dv7t quad vs. HP Envy 17

Does anyone else think HP has blurred the difference between these computers too much now? I had a somewhat difficult time deciding between the dv7 and the standard Envy 17 when I bought my first version of the latter, which has been replaced with a 3D model. That decision would be tougher today.

I am just learning of some of the changes to the dv7. I would actually prefer the new separate track pad buttons. Does the new pad still retain gestures in the rest of it?

 

The distinction between Dv7 and Envy 17 is narrowing, that is true, especially for the 1600x900 screens which i personlly suspect are the same on these two machines. Presently, with both products refreshed with Sandy Bridge, the Envy 17 distinctions are:

1. backlit keyboard
2. dual band Wifi
3. more aluminum in the chassis
4. stronger, 6850 GPU

HP's roadmap as regards the trackpad appears to place the traditional touchpad (with buttons) on the DV7 and a more advanced image sensing clickpad on the Envy -- that latter of which is due to appear in the Envy 14 on June 15 and which hopefully represents an improvement over the clickpad on the present Envy 17.

you might ask the Dv7 folks about multi-finger gestures on the new models. with the separate buttons, the touch surface is small, so you have less room for mulit-finger gestures. In any case, my sense is that the industry is moving to a more Apple-lick clickpad with multi-gesture support and no physical buttons.

Some of the SB Envy 17 folks are making use of Synaptics Scrybe (downloaded directly from Synaptics) and loving it -- and I believe this is just a driver improvement to the controversial clickpad introduced with Envy 17 originally. The Envy 14 "image sensing" clickpad (coming in June) I believe is a hardware change to Synaptics own "IS" (image sensing) capacitive touch technology.

So if you are like me, and watching the evolution of clickpad technology, keep your ear to the Envy 14 to see how folks like that. If its succesful I would expect HP to introduce this into the Envy 17 as well, later this year. And if HP's trends keep up, then we will add a number 5 to the list of Envy 17 distinctions over the DV7:

5. "image sensing" clickpad with mult-gesture support

 

If that is the case, I wonder how easy it will be to buy the new touchpad from the parts store and install it into an existing Envy 17 SB. Chances are high they won't rework the case so it should physically fit.

 

Thats an interesting observation! As I review the Synaptics "image sensing" clickpad solutions I see two options ( keep in mind all of this assumes without verification that HP is using Synaptics IS):

1. Synaptics IS 3 is a complete off-the-shelf solution. if HP chooses this, my assumption is that they would have to re-work the case, so I suspect this isn't it. Something tells me that HP would want some influence on the pad as well (including it's name. see below), which suggests they didin't pick IS 3

2. IS 1.5 is rather a "OE DIY" approach that would allow HP to use their own mechanical design, but still leverage Synaptics IS technology. I suspect this was HP's choice because it would allow them to adapt the clickpad to the case, not the other way around. The other piece of evidence in favor of this choice is that there appears to be some HP-branding influence in the press release --the HP text refers to "HP Imagepad". So if they are using Synaptics IS and calling it the HP Imagepad, I suspect it would be IS 1.5

so -- you might be on to something. if the case is truly not re-worked, and they adapted IS 1.5 to the next Envy 17 refresh, then the new "Imagepad" that would show up in the HP parts store might just fit into todays SB Envy 17! this will be an interesting show to watch.

 

notebookcheck lists the HD 6770m higher on the class 1 list than the hd 6850m..when i was looking at these two laptops i was under the impression the envy was more expensive because of the more compact build and aluminum, higher quality casing

what am i missing here?

 

The 6850 has 800 pipelines and the 7660 only 480. I think if you check around on mulitple sites you'll find that to be true.

you are right about the aluminum casing (more AL in the Envy). The other advantages of the Envy include dual band Wifi, backlit keyboard, and (in the 3D version) a rather astonishing LCD panel

 

Essential differences between the 6850M and the 6770M. Beyond just the numbers I'm sure there are some test results out there by now.


feature: 6850 (6770)

pipelines: 800 (480)
memory bandwidth maximum: 128GB/s (76.8GB/s)
TFLOPS computing power: 1.5 (1.36)
stream processors: 960 (800)
Texture units: 48, (40)
Z/Stencil ROP units: 128 (64)
Color ROP units: 32 (16)

 

I went back and forth on a new DV7, or an Envy 17....

I ended up going with the quick-ship Envy 17 non 3D....mostly because I could not give up the back-lit keyboard. (Ordered with an EPP, it is a pretty decent deal!).

If HP offered the a back-lit keyboard option on the new DV6/7's, they would just kill the market.

