Major issues with nc8430...I've got a lemon!

UPDATE 9/13/2007 @ 7:13PM :
I have been officially cleared for a replacement. Any system at $2249 or under is mine for the taking, now I just have to decide. Argh...why can't they use standard cards.

Does any one have benchmarks for the 8710p?

 

Guess that means you'll be posting a WNSIB FAQ


Edit: Notebookcheck has an excellent review of the 8710p, with all the benchmarks you could want. The graphics card is based on the 8700M-GT.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-Compaq-8710p-Notebook.4456.0.html

 

Greg I found these benchmarks on notebookcheck.net

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-Compaq-8710p-Notebook.4456.0.html

 

Yeah, I might be filling it out. Right now it is kind of a choice between the 8510p and the 8710p.

I also have the option to get a full refund, but right now I can't be without a computer. HP is willing to let me keep the nc8430 until I get my replacement notebook, which is something I can't do if I return this one and re-order a new one from somewhere else.

I keep staring at that review, and it does seem that the performance is aligned with the 8700M-GT...but I'd love to see a collaboration on this one.

Oh, and BTW my notebook keyboard works again following a system board replacement. However, bluetooth & fingerprint reader & touchstick do not work now...the HP tech said it was clearly a problem with the replacement motherboard. So yeah, my nc8430 is definitely approaching its final days.

 

UPDATE 9/13/2007 @ 10:51PM
Finally. Peace.

I just emailed HP Customer Relations with the final specifications of the laptop I want. The process was fairly simple (once I got to C.R.!) that basically involved HP giving me a $$$ limit from which I could pick any notebook that I wanted from the HP Compaq line. In my case, my funding limit was the cost of my original computer plus $200 for my troubles. This was all figured from before tax prices. So, since my list price for the nc8430 (Model: RB555UA) was $2049, I 'got' $2249 in laptop money to utilize.

So...this is what I asked to get. I can't upgrade individual components as the laptop does not have a 'Configure To Order' page for it, but this will easily to the trick. It is worth $2179 at their list price. The HP product pages list it at $1999, but then again I didn't exactly pay list price for my nc8430 either. In all reality, the money breaks about even no matter what.

But, here's the specs:

HP Compaq 8710p
T7300 @ 2.0GHz
2GB-667MHz DDR2 RAM (1x2GB configuration)
160GB @ 5400RPM Hard Drive
DVD+/-RW with Dual Layer and SuperMulti Support
17" WSXGA+ wide viewing angle BrightView
Intel 802.11a/b/g WiFi Card
nVidia Quadro 320M 256MB dedicated GDDRIII and 256MB Turbocache

I'm about 99.9% positive the 320M is a 8700M-GT in disguise. Dreamer, Chaz, and other websites have indicated as such and given me benchmarks that do reveal this card will be a significant upgrade to my X1600.

Overall, larger but slightly slower drive, slightly slower processor, and a much better GPU and a 17" screen to boot. I'd qualify that as a worth upgrade!

I'll know for sure tomorrow, but I don't think this is going to be a problem for HP.

 

Great that you finally got things resolved. But I thought the Quadro FX 1600M is the 8700 GT, not the NVS 320m...

Maybe they both are? That's kinda weird :\ The notebookcheck review seems positive though.

edit: I'm unable to type properly once again~

 

Yes, they both are. The Quadro NVS, Quadro FX, and Geforce M series' are all seperate (and usually parallel) lines, so it's quite possible to have the same chip appear in all three lines.

 

Time to get a new laptop bag 17" screens are wonderful.

 

Yeah, I may soon be selling all my 15.4" stuff and maybe some other stuff. I'm definitely waiting to do that though...I want to get the 17" notebook in my hands first.

Well, I haven't heard back from Michele (my case manager) yet today about my suggested laptop. From what I heard she might be out today, which means I'm probably looking at getting this approved on Monday.

 

I feel your pain.

Last year my GF needed a new machine, we elected to dump a desktop and go with a lappy. IMHO she would benifit from a tablet, we went to a few stores and sure enough she liked the tablet idea.
A little more searching and we settled on the TC4200.
More searching led us to a reseller and an order.

