HP Envy 17 - coming to the US in May 2010

The CPU isn't vastly better than what a laptop can do. Looking at real life benchmarks, the i7-920XM beats C2Q extreme desktop processors from the last generation which was only, what, a year ago? You can save a few seconds from tasks by using high-end modern desktop CPUs, but in general, mobile CPUs were never that far behind. I actually remember a time when people were putting laptop CPUs in their desktops because laptop CPUs were faster.

Your GPU is faster than the fastest laptop GPU, but twice as fast? Hardly. Your desktop 4890 gets about 10100 GPU score on Vantage, while a laptop 5870 gets ~8900. Sure it's faster, but not twice as fast. So with your uber desktop system, you have maybe a 20% speed increase over a laptop like the G73JH.

Two things that have been closing the gaps between laptop and desktop are the fact that the best harddrives in the world are in 2.5" form factor rather than 3.5" and that external harddrives are as fast as internal ones with USB3.0 and eSATA. Laptops like the G73JH and Envy17 can hold SSDs in RAID 0... My Envy15 boots and shuts down Windows 7 faster than my roommate's much higher-powered desktop because of the SSDs.

And honestly, my old M17x (core 2 duo) could run Fallout3, L4D2, Modern Warfare 2, and other modern games at highest settings and 1080p with 60 fps. It doesn't matter once you get to 60 fps, your monitor probably doesn't output frames any faster. Of course there are games like Crysis that kills everything, which brings me to my next point.

Desktops have a place if you want slightly cheaper components that are better, but in terms of real-world performance, you won't see HUGE gains unless you're dropping more money than a gaming laptop. Which is why I mentioned earlier that the main use for desktops is the extremely hardcore/high end power users who like to triple-SLI their rigs, overclock with liquid cooling, then benchmark and play Crysis.

Oh and yes you have 4 HD slots and more optical drives. Most people rarely use optical drives (although having two helps with copying DVDs, but who does that anymore?) and a laptop like the Envy15 can have 2 USB3.0 external drives and an eSATA external drive too, combined with its 2 SSDs. Sure it's not as portable, but desktop users can't claim to be any more portable.

To bring this back on topic, I mention that desktops are becoming obsolete because laptops, in real world tests, can be just as good as desktops. The Envy17 is a VERY good example, it really shows what is possible in a mobile form factor.

 

For the ~$1100 my MSI GX640 cost, I could've gotten a desktop with a Core i5-750, Radeon HD 5850, and a 1TB HDD (screen included). That's compared to the i5-430M, Mobility Radeon HD 5850, and 500GB HDD in my laptop, and it works out to approximately twice the CPU power, twice the GPU power, and twice the hard drive space.

 

The Envy 17 is very appealing to a college student like me who has to fly 500 miles back home. Either that or I need to drive 18 hours. If I can get even half the power of a full fledged desktop in a laptop, then it's all the better for me. I'll invest in a desktop once I actually settle down somewhere.

 

So....
The HP Envy flash site says you have a choice between the 5830 and 5730 for the 15.. so I wonder when that's coming out. Can't really call in to sales since I'm in the UK and they're still selling the first gen stuff.
But the Envy 17 page doesn't say they're offering a 3D screen? I would've thought they'd be bragging about it every chance they get.

 

I love my desktop, the E190t. It runs lightning fast, but yes my Envy 15 boots and shuts down faster, loads files in Photoshop faster, generally seems to run much faster in some contexts due to the SSDs, in other contexts, I can't really notice the difference. With huge (1-2GB) poster-sized files in Photoshop, illustrator, etc., the Envy is simply a beast. I have never had any experience remotely like this working on a laptop.

However, the time it takes to complete certain tasks related to video encoding, blu-ray authoring, and vfx rendering when working in Avid Media Composer, Net Blender, After Effects, is a bit shorter on the desktop, even though it has hard drives instead of SSD. I look forward to seeing the result when I upgrade the desktop to SSD. In the office, my co-worker has upgraded their Mac Pro with SSD and the difference was night and day.

 

Here is a previously posted HP link that touts 3D in the Envy 17. No other details yet that I am aware of, altho the CSR confirmed it.

HP® Official Store —Buy HP Laptops, Notebook PCs, Printers, Desktop Computers, Handhelds, Scanners, Monitors, and Calculators direct from HP

 

Not sure if this has been posted. Another video of the Envy 14 and 17

YouTube - HP ENVY 14 and ENVY 17 hands-on

 

couple reaction:

1) why the nicer screen on the 14 as opposed to the 17? do they think people dont want nice screens on 17 inch?

