Waiting for Envy 17 3D SB thread

I'm sure HP could just issue a simple update. And should they take their time about it, I'm certain somebody will probably find a way to hack the Thermal Assistant software and distribute it to the older Envy models.

According to Intel, the new Sandy Bridge processors are a lot more powerful, while using a lot less energy; so I'm assuming they won't generate as much heat. And since switchable graphics has been confirmed, the majority of people will probably be using the integrated graphics chip for the majority of the time. (Unless of course, you play hard core games, run graphics-intensive programs, and watch 3D Blu-Ray movies all day). And from looking at the documentation on the support site, the Envy 17 3D has 7 vents on the bottom, and one on the left side. As long as its used mostly on a flat surface, where airflow is not obstructed, I can't really see overheating being a problem. But, time will tell...

 

I haven't pried open enough HP laptops to provide any real info, but the heatsink on my HP 6730b was held on with some kind of adhesive.

 

Since we are talking about the Coolsense tech....didn't HP explain/show that besides software, the hardware although may not be different, has been RE-ARRANGED TO PROVIDE LOGICALLY THE BEST AIRFLOW? Am I nuts (well, maybe a little) , or did HP not mention this?

As a side note: It is really sad that HP had to be surprised at your comment about the thermal compound. I had a crazy idea...just imagine if some of the members here worked hand in hand with HP techs, designers, etc...to build the ultimate laptop that us users want...to look, work, and do it all! Can you imagine....Haaaaaa, a guy can dream.... It would be amazing...

KJ

 

Where are these laptops being built and shipped from? Does anyone know?

 

HP support got back to me about SATA levels:

So assuming this is right (and I have little reason to doubt), probably only marginal benefit to running out and buying a C300. Looks like I'm on the hunt for a good deal on a 256GB Vertex II

 

They are shipping from Shanghai.

 

Shanghai, China. From there, usually sent to the Memphis hub... then to your local FEDEX, then to you hopefully, lol.

KJ

 

Okay, that's good.

 

yay post processing of photos! someone else here in that category; I was begining to think I was the only one interested in 72% color gamut and enough horsepower to run very large Adobe Lightroom catalogs and fairly heavy editing in Lightroom and Photoshop CSx as well.

on the heat issue; personally I wouldn't say blown, at least until we see field results. However, it is a disapointment to me to learn that HP is using the term "CoolSense" in an inconsistent way. This description makes it clear that CoolSense is a combination of three things (1) motion sensor based detection so the software can dial in the right cooling profile depending on its location, (2) strategically placed vents and materials, and (3) HP Thermal assistant software. Many of us assumed, back in January 4 when HP announced that CoolSense was coming to the SB Envy 17, that the introduction would contain all three elements. We assumed this because the January 4 announcement refered specifically to the above description.

now, we learn that adding "CoolSense" to the Envy 17 means just adding (1) and (3) above. So in this case "CoolSense" does not refer to any mechanical design changes to the SB Envy. To the extent that this is true, (and we have no reason to doubt HP Nate) I conclude that the addition of a smart fan controller does not improve the maximum heat-dissipation capacity of the mechanical design itself. In other words, Envy 17 didn't get a bigger radiator but it did get a smarter fan controller.

However, before jumping off this bridge we must be careful not to infer things based on the legacy Envy's heat issues. The SB Envy's 2nd generation Sandy Bridge Processors are indeed more efficient because they are based on newer 32nm process, whereas the Legacy 1st gen processors are a 45nm process. The real heat performance is expressed as Thermal Design Power, TDP, which for the 1st gen i7 processors is 45 watts, while the Sandy Bridge i7s are listed a "17-35w". This is a very significant improvement in energy efficiency . I'm not a CPU engineer but this tells me that running at 100% CPU, the Sandy Bridge processors will run at least (45-35)/45 = 22% cooler than an i7-840QM running at 100%. And the Sandy Bridge will be doing more work.