First machine arrived and had light leakage, but is was very minimal (compared to the severe light leakage on my brand new Lenovo T61P.)
A few days later the tablet (pen/screen/etc) stopped working.

HP support was useless on this. Very obvious foreign support who seemed to have had a computer described to them, but had never actually operated one. Their typical answer was 'reinstall the OS from the recovery CD'. Even when this was tried it was no help.
Finally I took it apart myself and discovered a broken wire where it went thru the screen swivel (a little rivet caught the wire every time nthe screen rotated.)

Luckily for us we were working with a somewhat inexperienced reseller and they sent a replacement...which had a processor installed which was NOT what was listed.
They sent us another...which was missing the bluetooth module.
They sent us another...which had a badly warped casing.

So here we sat with four (yes, 4 defective machines) on my desk.

I said 'fu(k it' took them all apart, made a pile of good parts and bad parts and built ONE machine that was good and put the other three back together and returned them. I also modified the hinge/rotation device so it couldn't break the wire again.

It's worked flawlessly ever since and according to her it's absolutely perfect for her needs and does everything she wants.
Final score
Design: A-
Quality Control: C-
Support: F
Reseller: A+


I'm now in a similar boat as you Greg. My Dell died a sudden death in May and I needed a new machine. Lenovo CS convinced me that the T61P would be perfect and would be available soon. soon. soon....finally in July one was available to order. Then they 'lost' the July orders. Lots of conflicting excuses. Finally after many many hours chasing them they 'fixed' the order and the machine arrives in September - DEFECTIVE.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10145&d=1188928170
http://forum.notebookreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10144&d=1188928170
What was to be the top of the line machine had the worst light leakage I've ever seen on a machine.
The primary excuse for lack of delivery was lack of screens. Clearly they were using any piece of junk they had to fill the order.
I immediately reported the defects and sent photos. They said ‘it appears that the screen is within our quality specifications, but you may send it in for inspection of you like.
Took them 7 days to pick the unit up (under the next day warranty), two more days and they report that it’s been damaged in transit (the screen by coincidence) and I had to PAY to get it replaced.

My first Lenovo experience has become: my lawyer getting involved, a dispute being filed with the CC company and the BBB and Attorney General getting involved. Not to mention a tremendous amount of my time wasted and still NO notebook. This has been my worst experience ever.


I’m considering moving on to the HP 8x10W (torn between the 5 & 7), though they are much more expensive. According to HP’s CS, the 5 is not configurable yet, but should be within the next week or two.
I’m very interested to hear how you feel about the portability of the 7, though I think it’ll be too big for my needs.

 

Everyone I have talked to has told me portability might be a problem. For goodness sake, it is a 17"...what do you expect???

Anyway, it is significantly lighter than the last 17" machine I owned (years back) so hopefully it will not be a big problem for me. One can only hope...

 

Yes, any 17" is probably not very portable.

A friend of mine has the 17" Dell. It's like 9.5lbs before adding in the massive power brick. Not at all portable.

The HP spec is 7.5lbs, but I still fear that it's not at all portable. I have plenty of desktops, don't need another

 

So, what made you settle on the 8710p and not the 8510p? Did you think that the 8510's build qualty was a little too low when you reviewed the 8510w, your poor experiences with your nc8430, or both?

Just be prepared to haul some more weight around

 

Couple of reasons actually...

1) Yes, I'm definitely worried about the build quality of the 15.4" given my nc8430 troubles.
2) When I reviewed the 8510w, it was a prototype so I guess any build complaints may not be an issue in the real model. But I was still worried...but #1 was the worst thing.
3) While I was offered an 8510p with identical specs (minus the slightly better GPU), I was hoping to get a little extra power so I could at least call it an upgrade somewhere. One of my options within my 'budget' was the 8710p with the NVS 320M (*couch* 8700GT *cough). I never use all 2.16GHz of my T7400 right now, so I don't mind going down to a T7300 now.
4) I just got a PDA, so that is almost going to 100% replace my mobile needs. So most of the time I'm hoping I won't need to carry my laptop around...thus thinking 17" might not be a bad idea.
5) Yes, I'm definitely worried about the build quality of the 15.4" given my nc8430 troubles.