 

Fairly positive the 6850m there was using GDDR3 not the GDDR5 we have.

 

just because I'm still watching this --- The DV7 with coupon NBR5818 is pretty attractive. $1,200 for 1080p, 8GB RAM, 2x750 7200 rpm.... The coupon doesn't apply to the Envy, but you can use NBY6198 and get $150 off of the Envy

 

There's a 30% coupon for the Envy last week that I used and got it to 1119 before tax with a 3d screen and 8 GB of RAM.

I returned my dv6t to buy that because it's a much better deal

 

I keep going back and forth between the dv7t and Envy. Help me out here:

Is the 3D screen on the Envy glossy or matte? Other than the 3D aspect, and advantages from one to the other?

Are there heat (with the i7) and battery life issues on the Envy when compared to the dv7t?

I just keep going back and forth because often I can get very similar systems to be about the same price (maybe with the Envy +$100). I understand the better GPU, backlit keyboard and chasis issues, but is that really all we are talking about here?

Sorry - I know this issue get's asked a lot, but I really do agree with one of the earlier posters that HP seems to have blurred the lines a bit here (at least with less informed customers like myself). I only hesitate on the dv7t (which seems to be where I am leaning) since the Envy is supposed to be a higher performance machine and it is not very much more in price.

This is the dv7t config I am looking at ($1,077 pre-tax using the 30% coupon):

Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
i7-2630QM (2.0 GHz, 6MB L3 Cache) w/Turbo Boost up to 2.9 GHz
1GB GDDR5 Radeon(TM) HD 6770M Graphics [HDMI, VGA]
8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
640GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
17.3" diagonal Full HD HP Anti-glare LED Display (1920 x 1080)
Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner

Any advice from people that have recently gone through this?

 

While I can't really speak to the difference in specifications, I can tell you that I played with both the DV7T and the Envy 17 3D in-store and at least to me, the difference in build quality and "feel" was significant.

I am NOT saying that the DV7T isn't well put together. Both are solid machines. However, the Envy just "felt" more solid and more quality to me.

 

Here is my real hesitation:

I can get the dv7t (with the specs shown above) or I could get the Envy for $1198 (pre-tax) with the following specs:

• i7-2630QM (2.0 GHz, 6MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 2.9 GHz
• 1GB GDDR5 Radeon(TM) HD 6850M Graphics [HDMI]
• 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 750GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• 17.3" diagonal Full HD HP 3D Ultra BrightView Infinity LED Display (1920x1080)
• Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
• Backlit Keyboard with numeric keypad

So spec vs spec, it seems like the Envy is a better deal. Anyone know how big a jump in performance it is from the 6770 to the 6850 graphics card? I saw some of the earlier posts, but to be honest, I didn't really understand some of the metrics posted. I really don't plan on gaming very much, but I do a fair amount of 3d modeling (which is why I have waited till know because of the OpenGL issue - which apparently is fixed now on the 6770).

An extra 100 GB in space on the same speed HD, and obviously the backlit keyboard.

What about the screens? Obviously the 3D is nice, although I doubt I would end up using it. Anyone know if the 3D screen is anti-glare? I don't think it is based on the BrightView branding, right? Isn't that HP's glossy screen? I guess it isn't a huge deal, but I'm not a big fan of having a screen that can double as a mirror. ; )

Anyone have more info on Battery/Heat issues (keeping in mind the i7)? I heard that the Envy would get pretty freakin' hot sometimes. That might make a difference.

At the end of the day, they are both great machines. The Envy seems nicer (although I am concerned about a few of the things mentioned above), and it is only about $130 more). Since I'm not really in a rush to get one, I wanted to take my time and make the best choice given my preferences. Normally, I don't do this much research.

I really appreciate any help / insight.

 

I'm not going to be able to go into detail about some of the questions you asked like about the battery/heat issues, but I'll break down my opinion like this:

$130 difference gets you:
Radeon 6850
Improved construction and materials
Backlit keyboard
North American service
3D screen (I don't think either is matte)
Bigger hard drive

If the $130 is not a sticking point, I'd recommend just going with the ENVY. Though it's hard to quantify the difference in materials, for $130, you're getting a lot. The ENVY is nice.

 

Quick question, if you don't plan on viewing 3D movies or paying 3D games, is the Envy 17 3D still a better choice over the regular Envy 17?

 

I chose the Envy 17 (non-3D) Quick Ship version 2070NR because I have no interest in 3D. The Quick Ship came with dual 500GB drives, an extra battery, and qualified for the free XBox360. Finally, I got it through Amazon, who I trust, and used my Amazon Visa to stack up points! $1369 delivered in two days (no tax for me).

