*HP Envy 15 Owners Lounge! PART 1*

and yet, i don't think they should get away with it... they will surely get away with it, but still they shouldn't...

 

Cancel your order, that's what I did.

 

I am not saying they should/could get away with it, or that they have the right, I am just saying that is most likely a typo.

Now, the E2E was NOT a typo, and the dual drives where a "wanna-be" and that kinda bothers me...

 

This BT mouse would be nice... if the envy had a pc card slot :/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000G1D8HU...e=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B000G1D8HU

There is even an ExpressCard version.

 

The Dell supports DDR3-1333, though it really makes no performance difference compared to DDR3-1066. The 9 cell should last 3+ hours and weigh around 7.2lbs w/ 9-cell. The reason for the thickness is because it props up the notebook for ventilation. The i7 shouldn't be any hotter than the C2Ds (in fast, most likely be cooler) since when on battery, most people never stress their CPU on 100% load for significant periods of time. The i7 has far better power management than the C2Ds and can conserve significant power by shutting down cores. It is only when on A/C and maxing out CPU that the power consumption really hits where C2Qs are (well to be fair the i7s are quad cores with 8 threads, as opposed to dual and quad cores with the same number of threads as cores).

 

So when I am running ACAD 2010 in my lap you are saying that a C2D will be running hotter than a i7? How did Dell get away with a 0.8lb 9cell battery while HP's is over 2lbs? Does the 9 cell replace the 6 cell then? If so that would be worthless to have a 6 cell in the Dell imo.

 

Oh well no E2E then, Either way what screen we getting the WVA or the SVA?

 

I forgot. I have wanting to share this with you, for your benchmarks.
If you remember some time ago I posted I was going to ask Kevin O'Brien (NBR Admin) to help me with some benchmarks on the i7 720Qm. Right?

I never actually reported what we found out:

The i7 is NON-readable. What do I mean? CPU Z doesnt understand it. HWMonitor either, and some other programs couldnt. What was happening? They either read the cores at their max possible speed (CPU Z did this) and reported that all 4 cores were at 2966MHz. Do not ask me why that speed, if 2.8GHz is the limit...there was no answer on this matter.
The other programs reported all cores to be at 978MHz constantly. While the Task Manager gave better readings, they are not as precise...
So as conclusion there, we are hoping for an update on this.
My theory is that the TB is so new that the softwares dont understand what the speed range is, therefore the messy readings.

The Win7 profiles didnt seem to affect the i7. Swapping between High Performance and Power Savings didnt seem to affect the i7 on the readings. Constantly on the same speed. It seems like it ALWAYS throttles back to 800MHz according to the task manager. And the speed has some pikes and then re-throttles. It is quite strange.

We tried using HT only. (the laptop used was the G51J already reviewed) After tweaking around there was no MANUAL way to shut down the cores. The BIOS on the Asus was not helpful either, so sorry, but we couldnt.
The results were that the CPU does indeed turn them "off", actually what it does is to put them to "sleep" at very low power consumptions.
So we tried running a benchmarking app (cant recall the name ATM) that stressed one core. The core had a strange behavior, spiking the speed and lowering it again (it is jumping all the time...quite strange). Then launching a second app would turn the second core on and make it work. Quite strangely both cores could reach 2.8GHz (not simultaneously but turning the jumps up) something nobody has ever seen.

NOTE: core on win7 could be either a "real" core or a "virtual" core, and since the programs only recognize up to 4 (the ones used) there is no real answer if it was HT there or the other core. It did report that the other 2 cores present were sleeping...

In conclusion the results were very disappointing to be honest. But we could prove that the unused cores do go to a low-consuming state (not actually turned off) with an activity of 0-2% on Task Manager.

Forgot to say, the Task Manager showed the 8 cores, and when not used the other ones would go to a low activity state. And the speed on the active ones would jump up and down.

 

I wouldn't count on them actually shipping tomorrow. I certainly hope they do but I am not going to be surprised if they don't. I get the impression that they weren't really ready to launch this notebook, but did it anyway because of the Win 7 launch. The fact that none of them seem to have shipped out early implies to me that they aren't ready to go yet.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow!

 

The following are just my personal opinions about quality. Your mileage may vary.

Basically, Alienware just takes the fastest components they can get their hands on and slap them into a box, then sell it to anyone who wants to buy it. There's not much attention spent on long-lasting quality in those machines. All focus is on fast components and flashy exterior ("flashy" as in "bright flashing neon lights").

The Dell XPS series is similar but a bit better. Still, they often fail in quality after long-lasting heavy work. Like components on the motherboard becoming lose and damaged because of poor cooling in spots they've missed. Long-lasting quality isn't the primary factor for the XPS series, but rather good performance per dollar.

ASUS is a little bit random. They spend a lot of time on R&D and try to come up with their own custom solutions to squeeze out the best performance they can get. For ASUS, the primary factor is features. Quality can be good, or it can be bad. It depends on the specific product.