 

UPDATE 9/14/2007:
I have been officially approved for the 8710p replacement. RIP nc8430!

 

Update 9/14/07:
I hate you, Greg.

 

So here's the deal...8710p is on backorder right now (oh well) so I'll probably get the notebook some time nearer the end of this month. ETA for the shipment is 9/27/2007 (worst case scenario).

 

My 8510p review is almost done so maybe I can put some of your fears to rest Greg, regardless of your end decision

 

Wow, tough luck man. Hope the rest of the issue gets sorted out with minimal stress!

 

Well the good news is that they already set up the order for the new one, bit I still need to get the order number from HP.

They also told me that moving my extended warranty to my new machine will not be a problem. If for some reason it is, they already promised to get me another warranty at no additional cost to me.

I was also able to confirm that I only have go return the original nc8430 notebook (Model RB555UA), so I'm keeping my 1GB RAM stick, my dockng station, and all the other stuff I bought...so I get to use it on my new machine.

 

Not a significant upgrade but I guess better than nothing.

 

Well, in graphics cards terms its a very significant upgrade.

 

A quadro fx series card is still faster. Hell even the GTX cards are faster. I wouldn;t bother for DX10 compatibility at this stage as by the time there are enough games/applications that utilize most of DX10 features there will be much more powerfull cards around.

 

It is kind of hard to get a much better notebook when you had one that was fairly powerful to start with!

Well, in all reality what can I do? I'd say it is okay, though yes I wish I could have gotten a little more out of it. Sure...I lost a little CPU power that I never used and I got a 5400RPM drive instead of my original 7200RPM. But I got a GPU that is more than twice as powerful if you go by the 3dMark scores (I know...synthetic benches do not tell all!), 60GB more hard drive space (my original drive which I have to return was 100GB@7200RPM), a larger screen, and hey...the notebook is new and isn't built from dying parts.

The only cards faster than the 8700GT (and equivalent 320M business card and 1 600M workstation card) are the cards based on the 7900GS, 7900GTX, and 7950GTX. And those are monster cards...I at least have SOME battery life with the new machine

 

Nope the 7900GS is less power hungry than the 8700GT.

 

Which one is more powerful overall though?, not including power consumption which you are correct about.

From what I'm reading about that cards 3dMark scores, the 320M should score higher by a few hundred points. So they're roughly equivalent, maybe with the 8700GT being a little faster.

Either way, blows the X1600 out of the water...and this card is my biggest catch of this notebook.

 

Actually the Quadro FX 1600M is the one based on the 8700M-GT.

The NVS 320m is 20W, same as the Go7900GS, I believe.

 

Don't believe people that say 17" laptops aren't portable. They are certainly portable, and they're getting lighter and lighter. It's only a bit bigger than a 15.4". If you already have something as big as a 15.4", my philosophy is go all the way and have a numpad (which I love very much).

I have yet to call HP. Isn't there a warranty on warranty repairs? Because they did not fix my notebook correctly, and their "repair" pushed my laptop past the warranty date.

 

The Quadro 320M, 8700GT, and 1 600M are all the same from what I'm hearing. Check Dreamer's charts in the GPU Guide, as well as on review from 'Notebook Check'.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-Compaq-8710p-Notebook.4456.0.html

 

I feel your pain a little greg. I bought the nc8430 with the same specs as you and i hate dealing with HP's support, it just takes forever to get anything done. Because of their horrible support they have, they lost over $50,000 in sales from me and i'll probably never buy a HP again.

 

They are still selling more laptops than anyone else so I suppose for every dissatisfied customer there are more that are happy compared to other companies.

 

They're only selling so much because you can walk into Wal-Mart and buy a Compaq with a DVD writer and a gig of RAM for around $500.

That doesn't mean they're selling because they're quality.

I was talking to the Fed Ex guy who dropped off my return box. He told me he has seen a ton of HP laptops going out for repair lately. Enough so that he'll never buy one.

I've had 2 in less than 2 years go bad on me. All they do is sit in a desk. Both have been defective to the point where they couldn't be used otherwise, or possibly at all.

 

...and I had 3 acers failing in less than 3 months, 2 FS failing in 1 month etc and all of them can be found into Wal-Mart or wherever you want even cheaper than an HP.

