*HP Envy 15 Owners Lounge! PART 1*

? But the original point was that Apple's best mobile processor (which is still inferior to the i7) will still have you spending much more than the Envy costs -- not "about the same"...

 

Sure you can always compare them. You can compare an apple with an orange as well, but it still doesn't make them equivalent - even if they cost about the same. You could do a comparison based purely on price, but then you wouldn't be comparing equivalent computers. Two computers aren't equivalent just because they happen to cost the same.

There are several laptops that are in the same league as the Envy 15. But Macbooks aren't there yet - definitely not when the "cost is about the same" as you said. Core i7 is really a new generation of CPU - it's not just a new label that's spelled differently.

 

Does this mean they will get a refresh sooner than expected?!

 

Wait, so by your logic if there is an OEM that produced only laptops with P-iii M, PC133 dram, ATI Rage and 20 GB 3200rpm HDD; since it's the top of the line for this manufacturer, then it should be priced comparably to the Envy 15? So I guess by "What's under the hood is immaterial" you literally mean that, and you would be happy to pay 2k+ $ for a Pentium Pro / AMD K6 machine in 2009.

C2D is about 3 and 1/2 years old in the market, and even the 45nm version is already 2 years old. It is by definition the previous generation chip and would be used in low-end to some mid-range machines. What you said makes very little sense in the real world where computer components are being replaced and superceded yearly. Any machine with C2D at moment is simply old in terms of hardware capabilities, and should no longer command a premium price.

 

Edit: Just wanted to say, I disagree with the other guys reasoning as to why they're the same. Becuase "they are the current-top-of-the-line doesnt make sense to me either. But I still think they are equivalent nonetheless....as I explain my point of view below.

Umm.... they are the same in the sense that they are both competing for the same market share. Even if ones C2D and the other is i7 they're still both 15" inch laptops at ~$1700-1900 price points. Both of them are aiming for the same consumer. And by this I mean, when someone goes to buy a 15" laptop with a nice form factor for about ~$1700, they will be picking between the Envy 15 and the MBP 15.

I realize that you could counter-example with something like a Sager, but even though they both have i7, 15", and ~$1700 (roughly). The form factors are different, and the Sager is marketed at a different market segment. The gaming crowd.

So Yes, there's a reason why all the reviews compared the Envy 15 and the MBP 15" when they reviewed the Envy. It's because they are equivalent. Even if they're insides aren't.

Just my two cents...in this debate that's going on right now.

 

Agree with the above the MBP is comparable. Dont believe it is equivalent though.

For the price range consumers will consider the MBP and the Envy.

Its basically choose any two of the below

Weight
Power
Battery life

Envy 15: Has the best Power and Weight
MBP: Best battery life and Weight
Qomiso (and a number of other desktop replacements): Best Power and battery.

Even i considered the MBP before getting the Envy, when Apples gets i7's then the Envy will be obsolete, but until then the Envy is the best laptop for power and weight.

 

If two computers are competing for the same market share, I can agree that they can be compared. They aren't necessarily equivalent though. It is so because market shares aren't unique; they overlap, have fuzzy borders, can be broken down into sub-segments, are part of higher-level markets, etc. One could even say that all notebooks and netbooks are in the same market segment - the portable computer market segment, but you still wouldn't say an Atom netbook is equivalent to a Core i7 notebook.

For instance, in the case of the Envy 15, I would say it's in the performance, form factor and style market segments. Macbooks are in the latter two but certainly not in the former (anymore). You could also definitely say that the gaming market overlaps with the performance market, but performance/price efficiency also comes into play.

So which computers you will be comparing depends on which angle you come from. If you're coming from the portable gaming/performance angle, you'd include the Sager and many others in the comparison. And you probably wouldn't compare the MBP at all since it's Apple and doesn't have many games (though you could install Windows on it).

What I'm saying is that any comparison like this would be based on something the computers have in common. Form factor, price, OS, etc. But even though you're comparing them, you should know that they aren't necessarily equivalent. Any non-Core i7 is definitely not equivalent to a Core i7, since they're different generations of hardware. They may still have things in common - price, form factor, weight, even color (if that's what you're into).

For computers, the most important defining factor is the CPU and the GPU. These are things that are normally not easily replaceable without replacing the entire innards (i.e. motherboard and possibly other components as a result of this), and they will affect everything you do with the computer in a major way.

