Waiting for Envy 17 3D SB thread

I wish they'd offer the 2720QM--it's what I went with on my to-be-returned dv7qe. While it's 2mb less cache like the 2630, the Turbo modes are as aggressive as the 2820, just with everything 100mhz slower (single core tops at 3.2 vs. 3.3), and the feature set--virtualization, new AES instructions, 1600mhz memory support--is the same. HP wanted $200 more for the 2720 and $400 more for the 2820--making the 2820 honestly difficult to justify in anybody other than those who needed the absolute best (and those people should probably buy the extreme edition chip anyway).

I'm torn between waiting for the new dv7 with similar specs to the one I have, or getting an Envy 17 3D. It's a tough decision because I don't think the 2820 is worth $350 more over the 2630, but after having the 2720, I hate to downgrade the CPU, especially when I do a lot of multi-threaded tasks that actually use all 4 cores.

Let me also elaborate on some things I haven't seen mentioned--the 2630 does not have the new AES instruction set, so if you're doing things like full disk encryption, you're missing out on one of the new features. Further, not all Sandy Bridge on board graphics are the same--while all of them have 12 execution units (vs. desktop models, which can have 6 or 12)--their clock speeds are not the same. The 2630's on board graphics base clock speed is the same as the 2820's--650mhz. But the 2820's can turbo up to 1300mhz, while the 2630's is 1100mhz. This frankly means less on a system with switchable graphics than it would on a system that relied solely upon the on board SB graphics (and from reading Anandtech's review of the new MacBook Pro's that use AMD switchable graphics, the slightest demand for rendering power enables the discrete GPU). However, the new Quick Sync technology that the SB chips use to massively accelerate video encoding/decoding all depends on using the execution units in the onboard GPU (which is why systems with discrete but non switchable graphics can't use Quick Sync). So presumably in situations using Quick sync, the 2820 ought to be even faster than 2630 than would be suggested by the differences in the CPU speed alone.

 

Anyone know if it has Sata III 6gb/s? I know the uglienware has, and along with the better GPU it's the main thing that draws me in that direction right now. If the Envy turns out ot have SataIII then it's pretty even for me again.

I got the Crucial RealSSD 256gb lying around here, so I'd really like a laptop that can use it's full potensial (Sata III mode)

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm trying to do research on both of em but I'm kinda hoping they add back that 3rd option so I can just compromise and get that one...

 

Apoxxx, I believe someone posted last night that it only has Sata II, that person asked HP sales I believe, so you know how it is...take it with a grain of salt. But it could be true....who knows...

KJ

 

I'm sad to hear that. Now if they only would put out an alienware with envy design, I'd be living in a perfect world, but sadly I'm not

 

I was under the impression that was what a sales person who reported on the Middle Eastern version, and non-SB to boot? Maybe my wires got crossed though, hopefully HPNate can chip in on this?

 

I frankly think it HAS to have 6gbps SATA ports--the Sandy Bridge chips only work with the new chipsets (the "Cougar Point" series--H65/H67/QM67/QS67), all of which support 2 SATA III channels and 4 SATA II channels. I guess it's possible that somehow HP made the SB chips work with the older 55 series chipsets, but Intel did changed the pin count on the new chips (in part, no doubt, to make users purchase new motherboards), so I highly doubt that's the case. (Plus the dv7's all used the defective chipsets--the H65's). I imagine that HP sales rep was talking about the non-3D, non-SB based Envy 17, which, using presumably the H55 or H57 chipsets, that go with previous generation Arrandale CPUs, do in fact only support SATA II.

 

multi-tasking with multiple apps like iTunes running, imho no. the raw clock speed improvement is only on the order of 10%, and the increased L3 cache won't help in this situation. Best thing you can do to support multiple simultaneous apps of this nature is to maximize the RAM becasue the CPU is probably not fully utilized anyway (and not the bottleneck). multiple virtual machines or specialized apps are a different story of couse, as cam121 has rightly pointed out

multi-threading by itself, without the need to run encryption apps, perform VM work, or really push the I/O limits of the CPU itself (greater L3 cache, faster front bus), wouldn't really be substantially advantaged by the 2820 more than the incremental clock speed itself, which is still about 10%. So yea I'd have to agree -- unless one plans on running that sort of stuff you won't see the return on that $350 except for bragging rights.