 

I read the notes about that cable...

"NOTE: this cable don't support signal from VCR, COMPUTER or LAPTOP output."

 

I don't see any combination of adapters to from HDMI (digital) to VGA (analog)...

 

There is no manual way of shutting down the cores. Typically when doing nothing, they will be in a C state, I believe C2 is shut down, but on my desktop i7 I never ever saw that state achieved, just C or C1; which I believe are low power states - but the clocks are still running. It's in the Core i7 documentation on the Intel site; I just can't be bothered to look right now as I'm just typing this before hitting the sack.

By the way, to monitor each core you could try TMonitor from CPUID. It worked fine on my desktop, should work ok with a notebook. You'll notice that yes indeed it does always throttle back when not busy; but then so do C2D processors when you've enabled SpeedStep.

 

If an 4 threaded app thinks you have 8 cores, what's to stop it from using the first 4 "cores", which is 2 processors, and leaving the other 2 unused? I don't understand the point of hyperthreading here.

 

Hyper threading helps keep physical cores fully loaded (fully loaded is the most efficient use of a core).

Every thread ends up executing on a physical core, the benefit of virtual ones is when threads stall (wait for data or another thread to finish) another thread can take up physical cycles to make use of the core instead of it going idle.

As a random example (fake numbers) with 4 physical cores and no hyper threading each core might go idle 10% of the time. With hyper threading the cores stay close to 100% load and finishes the task earlier.

 

But theres only one jack!

How do you connect both the microphone input AND the headphone jack of the headset into a single combo mic/headphone jack?

 

http://www.electronicproductonline.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1996

 

The OS load-balances all threads in the PC. If 4 threads are running at full speed, the OS will place them one on each physical core. An application doesn't (normally/easily) specify which core or hyperthread its threads are supposed to run on.

 

Good question! Before I had in my mind a mini-jack like for a cell phone--wrong. Sorry... The service manual (section 9 I think) shows example mic and headphone connectors but mentions nothing more about this.

 

Check out the splitter I linked in the previous post. It is exactly what you are asking about... I think. It allows you to hook seperate mic and headphones into a single connector.

 

Notice how that plug has 4 pins (left audio output, right audio output, mono audio input, ground).

Then look at the pin configuration in the Envy 15 service manual (page 115, section 9-1). Notice how there are only 3 pins and how they are used for EITHER stereo output OR stereo input...

 

That has got to be another typo :/ ... I would hope. There are some USB adapters that allow for seperate mic and headphone inputs if this is actually correct. What a PITA! http://www.amazon.com/Channel-External-Sound-Audio-Adapter/dp/B0027EMHM6/ref=pd_sim_e_4

Or just get a usb headset. Fantastic 1 less usb port! Way to go HP. Premium notebook my butt... sheez. By the time we get all the stuff we need this thing will weigh 20lbs with 40 adapters, usb hub, battery slice, power brick, a birds nest of cables, external HD, and an external OD! What a mess.

At least if I dont like it I could sell it on fleebay and wind up with a free MSI 1727 considering my BCB.

 

If you're running full load on CPU, the i7 will run hotter for the period it's at load, but it will at load for a lower amount of time. On battery, typically, you wouldn't load your CPU much. How hot depends on the cooling system of the Envy (which you will have to wait for more reviews), but so far I hear it's fairly good. Dell's 9 cell is 0.8 lbs more than the 6 cell, not 0.8 lbs total (it's around 2lbs total, the 6.5 lbs figure is w/ 6 cell).

 

Yeah, I'm still hoping the jack is a 4-pin... After all, section 9-1 in the manual is showing the pin layout of a headphone or microphone male plug - not the female jack in the notebook...

It doesn't make any sense to have just one audio jack and not make it 4-pin. Perhaps it's a 4-pin jack, where you can plug in either a 3-pin stereo headphone, a 3-pin stereo microphone, or a 4-pin headset...

But note that there are two microphones on the Envy 15 already, so we could just use those instead of the microphone on the headset in worst case...

 

I see. For me this kills the Dell (love the screen but thats the ONLY thing). I would never have the 6 cell in the notebook in that case. That makes the computer a behemoth, 2.25" thick and 7.2lbs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Envy's screen opening angle.

 

Too bad they don't have a battery that allows you to change shape from flat to L shape. The battery helps ventilate the bottom but it is bulky.

 

On the HP.com web site, go to Customer Service, then click "Replacement parts" (under "Parts and services"), select "United States-English" (click the little arrow nexto the pulldown box). You'll end up here:

http://h20141.www2.hp.com/hpparts/default.aspx?mscssid=87DAEE2A74BA4644AE4DCB43015B14F5

Then select "Search by part number" and search. The part is labelled "SPS-ADAPTER HDMI TO VGA LOCAL USE ONLY" (in stock)... I'm not sure what "local use only" means, or if you can actually buy it, or if it will work with an Envy 15 and a VGA projector...

