Ok so Lenovo don’t count 1 pixel as a fault. I need 5 stuck pixels for a replacement panel… So compared to Alienware who have a zero pixel policy, lenovo are inferior.
However as I’m within 14 days in uk I can cancel and re-order however there’s no stock on the uk website. Shame the pixel is in the centre of the screen. If it was in the corner id probably just accept it.
In all honesty as it’s new, I don’t think I would have wanted a tech to dissemble it anyway as it’s a full strip down to replace the panel on these.
-
Hopefully this helps everyone out on the ram decision (at least pre-XMP bios available to everyone). 64gb hyper X cl20 fury finally arrived. No improvement in latency at all for me versus stock, however modest CPU bump as others have been seeing (probably secondary timings matter most). This result is with the same room temp, same GPU driver, same overclocks, and same undervolt as my first run on page 39. Aggregate is 6% CPU bump, 1% overall. Some CPU bound games may see a bigger bump as many are reporting. Also, I can confirm 64gb works fine- I was able to get the fury 64gb cl20 kit for ~$330 shipped. AVA direct, provantage, and CDW would be best places to get it from, amazon has some pricier but ship quick. I need the 64gb so was worth it for me to upgrade.MagillaGorilla and Atma like this. -
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
I've tested the following:
Stock Samsung 32GB 2x16 1Rx8 3200 CL22
GSkill 32GB 2x16 2Rx8 3200 CL18
Kingston HyperX/Fury 64GB 2x32 2Rx8 3200 CL20
Ballistix 32GB 2x16 2Rx8 3200 CL16
Kingston HyperX 32GB 2x16 1Rx8 3200 CL20
Even WITH Advanced BIOS, we are not able to set Dual Rank kits in GEAR 1 mode.. This definitely handicaps them, and as a result, yes no latency improvement over the Stock SINGLE RANK kit. Not only no improvement, it's actually worse than running the Stock kit at GEAR 1 (memory enhanced).
Other notes:
- Only the Samsung and Kingston 32GB 1Rx8 kits can enable GEAR 1.
- With Advanced BIOS I had the Samsung at CL18 @ 1.3v with 64ns latency, and the Kingston at CL17 @1.3v with 59ns
- All of the Dual Rank kits are handicapped by the Gear1 limitation, and they were all above 70ns in AIDA regardless of XMP or not..
PS. This info is applicable to anyone with the stock Single Rank kit (Samsung or Micron), anyone that was unfortunate enough to receive a Stock Dual Rank kit (2Rx8) , they can still benefit from upgrading to a new kit with faster timings.
I ended up keeping the Kingston single rank kit, and yet, it's still only minimally better than the stock kit.
The only benefit (for now, until GEAR 1 on Dual Rank is possible, if ever) is higher scores/benches on CPU-intensive tasks/games, and it's not by much. -
The advanced BIOS gives the benefit of better timings via XMP even on the stock sticks, am I right?
How’s that advanced BIOS coming? Any new news since someone mentioned it had bricked a couple laptops. -
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
FYI, GEAR1 on regular BIOS downclocks the stock RAM to 2933Mhz. (still faster/on-par with dual ran kits.
I ran the stock sticks with Custom Timings not XMP (not sure the stock kit has an XMP profile to be honest), should've mentioned that in my previous post.
BIG Disclaimer: My BIOS is not the same Advanced BIOS floating around, mine was manually unlocked with RU.EFI, H2OUVE, and FPTW so I have all options available.. It is my understanding that the available Adv. BIOS has XMP and Custom timings, BUT you cannot adjust the voltage.
FYI users are still bricking their systems but most have been able to recover by clearing CMOS/allowing the BIOS to 'self-heal'.. so it's still very temperamental -
You guys are talking only a about Intel machines isn't it?
-
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
-
The first public release of Legion Fan Control is now available. https://www.legionfancontrol.com/
If you want support or more info join the #Legionfancontrol-chat discord. https://discord.gg/QfuRCWp5
Its also available in #downloads in Discord https://discord.gg/QzvaKuazMagillaGorilla, adampk17 and saturnotaku like this. -
saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate
Does Legion Fan Control support the new Slim 7 laptop?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
Based on your data, is a dual rank 3200 mhz cl20 or cl22 kit in gear 2 faster or slower than a single rank 3200 mhz (2933 mhz) cl20 kit in gear 1? No XMP enabled in both cases. -
-
Okay my Legion 5 Pro 5800h 3070 power failure was not from the cable. It did it again like 5 times in a row. It’s going back. It just keeps resetting.
