Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga

He hates the current thinkpads and will never buy one but ironically is still attracted to the Lenovo forums. Haha.

 

One doesn't necessarily have to like a particular brand in order to post in a forum about that product. It's not a bad thing to have some dissenting voices.

 

Hey everyone quick question. If I buy the Yoga with the 500GB standard hard drive and it comes with the M.2 SSD and then I upgrade the main hard drive to a 256GB SSD on my own, does that M.2 drive do anything anymore or offer any benefit? If so do I need to do anything specific when reinstalling Windows 8 on the new drive to make use of that other drive? Or does that drive just appear as a 16GB hard drive? Or is it totally unusable as an actual hard drive? Thanks!

 

I was over at Bestbuy yesterday and tried the surface pro tablet keyboard and didn't like it much.

Anyone know if the Wacom active Digitizer on the Thinkpad Yoga is equivalent to the one on the upcoming Surface Pro 2?

I was on the fence between the Yoga and the Surface Pro 2 but the not so easy getting used to keyboard on the Surface is making me lean more towards this Thinkpad Yoga.

Besides the Fujitsu, any other competing offerings?

 

what do you mean by equivalent?

 

In terms of functionality, sensitivity, response of the Wacom active digitizer.

 

So here's a related question as there seem to be some knowledgeable folk on this thread...

I'm a long time Thinkpad user and currently have a X220 i7 with 16GB, 240GB Intel SSD & Win7. When at my desk I don't use the built-in screen (since 768 deep - it's my biggest complaint over my previous X40) but have two 1920x1080 monitors (one on DVI-D/DP, the other on VGA). I'm on the road a reasonable amount (say half the time) so that's the big appeal of Thinkpads - you can comfortably work on them all day long and they're very robust.

Anyway, I have been waiting for a X2xx with a better screen resolution, and the X240 seems to have that (1600x1080? I think) but is down to one SODIMM so 8GB max, and I'm now wondering about a ThinkPad Yoga instead (since I don't use a tablet for work but think I would find one useful at times when the open laptop form factor is not suitable or necessary).

I haven't seen this OneLink dock before though - it only has one HDMI connector. With a docked ThinkPad Yoga is it possible to drive 2 displays at 1920x1080? Or would I need to go down the route of a 3rd party dock, like the Fujitsu PR08 (which would give me two displays at 1920x1200!)? This is for general business use, including running virtual machines (not gaming or CAD etc).

Any comments very welcome!

Simon

 

Quite the same is my dillemma too.
Guess I'll decide by price.. hopefully the release date is true and we get the price and selling start tomorrow!

Somewhere I read the pen could be double as sensitive as the one of the surface is, but I'm not sure. I personally also would trust the pretty pen of the Surface mroe than the little one of the Yoga which seems to be made of cheap plastic. On the otehr hand it can be stored in the device at least.
As far as I know you could also simply use another pen directly from Wacom which is meant for their own drawing-Tablets. There are people using them on the Surface Pro 1 already. Not sure what would speak against doing that with the Yoga too..

 

Maybe I should get my teen-age daughter this toy instead, if it's going to be a lot cheaper than the SP2 64GB with the power cover:
STYLISTIC Q584
STYLISTIC Q584 - Fujitsu CEMEA&I

though I'm not sure if it comes with a Wacom Digitizer.

 

Has the release date for the ThinkPad Yoga been pushed back? Previous reports had stated October 18th, but there's nothing on the Lenovo website yet.

I also found a Microsoft Store page where we can preorder with a release date of 11/25/2013: Buy Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga Touchscreen 2-in-1, Core i7 - Microsoft Store

 

If it's actually the end of November then I'm looking for another machine, this is so lame!

 

Indeed... =/
Makes me rather tend back to the surface Pro again. Especially the weight is quite high. On Lenovo's site it said about 200g less...

But that we mention lenovo's site.. is it only me that the page looks quite broken for some reason? ThinkPad Yoga: Business Ultrabook - 12.5" 2-In-1 Business Convertible | Lenovo (US)

 

Unfortunately, I spoke with Lenovo and the release date has been pushed to mid-end of November. However, they suggested that the Intel HD 5000 would be an option, which is supported by a i7-4650U HD 5000 combo previewed in Brazil. Whether the option will be immediately available in the US is undetermined, but certainly a possibility.