So while you can compare an apple with an orange, because they're in the same market segment - fruits - you can definitely say that they're not equivalent.

I realize that these defining factors aren't necessarily the ones that are the most important ones for the customer. For instance, one customer may simply not want to have to peel his fruit. So he picks the apple. A notebook customer may simply not like Windows and he picks an MBP. Etc.

 

In some ways, it is true that they are quite comparable, but not in the sense that the largely same group of users would be buying them. Their form factor, weight, and chassis build-quality are quite similar; but other than these, there is little similarity beyond.

There is really no comparison with a 2c/2t thread microprocessor with a at best middle of the road GPU built from an old manufacturing process designed nearly 3 years ago, with a 4c/8t microprocessor with a up to date recent deigned and manufactured GPU and 4 dimm slots to boot. The mixes of workloads that they would be able to handle would be entirely in different leagues. There is no way that anyone who would need to come close to saturating the performance of an Envy 15 would find the performance of a current 15" MBP tolerable. On the other hand, there is really no comparison of a 7hr battery under real usage to a machine that gets at best 2.5 (w/o the slice); there is no way that someone who usually uses the machine with a routine and light workload for long periods of time away from a power source would find the Envy a workable solution.

So they are for entirely different usage patterns and subsegments in the market; so I don't see how they are comparable in that sense.

I would not count on it. In fact, most likely Apple is waiting for the 2c/2t and 2c/4t Arrandales to drop in January to update their 15" MBPs. I think that there is a decent possiblity that 17" MBPs will be equipped with 4c/8t i7 in the future, but that probability of that happening on the 15" models is very slim.

The current 15" MBP has much less robust thermal dissipation capability than the design of the Envy. Simply less air flow cross-section and less thermal conducting materials are used in the MBP for that purpose. Even with the Envy at the F04 BIOS people still complained that the machine constantly ran hot (although fixed with later BIOS in BTO models). It is very unlikely that Apple would be able to put the current 45nm clarksfield chips into the same 15" chassis with the same cooling mechanism as their C2Ds. TDPs of C2D system (with northbridge) and that of a clarksfield might be similar, but TDP measures the maximum power dissipation of a system that can be allowed before the multiplier on the microchip must be throttled down, and has little to do with average power dissipation.

In addition, one of the chief reasons why current MBP gets superior battery life is the availability of integrated graphics; and there is 0% possiblity of that happening on a clarksfield design, since the only interconnect outside of the chip package that has access to system memory is through the DMI bus, which does not have good bandwidth for graphics application. But Arrandale on the other hand, has graphics built in. So unless Intel is willing to redesign, refab, nand repackage clarksfield without the DMI but with a QPI (like the bloomfields on desktops), there is 0 chance of a 4 core nehalem mobile chip working with integrated graphics. And If Apple wants to go the direction of clarksfield, then they would have to adjust battery life expectations accordingly.

 

Has anyone managed to successfully install Linux on the Envy (e.g. with no heating/fan issues)?

 

Anyone had any luck updating their Intel x25-m's firmare without removing it from the Envy?

The Intel boot disc states that there are no ssd's on my system. I have tried holding cntrl+i at post but I don't get the sata bios/menu. My Envy was NOT a factory dual drive raid system as most of you know. I would think I should still be able to access that sata controller bios... I hope.


The only thing the MBP can compare to Envy is a 15" form factor.PERIOD. The only notebook that compares to the Envy is the MSI GT640 atm. The MSI doesn't have the resoultion that the Envy has and is a bit thicker. However the MSI has a MXM III slot so it may be possible to put a nVidia 280 in it which would kill the video performance of the Envy.

 

Looks like an Arrandale refresh for the MBP is in question:

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/07/apple-to-skip-intel-arrandale-demands-alternative-chip/

 

I know. The Envy is far superior.

What's under the hood is the important part, not the case. If so, we could compare a ULV to this, since the thickness is almost the same compared to larger ULV notebooks. No offense, but that is rather illogical.

It was a matter of time for Apple to get Arrandale, it would be strange if they didnt.

 

What matters is the resulting performance. How it is achieved hardware-wise does not matter. Let me give you an example.

Lets say we do a car race. Stipulations are, it must be stock cars under $XYZ that weigh less than a certain amount. I end up winning by a huge margin. You claim the race was invalid because my car has a V8 while yours has a V6. But both cars met the requirements.