So -- will the SB Envy 17 run cooler than the Legacy Envy 17? you can bet your bottom dollar, imho. proof of pudding will be in the eating, to be sure, and I cant wait for the initial reports to come in -- but consider the possibility that with the increased efficiency of Sandy Bridge, and better fan control, HP Engineers may have concluded that no further mechanical changes were necessary. To bad they couldn't have placed a thin heat-insulating material on the underside of the palm rest -- deflecting more heat out the vents instead of using the case for as heat sink. who knows, maybe they did and HP's support category team just didn't know ebout it I guess we'll find out over the coming weeks!

 

If I remember correctly that model is not the US Envy 17 3D. It has a lesser GPU (AMD Radeon HD 6830M) and I'd bet some other differences. Someone posted a link to this model a couple of pages back

HP ENVY 17-2000 Notebook PC series Home and Home Office.

 

correct -- the Envy 17t-2000 model refers to Sandy Bridge, but the link there refers to HP localized for the middle East. But the lack of SATA III support is probably consistent across the global implimentation ,is my guess, and fiver5 weren't you asking about a U.S. machine?

 

yea I agree, its sad until we remind ourselves that the Sales reps (and even the support reps) are trained to their stated craft, not to know about semiconductor heat management! in a very large company like HP, the individuals in various stages of the product life cycle are highly specialized to their respective tasks.

...The girl that builds your ice cream cone at Dairy Queen probably doesn't know how many calories are in the chocolate dip

now - if a CPU engineer doesn't know about reducing case-to-sink thermal resistance via thermal compound, then I'll get worried

 

thats a fascinating suggestion -- but it would require exposing the accelerometer in the HDD as a device that the software can talk to. (Ever see a laptop with a single SSD AND coolSense?)

you got that right. 35w max versus 45w max TDP!

yea all those observations are accurate -- but the nagging point (or "elephant in the room") is the fact that the legacy Envy 17 (with all those vents) is known to operate on the hairy edge of tolerable heat when under heavy gaming, for example -- plugged in and sitting on a hard surface at normal room temps. So the question we all have is -- has the SB architecture itself sufficiently relieved the maximum heat dissipation issues present in the Legacy Envy?

 

That's good news jha34. My build is identical to yours and I ordered early on 2/28. I'm expecting that e-mail at any time, hopefully before the end of the day.

 

100% correct. Now about that ice cream....

KJ

 

Killa Joe

Just an FYI. Been tracking my Envy 17 3D. It is in Anchorage, Alaska. Was received this morning at 5:30am. Cleared at 2:15pm. So not everything comes directly to Memphis. Intesting. Wonder if the Earthquake and Sunami had anything to do with it...

 

I guess we'll find out soon...and we have 21 days to decide if we're happy with the results!! LOL. Probably the most processor- and graphics-intensive games I'll be playing are Unreal Tournament 3 and Crysis: Ultimate Edition. (Crysis 2 comes out in a few weeks, and I may try that out). Also, Rollercoaster Tycoon 3: Platinum can be pretty demanding, if your park grows past a certain size. And the first person coaster camera uses a lot of processing power. I'm also going to see if all these games will work with the TriDef 3D software, and how well they run. I'll try transcoding some HD video in the background as well. We'll see how hot this thing will/won't get...

 

Hmmm...Shanghai wouldn't have been affected by the tsunamis, at least not to my knowledge. And perhaps it has something to do what part of the country you're in. I'm close to the east coast. Everything I've ever ordered from HP comes through Memphis. Maybe they have routes flying both West an East out of Shanghai.

 

Oh shoot, I mean Shanghai to Alaska, then to Memphis, then to your local FEDEX, than to you. I think sometimes it ships from Alaska to other closer locations like Cali...but anyway, most ship to Memphis from Alaska. Sorry for leaving Alaska out, lol.