2) he actually grunted when he picked up the 17 inch because it was so heavy. Hey HP take it down a half pound

3) He spent a bunch of time of the 17 being able to display on multiple monitors. man, do the bulk of customers care about that?

It still looks like a great laptop...just too heavy, and screen not as nice as a macbook pro and no switchable on the 17 which is a beguilingly stupid choice.

 

Is there are reason that all the guys in the videos seem to be in love with the envy 14 but barely even want to show/talk about the envy 17? I mean in all the vids I have seen so far, they are picking up the envy 14, showing it from every angle, opening it up to show the battery and how you can access the hard drive easily from there, then talking all about the envy 14's battery life and showing the slice battery that fits onto it.
But not even a mention of battery life for the 17 or what it has for extended battery option(s) (like the one in the pictures that sicks out).

 

What do you think is going to sell more the 14 or 17? If you answers this you lnow the reason

 

I have to say I think you have absolutely nailed it on all points. Strangely enough there is only one other PC maker that makes such utterly counter intuitive product content decisions: (hint: starts with "AP" and ends with "PLE"). Biggest difference is that Apple's customers think they can do no wrong, while we HP partisans keep wondering: will they ever get it right!!

I think we have to give HP a nod on this Uber-refresh - it's more like a reinvention of a pc notebook product line by a company that, with all it's shortcomings, was doing quite well in the market place with the products they had, and probably could have held market share and grown profits modestly by just a few cosmetic changes and some new internal hardware. Someone on the inside , probably someone new, had to have said: "these products and our consumer perceptuals are deplorable; fix them both, NOW!" Taken as a whole with the Pavillion lineup makeover, it's the most extraordinary product initiative I have ever seen in this - or virtually any other - consumer electronics market segmentsd. They can so easily fix the miscues such as those you cite on the 17 if indeed they are detrimental to HP's overall success. I see evidence of a "grand plan" here, and it may be that they don't want to lose 14 buyers to 17s by making switchable graphics available. That may be why they singled out the 14 for the best screen: make it the showpiece, the volume leader. But make the 17 for the segment that will not be satisfied with the lesser gpu and smaller screen - and probably don't give a rat's butt about the color gamut of their screens, which will still be extraordinary based on the existing Envy 15! Well, I'm really just guessing here, but I do think you have to look at this major revamping of a product line as a whole strategic plan, not just question some feature decisions on individual products.

As an aside, and mostly an aside (but see below for a different take), I too wonder too about this obsession iwth multiple screens, even on the 14; almost sounds like someone's son-in-law's market research consultancy got hired and they reported that HP has a huge underserved market they can own: consumers, who will pay a grand or two for a great computer, then double that for three external monitors so they can set them all up on a 6 foot long table in their house and play games across 3, even 4 monitors including the laptop's!

So, HP will have, like 90% market share (or will it be 100%?) among consumers who must have 3-4 screens running simultaneously, but in a consumer market, not a commercial one where, for example, a retail store chain may want to run multiple monitors off the same video loop in their stores. Maybe this is mostly gimmicry, for demos and commercials showing that you can do this with our reasonably priced consumer laptops (3 HD monitors and 6 foot table sold separately ), or maybe it represents misspent R&D and product development resources since consumers would sure rather have USB3 ports across the line (and, by the way, what happened to ExpressCard slots? They seem to have vanished altogether from specs I have seen. But again, HP appears to be demonstrating that they have the design/manufacturing power and flexibility to make incremental changes on the fly just by virtue of the amazing array of selections within the models it's releasing over the next couple of months. And maybe they added the mini-display port (the other two would have been there anyway) just to show they could, and/or to show that they could wipe away the one advantage the MBP 15 and 17 otherwise had to themselves: bragging rights for the biggest, highest resolution external monitors supported.

As you can probably tell, I am really jazzed about this "event" in the consumer notebook market - I mean, I didn't choose my handle without reason! But I am really looking forward to 2 things I will be watching very closely: the success of the HP rollout, especially the initial quality of the products, and the competitive response. My advice: if you don't have to replace or upgrade your laptop right now, wait a few months. It's going to be fun and I think we are about to see most of our wishes fulfilled, and at very reasonable prices.