Giving Apple a pass means rewarding them for being behind on the technology curve. That does not seem to make sense.

I really don't care if my laptop has 1, 2, 4 or 64 processors. All I care about is how fast the pixels move on the screen. The Envy moves a lot more pixels for the same weight, size and cost. But at the price of a lot less battery life.

 

The battery slice problem has supposedly been resolved with a redesigned slice. call up hp support and get in line.

The lines on the screens can be hard to see under many conditions. I use lightroom and photoshop and see them all the time while trying to edit the pictures. My envy is currently at HP so they can try to see if there is a problem.

If you are installing an intel x-25M G2 you will be limmited on the sata performance but the speed will still be 10x faster than the stock mechanical drive.

for me the problems are screen (these lines are just too distracting in photoshop), slice (supposedly fixed), sata ( my vertex ssd is not much faster than the sata anyway so not a huge problem for me)

otherwise screen resolution, sharpness, brightness, size, weight and battery life (with slice) are what really make this laptop shine.

 

And that is why the Envy and the Apples are not comparable. The Envy is more of a workhorse than the MBP15. It has a higher resolution, much higher end components, and it shall perform faster.

2 cores at 3.06 which is the top of the Apple cannot match up to 8 threads at 1.73. When heavy workload is on the Envy it will perform faster due to the i7 being better than the C2D and the ATI being MUCH better than the NVIDIA. Apple has better battery life thanks to OSX which is better on consumption than Win7, the IGP which the Envy lacks, but lets remember the Envy has a removable battery, while the Apple has not, and it voids your warranty to remove it.

Apples are almost "just look it bad and bye-bye warranty", they were even trying to void warranties to smokers, if you change the battery, the HDD or almost any component, not to mention the IGP, GPU and CPU are all soldered on the MoBo, which IMO is the worst fail ever. If you 9600M GT fails (or should I say "when"?) you have to replace everything.

Now, the Envy has a shorter battery life, but consider the ultra-high-end CPU and GPU inside, the HDD which will consume, the large display, the amount of RAM slots it has, basically the Envy is pretty impressive to last, considering how the new Sagers only reach an hour or so, and besides the GPU they are comparable.

If you need more battery life than that the Envy can provide, then get a Mac, but at least I, not only dislike paying an outrageous price for sub-par hardware (compared to the PC with the same price tag), but the OSX is no good for me.

 

Fair enough. One point to note though, MacOS is not actually better at power management. It gets better battery life on Apple hardware because Apples Windows drivers are generally poor at power management. Drivers really make or break power management, which is why Apple does well in that area. They have very tight control over their hardware and software and don't put useless crap on their boxes (for the most part, but at least their sofware is not as atrocious as what PC vendors put on).

Which is why I am always extremely sad when even a high-end laptop like the Envy comes with crap installed. I understand that the business model requires them to do it to be able to sell laptops for $500, but we are talking almost 2k base here...

 

1 dead pixel each time, they just deliver a new laptop so you give them everything back.

 

Do you have more information on this slice? I just ordered the slice separately a week or so ago. I wonder if I received the old slice or the new one. Thanks

 

Generally what is HP support saying about the lines in the screen? However subtle, a problem of this nature is absolutely absurd in a high-end laptop, especially one which purports to have a good display and is graphics-oriented. Absurd that they would tolerate it.

 

After delays with my Dell XPS 1645, I ordered the Envy. My laptop was supposed to ship yesterday Dec 7th. I called today to see if it was delayed and the gentleman said that it was at customs from China and it will be delivered on time. About an hour after that phone conversation, I got an e-mail from HP saying my order was delayed due to product constraints and would not ship until Dec 21 and I was free to cancel. With five day shipping, I won't get it for almost three weeks, so I canceled my order. I ordered on Nov 27th. I have been trying to get a laptop since Oct, so I figured I might as well continue to wait and monitor the forums to see if I will still get an Envy, XPS 1645 or something else. My copy of Dragon Age will continue to collect dust and I will have to borrow my wife's laptop since my laptop died a few months ago. Good luck to you all.

 

Oh that is terrible to hear NC1701-D. Such a shame from HP. Still stick around, NBR has always news and the releases lately have been quite a lot.

 

I ordered mine Sunday after Thanksgiving, and it shipped on the 7th as promised. I got the SSDs and extra RAM, the rest default. I wonder if they are short one specific part.