Well its true that the on board graphics performance would be advantaged in short-term peak demand situations supported by the turbo overclocking, which is a tad less than 20% faster in the 2820. And as you rightly pointed out, if one is pushing the graphics performance that hard with non-3D, non-DX11 content under battery power, and you could see (if it were possible) the difference between the 2630 and 2820 graphics performance in switched (on-chip) mode, then one can always plug-er in and use the discrete card which will outperform the 2820's IGP anyway.

But your point is a good one, and definately one to add to the mix here; thanks for digging that up .

 

good observations, and let me add my welcome to you from the NBR your reasoning makes sense --we'll have to wait for some additional confirmation from HP on this point

 

The Envy 17 SB is now available and when configured to the the base price of the Envy 17 3D...it's $200 more. Also the base price of the Envy 17 3D is now $50 higher thanks to the default 1 TB 5400 RPM hard drive. There is not even options for a standalone 7200 RPM hard drive unless you opt for the 800 GB (160 GB SSD + 640 GB 7200 hard drive).

It looks like they finally fixed up the site with an updated overview page for the Envy 17 3D. However while the new Pavilion dv series refresh mention HP CoolSense in the overview page, it doesn't in the Envy 17 3D.

 

Hmmm...I see. It also appears that new Envy 17 and Envy 17 3D systems will come with 60 days of Norton Internet Security 2011. I didn't notice that before today. Do you think those of us that already ordered will get this? Or will we be stuck using the free (yet sufficient) Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall?

 

There is no such thing as a Sandy Bridge PC without SATA III.
Just shady vendors who only give SATA II options.

 

Yea, but no more shady than how they only gave the 1333 MHz RAM option.

 

I contacted HP support - not sales. They told me that the HP ENVY 17t-2000 CTO 3D did not support SATA III and only supported SATA II.

Take it for whatever it's worth.

 

The 60 days of NIS 2011 is basically valued at nothing. I use MSE currently and haven't been happier. I would use MSE over those over priced memory hog of anti-virus software any day.

Anyways, there is already a free trial you can download online, albeit it's only 30 days.

Free Virus Scan - Download Norton Internet Security 2011 Free Trial Software

 

Norton is the devil's version of internet security, do not download it, ever!

Seriously, the built in MSE is great, plus I've always recommended the free version of Avast Home edition!!! It rocks! Plus, for all you gamers out there, it has a silent gamer mode, you can't lose.... Link below, enjoy.

avast! Free Antivirus - Download Software for Virus Protection

KJ

 

Are they kidding me? What The H..L????? They increased the price by $50 I just checked too..wow, and unreal! Then they have the smarts too take away the 7200rpm 640GB HDD? What@?#?# First, I shouldn't get all upset since I ordered it before this change...still... why?

The point is I am experincing the 5400rpm drive right now, and it sucks. I had the dv7-4183cl from Costco which had a 500GB HDD running at 7200rpm.... I thought I "upgraded" with the dv7-4283cl, sure it has 8GB compared with the previous 6GB ram, also new is the i5-480 processor compared to the i5-460 on the dv7-4183cl....

So I have now real life experience with both the 7200rpm and 5200rpm, even though the new lap has more ram and better processor, guess what? No, really, guess? Yeah, I am frustrated at how darn slow not only to boot up to Windows 7, but just running programs and such, the 5400rpm drive is just slow as molasses compared to the 7200rpm. I can now see what you SSD guys are talking about.

Eventhough I'm not currently ready to get an SSD at the crazy prices out, I do plan on one a year or so from now, but my point is, I cant' beleive HP is forcing those who had not purchased the Envy 17/3D to either suffer with crippling slow speeds or pay the $580 extra for the 160GB SSD and for the privledge of owning the 640GB 7200rpm, shameful I say!