-
-
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
Frequency = overall speed
Latency = quickness to start/stop tasks
Timings = the settings that dictate how the RAM should operate
I know my results are all over the place.. I tried different combinations, but due to the bios crashing a few times, it was very time consuming to restore.. So I wasn’t able to run nearly as many tests as I would’ve liked to.
That said, based on my findings, a dual rank 2Rx8 kit at 3200 cl20-22, is slower than the stock single rank 1Rx8 kit running at 2933 Gear 1.
The L2/L3 caches are probably close, but the latency is much improved for the Stock kit at Gear1.. (70ns compared to 84+)ancef likes this. -
Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
-
ancef likes this.
-
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
The CPU performance bump you experienced is def related to sub-timings, including tRFC (especially if comparing ~560 to the stock ~860 or whatever it is).
As for how lower latency ram impacts CPU-bound games, I had to go digging, but found someone that was able to articulate it well:
"Latency affects frame-times for games with a core data set larger than the CPU's cache.
Any object that needs to be checked for render calls and any object affected by player actions, physics or AI needs to be loaded from RAM with every single frame drawn, and every single of these actions will have the CPU waiting on the RAM for the duration.
Once you move to higher FPS targets (above 60) latency starts to show an effect. Too high RAM latency can cause missed frames (stuttering) and bottleneck GPU's.
For productivity, latency is important for applications that require a large amount of random access to large data sets - database apps can't get low enough latency, and scale well."
So it seems one can achieve high bench scores despite higher latency.. Sub-timings, and even overall capacity definitely play a role (32gb vs 64gb).
BUT in actual gaming scenarios with user-inputs (where you desire low input-lag) you would benefit from lower latency RAM.Last edited: Sep 10, 2021ringoffire, ancef, Atma and 1 other person like this. -
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
OC:
CPU 4.8Ghz All Core
GPU +165/+1600
Cooling:
LM on CPU, Kryo on GPU
Additional Info:
External display, ambient room 19c, laptop was near central AC vent
Happy to finally crack 14k GPU score!
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/22752525ringoffire, ancef, Kalen and 1 other person like this. -
Is there anything you don't have #1 in yet?
MagillaGorilla likes this. -
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
I ❤️ this machine, Lenovo really nailed the thermal design.Atma likes this. -
If anyone would like the stock paste in a sheet format you can just cut and lay on the cpu and gpu you can get it here. Same place I ordered the paste. https://www.ebuy7.com/item/651662476286 The paste, from what I can understand, has to cool at ambient temperature for 15 hours before putting on the heat sink.
saturnotaku likes this. -
MagillaGorilla and Atma like this.
-
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
Again, love this machine
But, this is the score I’m chasing:
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/20531317
It’s the damn MSI 165w continuous TGP that’s killing me. That, or he/she’s shunt moddedLast edited: Sep 10, 2021 -
MagillaGorilla and Atma like this.
-
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
I see some chilling/extra cooling involved, and maybe even shunt mod. That or the temps are allowing it to sustain.. Either way, Nice!!
I won’t be shunting, and already at the 11980hk’s limit.
Still prefer the 7i’s footprint tho -
So I have pulled apart both a Legion 5 Pro and a Legion 7 (AMD versions) and I am pretty sure both are effectively the same motherboard, with only daughter board changes to account for different ports, color of the PCB, and some minor component changes (for example the ribbon cable connection for the light bar is absent on Legion 5 Pro).
This makes sense to me as it would be less R&D and better economy of scale for Lenovo, as the core specifications of the chassis can be the same between models.
In theory one could make a 3080 vapor chamber Legion 5 Pro by swapping the motherboards and the cooling solution. Lenovo also could have made this, but I suspect they knew it would cut into the sales of the Legion 7 to get a 3080 variant a bit cheaper without the aesthetic upgrades (which mean nothing to me, but perhaps for other people).
EDIT: There is just enough difference in the chassis to prevent a direct swap. The screws for the fans which connect to the hinge location are in slightly different locations. If you ground off the alignment studs it would probably work.
Keyboard on Legion 7 is pretty bad for me. There is almost no key travel. The keyboard on my ipad and my thin and light has more travel than the Legion 7's. Also not all the keys are the same height, and because there is so little travel it can be evident on closer inspection. It is also noisier with less consistent noises across the keys compared to the Legion 5 Pro likely for the same reason. Instead of the typical dull thud of the Legion 5 Pro keys, it is a much more audible tap as the key bottoms out on the chassis.
Also because the keyboard color matches the chassis finish, and the letters are white, in certain lighting it is almost impossible to see the lettering on the keys without back light, whereas the contrast of the black keyboard of the Legion 5 Pro prevents this.