One last thought to ponder: Apple will probably do 50% of HP's sales revenue in the notebook computer segment, and likely make more profit, selling 3 models of Macbook Pros with, maybe 5-6 options/upgrades for each of the 3 models than HP will make selling, like, 15+ models with an average of 20 options per model. And it probably cost them less than 5% the engineering/design resource to "refresh" the product line for 9 months to come than HP has just spent to totally revamp its line. That, my friends, is a case study in the power of branding and the value of something they call "brand equity" in marketing circles. In the business world, you want to be Apple, not HP, even if in your personal finance you'd be better off choosing to buy HP's products. Same goes for their stocks. Mosey on over to your favorite business site and compare the share price increase over the past 12, 24, 48, months for Apple vs. HP and take a gander at their respective price/earnings ratio (for the uninitiated, that number is like a "report card" for the company's future. I haven't looked lately, but HP's is probably about 11 and Apple's about 24.)

Yeah, this is going to be fun!

 

I have to say I think you have absolutely nailed it on all points. Strangely enough there is only one other PC maker that makes such utterly counter intuitive product content decisions: (hint: starts with "AP" and ends with "PLE"). Biggest difference is that Apple's customers think they can do no wrong, while we HP partisans keep wondering: will they ever get it right!!

(Note: what follows is a piece of an article I am writing for several blogs and publications. I thought it might be topical in this thread, but if you don't particular want to read my personal perspective on HP's moves and what it portends for the consumer notebook mar ket segment, by all means, skip it and move on to the next post. On the other hand, I would be very interested in the opinions of readers of this thread of my assessments. Feel no need to be gentle!)

I think we have to give HP a nod on this Uber-refresh - it's more like a reinvention of a pc notebook product line by a company that, with all it's shortcomings, was doing quite well in the market place with the products they had, and probably could have held market share and grown profits modestly by just a few cosmetic changes and some new internal hardware. Someone on the inside , probably someone new, had to have said: "these products and our consumer perceptuals are deplorable; fix them both, NOW!" Taken as a whole with the Pavillion lineup makeover, it's the most extraordinary product initiative I have ever seen in this - or virtually any other - consumer electronics market segment.

They can so now much more easily fix the miscues such as those you cite on the 17 if indeed they are detrimental to a product's success. (I base that prediction on the way they have managed this new product rollout and the simple truth that there is no component or feature set that might be needed in a given product that isn't already engineered and installed in a similar form factor in another of their products.) I see evidence of a "grand plan" here, and it may be that they don't want to lose 14 buyers to 17s by making switchable graphics available. That may be why they singled out the 14 for the best screen: make it the showpiece, the volume leader. But make the 17 for the segment that will not be satisfied with the lesser gpu and smaller screen - and probably don't give a rat's butt about the color gamut of their screens, which will still be extraordinary based on the existing Envy 15! Well, I'm really just guessing here, but I do think you have to look at this major revamping of a product line as a whole strategic plan, not just question some feature decisions on individual products.

As an aside, and mostly an aside (but see below for a different take), I too wonder too about this obsession iwth multiple screens, even on the 14; almost sounds like someone's son-in-law's market research consultancy got hired and they reported that HP has a huge underserved market they can own: consumers, who will pay a grand or two for a great computer, then double that for three external monitors so they can set them all up on a 6 foot long table in their house and play games across 3, even 4 monitors including the laptop's!

So, HP will have, like 90% market share (or will it be 100%?) among consumers who must have 3-4 screens running simultaneously, but in a consumer market, not a commercial one where, for example, a retail store chain may want to run multiple monitors off the same video loop in their stores. Maybe this is mostly gimmicry, for demos and commercials showing that you can do this with our reasonably priced consumer laptops (3 HD monitors and 6 foot table sold separately ), or maybe it represents misspent R&D and product development resources since consumers would sure rather have USB3 ports across the line (and, by the way, what happened to ExpressCard slots? They seem to have vanished altogether from specs I have seen. But again, HP appears to be demonstrating that they have the design/manufacturing power and flexibility to make incremental changes on the fly just by virtue of the amazing array of selections within the models it's releasing over the next couple of months. And maybe they added the mini-display port (the other two would have been there anyway) just to show they could, and/or to show that they could wipe away the one advantage the MBP 15 and 17 otherwise had to themselves: bragging rights for the biggest, highest resolution external monitors supported.

As you can probably tell, I am really jazzed about this "event" in the consumer notebook market - I mean, I didn't choose my handle without reason! But I am really looking forward to 2 things I will be watching very closely: the success of the HP rollout, especially the initial quality of the products, and the competitive response. My advice: if you don't have to replace or upgrade your laptop right now, wait a few months. It's going to be fun and I think we are about to see most of our wishes fulfilled, and at very reasonable prices.