Guys, I don't know what to tell you... if you want to save money I guess you could swap the 5400 with your own 7200 or just go for an SSD at this point.

KJ

 

Would you reccomend a hybrid drive? not as fast as true ssd but near close

 

Trappstr, I am not keen on SSDs, hybrids or such, although I am sure our fellow NBR members who have used these in the past can help... Just wait, they'll chime in....


On a side note, the only thing good here is HP updated the page and I'm glad it says HDMI 1.4, finally. But yeah, no mention of Coolsense, so did the new DV7s get a whole restructioning of the Coolsense, and the Envy only got an increase in fan boost with software?

KJ

 

Get a real SSD for your boot drive (Windows OS) and a second drive for storage. If you're a real speed junkie you can get two ssd's but the sacrifice in storage is typically not worth it. A 60-80gb SSD should be sufficient for your boot drive; 80gb if you want to be safe and want to install some games and heavily used applications. Your music, videos and pictures can all go on the storage drive. Take advantage of the fact that the envy has two hard drive caddys. Total cost, around $140 for 80gb SSD and around $100 for a 1TB hard drive.

 

Wait so the Envy 17 3D comes with two caddies even if I customized it with just a 640 GB 7200 RPM hard drive? Are you sure you're not just talking about two hard drive bays because I thought you have to purchase those caddies separately if you want to install another hard drive or SSD.

 

So checking out HP's site today really made me go what, why, etc.... And as noted above, if you spec the new SB Envy 17 to the same exact specs to the SB Envy 17 3D you are indeed paying $200 more for the Envy 17 SB (which by the way, when you get the 1080p upgrade for the Envy 17, does it not make it a 3D model essentially? All you'll need is the Tridef software and glasses right?) Which of course you will not get the 3D glasses with the Envy 17.

Does it not seem then logical that anyone wanting an Envy 17, should just buy the Envy 17 3D, get it for $200 less, and just not use the 3D features? Duh anyone?

If I was in the market for a non-3D laptop, I would not go for the Envy 17 at this point...I would go for the dv7 out, but the only downside, no 1080p. Illogical indeed, HP.....

The point is, if you wanted an HP laptop without the 1080p, then you can get the new dv7s....

KJ

 

The envy has two bays but only only one caddy (if shipped with only one drive).

You can get a caddy and cable kit from newmode for around $48 shipped. You can also get one from HP for around $75 but you will also pay tax and I believe the shipping is a bit high because people are usually whining on the forums that it is around $100 total.

 

To the SATA II/III issue: I've decided to take one for the team, the OCZ
Vertex 3 benchmarks faster than the Vertex 2 even in SATA II mode.

As soon as the Vertex 3 is shipping to the general public (projected end of March) I will purchase one and install it in the Envy. If we haven't gotten a definitive answer by then, I will provide the answer for you

 

Hmmm...not exactly. I think the Envy 17 just has the regular 1080p screen. The Envy 17 3D has the a special 1080p display running at 120 Hz, and has the IR emitters built into the display (they are to the left and right of the webcam and microphones).

 

I see, thanks. Well, I guess one would have to think really hard as to what justifies buying an Envy 17 SB vs. a new dv7 SB......

KJ

 

They increased the price and removed a 7200rpm drive? Cool, atleast that settles my decision, thanks for the long run HP, but I'm out.

 

I second that.Dell, here I come.

 

What are your guys thoughts on upgrading from 6gb to 8gb of memory for $60?

I did a base configuration except for an added battery, and am wondering if it's worth calling in to change my order. I figured I could just upgrade in the future if need be, and that it'd probably be cheaper -- not to mention 6gb is 50% more than I'm using now.