It only came with 6GB RAM, but I'm upgrading that to 8GB and am replacing one of the drives with a SSD. Both are not necessary, but still the deal netted me more HDD space, an extra battery, a free XBox and Amazon.com service.

Doesn't look like the 2070NR is available for the free XBox360 through Amazon anymore, though. I could have received the XBox through HPDirect but they only apply one coupon, and I would not have received the student (HP Academy) discount of 10% (the Quick Ship models are already discounted since they are pre-built). Buying through Amazon gave me the discount and XBox.

 

While I can't directly compare the dvXt screens to the Envy, I can say that the screen on the Envy 17 3D is about the best your can get right now for a consumer laptop under $2k. There are better screens out there, but you'll pay out the nose for them. I love the screen on my Envy 17 3D.

A lot of us bought the Envy 17 3D even though we had no real desire for the 3D aspect for two reasons:

1. It was cheaper to order a Envy 17 3D base config than to trick out an Envy 17 non-3D to spec as close as possible to the base 3D config.
   
   
2. The screen on the 3D is 120Hz refresh whereas the non-3D is only 60Hz.

​

Thus, when we were ordering direct from HP, it was cheaper to buy the 3D and get more for your money. Of course, the xbox deal didn't exist back then (nor would I even want one myself).

P.S. If you want a true performance gain, upgrade from a HDD to a SDD.

 

I didn't know the display was much different when I ordered mine. I can say this, though... the display on my Studio XPS 15 is brighter than the Envy 17. I'm not disappointed but I would have opted for a better display over a free XBox. But hey, a free XBox is a free XBox! Haha!

 

In regards to heat, while I have noticed that the left palm area of mine can get warm under heavy load, it is never "hot". And on a whim, I ran 3DMark 06 last night, followed immediately after by Furmark, and my temps after half an hour never went above 81 celcius.

For battery life, I hit 5 hours with the extended battery; I believe I was getting over 3 with the standard one. Please don't take those numbers as fact - I've never done a full test of battery life. I CAN tell you that, with three women in the house, I've spent entire evenings hiding in the basement and have never had to go sprinting for an outlet

Oh, and the screen on my Envy 17 is by far the best I have EVER had on a laptop, by far. Mind you, I've never been spoiled by an RGBLED or IPS panel, but it's extremely impressive nonetheless.

 

A final point to consider.... I see Amazon is giving 20% discounts on a back to school sale of theirs, and the Quick Ship Envy 17-2010NR (non 3D) is eligible!

The caveat is that you have to use an Amazon.com Rewards Visa card and there's a $200 max. Details here. So, if you have the Amazon Visa, you can have the 2070NR for $1,169 shipped. I just called and had them credit me $200!

 

Thanks everyone. This is very helpful. I guess the heat issues were what I was most worried about. I agree with the point made about the 3D vs non-3D and how the 3D version seems to be worth it since you need to spec up the non-3D and it ends up being close in price.

Regarding the screen, I know the dv7t full HD screen is an anti-glare screen (matte or non-glossy), which was a nice addition. I just wasn't sure if the Envy screens were the really reflective bright screens like most HPs (and other PCs recently) or if it was like the anti-glare version.

Also, I don't think the non-3D version has a 30% off coupon right now, so I think the 3D version is actually cheaper.

I think I might skip on having HP put the SSD in and just put it in after market since I don't need a large secondary SSD and it seems really expensive to buy it directly installed by HP. Have many people done that (install the secondary SSD personally)?

I guess I am just curious why anyone is getting the dv7t over the Envy when they end up being so close in price? I always thought it was because the Envy had some issues or something.

 

The heat issue continually comes up because the first generation of the Envy's could heat up to almost skin burning temps on the left palm rest. Sometimes this was over exaggerated, however no matter what the actual temps were; they were quite unpleasant for most people who put the notebook on their lap and their hands on the palm rest.

Fast forward to the current generation and those claims are no longer valid. Sure there *might* be a case of a poorly minted notebook where the thermal paste wasn't properly applied or a dead/slow fan causes the metal casing to conduct more heat than usual, but these are not normal expectations and should be sent in for repair.

Now, some people will point out that the Envy does get very warm when the CPU/GPU is pushed to the max for a long period of time (ie. gaming, rendering, etc.). This is quite normal for the machine and the internal monitoring circuits will keep the machine from overheating. Honestly, any (powerful) notebook will have this problem unless it has a dedicated cooling solution like an Alienware or the Asus Stealth bomber (ie. very loud fans). It's just the nature of sticking so much horsepower in a small case with very little room for airflow.

