Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga

I thought more of X series as design is very similar + magnesium frame + hdd protection system. It also looks like general feeling on lenovo forums

 

It is an part of the S-Series because:
- OneLink-Port and HDMI like the S440/S540 rather than the mechanical DockingPort and mDP like on X-Series
- The real model name of the ThinkPad Yoga is ThinkPad S240, it is also listed with this name in the roadmap (like the ThinkPad Twist was the S230u)
- The Design is absolutely the same, look at the pictures:

With the exception of the hinges and maybe the sides, the design is the same (the rounded front corners, the position of the outer Lenovo Logo, both S440 and Yoga are available in Silver)
- Look at this picture:

On the Logo plate, it says "ThinkPad S1", which is the name which the Yoga will have on the chinese market (full name: ThinkPad S1-S240 Yoga, like the ThinkPad S440, which is names ThinkPad S3-S440 in China)

All ThinkPad S-Models use Magnesium and Aluminium for their chassis, the Yoga is not an exception.

Yes: The Yoga replaces the X230t. But it also replaces the ThinkPad Twist (lower end models replace Twist, higher end models the X230t). But that does not mean it is an part of the X-Series.

 

I looked more closely into S series and unfortunately you may be right. But it is S series, anandtech says that s540 will have mini display port: AnandTech | Lenovo Announces New ThinkPad T, X, and S series Ultrabooks

Could anyone tell me main differences between X and S and what it means for Yoga? Less durable? Worse keyboard? Less rigid quality control?
I ask because only laptops that survived my usage where enterprise rugged ones (dell latitude i had ~8 years ago and my current hp elitebook), all others had lifetime of 6-18 months.

I really thought that this will be x240t with different name as the x series has great reviews for durability.
If this will be some cheaper quality notebook I will have to reconsider what to choose between this, x240 and ZBook14

 

Hey, thanks for clarification. I didn't see your post when I was writing my previous one

Do you know if onelink dock supports 1440p output?

Was so excited about this thinkpad yoga, and know not so sure about getting it.
I guess I will have to wait for reviews and do more research on S series and their durability (instead of ordering on release date) as it is not exactly what I thought it is.

Thanks!

 

The S-Series is not a low-quality series or something like that. Read the review on Notebookcheck of the S440: Review Lenovo ThinkPad S440 Touch Ultrabook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews The S-Series uses the same keyboard, the same chassis materials for the baseunit (Magnesium).

 

You would think so, BUT as testing on the original Ideapad Yoga 13. They found that the HD4000 didn't benefit much or at all from dual channel memory when comparing two laptops with the same CPU ect.

The HD5000 is much more important as it has double the graphic units then the HD4000, compared to the HD4400 which only has a 15% increase.

 

It will always be a better device when the next generation comes around. But tbh, its pretty great now and if you wait around an entire year then you lose an entire year of having an already great device.

Ofc if your in no rush to get a new laptop/tablet then its alright, but unfortunately im stuck for the moment and need a proper laptop and would love the Pen input and table tablet style device for my CAD stuff at uni

Need these bloody things to be released so I can be a day one buyer

 

The ThinkPad Yoga is made with a Magnesium alloy roll cage and is JUST as durable as the X series are. You won't have to worry about build quality on this device, its unlike Lenovo to have build quality issues and they do usually take alot of care with their products. About the dock, it can be converted to VGA using a HDMI to VGA converter that should be included in the Dock. This would bypass the resolution issue

Also as for multi monitor support. You can use the docks HDMI and the Laptops HDMI port at the same time, meaning you can use 2 external monitors at one time, ALSO you can use the laptop screen too so technically you could have 3 monitors at the same time

Lenovo OneLink Dock with Multiple Monitors - Lenovo Community

 

You shouldn't underestimate the impact of memory bandwidth, even for Intel graphics. When you look at Notebookcheck reviews of various Ultrabooks and Notebooks, and single channel ones are in the bottom of the scores in gaming(don't care about 3dmark).

And they even had single vs dual review: Performance and Scaling Overview of Intel HD Graphics 4000 - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

Another review using Notebook HD 4000: http://www.itsjustwhatever.com/2012...l-memory-for-your-hd4000-integrated-graphics/

That's way more than the pity 15-20% HD 5000 gets over HD 4400. It's disheartening how Lenovo uses single channel memory in so many of their Ultrabooks and Notebooks.

 

Thanks for great link. I think I will be happy with this level of build quality, even if it's not up up to X / T standards it seems ok to me. I am saying it may not be up to the same standard as S series seems priced lower than similar speced x/t series, but it may be just screen and connectivity.

Anyway this review was great and such build quality will be sufficient, screen will be much better on Yoga, plus I keep fingers crossed for inexpensive warranty upgrade to 3years on-site, very quick charging (++) and that "not replaceable" battery will also just be screwed inside, so maybe not swappable but definitely user replaceable if there is such need (+++).