 

Ordered my hp envy maxed out with all the goods! - any news on when linux will not turn it into a puddle of molten metal?

to get around the re-installation problems - why don't you just ghost the hard drive when u first get the machine.. - and when it's time to re-install - just wack that image back on the main drive... it'll be faster than re-installing too..

pm

 

Mine was ordered Thanksgiving Thursday, was supposed to be shipped the 4th but shipped today. I got a $50 coupon and an apology from HP, that's ok with me.

My guess is that the slice delayed the build - configuring a new one with a slice the last few days consistently delays the ship date by two days. That rings with the info about redesigned slice above, the manufacturer could have been waiting for new batch of slice batteries.

 

This laptop is amazing--I'm very happy with it . . . .

One question: I've noticed that my hard drive occasionally makes that "trying to park the heads" knock that I've noticed on other seagate drives in the past . . . in the past, this was typically due to some misguided attempt to save electricity/etc. On my old laptop, you could set the hard drive to "high performance" to avoid this parking sound.

Is anyone else having this problem? How do you set the performance settings on the Envy to avoid this problem?

Thanks,
N123

 

Do you mean a high pitched sound? Yes i have it I dont' know how to solve it.If you can you will be my hero.

 

No--thanks for the reply, but it's the sound of the hard drive heads periodically trying to park (only happens every couple minutes) . . . I'm pretty sure this is different from the whining high pitched sound that others have described. . .

. . . it's a very characteristic sound that I heard when I had a Seagate 500gb Hard drive in my old Dell Laptop. I had to install a 3rd party system tray app and set the hard drive to "maximum performance" so it wouldn't try to park the heads creating the sound (this sound is the result of an energy saving "feature") . . .

 

Actually this was the fix for that knocking sound on the Dell . . . perhaps it ?is? the same thing you're talking about:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=168425&highlight=seagate+clicking

Has anyone tried this yet on the Envy?

 

it has arrived!

posting from the envy now

So far very happy except for the heat and keyboard.

Heat: I have the 820qm chip so i guess its hotter than the 720's. Its live able but very hot.

Keyboard: i keep forgettign the that there is an extra colum of keys ont he left. i keep pressing the shortcut keys instead of the caps and tab keys.

i'll post benchmarks of the 820 later (or has someone already done that?)

my system is the Aussie "higher" spec standard, so 820, 8gb ram, 1080p.

 

First post. Had trouble getting verified...

Sigh...

Got My Envy 15 at BB on the 24th, the standard BB model. Stuck on my slice and haven't taken it off yet...

The lines thing, I can only see them from about 10" - 11" away ( but I wear bifocals, so I *envy* you guys good eyes... ). It is all good to me.

The Envy is the most powerful and best looking laptop I have ever owned. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder so mileage may vary, and if you don't necessarily like the way it looks I won't argue the point.

I purchased two accessories for it, a bluetooth ms mouse and a slimline bluray drive.

( MS Bluetooth notebook mouse 5000 and Velocity Micro VMBluDrive )

I also have a pair of Bluetooth headphones that I already had.

( HP F-0361A )

My only issues with this beast are the incomplete state of the drivers, which I know will be rectified in time as with all new tech., and the heat problem.

I have even had it shut down once due to high temperatures.

I have, however, traced my heat issue to the ehtray.exe process, which MS states is used in Win7 to prevent idle....

As soon as my lappy starts howling like a jet, I go to the Task Manager and sure enough the stupid process has started - once I kill it all is golden.

It is a part of WMC, so I guess I will either need to disable that or find some way to keep it from running. I am a bit leery about that though and was wondering if anybody here knows how to safely neuter the stupid thing...

Thanks in advance.

 

Welll my Envy 15 was supposed to ship the 8th....not tracking as of now. I'll keep posted as to status.

Can anyone make a recomendation what mouse is best to use for playing games like Modern Warefare 2. Logitech?

 

Just got my Envy yesterday which was ordered on 11-26 and shipped on 12-3. Specs are 820, 4x2gb RAM, dual SSD, and external BD-ROM. Haven't tested everything yet but SSD 4KB random read is only 10MB/s like everyone else.

Anyone have problems with the HP BD-ROM drive? I see many external drives are AC powered or need dual USB power but HP needs only 1 USB and it has 2 extra USB ports. I assume you shouldn't be using anything on the 2 ports while you are burning something.