As for the SSD, go for it. There are a lot of people who have done it. However, if you buy your Envy with a single HDD, you will need to procure an additional drive caddy to add a SDD (or HDD) aftermarket. The main Envy 17 thread has info on where to buy the caddy.

P.S. I'm writing this from a Dell Latitude E6400 and the left palm rest is currently warm; and my cpu's are averaging only 10% utilization.

 

So, after chewing on this decision for way to long, I think I am definitely going to buy the Envy 17 3D with the following specs:

• Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
• System Recovery DVD
• Intel Core i7-2630QM (2.0 GHz, 6MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 2.9 GHz
• 1GB GDDR5 Radeon HD 6850M Graphics [HDMI]
• 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 750GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• One 6-Cell and One 9-Cell Lithium Ion Battery
• 17.3" diagonal Full HD HP 3D Ultra BrightView Infinity LED Display (1920x1080)
• Blu-ray player & SuperMulti DVD burner
• HP TrueVision HD Webcam
• Intel 802.11a/b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) with Wireless Display Support
• Backlit Keyboard with numeric keypad
• Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 9 & Adobe Premiere(R) Elements 9

My reasons?

• Build Quality: My last laptop (a decent Sony Vaio) lasted for a long time (6 years) but got pretty beat up around the edges, and if the build quality is as superior on the Envy as compared to the DV7T, then I think it is worth it.
• Graphics Card: I do a fair amount of 3D modeling (not much gaming), but if it helps in maintaining performance when I open some complex models, then it will be worth it.
• Backlit Keyboard: Love it, but wasn't a game changer.
• Software: My wife wanted to get Photoshop Elements and Premiere eventually, and that would cost us nearly $100 anyway.
• Screen: Although I would actually prefer the matte HD screen that you can upgrade to on the DV7T, I hear this screen is gorgeous. I don't really care about the 3D, but won't decline it. I guess brightness and 120 hz will be nice.
• Hard Drive: They upped the price/upgrade on the DV7T 7200 rpm hard drive option anyway, so the price gap closed a bit. Although I plan to add a secondary SSD eventually (see question below).
• Heat: This was the sticky issue for me. My Vaio used to get freakishly hot, still does. Of course it was a 14" lightweight with decent horsepower, but I really disliked that. Although, from what I hear the new Envy's don't get that hot and people have said that the DV7T gets pretty warm too. So I'll just deal with it.

Total Price with 30% coupon: $1,211.69 (+$76.94 tax) = $1,288.63

Anyway, I wanted to just thank everyone for the help. I also had one or two final questions:
First of all, is there anything you notice in the build above that you would change? Any accessories I should seriously consider purchasing?

I need a new printer anyway and would prefer to get one that has the air-print (wirelessly print from mobile devices through email function) feature. Should I go with a bundle or just buy it separately? Anyone have experience with that?

Finally, the secondary SSD: I am really interested in this, but have little experience. I know I can get the caddy and put one in after market, which seems cheaper. I don't need anything fancy, but if I could get a decent bumb in boot speeds and especially in application load speeds, that would be awesome. So, what is the best practice for these? Do you simply put the OS and all applications on the SSD and put files or media on the HDD? I don't have many intensive programs, so I don't think I'll need a ton of space (maybe 60 -80 GB?). Any recommendations on brand or models? Also, did you need to wipe and do a fresh install of Windows 7 on the SSD, and if so, can you get ride of the bloatware that I assume will be on it? (This is why I got the recovery disk, if there is a better way, let me know)

Thanks everyone a ton. I plan on ordering tomorrow sometime, so if you have any words of wisdom, I am all ears!

 

Also -

Any Warranty / Care packages recommended? Especially in light of the HP developments, although I know they have said that they will continue to honor warranties.

It comes with a standard 2 year warranty, though. Thoughts?

 

IndyTF congratulations that is indeed a sweet system. you've here are a few comments:

printer bundles -- its all about price -- I would check out the bundles and see if there is a price advantage.