Blog Lenovo Brasil | For Those Who Do

Error-ridden interpretation of paragraph citing this combo:

Technically speaking, the ThinkPad Yoga already comes equipped with the new processor Core ix "Ultra" of fourth generation (codename "Haswell") being that the model exposed at NADA Lenovo at IDF was equipped with a Core i7 4650U of 1.7 ~ 2.3 GHz, 4 MB cache, TPD of only 15 watts and integrated Intel graphics Media accelerator HD 5000. Interesting to see that he already came with a preliminary version of Windows 8.1

This combo is also seen clearly displayed third image down here:
Thinkpad S1 Yoga高清图赏 屏幕可360°翻转_新闻频道_美丽天下网

I've been eying the Vaio Fit Flip 13A as an alternative to the Thinkpad Yoga, but with the horrific Wi-Fi issues of past and the HD 4400 limit, it may very well be worth it to wait until November. This would, at the very least, give me the opportunity to read user reviews on the Flip and its connectivity. For whatever reason Sony has chosen to endow the Duo with the HD 5000, but left the Flip empty handed. Perhaps an HD 5000 option will be available in both the Thinkpad Yoga and Flip 13A come November, putting both on an even playing field. The Flip form factor is certainly more appealing than the Yoga, but without the HD 5000, it can't compete. Also, both have 8gb dual channel ram, but the Flip offers PCIe SSD, which would be nice to see on the Yoga. Anyone else catch a glimpse of a Yoga with the HD 5000?

 

Hmm.. I wonder how much of a difference the HD 5000 really does on a 15W CPU.
Benchmarkers have already found out that the chip puts always priority on the CPU and when more CPU power is needed (speed boost) then the graphic cores are automatically clocked down to stay under the TDP. That happens on the models with the HD 4400 already. On the ones with HD 5000 and with the same wattage that could be even worse...

I personally will get the SP 2 probably.. no one and a half more months waiting for a quite heavy device ><'

 

The HD 5000 is not worth it in my opinion. The difference to the HD 4400 is so small, I would not pay an extra price for the 5000.

I have different infos / roadmaps. Some say, the Yoga will be on sale in November, some say in December. Models with vPro will be available in January.

October 20/22 are marked as "SS", so maybe some embargos will be lifted or something like that, and maybe the first informations about model numbers will come up, but it won´t be on sale in October, thats for sure.

 

Benchmarks look pretty good for the HD 5000, of course it's only a gradual step up (I believe 15-20%), but if you plan to game, that's always worth it. The release date is November 25th according to the pre-order for the Thinkpad Yoga on the Microsoft store. Unfortunately, the model available for pre-order doesn't include the 4650U or the HD 5000, so I'm still holding out hope for the option. Sadly, they are not using LPDDR3, which would have helped a bit with the power consumption in standby. I feel like I could spend forever waiting for someone to get this whole hybrid schtick right. Honestly, the Sony Vaio Duo 13 has the best hardware of the bunch (minus the LPDDR3, which I've really only seen on the Macbooks), but an unprotected screen and a gimpy keyboard ruin it for me. If they could stuff the Duo's insides into the Flip's beautiful outsides, I'd be ecstatic. If I wasn't hellbent on an active digitizer, life would be easier.

 

@laptopinfo
What speaks against the Surface 2 Pro? It will also have LPDDR3 in dual channel.

Besides that, to mention the HD 5000 again: The point is that 3D-Benchmarks are made with very, very little CPU usage to test out the entire power of the graphic chip. In a real game for example the power could be reduced due to the TDP..,

 

I think the Surface 2 Pro is a pretty good option for anyone looking for a removable keyboard. I'm quite determined to get something with a decent keyboard attached so that scoots the surface out of view for me. The i5/HD 4400 combo is good if you're only planning to do casual gaming on low to medium settings (depending on the game), but I'd really like an i7/HD 5000 combo as seen in the Duo (which has a sub-par keyboard/ exposed screen that also removes it from my list).