One last thought to ponder: Apple will probably do 50% of HP's sales revenue in the notebook computer segment, and likely make more profit, selling 3 models of Macbook Pros with, maybe 5-6 options/upgrades for each of the 3 models than HP will make selling, like, 15+ models with an average of 20 options per model. And it probably cost them less than 5% the engineering/design resource to "refresh" the product line for 9 months to come than HP has just spent to totally revamp its line. That, my friends, is a case study in the power of branding and the value of something they call "brand equity" in marketing circles. In the business world, you want to be Apple, not HP, even if in your personal finance you'd be better off choosing to buy HP's products. Same goes for their stocks. Mosey on over to your favorite business site and compare the share price increase over the past 12, 24, 48, months for Apple vs. HP and take a gander at their respective price/earnings ratio (for the uninitiated, that number is like a "report card" for the company's future. I haven't looked lately, but HP's is probably about 11 and Apple's about 24.)

Yeah, this is going to be fun!

 

Why does the MBP13 have a nicer screen than the MBP15 or 17? Why does the iPad have a nicer screen than any laptop? Why do smartphones have OLED screens, but laptops don't?

I don't know the answer to these questions, but it might have to do with manufacturing processes, new technologies, or something else. But it seems that smaller screens tend to be better.

Cause the guy was like 70. I can't believe all the whining in this thread about a sub-8 lb 17" laptop.

Probably not, but it's a feature that I don't think any other laptop has. So he could go on and on about how it has an i7 like every other laptop, or he could discuss a unique feature. What makes more business sense?

The screen is probably just as nice as the MBP 17" and 15", but not as nice as the MBP 13" or the iPad. And we don't know for sure if it doesn't have switchable graphics, but it's something they haven't advertised really.

 

Just some notes to consider before posting these thoughts to your multiple blogs:

Dell/Alienware has been using displayports on their laptops for at least a year now. I'm not sure about any other companies, but Apple hasn't had a monopoly on displayport for a while.

Apple has 5 laptops: Air, macbook, mbp13, 15, 17. But you're probably right in that Apple spends so little on refreshing the product line: they do extremely small incremental updates once a year or so. People still buy it because it has an Apple on the back.

Apple doesn't produce netbooks and their highest powered laptop is child's play compared to what HP offers. Apple essentially caters to the casual computer user and students. HP offers solutions for people who only need the internet, people who casually use computers, people who game on their laptops, and people who need mobile workstations, and everyone in-between. But I think the Envy14 will be a good competitor to both the MBP13 and 15, and the Envy17 will best the MBP17 in every way except battery life, if the lack of switchable graphics is true.

 

child's play? take it easy on the hyperbole. the only thing these HPs will do decidedly better than anything Apple sells is gaming. most other things will be a wash and the benchmarks we've seen on the components in question bare that out.

and overall construction quality. and touchpad. and display resolution. and gesturing. and keyboard quality. and materials used. and OSX. and matte screen option.

other than that, I agree. USB 3.0, quad-core options, better cooling, 1.8x better GPU, user-replaceable batteries, 2 natural HDD bays, support for 3 monitors, possible 3D support.

I look forward to finding out about the battery life. the fact that they've not said *anything* about it, while touting 7+7 for the 14 makes me hella skeptical that I'll see the numbers I want to see there.

I'm now leaning towards the MBP 17", but the Envy 17 can certainly get my money if the price and battery life are right and the construction isn't as cheap and problematic as past Envy's.

to the victor goes the dollars.

 

And anything requiring intensive CPU usage, as MBPs only have dual core CPUs vs the Envy quad cores. And anything with CUDA or OpenCL, both of which are becoming more common. And anything with intensive HD reads due to RAID. So essentially, everything that isn't trivial like watching a movie.

My Envy15 has zero problems aside from design features I don't like. My MBP13 had two hardware faults that required exchanges or repairs at Apple.

From hands-on reviews, the new touchpads on the 14 and 17 are much better than the Envy15's, which means it's either very close, or just as good as a macbook's.

Display resolution is not a better or worse. In 1920x1200 vs 1920x1080, I'd actually rather have 1920x1080. Why? Because when I plug my laptop into a modern external monitor or HD TV, I'll get the exact same resolution that I normally do. And when watching HD movies, 1080 aspect ratio screens show far more actual video than 1920x1200 screens do. But if you don't watch a lot of tv/movies and do a lot of text editing, I can see how someone would prefer 1920x1200. But I've had laptops with both and I prefer 1080p.

I've never actually used gestures on my MBP besides two-finger scrolling and pinch-to-zoom, both of which the Envy line does decently.

The keyboard quality? Really? I see zero difference between the envy and macbookpro keyboards, and I them both on my desk right now.