SSD: first, note that if you install an SSD it won't be a "secondary SSD". the idea is to replace your primary HDD with the SSD, so the SSD becomes the bootable/primary OS drive. The reason you need the additional hardware or caddy is that the space in the Envy that is reserved for a secondary hard drive is not prepared for one, and doesn't even have the right cable -- in case you want to fill that space with the HDD that you just replaced with the SSD.

frankly, given your interests I would seriously consider purchasing the Envy with the 300GB SSD option (300GB SSD + 750GB HDD). with the 30% coupon the price becomes attractive compared to after market drives. The Intel SSD's shipped with the Envy don't win the latest benchmark tests, but they are solid performers in the areas that you will notice in actual practice. To be honest, unless you are a benchmark junkie or have specific identifiable performance requirments met only by the latest drives, you probably wouldn't notice the difference anyway. One benefit of buying the SSD from HP is that the configuration will be covered by HP for two years, and you won't have to play games with mfgs blaming each other if the combination doesn't work. Its a personal choice but if you want the whole package supported by HP, getting support from HP will be easier this way.

thats said there are some fine SSDs emerging right now, from very reputable mfgs. The Kingston 240GB hyperx comes to mind, and it is a $500 investment plus the "caddy" hardware to utilize on the 2nd bay. re-installing the OS on the after market SSD is time consuming but not that difficult, so if you're up to it, it can be done. just remember that you have to return your Envy to factory condition to send it back for repairs, or even if HP comes out to your house they may be confused by anything but factory hardware and will only be obligated to return things to factory condition. AFter market SSDs do not void any warranty, but they can make the support experience more difficult raise additional questions. For this reason, there is merit to keeping the HP-supplied primary HDD, just so it can be put back in.

this subject is being discussed over in the Envy 17 owners lounge as well.

as for the recovery disks -- thats just a personal choice. you can build them yourself or puchase them. the result is the same.

the care packs are good if you really want in-home repairs or think you will risk an accidental drop or spill. the std 2 year warranty is for phone/chat/email support and hardware, but the latter often requires that you send in your Envy to HP. If you're ok with the latter, then the care packs start to loose their appeal, especially if you insure yourself against accidental drops and spills.

 

Thanks DL! I appreciate the thorough response.

SSD: I get the primary/secondary comments and apologize for the misuse of lingo. I guess my hesitation in getting the 300GB SSD offered by HP is the price. I don't think I really need that much space and it is a $500 upgrade (not including the 30% discount, so $350 with the discount). I guess I was thinking that I could buy a smaller drive for around $100 and get about the same benefit since I don't need much space on it, right? I mean, you really get the most benefit from putting the OS and commonly used applications on the SSD, right? So how much space would I need?

Actually, How much of a benefit am I going to get out of this? To be honest, I've really always just been curious about doing it, and the videos I've seen from the boot times look awesome. Are there other 'in-application' benefits that you get? I just don't know if it is worth the several hundred dollars to gain the few seconds you get.

In other words, sell me on this. ; ) Really just curious.

 

yea you're asking the right questions . $350 for a 300 GB SSD guarenteed to work by HP in your Envy for 2 years is bargain compared to today's after market. It depends on how close you are watching the dollars, but for $100 yes you can get older and smaller SSDs, but you'll be on your own and the warranty/reliabilty may not be there. many have done it, and some IT competance is requried to work around various compatibility issues. Generally at the $1/GB price point after market, the risks start going up. The after market for the more recent drives is at $2/GB, approximately.

The DV7t and 30% coupon hit the sweet spot for me --To me it was worth it because it was only $175 for the 160GB drive option... To be honest the main app for me on this system, Photoshop and Photosho Lightroom, benefits in these areas:

1. the app loads quicker
2. Photoshop LIghtroom reads and writes constantly to the disk during photo adjustments. The benefit is measureable, even if not dramatic.
3. If I ever ran out of RAM (not likely, but it could happen...), the page file can reside on the SSD, which is a great benefit compared to having the pagefile on the HDD. yea I know some recommend putting the pagefile on the HDD but not microsoft...
4. you'll have to look into whether app performance (in addition to app loading) wil benefit for the apps you use. Generally the app loading time is the biggest benefit though. if an app's performance beneifts substantially from the SSD I'd expect very large amounts of data are involved (say, video work) in which case the cost for such a large SSD is prohibitive.

 

Alright, so now you are bringing the DV7T back into play. Anyway, I don't see how I can get the 160GB SSD for $175 even including the 30% coupon. I see it as $420 (pre-discount for just the SSD, no secondary drive, $294 after discount). Was there a special deal?

I agree that a 300GB SSD would be awesome and seems reasonable for the price. I guess I just figured I wouldn't need that much.

I plan on using this thing for the occasional light photoshop job, light graphic design, and mostly 3D modeling (often in SketchUp - an OpenGL program). So I go back and forth on how much it is worth it. Originally, I had my heart set on the DV7T, but then I realized the ENVY was only $120 more for a bright 3D screen (although I prefer matte), better graphics, and better build quality.