 

AnandTech | The 2013 MacBook Air Review (13-inch)

Here's a good run down on the performance of the HD 5000 and HD 4400

 

Hmm.. 11-13% more power than the HD 4400... For me that doesn't justify 200-300 (if not more) bucks for the i7 instead of the i5. Cpu power is also not increased that significantly (like in the third generation) since the new i7 is only a dualcore too now x.x

 

DragonGamer,

I see where you're coming from. The fact that Broadwell is set to release in 2014 makes me want to wait forever to get a new convertible. The benefits of the HD 5000 under the current processor constraints are slim, but present. Waiting is painful and there's always the-next-best-thing in line, and surely 14nm would be great and the 4400 is still a good option, but I'm stuck in my ways and won't likely be penalized too severely for the upgrade on the Yoga versus the already over-priced Sony Flip with the 4400. The Borderlands benchmark makes your point, though.

 

Yes, there's always something new ;w;
Unfortunately in my case studies have started and I finally need a device for that... lol

 

Hmm, this looks nice. Any word on whether it'll be coming to Australia / New Zealand? The original Yoga wasn't released here since Lenovo only wanted to focus on the business line (Thinkpad over Ideapad). But now this Yoga is "Thinkpad"?

 

2H 2014, which makes it likely back to school season, not Q1 2014. Q1 2014 is production, which is not relevant at ALL to buyers.

Vaio Duo 13 is the only other 4th Gen Core device aside from the Macbook Air that uses LPDDR3. If it didn't have the WiFi issue, it would have been a serious contender, with HD5000-beating performance on a HD 4400 config thanks to cTDP implementation, and awesomely designed cooling.

 

IntelUser,

Oversight on the LPDDR3 for the Duo on my part. I dismissed the Duo for the keyboard/exposed screen/wi-fi issues, but unfortunately the wi-fi issue doesn't seem isolated to any one Vaio product. So now I sit and wait to see if there's any hope for the Flip, it having already been labeled with wifi issues by reviewers. I blame Intel. I'm almost ready to buy the cheapest Flip possible and go mad scientist on it, frankensteining parts together and spending hours looking for the one screw to screw them all when I'm done.

 

@laptopinfo,
the performance difference is nearly 0 %, see:
View attachment 103465
Review Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus 940X3G Ultrabook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews See the GPU part.

 

I think this is a very good question and I also would like to know the answer to it. I am planning to buy the Thinkpad Yoga and upgrade the HD manually to a 512 GB SSD (256 GB is not enough for me and I don't like having a mechanical drive in an ultrabook for various reasons), but I am also not sure how to deal with the M.2 drive when I do this. Does anybody know?

 

When you install a new hdd, the M2 will appear as a new hdd, which you can use (or not use). This is no different to having a secondary hdd.

 

I've read about a dozen comparisons and the numbers vary every time, especially when they use different brands/processors/power settings. I'll wait to see the difference it has on the performance specifically on the flip/yoga, since those are the only two in my consideration box. Does anyone know if the power settings are similar between the duo and flip?

 

The WiFi issue can't be singled out to one component. There are articles where do a study with multiple different laptops with identical WiFi modules and found out that signal strength can vary significantly. Reading on the Yoga 2 Pro thread seems to suggest the WiFi based seems lot better.

Also, based on a personal experience. I've updated to Windows 8.1, and the WiFi connection is a lot better.

Flip is significantly thinner and lighter than the Duo. Performance between HD 4400 and 5000 is at a range where TDP settings(configurable by the OEM) can have them overlap. A cTDPup'd HD 4400 can rival nominal TDP HD 5000.

 

Hmm.. about to buy the Surface Pro 2 + Type Cover which would arrive in three days at a local store...
Anyone wanna try to convince me it's worth waiting for the ThinkPad Yoga? ._.

 

i got the Surface Pro with Touch cover. I have to say as a laptop, it is not that great. The keyboard doesn't have the same level of tactility, and using it on lap like a laptop is almost impossible. Also the text on the Surface Pro FHD is way too small, and the amount of adjustment for the screen isnt that great.

But the Surface line of tablets are well built, much better than anything Lenovo have.

 

I pre-ordered the 512 GB version of the Surface Pro 2, but canceled it as I think the Thinkpad Yoga will work better for me. IMO, it boils down to if you want a tablet that also works as a laptop (Surface) or a laptop that also works as a tablet (Yoga) - I want the latter.

