever. In real life terms, as long as you are not doing processor intensive stuff, it might not be as bad you think!

 

I'd still like the option to run MY processor how I want.

 

You run your processor how you want, then HP voids your warranty claims how they want I note how your title is RMA master... I don't think HP likes losing money when people break things and then send them back for repair. I don't like it, I personally plan on seeing if I can work around it or something, see if I can lock it to a slightly higher multiplier or something, but I don't blame HP for setting things up to cover their rear ends. I would like to see the settings done better, but it may just be physically impossible to program the BIOS to do things like that. I'm not on the engineering team, I don't know.

 

I would definitely prefer a speed cap and not a lock and I would like to see some serious power control implementations via turning off ports, underclocking the gpu, loading things into ram and turning off the hd (if possible). They just did the minimum and quickest fail safe solution to improve lifespan and battery life. Pretty much an afterthought.

 

Honestly, I am super excited to receive mine- hopefully by Tuesday at the latest.

I don't care much about battery life as I can plug in anywhere. I initially wanted the battery slice but decided against it. I travel a lot and also bring my Acer 1410 along, just in case I get stuck in the airport. Planes even have plugs in business class, and some in economy. Hopefully the Envy won't drain the planes power!!!