 

Apoxxx, I totally get it. I'm thinking....obviously HP has the 7200rpm drives since they are offering it with the SSD for an extreme price of $580 more! So why doesn't HP still offer the 640GB 7200rpm drive alone? The only thing that comes to mind is they want a higher profit margin, and/or maybe they lost to some of us using the coupons?

For example. I just specd the Envy 17 3D SB with what they are offering now, choosing the SSD with 640GB HD with tax and NO COUPONS, comes out to be:

•Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
•No Additional Office Software
•2nd generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2820QM (2.3 GHz, 8MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 3.4 GHz
•1GB Radeon(TM) HD 6850M GDDR5 Graphics [HDMI]
•8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
•800GB 7200RPM Dual Hard Drive (SSD 160GB + 640GB 7200RPM)
•One 6-Cell and One 9-Cell Lithium Ion Battery
•17.3" diagonal Full HD HP 3D Ultra BrightView Infinity LED Display (1920x1080)
•Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
•HP TrueVision HD Webcam
•Intel 802.11a/b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R)
•Backlit Keyboard
•Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 9 & Adobe Premiere(R) Elements 9
•HP 3D Active Shutter Glasses
•HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

Total>>>> $2,905.04 That is insane.

The spec I ordered on 3/8/11: Note, with $300 coupon and another $100 off for the one day sale, plus tax.
• Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
• No Additional Office Software
• 2nd generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2820QM (2.3 GHz, 8MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 3.4 GHz
• 1GB Radeon(TM) HD 6850M GDDR5 Graphics [HDMI]
• 8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 640GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• One 6-Cell and One 9-Cell Lithium Ion Battery
• 17.3" diagonal Full HD HP 3D Ultra BrightView Infinity LED Display (1920x1080)
• Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
• HP TrueVision HD Webcam
• Intel 802.11a/b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R)
• Backlit Keyboard
• Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 9 & Adobe Premiere(R) Elements 9
• HP 3D Active Shutter Glasses
• HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

Total: >>>> $1,809.94

So, for the pleasure of using HP's 160GB SSD I'd have to pay a difference of $1,095.10....worth it? Heck no!!! This is why HP has shocked us this weekend...and I don't know who is going to settle for the Envy 17/3D now...unless HP fixes their act and fast.

HP Nate, what do you think of all this? I know this not in your control, but is there anyone that can correct this, or let us know they made a terrible mistake?

KJ

 

maybe it's related to heat reduction?

 

Uh? I doubt it since they are still offering the 640GB 7200rpm ONLY if you buy it with the 160GB SSD for and extra $580. The Coolsense software works in both, both are SB models.... Anyway, its about the profit obviously. Still hope someone at HP made an early April Fools joke! I'm serious, because the more I think about it, the more I'm not happy with HP...and if I had not ordered mine before this, I would not order it now.

KJ

 

SO basically you guys are saying I should get get the Envy 17 3D?

But again I ask how will the 3D aspect of the display affect Battery Life?

Also the 3D display won't hurt my eyes right so long as I'm not watching any 3D content correct?

 

Well, if you want the 1080p which is not offered on the dv7s, then yes you need to get the Envy 17 3D SB, plus you will save $200 by not getting the now pointless Envy 17 SB (more expensive with less goodies, sheesh )

As to the 3D on battery life....Well, if you are watching a 3D bluray movie, HP advises you to keep it plugged in! Its gonna take juice....That will be true for any laptop you are viewing 3D content, I am sure. So don't plan on watching 3D movies just on battery....

Make sure you also get the extra 9v battery.

If you are sensative to 3D, then of course, it will be fine if you don't watch 3D. I've heard the fact of having a 120Hz screen helps with smoother picture frames, not sure about it....but your eyes should thank you when watching regular, non 3D content. Hope it helps.

One more thing....now that HP went and tacked on another $50 to the price and took away the 7200rpm 640GB HD, you have to consider if you want to wait for coupons again, and if you want to replace the HD with a 7200rpm or an SSD. Or wait until HP might fix this mess up.... IDK

KJ

 

Don't get why people think 3D will hurt their eyes. Do you think nature would give you 3D vision if it was harmful?