KJ

 

I will be making a special Envy 17 3D SB Edition YouTube Videos thread very soon! Once you make the HD vid, let me know, or if you feel ambitious feel free to make that thread, but I would love to do it. So if you or anyone else gets there SB Edition 3D, let me know and I'll make it ASAP, then the fun of making vids and posting/linking shall begin. Hope everyone gets their system in perfect condition.

Note: Videos can be of an unboxing, reviewing the system, or just playing a game in 3D or not. Also, I'd love to see a video of anyone owning a 3D HDTV and trying to see if the HDMI 1.4 really works! Would love to see a 3D movie or 3D game playing on your 3D HDTV with the HDMI cable, or using the Widi if you have the right equipment! Show me how great your vids are guys, good luck.

P.S. Anyone getting the Envy 17 3D SB Edition planning on doing and HD vid on YouTube, please PM me and I'll make the thread, or once it is made I will link your YouTube vid to our thread for everyone to find and enjoy. Thanks in advance.
KJ

 

I don't know if you've seen this or not. Look at all the things this guy is doing simultaneously (with only 4GB of RAM and no discrete graphics card)!! I know it's not an HP Envy , but he is using the 2nd Generation i7 2820QM processor. It's rediculous...amazing!! I can't wait to see what I can really do when I get my system...

YouTube - Multi-Tasking Test (Intel Sandy Bridge Notebook)

 

LMFAO@@@@ I've seen that very video last night!
Haha, just wait, our vids will rock. Remember, we had the best vids in town from the original Envy 17 3D YouTube vids. You can find those just go back some pages here. NBR breaks new grounds! Ha...anyway, yeah, can't wait to see what our system will do, but it will sure look great doing it.

KJ

 

Ok, I was checking out the issue with 1600MHz bus...and googled...just startign to get some interesting questions and observations...Here is a good one...found on Yahoo Answers.

Following is a straight copy/paste from a user on Yahoo, not my words of course.

"go for the 1600mhz it will be faster even if you arent using it to its full potentail.

that said if you have the choice between triple channel 1333mhz or dual channel 1600mhz go for triple channel.

infact screw that whatever speed you get however fast your processor you will have a noticable speed increase with triple channel memory over double channel memory (can read/write 3 things at once as opposed too 2 things) and the i5/i7 cores are the only ones able to take advantage of this i would highly suggest grabbing some.

1600mhz is faster than 1333mhz end of story. FSB of i7 (i dont care if its called hypertransport now its still a fsb at heart) is fast enough to get a speed increase from the faster memory your friend is wrong"


So there is triple channel, dual channel... still new here, so I'm not sure if true or not. Anyone know how many channels the Envy 17 3D SB will have?

On Tom's Hardware, found this post which made me go..OH NO! Not sure if its true...

"scorpian61 wrote :


When you say, "unless your overclocking", do you mean I have to overclock the 1600mhz ram to 1600mhz or something?




Basically, yes. Your motherboard will not set the ram to 1600mhz by default. It is most likely 1066, or maybe even 1333, depending on the processor you are going to run. If you want the memory to run at 1600, you will have to "overclock" it to that speed.


Now, what the other guy is saying is the reason most people buy 1600mhz memory is because they plan on overclocking the processor.
When you overclock by way of the FSB, you also at the same time start raising the memory speed. So if your stock memory speed is 1333, and you start raising your FSB to overclock the processor, and you have 1600 ram, you should not have to worry about pushing your RAM farther than it is rated, and thus encountering system instability due to the RAM being clocked past what it is rated to run"

Bottom line is, we that had the first gen of Envy 17 and Envy 17 3D know how HP did not allow us to OC our GPU, so not sure how it will work here, if will be able to OC to get 1600MHz eventually or we will be limited to the 1333MHz speeds. HP Nate any ideas?

KJ

 

The envy only has two memory slots.

 

Do we know if the NEW SB Envy 17 has the CoolSense Tech inside of it?

 

and the answer is here

 

Cool. While a little vague it seems to be pretty on point.

Oh well so long as the vents and the overall design allow for better cooling than the previous model I'm cool with it...

So close to getting what I want...