 

thanks for the heads up. i'll remember this once i get my envy on the 23rd. this will be the first thing i'll disable..i won't use WMC anyway.

 

i wondered the same thing. So I used my bluray drive to play a movie while copying files off an external hard drive which was plugged into the back. You can see the transfer rate of the hard drive fluctuate probably cause the USB port on the envy is maxed out but other than that it works perfectly.

 

I have a question..

Since the laptop have a combined headphone/microphone jack, how do i plug in a headset with 2 seperate connectors for headphone and microphone?? What kind of adapter is needed for this, cant find an answer to this anywhere on google

 

Worst case, you could use an USB adapter like this one:
http://www.kjell.com/?item=31624 (link in Swedish)

 

I have the HP BD-ROM drive and the documentation that comes with it specifically states that the USB ports on the drive should be used for non-bus powered devices only (presumably because the BD-ROM drive needs most of the 500ma available from the USB port.)

Thus far I have tested it by plugging in a flash drive into the BD-ROM drive and it worked just fine. I have also plugged an external hard drive in and it also worked just fine (The external hard drive I use is powered by it's own power adapter.)

I suspect most flash drives will work since they draw a minimal amount of power but bus-powered external hard drives will likely cause problems.

 

Ah ok, thanks for your answer.

And what is the best case? What are the available options if i dont already own a headset?

1.That adapter in your link: USB adapter with headphone and mic 3.5 connectors. >then i can use a regular headset.

2. Buy a USB headset.

3. ???

Why is there a combined headphone/microphone 3.5 jack if there's really no way to use it combined?

 

You'll need something like so:
http://www.instructables.com/id/133quot-Macbook-Pro-HeadphoneMic-Adapter/
I'm gonna go around town to see if any store sells it. Maybe Fred-Meyer, RadioShack, or the Apple Store. Macs have the exact same configuration, so the latter of the three would be best.
Edit: In my haste I didn't read the whole article. They make the adapter themselves, but I'm pretty sure you can buy one too.

 

Wait, so are you all saying that if I had a headset, like one i can use with my phone, so it's a headphone with a mic, it's not going to work?!

 

No, I had a cheep pair of SkullKandy Ink'd with a mic that works with ipods/iphones. The jack has four connectors rather than three to incorporate the mic. It worked flawlessly, but sounded pretty bad. I'm betting there's adapters out there that will work to take both the separate jacks and turn them to one.

 

http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-droid-2trs.htm

dont waste your USB ports, we dont have enough!

Our USB ports can supply 3amp to any any one port. (2 ports will draw 1.5amp each) most laptops only supply 1amp, because of this we do not require dual USB plugs or external power packs.

 

This was sent out by a hp rep over the thenextbench.com. I have not yet orded mine because my envy is in the shop for the screen issue. but I would like to get the slice fixed too.

 

Oh, i also wonder if there's something you have to do to make the integrated microphone to work. I tried a MSN conversation but it didn't work so i checked all the settings and it seems fine... if there's not something i have overlooked that is?

 

it broke!?

keyboard stopped responding when i was creating the recovery discs...

hmmm letting it cool down while i find a usb keyboard to test, could not even go to BIOS, so its not a Win7 issues has to be HW failure....

well USB KB works...

[edit2] ok seems you have to uninstall the keyboard driver then restart the machine and it will reinstall the driver. after that its working again.

No idea why this happened in the first place...

 

Hope it shipped and you get the tracking # soon!

As for the gaming mouse...here is one I might get once my Logitech VX dies (which won't be for a looooong time at this rate):


Razor Orochi gaming notebook mouse. It's a bluetooth mouse that can be plugged in via USB when you want to game (at 4000 dpi) or to recharge the battery.

 

having some trouble here...

trying to clean install win 7, made the disks, startup, select language then

"a required cd/dvd drive device driver is missing ......." <----which driver is it. I tried buring the chipset driver files to cd, but no luck.

Anyone having this problem? Using 160ssd+250gb drive combo.

Thanks

 

Perfect! That's exactly what I was looking for. No luck at RadioShack and the guy at the Apple store told me to buy one of his headsets ($60).

 

As I've mentioned earlier in this thread: Don't do a fresh install. It's pointless and the only thing it can give you is trouble. Unless you have a problem you're trying to solve.

 

That's actually a problem - I have to run Win7 Enterprise for various reasons so I'll need to find a way to do a fresh install.