HP is first in numbers because she has less dissatisfied customers which could mean many things (better quality, better pricing, better support COMPARED to other companies).

 

Awesome Greg, I am really glad thing are looking good for you, and that HP decided to take care of you!!!

So tell me, were all the troubles and issues worth it in the end?

 

Theres a reason that Acer has so little marketshare in the US

HP sells because of the price. I know I've seen many Compaqs on sale the last few months for $399 with 1GB of RAM and DVD burners. What kind of person who isn't willing to buy a good PC would turn that down? Thats cheaper than the least expensive desktops WITH monitors.

I'd like to see where your proof of this "less dissatisfied customers" nonsense comes from.

Looking around here and other forums, I see more people UNhappy than happy with their HP.

I have yet to use an HP, my own or otherwise, that works as good as a Windows PC can.

Its funny that, for who knows how long now, I've had to do all of my Windows related tasks on a Mac because the Windows PC I bought (and eventually had replaced) was malfunctioning.

Now that replacement system is dying and, once again, all of my Windows "work" gets done on a Mac.

 

I still have my Averatec 6130hs and it still works like the day I bought it 3 years ago. My brothers HP laptop is going on two years now and he hasn't had any issues with it. I've had my NC8430 since March 2007 and I haven't had any problems with it.

 

I really don't pay attention to the other brands' forums here on NBR, but for those of you that have, do you see the same trend as here on the HP forum, where more people are dissatisfied than satisfied? I'm curious to know, and I'm too lazy at the moment to go check them out myself.

I hope I don't jinx any of my HP stuff when I say this, but I've had mostly good experiences and very few problems in general with HP products. Of course, only one of those products was something other than a printer, and that's my notebook that I'm typing on right now .

Either I'm just lucky, or I've dealt mostly with their older products, or both, since their productss where I've had the most issues with have been their newer printers; but they usually involve the software drivers for them, not the printers themselves.

Another brand where my personal experience "defies the reputation" is Gateway. They seem to have a very bad reputation, and yet my family's had very good experiences with them. And while this isn't computer related, we've had very bad experiences with our KitchenAid Dishwasher, and they have a very good reputation. Go figure.

I guess my point is, don't buy or avoid any product simply based on brand reputation. Everyone's mileage is going to vary with a certain brand. You're going to have to do more research on a certain model to get a better idea of how long it's going to last.

 

Its pretty simple, the average person buys a computers based on 2 things:
1: price most people are just looking at a computer that gets on the internet and does word.

2. can I just pick it up at the store. Whenever someone is going to buy something they want it now and not have to wait a few weeks for it to ship. If everyone was so patient at buying a computer walmart, best buy etc... more than likely wouldn't be selling computers now.

That is just the way the world works. It not because HP's customers are satisfied its just because they don't think about a warranty when they purchae a computer, its "Man dang $300 what a steal what are they thinking?"

 

NBR posters represent just 0.00001% of the HP customer base, even less if they're using an HP commercial notebook. By the amount of reliability issues you read about with regard to HP's commercial products over here, I'd say they are pretty reliable for what they are. HP still maintains some of the biggest corporate accounts in the industry who buy these stuff in huge volumes, so if a major proportion of those break like they are mentioned here, HP would have quickly lost their share of the market, but they didn't.
You won't get a better comparable product from any of the Tier 1 manufacturers right now. Margins are pretty tight and I believe they all have pretty much similar manufacturing standards (and suppliers) because this is an extremely competitive industry.

 

I had a ZE5170 pavillion since 2002, and it is still working without a single repair. I keep the machine on for days together and I used/use it with utmost disregard, keep it in car locked under sun, sleep with it overnight while my blanket doesn't let it breathe and so on. I also have 3 other friends who brought the same pavillion and two of them are still using it without repair like me.

This is one of the reasons why I always go back to HP. The second reason being cost, yes for the config. that I got with my dv9500t (around $2200), it costs more than twice on Dell and Sony sites. Also the first dv9500t that I got had noisy fan issues and I was able to return it within two days and got a brand new one with which I am more than happy.

Overall I think hp is a company which has its own share of problems like other companies. And I really believe that on NBR we find mostly people who like to tweak their machines rather than do work/make use of them.