 

Thanks for clarifying fiver5.

KJ

 

So basically what they did with the envy is put a new CPU in it, and that's it? Weak... After all the talk about huge upgrades, I'm a bit let down.

 

Aweee, Apoxxx you do have to look at the overall picture of this Envy. Do you really want an Alienware monster? A MBP? We drifted toward the Envy 17 3D because we saw something special.... at least I did and still do...it has my name all over it!

Anyway, look, a few years down the line, what will the Envy line look like? Will there even be an Envy line? Whatever the future holds, I hope HP keeps its great customer service (well, if not great, still better than most).

I'm sure this future talk may not help with what you want now, but the point is, for the system it is, and price, and looks..... it ain't so badddddddddd. Again, price...it didn't really go up did it? Funny thing is, with the coupons, I'm getting this sexy beast for less then I got the original Envy 17 3D!

KJ

 

If you need a decent laptop asap (like me) then I think it will do.

I know what you're saying and a part of me agrees but another part of me is unwilling to wait 7-8 months for whatever new high end laptop HP releases or whatever new refresh the Envy line gets down the road.

So long as its got the SB processor and the Coolsense plus the backlit keyboard, and 1080p display I'm down for it.

And like KJ pointed out its probably the best looking notebook PC out there. The MBP is also sexy but way too expensive...especially since I'm not at all comfortable with Mac OSX and I'd just install Windows 7 right away through BootCamp and use it 100% of the time

So as soon as I can I'm getting the Envy. I just hope that by that time the regular Envy 17 is available with all the upgrades.

I still have NOT gotten an answer as to whether or not the 3D affects the battery life of the laptop. Especially if you never use it....

 

I'm just hoping the i7 2820M, 8 GB Ram, and HD 6850M can handle Street Fighter IV in 3D mode!!

 

I wanted the envy, but only for it's looks, it has nothing else to put it infront of it's competition.
The GPU is too weak for my gaming needs, and with the lack of switchable graphics and no new hardware based cooling, I bet it will run hot as ever, and use just as much battery as before. But I'll wait for the reports before I go Uglienware.

 

As someone stated before, the new SB tech should make it run 20-25% cooler than previous Envy 17s alone. As for the m17x, it's really no more powerful than the Envy 17 3D, except it has the better GPU, and larger SSD options (which right now are too expensive for even the smaller SSD...better off to just buy and install your own and save).

 

It was confirmed by HP Nate that Envy 3D 17 has switchable graphics.

 

As I said, I'm eagerly awaiting reports from the people who should get theirs sometimes early next week. I'm still open for an envy should it turn out to run cooler than the previous generation. I also don't believe in switchable graphics until I get some reports, regardless of what HPnate says.

 

Hopefully it will come soon.. I am getting the dreaded shipment exception right now. So currently it is due on the 16th (with 2 day)

 

Apoxxx, I do respect your point. I too don't take people 100% at their words. Seeing is believing...or at least wait for the words of actual users. All good. In the end, I do hope you stay with our little gang. Its been great so far having you around.

KJ

 

Yeah it would be sad to go to the other side aswell after waiting so long for this laptop. It's just that I feel we don't get all the features HP promised in January.

 

Keep bugging HP Rep will get you a fat discount.

 

So if switchable graphics for basic Windows operation is there, that in combination with the nature and the new architecture of Sandy Bridge and the CoolSense additions (even only thermal assistance) will dramatically reduce the heating issues and improve the battery life by far.

There is absolutely no comparison in temperatures between the first gen i-7 and the new SB with the second one to run a lot cooler plus now the main ATI GPU will be turn off. G-R-E-A-T!!

Hopefully the new 640GB HHD are not running too hot as well and that will solve the palm rest heating issues as well. The 500GB HITACHI HDDs HP used to the legacy Envy 17 3D was way too hot causing uncomfortable heating issues to the palm rest.

Hopefully all of the above will get some confirmation next week when people will start receiving those new babes!!