Excited about the Yoga again, it's just this unfortunate hdmi left. I still think it's very poor decision by lenovo - it's aimed to professionals and small business, and i am both I really hope I will be able to get 2560x1440@60Hz from hdmi (dock++, yoga+). Looks like Intel added support for high res hdmi out in 15.31.9 driver for HD GPU ( Intel Iris/hd Graphics Driver 15.31.9.64.3165) and seen a post from viewsonic engineer who confirmed that monitor will work in full res over hdmi if hdmi outputs it. I guess I will order the yoga with the dock, get fastest hdmi 1.4 cable available and try everything possible including some hacks from the forums, and if it doesn't work I will have to send everything back

I am so keen on top build quality because from many many laptops i had in my life just 2 lasted - both were rugged business machines, first one was 12'' latitude that i had ~8 years ago, another one is my current 14'' hp elitebook 8440w that I have for over 3 years now. This machine is a tank, for over 3 years I was using it as main work machine and laptop, being on 60hrs/week, being dropped, it was even in the rucksack at 30mph motorcycle crash and it still works. The engineering is great (took it apart couple of times). I don't mind paying top money for such dependable machine Rest of many laptops I had lasted 3-18 months on light usage

My new laptop won't be used as main dev machine anymore, so I can go down in size and specs a little bit, and yoga is currently top of the list, especially as it would be my first thinkpad

Thanks again for all the info, helped a lot.

Cheers

 

Not worried about build quality anymore, think I will be happy with it. But i don't think you're right about the converter, if laptop or dock outputs 1080p and than i connect converter it won't magically upscale the signal. But i have hope, looks like intel added support for high res output over hdmi in new drivers, and seen confirmation from viewsonic engineer that monitor will work in 1440p over hdmi if it is fed such signal, so if Lenovo didn't screw it with some cheapest hdmi or irrational caps it should work (fingers crossed).

 

Well technically HDMI cables are just DVI cables with extra for Sound and even Ethernet nowadays. The only difference is the connector, so theoretically utilising a converter to vga could override the limits. But it just depends whether the limit is enforced by the dock itself and I doubt it will be as the dock is just going to be using the Intel output from the iGPU so if the iGPU supports 1080p+ via HDMI, the dock should

 

That sucks Not planning on gaming much or at all on this thing anyways.

Bit of SWTOR on low should be alright, maybe some random older games

 

Wait, I am confused. It seems that the test is to compare a X230t with a single 4GB dimm and the same X230t with double 4GB dimm? If so the difference could be because one is using 4GB RAM and the other is using 8GB RAM.

 

With two 4GB SO-DIMMs installed, (8GB) the max system memory used by Skyrim was about 2698MB (For a margin of error the author of the article rounded it up to 3000MB)
The HD4000 GPU was using 257MB of memory, which means the total amount of memory used was 3257MB. (3000MB Margin of error total + 257MB) Which is less than 4GB, or the total system RAM for the single memory test.

This means he never exceeded 4GB of memory while playing Skyrim with 8GB of RAM, so the extra 4GB did nothing to aid the score, it was the difference between dual and single channel memory that affect FPS.

Between Civ 5 and Skyrim, there was a 25.6% difference in FPS with dual vs single channel in that test.

Now compare those results to the Notebookcheck test, which used a 1x8GB DDR3 and 2x4GB DDR3 in Deus Ex.

In that test they got 28.8 FPS with 2x4GB and 21.5 FPS with 1x8GB. Or a 25.5% difference, which is about the same the result as the first experiment.

While I'm unhappy that the ThinkPad Yoga, X240 and Yoga 2 Pro use the HD 4400 over the HD 5000, (Supply & Demand?) it's made worse by the fact that Lenovo is using (Or might be using) Single channel memory in these devices. My guess is a HD 4400 with a single channel of memory will have the GPU capabilities of the HD 4000 in the 2012 MBA.**

**I got this by comparing the 3DMark 11 scores of the 2012 MBA (661) to the 3DMark 11 Scores of the Yoga 2 Pro (681) which probably has single channel memory.

 

If it works (and there is a big chance it will) than this is my next laptop
I know HDMI is just DVI, but to output 1440p you usually need Dual Link DVI (which is not compatible with hdmi) or DisplayPort. But as i said, fingers crossed with new intel drivers.
This Yoga with digitizer will be very appealing to people doing graphic design / CAD etc. and I can see big chunk of them wanting to dock multiple monitor or high-res monitor at some point, Lenovo should change miniHDMI to miniDP and add 1 DP next to HDMI in onelink dock and there would be no problem at all.