I can't be the only one that has been frustrated with the DV7T vs Envy question. At this point the only drawback to the Envy for me is the potential heat issues (and I wish I could get a matte screen, but that's not huge for me.).

 

As others on this board will attest to I also have struggled very much with the same debate you're going thru.

I even ordered a dv7t Quad Edition about 2 or so weeks ago. However I ended up returning it. The reasons are multiple but in the end I found out that the wireless card in the dv7t QE is NOT the same as the one in the Envy series. I was willing to give up the better graphics card in the Envy, the backlit keyboard, and the build quality of the Envy line. All in order to go with the dv7t which although cheaper I liked the dark umber color and design of the laptop. However I wasn't willing to settle for a single band wireless card whereas the Envy 17 has the dual band wireless card.

Its sad really. The dv7t had the fingerprint reader as well which I love only cuz I'm lazy and it makes logging into Windows and other places very easy. And the ability to get a "Full HD" 1080p screen on the dv7t is what made me initially buy it.

However like I said the wireless card issue was just too much. I think in the end the Envy's benefits far outweigh the few things its lacking.

And as I'm typing this the Envy which I received last night is besides me and I must say its really quite stunning in real life. The pictures on HP's website are no where near as nice as having it right in front of you. Even the flowery/swirly pattern looks quite sophisticate when you're looking at it head on.

 

Thanks for the response! This is the kind of feedback that helps. And I'm glad to know that you went through this struggle as well - probably more if you bought one and returned it.

Now that you have the Envy in hand, do you find the build quality really that much superior to the DV7T? Any heat issues (I know you just got it).

 

As far as build quality I can only go by the dv6 and dv7's that I've held and played with at my local BB. Don't get me wrong. They feel and look fine. It's just with the Envy you feel like you're holding a very solid well put together laptop. A whole nother level of craftsmanship which is probably due in large part to the aluminum body.

Heat wise I havent had any issues or concerns to note. By far it's the coolest laptop I've ever had. It got slightly warm after a few hours but even then I only noticed cuz I lifted it up and went feel beneath the laptop. Plus it wasnt the scorching hot that my HDX 18t had nor my moms old dv5. And this is with a 750GB 7200RPM HDD from HP....

Once I get an SSD in there it should be even better from what I hear. Hope this all helps.

 

It helps a ton! I very much appreciate your feedback and perspective.

So you are considering putting an SSD in later? I had the same thought. Curious though: did you consider just having HP put the 300 GB SSD in for you? Why not?

 

just a comment on the wireless. dual band by itself isn't that big of a deal to me, although the Envy's card will support wireless "A" which the DV7 will not. but in terms of compatibility (with "A") thats not going to matter because very few WAPs out there are "A" only.

The benefit if the Envy's wireless card is that it is capable of higher data rates. If sustained, large-sized downloads or streaming is important, then the Envy will be better positioned to support your requirements. for me, its not a big deal.

The question of putting in an after market SSD versus purchasing from HP is a matter of cost vs performance. you have basically three choices

1. At about $1/MB you have a fair collection of yesteryear SSDs which you can pick up for a bargain in the aftermarket. choose carefully; look for warranty/reliability topics, stay tuned to the mfgs forurms for example and learn what gotchas are evident. plan on applying some IT competance to the project.

2. with the 30% coupon, HP's shipping SSDs (SSD + HDD combo) fall into the 'near' $1/GB price point, when compared with a dual HDD configuration in the same model. The Intel SSDs shipped by HP are solid performers and guarenteed by HP to work in your laptop for two years. Unless you have specialized needs or want to play in benchmark contests, these drives will give you all the benefits and snappy performance of the latest products emerging today.

3. at about $2/GB there are some fine SSDs emerging now ,and the Kingston HyperX is one example. If ulimate performance and benchmark bragging rights are at the top of your list, then these guys are the bees knees. Also, if you have known and specific app needs that require performance points met only by the latest and greatest, then you'll want to go aftermarket for one of these guys. Kingston in particular is good at supporting their products, so this one would be high on my list. They also have a very good warranty and since Kingston is no flash in the pan, they are an excellent choice.

The transition from HPs shippped configuration to using an aftermarket SSD has some variations. the one I personaly prefer is what TheAtreidesHawk is doing -- order the Envy with a single HDD and replace it with an aftermarket SSD plus an aftermarket HDD. Instead of moving the HP HDD to the 2ndary bay, purchase an after market HDD instead. this allows you to use the HP drive to return your Envy to the as-shipped configuration if needed for support or repair.