Materials used, I would probably give that to the MBP line, as unibody aluminum is pretty nice, although somewhat bland. The laser-etching on the Envy certainly gives it a unique look and theoretically better cooling.

OS X? I don't really want to argue the merits of windows vs os x here, but honestly, they're both good OSs. What matters is what applications you need to run. Windows generally has more of a selection of quality apps. But both computers can run both OSs.

Matte screen - yeah, I'm glad manufacturers have decided to offer these screens again as a "feature." My Envy has a matte screen, maybe the 17 will have that option too, but who knows?

 

Pretty much what Koshinn said. I have older MBP 15 and 17 and had an Envy 15 b4 returning it (due to HP screwing up the order and negating the Bing 20%). A colleague recently bought the new MBP 15 and I was surprised at how close the two machines now are. Yes, I would still say the overall build quality of the Mac is better, but not by a wide margin. And the new HPs look like another step up. Same w/ OS....Win7 64 is close enough.

I wouldn't consider a new MBP 17. For what I do, the Envy 17 i7 w/ SSD and big disk is much more powerful. And don't discount the 3D wildcard. I will probably be stupid enough to pay for that if it's even half decent, just to see Avatar again in 3D.

 

What Koshinn said. Overall construction quality is about equal for both. Touchpad will be similar if both are used in Windows. OSX is not better than Windows 7. Materials in Envy are more sturdy than what's used in MBP, but not by much. Keyboard quality is exactly the same for both, and some people have said they like it better. Display resolution is a matter of preference. Matte option, well we don't know about that yet, but it will likely be offered. MBP has battery life tho

 

I dont know about the MBPs, but the reason why the Envy 13 & 14 have the Radiance Infinity displays while the rest of the Envy line does not, is because they could not reliably enough (w.r.t. cost, waste, etc...) manufacture enough of them at sizes larger than those models allowed for at the time. The same could be said for OLED technology as well.

 

we'll see about that. by the accounts I've read, they've not been equal yet. Everything else is speculation.

depends on what measure you're using. It certainly appears that OSX is a bit easier on battery life, no?

in what way? that unibody appears damn sturdy. If we were talking about the Elitebook line, I'd agree. But the Envy? more "sturdy" than a MacBook Pro?

is it? I think if given the option between the 2 if priced equally, I'd take the extra vertical resolution every time.

judging by the 16:9 protest thread here at NBR, there are some pretty strong feelings on the matter.

Personally, I'm looking forward to even higher resolution. I'd like to put a pair of 1024px width windows next to each other. here's hoping for 2048 width one day.

 

OSX seems better about battery life, because Macbooks have oversized batteries. The Timeline X series from Acer gets 8 hours of usable life using Windows 7 with a significantly smaller battery than the huge 73 whr batteries in the MBP. And apparently Snow Leopard causes a decrease in battery life from Leopard according to this extensive article I read. I think it was from Anantech, but I'm not sure.

And your right it does depend on the user, that's why I said OS X isn't better than Windows 7, not that Windows 7 is better.

Well I say more sturdy because The Envy has aluminum backed up by a magnesium chassis. Sounds sturdier than only aluminum that's only used in the MBP's. HP rep in a video on youtube stated (of course I take this with reserve, it's an HP rep, not an independent source) the Envy 14 is one of the most durable and rugged notebooks due to the materials used.

And about the aspect ratio, well, NBR isn't everyone and casual consumers I know really don't care. I understand why you don't like it though. Your work takes kindly to real estate. For most people, it is a matter of preference.

And 2048? lol. That's just too much for me

 

To be honest, even with switchable graphics the envy 17 running windows is not going to touch a mbp17 and osx for battery life, the mbp 17 running windows is not going to touch the same machine running osx.

So yes, if battery life is your primary concern, the envy 17 is not going to win out. On EVERY other metric, the envy 17 wins, save perhaps weight.

The screen will in all likelihood be the same as on the envy 15 with 300 nits of brightness, that is a very good screen.

storage options are superior, optical drive options are superior, cpu options are superior, graphics standard option is VASTLY superior.


Design is a wash in my view, talk of build quality is anecdotal, where the arguments rest on presumptions of superior apple quality. I don't presume. One of the videos had one of the project leads specifically mention working with synaptics to improve the touchpad and software. We will see, but the assumption that there is a vast apple edge there is baseless. We just don't know yet.


What we do know, is the the envy 17 is far more powerful, does not needlessly leave off features (blu ray anyone?), with less battery life. If your main concern is battery life, then by all means, get the mac. Aside from that, it is a lesser machine in all other respects, and at a MUCH higher base pricepoint.