I don't really understand this design choice. It may have made the laptop a hair thinner than the Legion 5 Pro, but the loss of the extra 1/2mm of key travel was not worth it on a laptop this heavy. The legion 5 pro keyboard is far superior for a typing experience unless you are a very light and lithe tapper of the keys.
The Laptop is overall thinner than the 5 Pro (probably same as non pro) but again this is not noticeable because of weight and size. The rest of the dimensions are also smaller slightly but only due to the design choices of the 5 pro aesthetic.
The sound is supposed to be better on the Legion 7 with notably larger speakers (almost twice the area), and more audio customization, but in practice I think this is lost because they face STRAIGHT DOWN, where all other models have at least angled speaker ports to direct the sound out. This had to be done because of the light bar took up too much of the chamfer to fit the speaker properly. So they sacrificed sound quality for lighting. Now I realize that speakers on a laptop aren't that great anyway.
Overall, unless you need the 3080 and the 5900hx or top Intel chip, or really want the aesthetics, or a lid that can fold down all the way flat, I think the Legion 5 pro is the better buy and nicer machine.
One last thing I forgot to mention is that the Thermal Paste on the Legion 7 seems different from that on the Legion 5 Pro. It was not dried out, and appeared to have silver metal embedded into it. I discovered it when I pulled off the vapor chamber, and tried to clean off the paste with alcohol. It did not dissolve well and left a silver metal behind (this is not liquid metal), which had to be scraped off with a spudger. So I think you should leave the vapor chamber and thermal paste alone on this unit.Last edited: Sep 11, 2021 -
I prefer the typing experience on the 7 (and most reviewers do too including Jarrod's Tech ). I've never had any issues of difficulty seeing the keys either.
The 7 is just a better build all round.
Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk -
The difference in height between the two units is only about 2mm at its max point when they are both on the table. This is due to the curvature of the Legion 5 Lid. So if that is much thicker to someone so be it. I think it gets washed away with the rest of the size of the machine, and Jarrod mentions the same. The Legion 7 is slightly smaller footprint because the plastics of the Legion 5 Pro stick out more.
As far as the colors of the Legion 5 Pro, there are actually only 2. The gray aluminum finish, which is slightly darker than the Legion 7's, and the dark plastic of the keyboard and vents and the bottom plate being black. If you wish to count the bottom being a different color because it is aluminum vs plastic then it could be 3 colors.
The Legion 7 also has 2 (or again 3 depending on how you look at it), but it is much more hidden. The lighter gray aluminum, (slightly different shade on the plastic keys of course), and the rear grill which is black plastic.
So it sounds like what you are saying is that you prefer a cleaner more uniform design overall.
As far as the contrasting keys being distracting, this is personal preference. Many laptops use contrasting keys, or a darker finish overall, particularly on business laptops and especially apple.
But for me it is not the contrast as much as the glare when you are unable to control the artificial light source. This is made worse by the keys being flat rather than dished. I had a similar problem on other laptops.
My bigger issue with the keyboard is the lack of consistency between the keys and the key presses on the Legion 7. Each key on the top row presses and sounds different from the other. Flex is noticeably worse on the left side of the keyboard and virtually stops around the Return key. Does this affect my ability to type? No but it is noticeable to me and not what I would expect from a more premium build. The Legion 5 pro also suffers from this to some degree, though not nearly to the same extent.
Most people can type better on short travel keys because you are not punished for over pressing (at least in the short term), and it is more difficult to under press on short travel keys. While there is less flex overall in the Legion 7 deck compared to the Legion 5 Pro this is largely due to the thinner keyboard and the metal top plate construction. However neither of my units has enough flex in the deck under normal typing to be noticeable. Not sure if this was Jarrod's specific unit or mine, but I do not appreciate nearly the amount of flex he demonstrates in the video on the Legion 5 Pro.
You can hear a little about how the keys sound different in the Legion 7 in his review though, some sound like normal short travel keys, others appear to slap the deck when pressed. Mine is worse.
Also in contrast to his video, my Legion 7 touch pad was noticeably more consistent in press pressure and registering clicks vs the Legion 5 Pro.
The biggest thing that bothers me about my particular Legion 7 is that the screen is noticeably inferior to the Legion 5 Pro. I don't have any dead pixels that I have seen, but the contrast, sharpness, color depth, max brightness are noticeably lower on the Legion 7, even from a couple meters away. (For clarity, this is same profile, background, brightness, etc). Given that there seem to be a number of Legion laptops with the 16" screen having some issues, I think this is not surprising. I was actually thinking about swapping out the displays, but that would be a lot of work.