 

You got your answer already if you don't believe simple sales statistics.

Thanks chrixxx and others

 

I'm not going to post which manufacturer has the best quality rating or best success rating and which are the worst.

What I will say though is: People without problems are less likely to post on forums such as these. People complain more than they compliment. For example: Ever been to a restaurant that has comment-cards sitting on each table (with NO incentive to fill them out)?
The majority of people that even 'consider' filling out the coment card are people w/ bad experiences (complaints). Few people who have 'exceptional' experiences will fill them out. For everyone else who was satisfied, but not overwhelmed, they are not represented by the comment cards. They -are- represented by future visits to the restaurant etc, but they aren't apparent in any metrics.

Also, the argument that "I see more Brand X complaints than Brand Y on the web" needs to be looked at. For example, perhaps Brand X sells 40 times what Brand Y does. But only has 4 times the complaints. In actuality, Brand X (having fewer complaints) would seem to be more popular then, no?

Back to the main topic of this thread, I'm glad to see HP seems to be dealing with this case decently. That is, Greg had a "lemon", and they've allowed him to select the fruit of his choice (within financial reason of course). So they're not forcing something upon him that may not be compatible with his needs. (i.e. video card not powerful enough, not enough battery life, whatever). I think that was a good move on their part. I'm a bit disappointed they promised to call him back in a timeframe and were late. They need to either promise to call w/i "5 business days" or get into gear and call w/i their promised time-frames.

 

That hurts...

In a way...yes. In other ways...no. I was happy with my 'old' computer and wasn't planning on upgrading to Santa Rosa or DX10 technology any time soon. But this move will be worthwhile in the long run...probably not now as I'm in school, but during breaks definitely.

The replacement laptop is somewhere beteen 7.5-8.5 pounds, I'll weigh it to be sure because there have been some questions on the validity of HP's data. The real question is how am I going to carry it...we'll see, but I do have books I carry that are (I think) heavier than this notebook will be.

To the first bolded statement: that is the absolute truth. About 3 out of every 4 threads is about a problem related to software or hardware (at least that is how it feels for me), but that doesn't mean all these manufacturers and whatnot are bad. I've been plenty of HPs without any troubles, and some that were duds.

Ironically enough, I bought a zx5000 three years ago that went lemon on me within 18 months. Got replaced by a zd7000, in much the same replacement process as I just went through. HP did right back then, and they stood behind their warranty. Now, the zd7000 had a crappier battery life so I had to carry around the AC adapter...which meant I was carrying around somewhere between 10-12 lbs just for the notebook. Sold it, ended up with an XPS M140.

When it was time to get rid of the M140 a year ago, ended up buying the nc8430 and reviewed it here. My girlfriend asked me why I would even want to go back to HP given the death of my zx5000 (and three motherboard replacements!). I knew that if there were problems, I'd probably be okay as (1) I know the system and (2) I knew that HP would probably stand behind their warranty like they did so long ago.

I was right...even if the process was a little painful and long, I still got taken care of here.

Oh, and digging around on Friday I found out why HP had not contacted me sooner. If you remember from an earlier post of mine, I had to contact them continuously until I got a-hold of Customer Relations. Well, somehow HP had written down one wrong letter in my email address. During my last lemon experience, they initiated contact by phone. This time, they do it by email...and when you have the wrong email address, it is a little hard to find someone.

So yeah, I blame HP for screwing up the email (they've used my address successfully before and I told it to them three times a week and a half ago)...but I can't be mad for them failing to contact me. I just can't, even though it was their fault.

In hindsight, they were very nice with helping me to pick out a notebook...but keep in mind that if anyone reading this wants to do the same, they are bound by certain $$$-limits and you will need to talk to a human being in order to get this done.

Overall, the laptop is a good upgrade. I lose like 160MHz off the processor, and I'm going to get a lower battery life. But the graphics card and larger screen will be good now...I need a larger mobile screen and I would appreciate the new-found power of the GPU. I'm also getting a 1x2GB RAM configuration, so I'm cannibalizing one 1GB stick out of my nc8430. I'll get 3GB RAM to start, and I'll move to 4GB later (or sooner). I'm also getting a 160GB HDD out of it (up from 100GB), and my old warranty will transfer over to my new PC so I don't have to worry about that. I'm also getting Vista, and while I probably will install XP right away, I will end up getting a license for Vista...and supposedly you CHOOSE whether to install 32bit or 64bit Vista when you boot for the first time. So I'm choosing 64bit, and I'll run with it when Vista is a little more mature.