It is interesting to see the people who use failed envy models of the past to assert the same will be true about future models. As if any company wants a situation where a large percentage of their units are defective. If the basis for an argument that a mac machine is better because a rival will break down, then I agree. A working mbp is better than a broken envy. A working toaster is better than a broken envy. Some of us want comparisons where things are on their best footing, where the presumption is that both work as designed.

HP has a winner here, and if people looked at what they were getting from a neutral lens as opposed to a brand affinity/reputational standard where apple is given by default a presumption of superior build and quality, the envy would walk this.

 

swtichable graphics isn't just about battery life. it's also about heat generation. nobody wants a nuclear reaction on their lap. not to mention if yoi use your laptop a lot, the wear and tear on the board.

wrt issues around OS and windows..i see that a lot on mac boards too. that is a meaningless argument since you can put whatever you want on it.

on the screen..the comparion is to the mbp. on the one hand you get .3 inches of extra screen..on the other..the resolution is a huge loss. that's a lot of loss of screen space.

i have the new mbp april 2010...i only have run mac os on it once.

 

you're suggesting the MBP's GPU won't support CUDA?

Notebookcheck: NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M

Benchmark comparison: i 5 MBP (256MB VRAM, Bootcamp'd) vs. quad core Envy 15. PC Magazine

Show me the blow-out. I see a < 7% difference between them in any benchmark...and the quad-core Envy 15 beats the 256MB 330M by 15%.

more benchmarking: Apple MacBook Pro Spring 2010 (Core i7 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 15-inch) Laptop reviews - CNET Reviews

buh buh...teh running circles around teh lowly MBP.

At some point, you're going to have to let the hyperbole go or otherwise just stop being dishonest. It makes me lose respect for you, as you are usually well-articulated commentary than anything else. it's like some fanboy warrior emerged out of you. put it back in the cage. It makes it impossible for us rational types to have meaningful discourse.

Never before have I seen anyone on NBR casually dismiss the i5 and i7 dual core processors. In fact, a quick visit to the Hardware discussion forum shows the complete opposite analysis. Most applications being optimized for 1 or 2 processors right now, *most* applications will benefit from the dual cores with virtual cores + higher clocks than quads. You should know that well. the i5/i7 dual cores are not something to thumb your nose at...much less suggest they're better than little more than "watching a movie". That, quite frankly, is fu*king stupid. And you're not talking to stupid people.

Drop the hyperbole or stop replying to my thoughts. kthanks.

this is not about your personal experience and you should be pretty clear on the reality that you can't just take your singular experience, extrapolate it, and apply it to all experiences. I've read through the threads with my own eyes. I'm really happy for you that YOUR Envy 15 has had no problems. Others have. I'm not going to disregard everyone else's problems because your experience has been good. Buying computer hardware is and will continue to be a bit of a roll of the dice. Trick is finding out where the problems lie and watching out for them.

pure speculation.

and considering that nobody has really rivaled the MBP's touchpad in terms of functionality, why you'd somehow gleam off the top that what was considered a poor touchpad to start with now being "better" somehow means it's now "very close or just as good as a mackbook's" is beyond my realm of understanding.

consider all the bad appraisals of the current Envy 15 touchpad:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/5818139-post106.html

HP now shipping select Envy 15 models with USB 3.0 -- Engadget

HP Envy 15 with i5 (Preliminary) Review Expert Laptop Review

HP Envy 15 review including features, specs, performance. | Hovers.org

HP Envy 15 Review - Review of the HP Envy 15

and from my persona experience with similar touchpads from HP, most of the multitouch feels weird or not particularly responsive, and as such I'd probably use the features sparingly.

if you need more examples (links), I'll be happy to provide. If they improved on that, it probably means it's less jumpy or more responsive when using two fingers (resting one finger on the left-click while moving the right finger may no longer confuse the touchpad, for example) and the 3 or 4 multi-touch features work a bit better. those features feel useful, but ultimately a bit mediocre when compared to the recent revisions to the MBP's multitouch interface:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT321

I did not appreciate the difference until I tried it for myself. it's very hard to go back to sub-par touchpads.

That just sounds silly. I've never, ever...not once...heard of someone having a problem adjusting to the loss of 120 pixels when connecting to their television. Nor have I heard people really wanting their *computers* to emulate their *televisions*. They've had different form-factors for years now because they serve different purposes. But do you. nothing wrong with 16:9 (my Vaio was 1080p).

I agree, you get a few % more video watching. Considering I watch movies on my computer on the order of like...12 times/year...I can't say it matters to me personally. YMMV. I use my desktop computers to feed my DNLA-enabled television, so watching on my computer is rarely a need of mine. But that's just me. I can understand people like college students, who have to place a premium on space--being happier with 16:9, so long as the screen quality is good.