 

Yeah that would be very thoughtful. Oh and I do like the backlit keyboard so the screen is not the only thing I like

 

Thanks for the response Smedis, I was just curious.

Because of all the misinformation, I decided to cancel my order last night, until I see more user opinion. I still have not received my email confirming that they were able to cancel the order. I am thinking they will just send out my order and expect me to send it back. I guess we shall see. I appreciate everyone who has offered info. Still want to hear more!

 

I will assume you are joking. The HDX20 is a 15lb+ big boy and a 2-3lb PSU with zero chance of being used in a small, confined space. (Albeit, I loved mine. The screen was beautiful).

The M15x is 9lbs and a ~1.2lb adapter. They aren't anywhere near in the same league. The M15x is roughly the same weight as a M17 (not M17x), with a smaller PSU. Total weight, the M15x is much closer to the Envy 15 than it will ever be to the HDX, lol.

And outside the 260M, the power requirements are the same across both systems for the most part with both using the 45w i7 CPUs.

I mean, is the M15x a chunky butt system? Heck yeah. But there is no comparison size/weight wise when compared against the boat anchor that is the HDX 20.1" big boy.

 

So you ditched on the m15x and the Envy, what you looking at now?

 

Ok... so what 3dmark06 score does this thing get? Sorry if it has been mentioned already, but.. 90 pages... and I don't see much on the first one.

 

I believe it was in the 7k range

 

7k but at what resolution?

 

to my fellow Ausies! I just went past my Harvey's store on way home. Still no Envy's yet. I'll try call again later this arvo.

On a side note. I had a SHORT play with one of the new DV7's. Core i7-720, 4gb ram, gt 230m 1gb. I wanted to get an idea on heat. I only had time to go through the first time start up. The processor area got slightly warm, no warmer than a C2D. Fast start up! The fan was also REALLY quiet, hardly was blowing out any air. Good signs if you ask me! I would consider the envy having much better cooling then the dv7 so we should hopefully be in good shape! (btw, the dv7 i played with was the dv7-3006 - rrp of $2299 aus dollars)

 

No no.. still looking at either or right now..hehe. Just waiting thats all.

 

7231 This was a PrePro Envy so I don't know how accurate it will be. It also had the 820QM.

http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhhZtfWDqlz0Q6h_ViD_6hp1EpD78g

Doesn't specify the resolution :/

 

I had the Dell XPS 16 for awhile and was really concerned about the heat, but it turned out to be a non-issue. I think the heat was more of an issue with the older video card versus the new 4xxx card. I also had a P chip in there so that will vary considerable to the core I7 chip. But it was one of the coolest running notebooks I had used. The reason I returned mine (not that you asked was I couldn't get used to that flat keyboard and flat mouse buttons. Made typing much more difficult and the sharp edges on the front of the machine. Just little ergonomic things, but all in all a well built machine. The screen obviously is a stand out feature for it and with the Core i7 chip the Envy 15 really doesn't have that much of an edge against it IMHO.

 

Good news about the heat but 2.25" thick with only a 9cell is unacceptable to me. If it was 6cell +9 cell like the Envy I would still consider it.

 

The unit we played with scored: 7841 in 3dMark06

SM 2.0 3087
SM 3.0 3233
CPU 3011

That was with 1280 x 1024 res.

PCMARK 05 was 6999.

Catalyst 9.0 was used. It was a beta driver from the ATI website.

Hopefully this helps.

 

Yeah... One should keep in mind that almost nothing gets hotter than a Macbook Pro, for instance, but you don't see people dumping them in the gutter on account of it.

 

@newfiejudd

Do you still have the machine?

Can you check the Catalyst Control Center and see what the memory and core are clocked at (should be under Overdrive)?

 

No sorry I don't have access to it anymore. Sorry.

 

Thanks for the answers. I think I'm gonna wait a little longer until I decide to sell this laptop and buy another one. The Envy 15 would suit my needs perfectly if it wasn't for the underwhelming video-card and hard-to-reach components, but I still haven't discarded it as an option.

 

I thought the graphics card in this was decent.

The only things really worrying me now is, Heat, I want to use this laptop for a while and I don't want the heat to kill it, The reviews on the HP website says it's really hot. And I'm worried about the limited range of the screen tilt.

 

Let us know what they do for you!!

 

my guess is they will do nothing, but it's worth a shot. this is false advertising no matter how you slice it

 

i personally wouldn't rely on user reviews from the HP website. wait for professionals to review the product. so far there has been one, http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/HP-Envy-15.htm.

 

I did some measuring on my Intel X25M G1 160 GB using a metal ruler.

Without the plastic spacer the height is just a tad under 7mm.

Without the plastic spacer and the top metal cover, the height is just a tad uner 6mm.

The actual circuit board with the NAND-chips is 5mm at its thickest point (which is the SATA connector). However, as the primary and secondary SATA connector ports on the motherboard are on opposite sides, I guesstimate that two X25-M circuit boards sandwiched on top of each other would be less than 9mm tall in total.

 

good news indeed!