One variation is to order the Envy with dual HDDs and replace one of them with an aftermarket SDD. this is doable, but more difficult, and requries that you break the RAID0 array as shipped by HP, and so it becomes more difficult to return the laptop to the as-shipped configuration if needed.

The DV7 has a similar but more attractive variation (order it with dual HDDs) but since RAID0 is not available on the DV7, this option is good because the shipped primary drive can simply be replaced with the aftermarket SSD, and the shipped configuration has all of the necessary hardware to use both drive slots.

If it were me, and had I already comitted to the Envy for its benefits, my first choice would be to order the 300GB SSD combo from HP because its cheeper, covered by HP warranty, and there are no questions about after market parts, cables, or hardware purchases. BUt if I wanted absolutely the best SSD possible for specific reasons (per above) I'd go the route that TheAtreidesHawk is taking.

 

I think right now I am going to opt out of the SSD and stick with the HDD. It is certainly a better hard drive than what I am using now, and theoretically, I should be able to add an SSD at a later date and maybe even wait for prices to go down a bit. It is definitely a 'nice-to-have' not 'need-to-have' option in my current situation.

If there was an 80 or 100 GB option, I think I would definitely do it. I just am not ready to spend $400 (after discount) on it at this point.

I really appreciate all the information you've provided though. It is extremely helpful. Eventually, I'd like to take Option 3 and get a nice SSD in there, but at this point I should be fine with the 7200 rpm drive provided by HP.

 

I hear you. in fact, once one is committed to the Envy, the price tag of the SSD does give one pause. I can only assume that you chose the Envy because you need/want the latest state of the art, and if you're going to spring $400 for and SSD you'd rather hit the SSD state of the art a bit better, and when the need becomes clearer.

I had actually come to that conclusion myself over the DV7 (to watch the SSD market for a while) until I realized that I was already committed to dual drives (necessary in my case) and so the incremental price to make one of those an SSD was only $!75ish, so I couldn't resist. thats the difffernece between 2x750GB and the 160GB SSD plus 500GB 7200.

Once you are committed to a non-SSD configuration, though, you have one other option in the Envy to improve HDD performance, and that is to order dual HDDs which will come configured in RAID0. This is an HDD perforrmance advantage because files are spread across both drives, which will appear as one drive; thus both drives contribute at the same time. just something else to consider, even though I think you have a great plan, and a wonderful laptop which will accept an aftermarket SSD in the future to make it even better.

congratualtions on your decision and now you can look forward to ordering a great laptop at a bargain price. these 30% off coupons make the ENvy very attractive indeed.

 

FYI, if you are stuck with HDD performance (RAID or not), you can boost performance in Windows 7 (or Vista) with a ReadyBoost drive. You can buy cheap 4GB, 8GB or 16GB slim USB sticks off eBay (8GB is sufficient though). The Lexar® Echo ZE Backup Drive makes a great one. They can be plugged into your laptop and forgotten. You'll need to reformat the USB stick with NTFS if you are planning to use more than 4GB of ReadyBoost space. I do this all of the time now on older systems where buying an SSD is not justifiable.

It's no replacement for an SSD, but its pretty darn cheap for the benefit.

Also, if your system bios is configured to boot from USB first, it can slow down your initial boot time as the device needs to timeout (or worse, you might get an OS not found error). Simple changing the boot order in the bios fixes this.

 

Took the dive, finally. After months of agonizing over the DV7T, it's OpenGL issues and then the Envy comparison saga, I finally placed an order for the Envy I wanted tonight. Expected ship date is Sept. 13. Very excited to check this thing out.

Just wanted to thank the people in this thread that helped answer a bunch of questions.

Cam121 - I might want some more detail about your ReadyBoost drive solution. It sounds very interesting. Is there a forum/thread on the subject?

 

what OpenGL issues? mine runs Furmark just fine on both the IGP and the GPU. That aside there are other reasons to opt for the Envy, i.e. wireless card, backlit keyboard, slot-load optical, and a "front side bus" that will run at 1600 MHz if the processor and RAM agree to do so

 

He's probably referring to the issues that the dv7t QE members were having a while back with the graphics card(s) and OpenGL dlleno.

It was apparently a serious deal but they got it worked out eventually from what I understand. This is when I was considering getting a dv7t.....

Congrats on getting the Envy though IndyTF! Hope it arrives in pristine condition! Definitely post in the "Owners Lounge" if you need anything or have any comments/questions....