 

My envy just shipped today but the two day shipping is jacked and it says it estimates the 16 after I payed for 2 days :/

 

It does mention the earthquake though on the fedex site

 

Call HP right away, they will REFUND you the shipping costs, good luck, and congradts on joining the Envy 17 3D family.

KJ

 

My estimated delivery date is Wednesday but the package is already in my home town (Orlando)! Hopefully I can get it before then.

 

It bewilders me how the largest technology company in the world cannot seem to update their product listing on the website.

 

Good luck. FedEx is always finnicky about that.

 

FedEx 2nd Day shipping means two business days.

So if your laptop get's ship on Thursday or Friday you automatically missing your 2Day delivery.

This is standard policy with all major courier companies.

 

SB Envy 17 Technical clarifications. re-posted because questions that we know are answered keep coming up!

• SATA III supportstatus=unknown. NBR member CMC79 reports that Cougar Point chipset supports SATA III, but we lack confirmation that HP implimented this
• Widi implimentation status=unknown. HP Nate and the product demo both confirm WiDi for both 3D and non-3D Envy 17s, but we still need confirmation re: supported resolution. NBR member jywang reports that the 2630QM processor itself supports only 1st generation 720p WiDi, while the 27xx and 28xx supports 2nd genertion 1080p WiDi via the Netgear PTV2000 receiver.
• 1600MHz RAM status=unknown. HP says this is available only with certain i7 processors but doesn't say which one or how to choose it. The only upgraded processor choice, the 2820, itself supports 1600 MHz RAM, but we don't know yet if HP includes 1600MHz RAM with this procesor, or if the front side bus really runs at 1600MHz when this processor is selected. NBR member VectorX reminds us that the processor should read the XMP profile and adjust the memory controller to 1600MHz when such memory is present, but we don't know if the front bus (as a whole, including BIOS and other components) on the Envy 17 is designed to run at that speed.
• 120 Hz IGP status=unknown. Evidence may be mounting in favor of this but we don't know yet if the i7 IGP itself will support 120Hz refresh rates for 2D movies, for example.
• CoolSense hardware improvements status=not included. per HP Nate, the implementation does not include physical/hardware changes to venting, airflow, etc. see "CoolsSense software" below
• new I/S 3 Clickpad status=not included. Per HP Nate, the SB Envy has implimented the legacy, first-gen clickpad first introduced with the Envy last year. However, see "Clickpad improvements" below
• DX11, 3D switchable graphics status=not supported. per HP Nate, DX11 remains in the discrete GBU, as the on-chip GP supports only DX10
• switchable graphics for non-3D, nonDX11 status=confirmed. HP Nate confirms that non-3D and/or non-DX11 content will automatically switch to the IGP, which utilizes shared RAM. We don't know how this is implemented, but HP has already posted switchable graphics drivers for 2nd-gen processors on the g7 laptop
• Clickpad improvementsstatus=confirmed HP Nate confirms that clickpad improvements have been made via software.
• CoolSense software status=confirmed. per HP Nate, CoolSense software (HP Thermal assistant) is included.
• HDMI 1.4 status=supported. Per HP Nate the SB Envy 17 supports HDMI
• USB 3.0 status=supported. per HP Nate The SB Envy has not changed in this regard, i.e. there is still one USB 3.0 port, per HP Nate.
• enhanced VM support for the i7 2820 status=supported. per NBR member cam121 The 2820 extended instruction set has a clear advantage over the 2630.
• Gigabit Ethernet status=supported. per HP Nate The SB Envy has not changed in this regard, i.e. gigabit Ethernet is still supported

 

It seems like a lot of you have opted for the i2820QM as opposed to the i2630QM....just wanted to get what's the reasoning behind that.

Is there truly much difference between the two when it comes to multitasking.

Like for example would one run a program like iTunes better for instance? I'll be honest I don't plan on doing any VM stuff on the laptop....just need something fast, efficient, and powerful enough for a game like Starcraft II...