With the Demand for laptops so high, it would make sense the QC is less strict, which explains the overall lack of consistency from one unit to another in the same line. You mention the build quality is superior on the Legion 7, I agree it should be, which is why I am more noticing of the small flaws and inconsistencies as the more premium build quality demands. -
I am currently also comparing a L5P (AMD) with a L7 (Intel). I first got the L5P a week ago and really like it but I was curious to see what I was missing with the "better" L7. So I got the L7 yesterday and have two main questions:
1) What I noticed right away, on the L7 there is a lot of play and flex at the bottom of the screen in the middle, as if something is not mounted properly there. You can also hear a strange noise when opening and closing. When the laptop is closed and you press very lightly on the back, it also bends a bit. The further you go to the hinges, the less it gets. The whole thing seems strange and not very solid. The L5P sits super tight in comparison and nothing wobbles. With the L7, I'm afraid that once the laptop is in the backpack or something similar, that something can break on the display attachment. I made a quick video showing this. https://www.reddit.com/link/pm30xi/...t&utm_name=LenovoLegion&utm_content=t3_pm30xi
I have only pressed very little force and know that some flex is normal, but that does not feel very solid I must say and especially compared to the L5P, the display feels very wobbly from the attachment. I also have two Thinkpads (X1 Extreme / T480) and their display attachment is rock solid in comparison to the L7.
Do you have that with your L7 too and is that normal?
2) I have two different panels in both machines. The L7 has the CSOT T3 MNG007DA1-1 the L5P the BOE NE160QDM-NY. They are both really bright and looks quite similar. But I personally felt the CSO panel had better black levels and therefore the colors come through a bit better. But I only noticed that when watching movies.
Which panels do you guys have in your L5P / L7? And are there any reviews or comparisons between the panels?
3) The L5P I got came without Windows and through some researach I found out that there is a X-Rite Pantone factory color calibration coming with it. So I installed X-Rite Color Assistent and downloaded the profile from the Lenovo cloud. I did not have to enter anything and I just had the profiles in X-Rite and it looks so much better. I was curious if the downloaded profile is a specific profile just for my unique panel or like a generic calibration file for the model? I was curious because there are different panels (see my point above) and if everyone is individually calibrated at the factory? -
I did not experience this with my Legion 7. Or rather, mine does have that play, but it does not creak or make noise. This is not the first time I have heard the Legion 7 having weird noise in the hinge.
The lid of the Legion 7 is thinner and more flimsy than the Legion 5 Pro. I believe this is one of the 2 areas that accounts for the difference in height between the two models. However I do not experience any distortion of the image when the panel is flexed. This tells me that at least on my unit the lid is fairly solid, and that it flexes as a unit without pressure points. However, my carrying case is padded over the lid.
The calibration is general to the Legion models with the 16:10 panel. It is not unique to the particular unit.
As far a panels I have the CSO as well I believe, so based on mine and other experience, as well as yours, there is substantial variation in tolerances that are being allowed for the units leaving the 'factory' to meet the demand.
To me it seems like they tried to make the Legion 7 more streamlined and premium and thinner, but there are consequences to this in the rigidity of the build -
-
What worries me is that it cracks strangely and the back bends slightly as soon as I lift the notebook up from the back when it is closed. I would be okay with the play/bend, because it seems there is a bit of space between the screen and the body and this might lead to that. But these crackles sound not good. It feels like two surfaces touching and getting released after that again. When I flex the panel I don't have any distortion (which is good I guess).
Also when I open and close the L7 there is mostly also a short crack near the hinges. Really not sure what to do because other than that everything is great and the panel is great with no bleeding. I actually prefer that over the BOE panel in the L5P which is also good but the blacks seem a bit better on the L7. The BOE panel in the L5P has a bit of bleeding on top which is only visible when watching movies or with really dark pictures though.
I would love to keep the L7 but these cracks and that wobble really worry me, especially with all the hinge problems of the 2020 model. I don't want to put 2k in a new laptop that has a broken hinge/screen after a few months and from what I have read Lenovo does not repair that under warranty.
What do you think?
I actually really like the L5P too, just the panel might be a bit worse, unfortunately I have not found a comparison from anyone else about the two panels, just the they are both used in L5Ps and L7sLast edited: Sep 11, 2021 -
I think it really comes down to what your needs and wants are.
As stated, if there are aspects of the Legion 7 that you prefer or require, the answer is straightforward.
If not is the screen so sufficiently better and will you be using it exclusively or an external monitor frequently enough to warrant the slightly worse screen acceptable.
You can try to return or exchange the Legion 7, but the limited availability coupled with the experiences of others here in the forum would lead me to believe you would simply get a refund, with no new availability for a couple months unless you are lucky.