Bummer with single RAM, Does it affect just 3D? not planning to play games on this thing either, but would be nice to have an option to change mind about it

I wonder if Lenovo has history of introducing new Intel CPU options. Do you think it's possible they will add i7 HD5000 option few weeks after release? I am asking because HP was doing that in elitebook line when I was buying mine, also on S440 uk page ( ThinkPad S Series | Performance Small-Business Laptops | Lenovo (UK)) in the descirption is written - "Up to integrated Intel® HD Graphics 4400 or 5000" even though currently there is no HD5000 option to select (just 4400 + amd).

\

 

ThinkPad Yoga got home. Find more details at ThinkPad Yoga: Business Ultrabook - 12.5" 2-In-1 Business Convertible | Lenovo (US)

 

ThinkPads are not high end machines anymore.

According to most consumers , cheaper is better.

According to people who can afford high end machines and value speed , faster is better.

 

In my opinion, $949 is not "cheap." Although, business notebooks and ultrabooks tend to run more expensive than normal. So it is "cheap" in those terms, but it's a premium product none the less.

I just can't imagine adding a second slot of memory being all that expensive. I could try and argue this, but I'm not a hardware engineer.

Either way, I'm on the verge of not caring anymore. I mainly want a laptop for writing code on the go. Casual gaming should be fine, it's just a shame.

 

This is exactly how I feel. Its a shame but I have a gaming PC for real games, and the occasional game on low/medium doesn't bug me.

 

This argument is extremely interesting, because its used so many times. It's such an obvious but important detail, many will simply opt to not buy one. $949 is not cheap, considering that's the baseline model with options of a HDD, meaning SSD and cached models are even more pricey. Based on Tablets, that's not cheap at all! That's solidly premium! Perhaps we're all shocked by >$1500 Ultrabooks like the Vaio Duo 13, and Samsung ATIV 9 Plus, but that doesn't change that previously $1000 would have been called a damn expensive one.

The ThinkPad Yoga was already a questionable alternative to the Yoga 2 Pro with its significantly increased weight and thickness. This adds to the trouble.

Can any manufacturer give a Convertible Ultrabook with following features?:

-4th Gen U series CPU
-9 to 10 hour battery life
-No more than 3 pounds weight and 15mm thick
-Decent digitzer(Wacom or N-Trig doesn't matter, it seems the difference is lot more muted on the high end nowadays)
-Dual Channel memory
-$1100-1200
-Good WiFi and Keyboard with decent travel(example, XPS 12)
-Tech support that knows how to fix issues(which is sad that I might have to opt for other than Lenovo)

 

After all this talk about graphics here yesterday I installed steam and got few games on my laptop and now i'm hooked and would really prefer dual ram and hd5000.
Thanks guys

 

Could anyone give me idea what games I could play on Thinkpad Yoga with i7, hd4400 and single channel 8Gb ram? Games released 2010 or before? How about new games on law details like witcher2?

 

We'll probably see a ~25% decrease from the HD 4400, so somewhere around the HD 4000. Maybe a little better. (~5%+)
HD 4000 Benchmarks

Expect to play modern games on low at 1280x720 with 30 fps. You could always tweak your settings to boost performance. I call this "Acceptable."

I'm getting these numbers from the Yoga 2 Pro, which has similar specs.

 

For all the gaming guys, how do you guys play games without overheating the laptops? Wished I could game on it but I was done playing games on laptops long time ago because I just think laptop just can't handle the heat from gaming. Especially the thin laptops. The laptop gets ruined in the end I think (because it has happened to me before a long time ago - bad GPU, bad motherboard, etc). The fans are just too small to deal with the GPU and CPU heat and the casing is too tight in there for good airflow. Curious to know.

 

Not the most intensive game in the world, but I play TF2 on my x220t fairly regularly and it doesn't get that hot, maybe 85C load... just keep your vent cleans, make sure your ambient temps aren't absurd, and play on a table. In theory the machines should be designed to handle sustained CPU/GPU loads, though they definitely do a bad job occasionally.

 

Ok so just normal maintenance.

Yea I do those maintenance as well but in the past, my laptop doesn't last very long if I game it (i.e. less then 3 years). I used to think 85C to 90C load should be ok given what the specs says but after a few bad laptops, I don't risk it anymore. I think 85C-90C sustained for 2 hours isn't that good for the laptop. The bottom of the laptop gets hots, the table gets hot, the fan (which is tiny if you think about it) is on full throttle, airflow is pretty crap. At least with the desktop - I don't feel the case getting hot and there are lots of airflow with the massive fans (relative to a laptop).

My view though - maybe just bad experiences.

 

Have you ever owned a mobile workstation?

Example of one from last year:
http://partnerdirect.dell.com/sites/channel/Documents/Precision-M6700-Workstation-Spec-Sheet.pdf

 

W520/W530 sustain 85-95C easily. For days, not hours. Properly built gaming laptops, with better GPUs, like Alienware etc. should also manage fine.