All-in-all, happy ending to a horrible problem. Now if only my new laptop will ship out

Andrew has already cleared me to do a review of the 8710p, so you'll be getting that in probably a month or so (two weeks till delivery, two weeks to review it). I promise it will be as good or better than my nc8430 review!

 

Completely understandable. I'm sure you'll love it when you get it. I very nice machine IMHO.

 

I certainly won't be buying HP again no matter what. Two systems dead in less than two years? When one was supposed to be the replacement, and equivalent (which it wasn't), for the other that died?

Both systems died and all they did was live life on a desk. When I bought my first system, I rarely used it. I didn't notice the problems until I actually started to use it as my primary PC. If I had used it a bit more within the 14 day return period for the store, you can bet I would have returned it and avoided HP all together.

Of course, ALL of this trouble could have been avoided if Roy Herrera, the most incompetent case manager ever, hadn't told me I was SOL when I first told them of my motherboard problems more than a year ago. He could have solved it all then by replacing the motherboard then. I would have been "satisfied" and HP wouldn't have lost god knows how much in repair costs and replacement fees. And they certainly wouldn't have lost me, my friends, all of my family, and every single person I can convince to Apple.

Exactly. A $399 laptop at Wal-Mart with a gig of RAM and a DVD burner would be hard for ANYBODY to pass up, regardless of brand.

The average person is not going to say "hmm HP.. it might not last". They're going to say "WOW LOOK AT THAT PRICE!"

Not necessarily. A big corporation will also have service contracts and things like that with HP. So they'll go with HP because its the cheapest and HP will cover the cost of hardware repairs.

Look at Flextronics. They're a 3rd party company that does repairs for OEMs. They have one of the worst reputations in the industry, yet all of the OEMs continue to contract them and use them.

Its all about cost, not quality.

Thats not true at all. I've had two HP systems die after very little use over the course of two years. After the first system went bad, the second system was hardly used because I know how fragile HP systems are now. My MacBook has received abuse day in and day out. And guess what? It still works flawlessly. HP's build quality is just flat out terrible.

Let's not get started on the bad customer service too. To get results out of HP, I've had to threaten legal action, file complaints with the BBB, and recite California civil code over the phone to the people who were dealing with my case.

Compare that to Apple. I read about a guy who bought a MacBook with a combo drive. Something went wrong and Flextronics screwed up his repair. Apple replaced it. The new one was DOA and they sent him the better model up. That one had a couple of dead pixels on the LCD. So what did Apple do after that? They sent him a fully loaded 17" MacBook Pro. Something worth more than twice the price of his original unit.

I'd like to see HP do that.

Again, people buy HP because its cheap. Not because its good. As I said, you can walk into Wal-Mart and get a Compaq with a gig of RAM and a DVD writer for around $400.

THAT is why HP sells. No other reason.

Lets see how many of them are satisfied customers, shall we?

 

Just a small update in case you haven't understood.

HP is not cheaper than Acer or FS or Gateway, or even DELL.

 

Well, your situation is a little different compared to what I was implying in my post. Since you've already had experiences with HP (and very poor ones at that), then it makes all the sense in the world not to buy from them again. If I had those kinds of issues with HP, I certainly wouldn't be going back to them.

I probably should have added the boldfaced text below in my original quote:

 

Greg, I read the entire story about your HP notebook. Here's a similar experience, but not as severe:
http://www.wral.com/5onyourside/story/1812614/

I happened to see that as I was browsing the news today. Seems like HP service could use some work!

 

Hmmm...a mysterious package arrived at the front office of my apartment complex today. I wasn't able to pick it up today as I was out the entire day, so I'll have to pick it up tomorrow. But our little mysterious entity was shipped from HP and weighs in at about 8lbs...

...I might be getting my laptop tomorrow...

 

I hope you have better luck with this laptop.