? sweet jesus...that's damn near sig-worthy. a true first.

after playing with the multi-touch MBP trackpad for 20 minutes at the Apple Store, I can't imagine not using the 2, 3 and 4-finger swipes on a regular basis. constantly. but as with any extra feature on a computer, YMMV. I also can't imagine people listening to 192kbs mp3 files when 320kbps mp3 and FLAC are so superior, so go figure.

but really, I had no idea that a trackpad could be as helpful as I found the MBP's trackpad to be. I'd never used one before a few days ago and was greatly impressed.

yes, keyboard quality.

HP Envy 15 Review - Review of the HP Envy 15

vs.

Apple MacBook Pro 15-inch (Core i7) Review - A Review of the Apple MacBook Pro 15-inch (Core i7)

just sayin'.

I hear you on that. Personally, I'm not a fan of the laser etching. at least, based on the pictures. I might like it a lot more in person. I am just usually hesitant to buy computers that come with "creativity built in" so to speak. I like the idea of being able to customize if I want. idk. not a deal-breaker by any stretch, but something I'd also approve of the MBP for.

all 4 of my current computers are running Windows 7 and I love them all.

but from my research, it appears OSX runs more efficiently. machines seem to start faster and load apps marginally faster. under-equipped MBP's seem to have no problem competing with or in some cases beating better-equipped PCs in benchmarks. all while retaining significantly better battery life and superior weight. $400-$800 more? that's in the eye of the beholder.

well...here's hoping. But I can't remember the last time HP offered a matte screen option on a desktop replacement-size laptop.

E2E glass is a deal-breaker for me if it's anything like the MBP's glass. I wouldn't even consider a MBP if it only offered a glass screen. After enjoying my Vaio AW for a year with it's magical matte screen...anything with glass is a backwards step.

but I've never seen glass as "reflective" as the glossy MBP. if the HP is glossy but not as glossy as the MBP, I might be able to work with it. My Dell E1705 laptop has a glossy screen...but it's not a mirror like the MBP is. I could feel confident enough to shave with a straight razor with the reflection in the MBP.

Keep in mind, I don't own a Mac and have never owned one. I've not used a Mac for more than 2 hours since...the summer of 1997 during a pre-college course on HTML programming (using Macs + Netscape Navigator!). I have nothing to lose either way and have been closely following the Envy 17, 8740w, and 17" MBP for months now. I'm just hoping for as much objectivity as I can have, as $2000+ is a lot of money to spend. I've had good experiences with HP (my elitebook is a champ). I've had bad experiences with HP (their customer service has to be among the very worst I've ever experienced...they lost my fathers' computer for a month while replacing the chipset...and they tried to get my mother for hundreds for a "bad GPU/chipset" on her DV6000...which has been running for months without problem after I installed Win7.

In summary: less hyperbole, more fact. and the facts say you've been more over the top and heavy-handed towards the 17" MBP than statistics warrant. Both are similarly capable machines with pros and cons to each, relatively speaking. Whether $400-$800 premium on the MBP is worth the price of admission is purely a function of whether or not it's "pros" are meaningful enough for you. There may be fewer and fewer "pros" when we get some benchmarks of the new Envy 17...but we won't know for another few weeks one way or the other.

 

Wait so are you saying that you are having nuclear reactions on your lap with your new mpb april 2010 because you are only running windows on it and there isn't switchable graphics support, and that the envy 17 could have the same problem(nuclear reactions on lap) because it doesn't have switchable graphics support either? Or were those two sentences not related?

 

I'm sure the cooling on the Envy 17 will be superb. HP will not make that mistake again.

 

I can almost guarantee they will. why?

1) the kept the dvd drive so no extra cooling
2) the 5850 has a higher tdp than even the 5830.

if they had switchable graphics, it would run a lot cooler.

we'll see..but i bet its going go be problematic

 

Well remember HP redesigned the internals to accommodate more efficient cooling but yes, you do have a valid concern. After all, it is a quad core i7, 5850, all in a metal case that is 1.2 inches thin.

 

again, what the fanbois want and what the manufacturers decide that they will get are often two different things.....

 

I am hardly a fanboi.
The thought of having to deal with HP support gives me the heebeejebeez. for me to buy HP it has to be perfect. I think they will get me in 18 months on my next upgrade

 

Typically, using older benchmarking software is much more favorable to lower tier graphics chips.