EDIT: Hey dlleno you know how we were discussing whether I really need to or should make Recovery Discs from the stock HP drive? Well I think I'm just gonna purchase the recovery dvd from HP and save myself some time....

 

Exactly. The ENVY apparently never had this issue. It's fixed now, but by the time it was fixed on the DV7T QE, I was already interested in and comparing the ENVY.

Thanks for all the help, guys. I'm excited to receive it and get it all set up. I'm sure I'll still be around once I get the Laptop, just trying to catch up on all the information on these forums. I've really enjoyed this forum and appreciated the detail people have in answering your questions. It's been a lifesaver, and I am positive I have a better laptop for a better price because I read up on the threads in this place.

 

Not that I know of but ReadyBoost isn't exactly rocket science. After you plug in the USB stick, (backup the included software if you want it) reformat the device with NTFS (Explorer > Right click on USB drive > Format). After it's formatted, I believe there is a ReadyBoost option in the right click menu; but if not, choose properties and then the ReadyBoost tab. Choose to dedicate the device to ReadyBoost, click OK, you're done. Windows will build the ReadyBoost cache in the background.

You can only use ReadyBoost with a HDD. If you have a SDD, it will detect that and grey out the options (since SSD's are faster than USB flash).

P.S. In my case, I usually change the USB drive letter to R: prior to creating the ReadyBoost cache. When you plug external drives into your windows pc they are arbitrarily given the next available drive letter unless a prior assignment is available at the onset of detection. You don't have to do this, I just find it "cleaner" to assign drive letters to certain devices so they are always accessed at the same entry point (ie. drive letter).

 

congratualtions IntyTF and TheAtreidesHawk good to have you guys around. The Envy has some important benefits over the DV7, esp gaming, 3D, and streaming content over wireless, and a faster potential "front side bus". lest anyone doubt, however, the DV7 runs OpenGL just fine out of the box now (no BIOS update needed because they are shipping with the latest ,now), and has an interesting techology for battery life not present on the Envy, and that is Bus Alive chip off. the 6770 GPU is powered down under Intel Switched graphics mode, saving additional power. I don't even use dynamic switchable graphics, but the CCC allows me to pick 6770 or IPG at any time, which find most useful. In addition, the 160GB SSD is wonderful and cost effective, and the matte, 1080p panel is indeed a 72% gamut, quite nice for those who do not need 3D.

as for the recovery DVDs, yea thats totally a cost vs time issue. you can spend an hour feeding DVDs into your Envy, or just buy em from HP; the result is the same.

 

I apologize ahead of time, because I know this question has been asked and answered a number of times in a couple of threads but I've been searching for an hour and can't find the info. Is the 1080p panel on the Envy 17 2D the same as the one of the DV7 - i.e. is it a matte finish with 72% gamut. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one of these two and am leaning towards the 2D version of the Envy but want to make sure the 1080p panel is matte and 72% gamut.

 

It's not matte and I'm 50% (yeah, I know, not reassuring) it's 72% gamut.

 

Thanks! That definitely helps me as I definitely want a matte finish.

 

To my satisfaction, folks here have established that the display found in the 2D Envy is indeed gloss (I've not seen one) and HP itself declares it to be 72% gamut. also in favor of the Envy, one has to consider other things too, namely wireless and a stronger GPU.

having sung the praises of the Envy 17 I my own decision was to go for the DV7. If the 2D platform is important, the DV7 is fabulous. I will say that the 1080p matte finish display on this puppy outstanding. I also like the styling better, and it turns out that those areas in which the Envy is superior are not important to me. coming from a glossy display DV8000t, I absolutely add my vote to the "matte is better" camp.

While HP nowhere states that the DV7 1080 panel is a 72% gamut, we know this is true by crossing the display panel model reported by hwinfo32, for example, to a real OE device with published specs. My DV7 reports AUO B173HW01 V5

 

Thanks for the input. I think I will probably end up going with the DV7.

I really like everything about the Envy, but the most important piece of the laptop for me is the display. And a matte screen with good color gamut is the one must-have requirement for whatever laptop I get.

 

bingo for me as well. there's one other benefit to the DV7, and that is with the 30% coupon, the smaller (than the Envy) 160GB SSD becomes quite affordable. If you are committed to dual disk drives, the "160+500" option is a good one to consider. I am loving my DV7 with the SSD.

 

@ dlleno

Did you say that the color gamut is the same for both the Envy and the dv7?

I know you mentioned the "nit" difference. But I think I missed the other part...