 

Does the Yoga series have that dreadful waiting times too? I waited almost a month for my Y410p, if I want one of these will I have to wait that long too?

 

There is often pent-up demand for notebooks with new generation CPU as people have been waiting for them for several months.

 

Yes I think only Alienware might be a suitable gaming laptop. All others, including mobile workstation, I am not gonna play games on it. I just don't think they are designed for heat on all the time. Still for gaming, desktop for me.

 

Heh-heh, I remember when my first laptop, a 386, cost me over $3000.

 

Well, that just made me feel young.

 

Update:
I tweeted Nick Reynolds of Lenovo and asked if the ThinkPad Yoga has Dual Channel, and it does* - Source.
Apparently there are two DIMM slots on the ThinkPad Yoga.

He also confirmed with someone else that there will be no hot-swappable battery.

*Now, he did correct himself on the battery, so who knows about the RAM., can't always be right. But this is at least something..

Edit: Clarified DIMMs, not SO-DIMM

 

It would be really strange that Lenovo decides to have two swappable ram slots for the ThinkPad Yoga, given that in the past they have limited to it to one on X1C, X1 and Yoga 13. Also a T440s has only one slot and 4 gigs of soldered on ram.

 

I read on some tech blog that Lenovo plans to coordinate the Thinkpad Yoga's release with the release of Windows 8.1, which would mean they could begin taking orders in as little as two weeks! Has anyone confirmed this?

 

I think that is pretty accurate.

 

More details on the ThinkPad Yoga: RTPW1230_ThinkPad_YogaUltrabook

- 4 GB or 8 GB soldered, depending which CPU is built in (8GB on the i5-4300U, the i7-4500U and the i7-4600U)
- 47 Wh Battery, which would man 5-6 hrs of battery life with Haswell
- Pen is only availabe on the FHD Display, and only on the Anti-Glare version

 

Darnit, by the looks of that, we'll have to wait until next year for the vPro CPUs to get 8GB with the i5.

 

So no 2 ram slots.

 

Wow, great find.

Yes and no.
I don't think Nick was necessarily wrong.
I reported "2 SO-DIMMs," which was an error on my part. I also blame twitter, because his response is a little vague because of the character limit.
Upon inspecting a photo of the MoBo in the Processor and Memory section of the manual ibmthink linked, it's clear that there are two DIMMs soldered to the board. (Highlighted in Red) The clue is Nick mentioned "DIMM" memory, not SO-DIMM. Those are full fledged DIMM modules on the board.
See Here

So:
No, there's no slots for replaceable SO-DIMM memory.
Yes, there's two DIMM memory modules if you opt for the 8gb version. (Dual-channel)

I have no idea if the 4gb version will be single chanel or not. And I understand you're referencing user replaceable memory. I'm just clarify my previous statement.

 

Please everyone buy this so this sells well and I can get it next year with Broadwell.

 

No miniDP support on the ThinkPad Yoga? Damn

 

The Fujitsu Lifebook T904 looks more appealing.

 

You know the price of this or just comparing specs as usual?

 

The Fujitsu will be more expensive.

Lenovo focuses more on budget orientated laptops , remember?

I want the most bang for the buck not the cheapest.

Fujitsu tablets tend to offer the most bang for the buck.

 

I wonder why you like the T904 del_psi? Obviously, Fujitsu is going down the same route as Lenovo or Dell with their Convertible Notebooks, reduced functionallity, thinner design (ThinkPad S240 Yoga for Lenovo, Elitebook Revolve 910 for HP). And I thought you don´t like the new trends that are going on in the Notebook-space

T904:
- No more VGA port and no more Optical Drive, which was one of the main advantages of the T902 over the X230t
- Max. 8 GB instead of 16 GB like the T902 (one DIMM Slot)
- ULV CPUs instead of Full-Voltage CPUs (I thought that these are to slow? Obviously the manufactures think different)
- No AC WLAN option
- Bigger buttonless TouchPad (and no TrackPoint at all, the Yoga is the only new Convertible Notebook with Haswell with a TrackPoint)
- Only 1mm keystroke (compared to 2mm on ThinkPads), which means a very shallow typing experince
- (Likely no pen slot anymore, because the new chassis is much thinner, or, thinner pen, which fits into the new chassis. We will see)

In conclusion, the only advantages of the T904 over the ThinkPad Yoga is WWAN and maybe the 2560x1440 screen (but most people won´t need / want such an high resolution on 13"es).

 

this guy is telling everyone NOT to buy thinkpads in almost every new product threads. Wonder why he is here in the 1st place.

 

I don't understand this. He is voicing his opinion as is everyone else. Some have better things to say about the new Thinkpads while others don't. To him, the Fujitsu is a better tablet. That is all. Just an opinion and he is entitled to one I believe.