The only difference between 3D and non 3D is that your eyes see seperate 2D images. That's it.

 

Lol I just sent you a PM actually...disregard...

Thanks for replying. And I don't plan on using the 3D aspect. I just didn't know if the actual display itself would be significantly different as far as viewing non 3D content.

HP is shady....thanks again.

 

Yeah having the 3D screen and not enabling 3D will basically just give you a screen with higher Hz, which is good.

 

Even better. Bummed bout the drive options though. What HP giveth....HP taketh away...

 

Apoxxx, I think its the tech of 3D, glasses, etc... It would be sad if mother nature's life 3D could not be handled well. I see the warnings on the 3D booklet, so I guess there are people out there sensative to it. Yeah, just get the 120Hz 3D model screen and only watch non 3D movies, you should be ok.

KJ

 

In that case, will you sell me your 3D glasses for $45? LOL

 

Lol if you're for real and I get the Envy 17 3D I'll let you know asap...haha

And apoxxx I don't necessarily think that 3D will hurt my eyes but I do know that watching 3D for sustained periods doesnt make my eyes ache a little. I just find 3D to be a gimmick for the most part and I'm not really impressed by it.

However I'll get the 3D version of the Envy provided that when using it in "2D mode" there's no negative consequences...

 

the "no single 7200 rpm drive" doesn't make sense to me unless its a supply/demand/profit issue. It can't be heat related becasue the '7200 + SSD' option will certainly not generate less heat than the single 7200. Maybe HP is trying to preserve 7200 availabilty for other systems.

btw I agree -- 5400 rpm drives are no good on a high end laptop. even though the r/w specs "look" the same they are not -- the sustained data transfer rates are just faster on the 7200s.

 

right. 3D displays fake mother nature and can produce eyestrain because its just not as good as the real thing. and +1 on using the 3D screen for non-3D content. its a gorgeous display for 2D movies and for photos

 

I hope I can get price like that... Maybe I'm not consistent enough and patient enough... And I only got a $150 coupon....

 

to me thats a no brainer. stuff it with 8GB. you can't add 2GB to 6 and come up with 8 -- you'll have to replace it all.

 

btw, the price of the fully loaded (120GB SSD + 640 7200 HDD) configuration hasn't changed. Still 2289.99 (with 2630). Its regrettable that the single 640GB drive is no longer an option...

on Edit: ---and that $200 premium to opt out of 3D. holy black angus I don't get that. the std Envy 17 really sticks you for the i7 processor and 1080 display upgrades.

 

It's still $60, and I was under the impression that 6GB is plenty unless you're doing professional photo/video stuff. Would 8GB ever be noticeable for more normal use (word/surfing/excel/powerpoint/games) -- or is it just future-proofing at this point?

 

it would be useful for future proofing and heavy multi-tasking. for more normal use you wouldn't even need an i7, much less an Envy!

 

touché -- I'll call HP and see if I can modify my order

 

dlleno, you are gone for one day, and look what happens! I do hope HP straightens this mishap quick.... to summerize this weekends changes @ HP.com sales,

1. An additional $50 was imposed by HP on consumers who wished to order the Envy 17 SB or Envy 17 3D SB.

2. HP took away the option of a single 640GB 7200rpm HDD from the configuration, unless you buy it with their 160GB SSD for a price that is way jacked up.

3. For those wanting to spec an Envy 17 SB with the 1080p and bluray player will end up paying more than if they just bought the Envy 17 3D.

Logic? Can't find it..... Profits? $$$$$ well, maybe. It depends on HP's analysts and if they took into consideration as to how many customers they just lost by pulling this stunt (those of us in the know thanks to NBR) vs. those who will pay the new higher premiums to get these laptops (mostly because they don't hang around here, and are not aware of what has been before).

I'm hoping HP will get back on track, but I've said it before. I'll chuck it up to a fluke as long as this is fixed in the next couple days, no joke!

KJ