I called HP and this is what they said;

This is just frustrating to deal with them, because their arguments are mostly either bogus or they cover basic stuff, even if you tell them you're a knowledgeable customer.

Note that I'm dealing directly with the case manager, because online help/email chains drove me crazy pretty quick.
He sent me a link to a page on CPU-world (he said that's it's coming from HP engineering!!!!)for Turion Ultra ZM-82 page that states that 100 Degrees C is the TdieMAX.
They interpretedthat into: Sir this is NORMAL for this CPU to run at 100 Degrees C if you game a little???

I was a little angry (understatement)...told him not to sent that stuff to customers anymore, but to rely only on AMD specs sheets in the future...(AMD clearly states that 100 degrees C is Temperature MAx for CPU DIE/chip... so no it's NOT normal for a laptop to reach close to that temp).

He said that AMD CPU-based HPs aren't meant for gaming at all, and he started recommending me Intel-based laptops with less powerful GFX chips that the one I got!
I'm like...so this is what you recommend me to get? He's like...yes this one is meant for gaming (with a GT220????lol)..and me to reply HOW come that Nvidia GFX chips scores much lower scores than the one I have (GT220m compared to Hd4650)??? They DON'T know their stuff...

Case manager also said that I should have searched the net before buying this HP laptop. That my laptop is NOT made to play any games.
And that the CPU is not meant to run at 100% more than a few seconds.......I'm like , you advertise the DV6 as an entertainment platform!!!!
So, without thinking, the case manager basically said that (not in these words) that I own an expensive paperweight/web surfer machine, that I shouldn't use my laptop for other stuff than light duties.

He also said that if I run 5 or 6 windows open in a browser, I'm abusing the machine!!! And that another cause of the overheating.

Of course they start with the obvious: Clean your vents, dust out the heatsink, which is NORmal, I don't blame they for that.

But when you come with really straight facts pointing towards design issues or overheating, all hell breaks loose.
You tell them you tried everything, and NO there is NO virus/trojan that hogs all CPU resources in the background ,YES you're using a lappy cooler...

The case manager is like: This computer is NOT meant to play games! And me to reply "how come there is a nice mid-range tier 2 gaming graphics card in it then???" And @how come you advertise this as an entertainment platform if the CPU goes to 78-82 Degrees celsius while jsut watching a DVD???
That keeps me entertained allright!

I said my goes to 92 Degrees celsius ,under HP Recommended power saver, with a laptop cooler ,at room temperature of 21 degrees celsius, when I game for 5-10 minutes!

And the case manager that its normal for my laptop to reach those temps because I game for hours!!!!

They just try to dodge as many bullets as they can.

 

no more monkeys jumping on the bed!

 

Well statiscly HP has the worst quality so...good luck Maybe you should have read this (you can find it here http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf) I put the the lil text that's about Hp in a fat lay out (don't know the proper english term).