Here is a more modern comparison. Don't look at 3dmark 05, that is useless. Look at the average score in Vantage

Notebookcheck: NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M

Notebookcheck: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5830

The 5830 score is almost double the 330, this is not in the same league. It is a slaughter. Couple that with the fact that with a modest memory overclock on the 5830s you should see a decent boost in speed on games with settings turned up.



the i7 dual core is a very fast chip, it should turn in high numbers on cpu intensive tasks, but you are paying a hefty premium to get similar cpu speed in to envy that costs much less, and has M U C H better graphics power.

 

Yea I'm not sure where that 15% number came from. The 5830 and the 330 a worlds apart when it comes to real world gaming. The 5830 can handle most games at 1080p full settings or close. The 330 definitely cannot do that.

 

I can't agree with that on Envy 15, I do have very bad experiences on that and I returned two envy 15's, due to build quality. But we'll see what they do to 14 and 17, hope they really improved quality control, I will give another shot on 17 tho.

 

Sorry for your troubles. There will always be defects, for every brand of laptop. But most Envy 15 2nd gen Envy owners have had none or little problems with build quality. So yea duds are bound to happen.

 

Thanks dude, I know many people don't have quality issues, they are more lucky than me.
I think for envy 17, I will not wait for the coupons. My first envy 15 I got $300 off coupon, the quality did not satisfy me, the second one I used the $450 coupon, the quality is even worse... Probably those people don't have problems didn't use coupons?

 

I doubt it, that would be cruel by HP to sell the ones that are defective at a lower price without telling the customer.

 

I hope so, but the quad core i7 envy 15'' just gets scary hot. Nuclear reaction in the palm of your hand hot. The fact that they even thought it was ok to release the envy 15 with those heat levels has me skeptical that the 17 isn't going to have the same problems. I was in the mall yesterday by the microsoft store so I decided to pop in to just see how hot it actually gets. They had a quad core i7 envy 15 in there, and it had the battery slice attached. i opened 8 hulu videos at the same time to simulate a heavy workload, in whatever their default window size is, and then walked away for 5-10 minutes. When I came back, it felt warm but not hot on the bottom, and very warm on the middle and right palm rest area, and then very warm on the whole right side of the machine. But the whole upper left side of the machine was scorching hot, and the metal next to the leftmost row of keys and anywhere on the left side besides the actual keys. And I don't mean on the side, where the vent is i mean on the top where hands go (by the vent is even worse). My pinke finger slipped off the keyboard for a minute, and i think i heard it sizzle(ok not really, but it was the same feeling as putting your hand in coffee that is way to hot to drink). I then put my hand on the top left side of the computer to see how long i could hold it there and it was about 4-5 seconds before i had to take it off because i was starting to feel that stinging burning feeling. I brought one of the girl microsoft reps over to check it out, and told her to put her hand on the left side (heheh) and she physically jumped back, and yelped a muffled "ahhh".

So, I hope hp made some HUGe improvements in the heat area compared to the 15''. I'm holding my breath.

 

Was that a 2nd gen or first gen Envy?

 

According to: Hands On with the HP Envy 14 and Envy 17 | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

The Envy 14 and 17 are expandable to 8GB of RAM and run a switching graphics paradigm with an ATI discrete chip and Intel integrated graphics (No graphics switching with the quad-core configuration, though).

The Envy 17 does have switchable graphics according to this article. what do you think?

 

I'm not sure what to think. That's the only article that mentions it, and HP reps never said anything about battery life estimates for the Envy 17. They were quick to mention the 7 hour battery of the Envy 14, but were quiet about the 17. We will have to see. Here's hoping though.

 

Envy17 Power Performance Precision | HP Products & Services Videos

Envy 17 Promotion Video

 

HP Envy Notebook PC

HP Website of the whole Envy line.

 

Both ENVY notebooks feature powerful Intel® processors(1) and ATI™
Mobility Radeon high-definition (HD) 5830 discrete graphics for gaming,
videos and 3-D images. They come with a backlit keyboard, slot-loading
optical drive, HP TrueVision HD(2) webcam, a mini DisplayPort Connector
and the latest in wireless(3) and connectivity options.

It is what the Envy PR said.

 

Thanks tommy for the links.

 

I laughed when the guy with the sword came out... was that the intent? : |

 

Yes, with this web spot they are clearly going after the three most important consumer demographics for laptops - DJs, motorcycle drivers and samurais.

 

ANyone know if they'll offer the 620m on the 14 or 17?

 

sweet, but we're only 1/2 way to confrimation of 3D.

the display has to support it too. It has to be a 120Hz refreshing display.

If it has that...epic. well...for gamers, anyway.