Given that my screen is the same as yours, yet I experience the opposite situation leads me to believe that you would be gambling on the new panel being better, worse, or the same as unit consistency is poor. The devil you know... -
Thanks for your reply.
I actually tend to the L5P at the moment. If I would have gotten it with the CSO display I think my decision would be alot easier. But maybe I'm also making the display difference bigger than it is, because the BOE display is also used in L7 laptops and has also scored well in reviews. And the L5P unit is perfect aside the BOE display with a bit of backlight bleed.
I saw your review and I am sorry to hear you have also these experiences with the displays. Did you have the same panels in the L5P and L7 and it is still such a difference?
I thought about exchanging the L5P and hoping for the CSO display, but then I am afraid there might be other problems like coile whine/problems with the performance or even a worse display with more bleeding/pixel errors or so. Plus they store I ordered might get a few new ones, but after that they also have to wait for a new batch. So if that new unit is even worse, I might not get an L5P (especially for that really good price) for a while.
Similar with the L7 that is out of stock again where I ordered and they don't know when they get a new ones, so this can take months and is not really an option.
// Update: I have been testing the two in coditions like I would normally use them (mostly on the go) and I did not even notice big differences with the panels tbh, like when I am outside or in a bright room during the day. They are both really bright and look a lot better than most laptops screens in the 1,5-2k price range. I really prefer the L5P keyboard, it is really great to type on. I also like the whole body of the L5P, it just feels more sturdy and something I can carry around. I normally also use a mouse, so the trackpad does not matter that much. I also ran benchmarks (Cinebench / 3D Mark) and they were so close together that the performance is really really similar. Battery life is indeed better on the L5P, feels like 30-40% more. I am pretty sure I stick with the L5P and save the 400 bucks the L7 would be more.Last edited: Sep 12, 2021 -
Glad you can figure it out. I am not so fortunate with my panels. Despite being the same panel, the L5P is notably better in every respect. Can get brighter, darker, and the picture and colors are better.
-
-
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
So F’ing close to 14k…
CPU 4.9Ghz All Core
GPU +180/+1400
Power profile: Fans at 85% using Fan Control, ambient room 18c
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/22814478
Took FireStrike while I was it : https://www.3dmark.com/fs/26253439
and might as well get the Triple Crown: https://www.3dmark.com/pr/1216593
Last edited: Sep 13, 2021wikileaker, Kalen and werdmonkey4321 like this. -
I am sorry to hear with your panel in the L5P - do you prefer the L7 much over the L5P? I actually prefer the L5P over the L7 with its built and keyboard. -
werdmonkey4321 Notebook Evangelist
I only have an i7-11800H though so that limits my results a bit. I am running an Alienware X17 R1 with Kingston 3200 Mhz ram. I haven't tried overclocking the ram yet so I could probably squeeze a few more points from that, but ultimately I will be limited by my i7 processor in terms of overclocking. I also still haven't decided whether or not to shunt mod yet to knock Hidder Modder off the leaderboards(they are running a 200W shunt modded 3080 with overclocked ram as well).wikileaker and MagillaGorilla like this. -
MagillaGorilla Notebook Consultant
Yea I’m pretty amazed with this machine, and definitely lucked out on both CPU & GPU.
I’ve shuntmodded my Razer’s and desktop GPU’s before, but don’t think I’ll be doing that this time.. quite content with 14k+ GPU score!werdmonkey4321 likes this. -
-
werdmonkey4321 Notebook Evangelist
MagillaGorilla likes this. -
-
-
-
Can you recharge the Legion 5 (2021) via USB-C 3.2 Power Delivery port?
-
Sent from my SM-G970W using TapatalkBullit likes this. -
atquantrandash93 Notebook Consultant
Is there a way to overclock the 3070 in the Legion 5 pro with 5800H? I'm using Afterburner, but the profile never sticks. Also, it only displays GPU temps while I'm gaming, nothing else. How can I fix that?
Sent from my LM-V450 using Tapatalk -
Just posting this here for posterity.
Got my L7 (5900hx / 3080) a week or so ago. Right speaker was stuffed out of the box, keeps randomly going to near zero volume for minutes/hours at a time and then going back to normal for a bit. Rinse and repeat. Checked all drivers, balances etc. No issue with headphones only the external speaker.
I bought the four years ultimate warranty (on site repair) so they’re ordering a new speaker to replace it with. No idea when it will arrive, but safer than getting a replacement laptop (which I was offered but no ETA on availability and I don’t want to be without a laptop for months).Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
Lenovo Legion 5/5 Pro/7 2021 Discussion
Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by saturnotaku, May 21, 2021.