1 in 3 Laptops fail over 3 years:
Netbooks fail 20% more than laptops; ASUS & Toshiba the most reliable
Synopsis: SquareTrade analyzed failure rates for over 30,000 new laptop computers covered by SquareTrade Laptop Warranty plans and found that one-third of all laptops will fail within 3 years.
Highlights of the study include:
-
Looking at the first 3 years of ownership, 31% of laptop owners reported a failure to SquareTrade. Two-thirds of this failure (20.4%) came from hardware malfunctions, and one-third (10.6%) was reported as accidental damage.
-
Netbooks are projected to have a 20% higher failure rate from hardware malfunctions than more expensive laptop computers.
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ASUS and Toshiba were the most reliable manufacturers, with fewer than 16% having a hardware malfunction over 3 years.
Citations and quotations of this paper’s contents require proper attribution to the source at http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/laptop-reliability-1109/. Commercial use of this paper’s contents are prohibited without prior written consent from SquareTrade, Inc.
For media inquiries, write or call Dan Wire at [email protected] or (415) 685-3132.
Prepared by:
Austin Sands & Vince Tseng
SquareTrade, Inc.
www.squaretrade.com
Nov. 16, 2009
© SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 1
Introduction: Laptop & Netbook reliability
Many consumers looking to buy electronics for their home and family will be looking at netbook computers this holiday season. Affordable and convenient, these smaller cousins of the standard laptop computer are the perfect gift for individuals who are constantly on the go. While early netbook models typically sacrificed essential functionality and components such as large hard drives and optical drives, by 2009 netbooks have achieved a feature-set maturity that has allowed them to fully compete with low-end notebook computers. Laptops have historically been among the most popular electronics gifts, and this year the netbook is especially attractive to shoppers operating on tight budgets looking for an inexpensive way to replace an aging computer.
In this laptop reliability report, SquareTrade examines the different aspects of laptop and netbook reliability. We start with an overview of laptop hardware failure rates, as well as failures caused by accidents. We then compare netbook failure rates to more expensive laptops and evaluate the relative reliability of several leading laptop brands.
This analysis examines customer reported failure data from a sample of over 30,000 new laptops purchased by SquareTrade customers over the past three years (see Appendix for sample details). SquareTrade offers warranty plans that cover accidental damage as well as standard hardware failures, and we consider malfunctions from normal usage (“malfunctions” separate from accidents (“accidents” in our analysis. We refer to “total failure rate” as the sum of failure rates due to malfunctions and accidents.
Among our conclusions, we find that the average total failure rate of laptops to be 31% over 3 years. While netbooks appear to malfunction slightly more than laptops, the lack of data on netbooks over a year old means that the results are far from conclusive. In terms of brands, ASUS & Toshiba stood out as the most reliable manufacturers; while Acer, Gateway & HP had failure rates significantly higher than the average.
Now let’s delve into the data and take a look at the numbers.
© SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 2
1 in 3 laptops fail over 3 years
We first examine the total failure rate of all laptops together. In Figure 1, we show malfunctions, accidents, and the total failure rate:
Figure 1. Malfunctions, accidents, and total laptop failure rates over 3 years. 7.2%19.7%31.0%4.7%12.7%20.4%2.5%7.0%10.6%0%5%10%15%20%25%30%35%1357911131517192123252729313335% of LaptopsFailingMonths since Item PurchaseLaptop 3 year Failure RatesTotal Failure RateMalfunction RateAccident Rate
The malfunction rate alone exceeds 20% at the 3 year mark. There is also a notable acceleration of malfunctions in the second and third years. While fewer than 5% of laptops failed from malfunctions in the first year, an additional 8% fail in each subsequent year. Accidents cause a further 11% of laptops to break over 3 yearsi, making the total failure rate nearly one-third of all units.
In SquareTrade’s experience, the 31% laptop total failure rate is higher than most consumer electronics. This comes as no surprise, given that laptops contain far more sophisticated mechanical and delicate electronic components than most other electronic devices. Keyboards, pointer devices, media drives and hard drives are all mechanical components that increasingly wear out when subjected to heavy use, while motherboard circuitry, memory and wireless devices are sensitive to heat and environmental factors.
Given that the typical laptop endures more use and abuse than nearly any other consumer electronic device (with the possible exception of cell phones), it is not surprising to see such high failure rates.
We next turn our attention to the relative reliability of Netbooks.
© SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 3
One year in – netbooks fail 20% more often than laptops.
We next turn our attention to netbook reliability, relative to that of entry-level and premium laptops. There is no exact definition for netbooks, aside from “cheap and light laptops”, and the definition has changed over the past 18 months as the devices have evolved. For the purposes of this study, we have defined netbooks as laptops purchased for less than $400, as that has been the traditional retail boundary for netbooks. We define entry-level laptops as those between $400 and $1000, and premium laptops as anything purchased for over $1000.
Although first introduced in late 2007 when ASUS released the first Eee PC, netbooks did not sell in significant volumes until Q4 of 2008, when they began to exceed 10% of the total laptop marketii. Consequently, we only have 1 year of significant data for netbooks, as shown in Figure 3:
Figure 3. Relative occurrence of laptop malfunctions in the first year. 5.8%4.7%4.2%0%1%2%3%4%5%6%7%123456789101112Failure RateMonths since Item PurchaseFirst Year Malfunction Rates: Netbooks vs. LaptopsNetbooksEntry‐level LaptopsPremium Laptops
We find 5.8% of netbooks to have a malfunction in the first 12 months, over 20% more than entry-level laptops and nearly 40% more than premium laptops. Note that this data excludes failures from accidents.
Using our overall 3 year trends shown in Figure 1 as a forecasting guideline, we show a rough estimate of failure rates at the 3 year mark in Figure 4:
© SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 4
Figure 4. Forecast 3 year malfunction rates, by laptop category. 25.1%20.6%18.1%0%5%10%15%20%25%30%NetbooksEntry‐level LaptopsPremium Laptops3‐year Projected Malfunction Rate by Price
In this rough projection, we expect netbooks to have a 25.1% malfunction rate, entry-level laptops to have a rate of 20.6%, and premium laptops to have the lowest rate at 18.1%.
To many consumers, an extra 1 in 20 chance of having a netbook fail is probably not going to be a deal breaker, as there are many factors other than reliability that should considered. But it is something to think about, especially given the lack of concrete data on netbook reliability beyond the first 12 months. © SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 5
ASUS and Toshiba, reliability winners
We next turn our attention to the relative reliability of different laptop manufacturers. Our study data includes 9 brands with a minimum of 1000 units, which is enough to give us a statistically significant look at the 2 year failure rates. Figure 5 shows the 3 year forecasted malfunction rates for the 9 brands (excluding accidental damage):
Figure 5. Laptop reliability, by manufacturer. 15.6%15.7%16.8%17.4%18.3%21.5%23.3%23.5%25.6%0%5%10%15%20%25%30%AsusToshibaSonyAppleDellLenovoAcerGatewayHPMalfunction Rate3 Year Laptop Malfunction Rates by Manufacturer2 year3 year projection
ASUS and Toshiba come out on top. With 3 year malfunction rates forecast to be under 16%, laptops from these two manufacturers are nearly 40% more reliable than Hewlett-Packard, the worst performer in our study. Sony and Apple also performed better than the average.
The industry leader HP, which shipped nearly 16 million laptops in the past year according to IDCiii, ranked dead last in our reliability study with over one-fourth of laptops expected to malfunction in 3 years. Gateway and Acer, the #2 maker of laptops, were also nearly as unreliable as HP, with an expected malfunction rate of over 23%.
© SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 6
Conclusions on laptop reliability
Given the high overall failure rates of laptops and sizeable difference in reliability by brand, reliability should be a concern for consumers shopping around for the best holiday deals.
While our study found netbook malfunction rates to be trending 20% higher than more expensive laptops, the variance between manufacturer is far greater and should be a bigger factor in making a buying decision. ASUS and Toshiba laptops failed just over half as frequently as HP, which makes them a solid bet in terms of reliability.
Given that netbooks have only really been around in volume for about 12 months, it will be interesting to see how their reliability plays out over the course of the next 12 months. SquareTrade will continue to monitor the progress and publish an update of laptop and netbook failure rates in 2010.
© 2009 SquareTrade, Inc. All rights reserved. SquareTrade and the SquareTrade logo are registered trademarks of SquareTrade, Inc. All other trademarks and service marks are the property of their respective owners.
© SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 7
© SquareTrade, Inc. | All Rights Reserved. | www.squaretrade.com 8
Appendix: Notes about the Data and Methodology Used
SquareTrade randomly selected over 30,000 laptop and netbook computers for this analysis. We included only items that were purchased brand new (i.e. not refurbished or used).
The following disclaimers apply to our data and analysis:
-
As there is no sharp line that divides the definition of a netbook and laptop computer, SquareTrade has used the price point of under $400 to define the netbook category in this analysis.
-
Only malfunctions reported directly to SquareTrade are included in the data. Other malfunctions, including software issues handled directly by the retailer, problems associated with product recalls, and those fixed by software/firmware updates, may not be represented in this data.
-
We did not take into consideration purchase location.
Limitations:
This document and all of its contents are provided as-is. SquareTrade has made efforts to ensure that the data and conclusions we present are correct, but makes no warranty, express or implied, about the accuracy of this data. If any material errors or inaccuracies should occur in this document, SquareTrade will, if feasible, furnish appropriate correctional notices which Users will accept as the sole and exclusive remedy at law or in equity. Users of the information in this document acknowledge that SquareTrade cannot be held liable for any loss, injury or damage of any kind, present or prospective, including without limitation any direct, special, incidental or consequential damages (including without limitation lost profits and loss of damage to goodwill) whether suffered by recipient or third party or from any action or inaction whether or not negligent, in the compiling or publishing this analysis or in delivering or communicating or publishing this document.
References
i 3 Year laptop accident rates are based on projections from 2 years of accidental damage data using a straight‐line projection.
ii See “Consumer Behavior Report: Netbook Trends and Solid State Technology Forecast.” PriceGrabber, January 2009. https://mr.pricegrabber.com/Netbook_Trends_and_SolidState_Technology_January_2009_CBR.pdf
iii Oct 15, 2009. http://www.allbusiness.com/company&...ncial‐performance/13226249‐1.html

 

^^Instead of repeating the same thing over and over again, you should really read some of the responses you have received to posting that little "gem."

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5635128&postcount=14

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5635652&postcount=15

Those are some very valid reasons.

 

I 100% agree, while MAY be accurate there really is no details so it can't be used in an arguement as they may only have used 30 sample cases. which means they would have a large margin of error.

 

Well, to be fair, Squaretrade used a sample size of 30,000 laptops. However, little information is provided as to which particular models aside from the brand.

 

Try undervolting. I have a TX2500 tablet with a Radeon HD3200 and ZM-80 (2.1GHz) CPU. It would go past 100DegC. I've undervolted and am very happy with the results. Never breaks past 70Degc now.

See this thread on NBR's sister site: http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showthread.php?t=21877

It works in Vista and Win7. I have used it in both. I have it running as a service.

 

sold over ebay only , so might not be the best sample .

 

the huy is FOS , my laptop runs 100% for the past 2 years 24/7 , never gets over 60c . try undervolting , replace the glop they put on your cpu with some arctic silver or ocz freeze , when i changed the cpu paste , which HP and Dell put on with a spatula . my temps dropped 10c , undervolting another 6-8 c . So far 2 years no trouble , and cleaning out the vents evry few months helps a lot ! Whenever i see temps creeping up a quick session with compressed air helps .
Other than that your laptop should be able to run at 100% all day , the rep is FOS !!!

 

My point is more to let you people know the kind of "interaction" you can expect with the people over at HP. Even with the "case managers", argumentation is more of a huge denial/damage control exercise than anything else.

For the stats, well, you can make numbers say what you want them to say.
HP sells more than others, so more failure obviously.

Anyway, yes I undervolt and get nice results out of it, but I'm still within the one year warranty, so I want so see if they do their part.

I'll wait for the warranty to be over before I re-apply thermal compound. I have a tube of Arctic Cooling MX-2 ready to go.

 

does replacing thermal paste void warranty ? I hope not , still have 1 year left !

 

People here in HP India are real clowns. They don't know even the basics of the basic stuff. I fought with them for a defective notebook for the last 2 months. And all I got from a case manager was that the notebook has to be deposited for the 5th time.

Apparently he also had dared me to say that I don't even figure in their 0.01% of the total sales. I laughed silently.

A big fall from Grace for HP I would say.

I really pity all those people who get connected to tech support in India.

 

2 of 3 HP laptops conked out on me.. dv2138xx & tx1000z both after 2 years of use. My tx2500z still works (cross fingers). HP laptops might look nice on the outside but the insides are junk. I don't do gaming either.

 

Yup, my point exactly. This is the reason why I don't accept the "100 degrees celsius is NORMAL". Components are wearing out faster and all.

Too bad, those laptops are loaded with features, but can't stand intensive use....nice to look at..from far away!

 

All that glitters is not gold.They look shiny and glossy but have some of the most faultily manufactured components inside. Buying from HP is not an investment anymore, it has become a liability.

 

agreed.. my next laptop is going to be a Clevo D900F... not some hp which can hardly keep the puuny components cool... whereas a clevo which can which keep a core i7 processor and GTX280M cool...

 

Got my laptop back from HP Canada...

Their cure for the CPU overheating...replace the HDD??? I don't get it.
The HDD was fine, never complained about it, and it's temps were fine. The CPU temperatures didn't changed one bit obviously.

I think the repair center HP contracts out to do repairs didn't find anything, reformatted the HDD and to get more money from HP, they swapped the HDD for a new one.Those repair centers must be payed in accordance with a chart with the type of repair that had to be performed.

Anyway, the installed the wrong version of Vista, now I'm stuck with Vista 32 bits on a lappy loaded with 4 Gigs of DDR2-800??? Windows only sees 3 gigs out of the 4...C'mon HP you CAN't be that STUP???

Now that image of Vista 32 that they installed on the HDD is loaded with stuff like HP GAMES!!! The case manager told me that this laptop wasn't meant for gaming!!! lolz ridiculous....But I lost my free Paintshop Pro Photo X2 that was bundled with my rig when I got it....

 

since when is buying a computer "an investment"??

 

I have the exact same laptop as you and my cpu is constantly running 95~.
you get what you pay for =/. I couldn't find a better laptop for under 1k Canadian so i don't mind the high temps that much(and probably the shortened life span).

 

Alright Cloud,

I still think you shouldn't run that CPU that close to TdieMAX (100 deg. C).
If it's constantly running that hot, there is more than one issue.

-Resource-hogging application running in the background?
-Comp running at MAX performance all the time? Even that should make it run that hot.

 

I meant constantly as in whenever I'm playing games. Which is what i use my computer for most of them time.

otherwise it idles in the 60's or 70's(I think, can't check right now since I'm playing mw2.)

 

@Cloud

Run HWMonitor in the background while playing MW2 to record max temperature achieve.
If you are on Griffin/Caspian Turions then undervolt them.
If you are able to dismantle the laptop without them knowing that you dismantled the machine then you can apply high quality thermal paste like MX-2 for better heat conductivity or even attach copper block to increase heat capacity and drop temperatures.

 

When u know that the machine you have bought doesn't make you feel being ripped off.

 

Not an investment, but the thing is seen like that in court:
-Whatever item you purchase must last a reasonable amount of time, in relation with it's price tag.

 

I am sure HP will be ready with a new definition of "reasonable".

 

my friend has an HP that runs crazy hot, he has had it 3years... not one issue, and he has the Nvidia 7150M which has know issues.

 

I meant that i couldn't check my idle temperature at the time.
I already know my max temperature, 96 when undervolted and just over 100 when not.

Don't want to bother using a copper mod, though i should probably buy some thermal paste to replace the default one.

 

I don't mean copper mod I meant copper blocks.
You can buy heatsink with adhesive at the bottom cut to size and attach it to the heat assembly to increase the overall heat capacity of the heat assembly.
Also you can try cutting holes at the bottom cover if you are out of warranty.
Also you can install RW-Everything and poke at the EC see if you can find the "switch" to activate the fan fullspeed.