User-replaceable HD is a big thing for me and, perhaps more importantly, a hinge that connects the screen with the keyboard. More ports are nice to have, too. On the other hand, I do like the MS add-on gadgets and goodies - docking station, keyboard with battery (although this one is not backlit, I think), 200 GB SkyDrive space, Skype credits... The Surface and the add-on gadgets are a bit expensive, though.Of course, the Surface is much more portable, so if this is important to you...

Last-not-least, they had an article on CNET today about the difficulty to open the Surface Pro 2 for repair. Probably, this is not a flaw that is specific to the Surface - more something that is inherent to all tablets - again, it is laptop flavored tablet vs. tablet flavored laptop..

 

I'm going to be rolling out some Yogas to end users and I'm having a tough time deciding between the ThinkPad or Pro 2model. I like the idea of the ThinkPad having a "beefier" build quality, and the fact that the hinge is more reinforced and rated higher for lifetime rotations count. The locking keys are nice, but I did my demoing with the original Yoga and people seemed to be OK with the keys on the underside. The TPM is a nice plus as I will be using Bitlocker, but its not a necessity. That is really all I like about it though versus the YP2.

The Pro 2 has the better resolution and screen quality, is lighter/thinner, has better battery life, and can be ordered with a 512GB SSD (256 max on ThinkPad I believe). It's really a bit strange on why Lenovo left the ThinkPad version so lacking.

Anyone care to share their thoughts on the YP2 being used in a business environment over the ThinkPad model?

 

Thinkpad version will have a option to use a active stylus. Also, the keyboard locking thing takes space, so that is why the Thinkpad version is thicker and heavier. As for the screen resolution, I really do not think it will matter that much, because Windows is not as good to support high resolution screen as Android and Mac.

 

I probably still prefer Thinkpad Yoga because of the better keyboard and supposedly better build quality, even though the specs on Yoga pro 2 are better.

 

my friend just came back from the states, he got the YP2 from BB. What i can say from a ThinkPad user perspective are the following:

1. Screen is bright, colour accuracy is not great due to the PenTile LCD.
2. Keys on the keyboard has very little travel, it is almost like typing on the Surface Type keyboard (which i dislike). Personally the first generation yoga 13 had a better keyboard feel (still behind Thinkpads though).
3. Build quality is excellent, better than Yoga 13 first generation.
4. Resolution is way to small with the QHD+, Windows 8 still doesn't do the font scaling right like Mac OS X.
5. Price of 1200 USD is really good, i am tempted. Gives competitors a run for its money in terms of spec and price.

P.S. i would get the Thinkpad yoga next week, so will do an advance preview for you chaps.

 

I thought Thinkpad yoga has not released yet. How would you get that?

 

His friend did not get a ThinkPad Yoga, only the Yoga 2 Pro.

 

Not to mention the Yoga Pro 2 has a larger screen, 13.3 vs 12.5 and as such is slightly wider, but same depth and thinner.

 

I will be part of some Lenovo hosted Google hangout session in 2 weeks time, and we get the ThinkPad Yoga demo machine sent to us to test before hand.

 

Yes I consider this an issue as well. Users are going to be going from 15" Dell's to "13.3, which is scary enough.

Has anyone ran into any major scaling issues on the QHD display with legacy software?

 

Would love to know how you like the Thinkpad Yoga when you get your hands on one.

I was thinking about SP2 but the Yoga will have a better keyboard, a larger screen for reading and the Active Digitizer and I don't think I will be inking or annotating (causally) while standing up.

I tried playing around with my old Wacom bamboo tablet and it was a pain to find out where I have to position my pen over the tablet!

Found a short discussion on the merits of the SP2 and Thinkpad Yoga:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/19/4854640/thinking-of-thinkpad-yoga-over-surface-pro-2

=====

From one of the comment there, someone complained about the stylus on the Thinkpad Yoga. Is this something that we can replace with another wacom stylus or are we stuck with what Lenovo will be offering with the Yoga? TIA.

The stylus pen is way too thin, on the level of smart phone stylus, which I had. It’s uncomfortable to write with it. Surface Pro has a much more natural “pen”.

 

You can use any active stylus from Wacom. I have tried to use Sumsung ATIV Smart PC 500T's stylus on Thinkpad Tablet 2. No Problem!

 

I spoke to a Lenovo salesperson on the phone (I know...notoriously variable in accuracy) that said that the Thinkpad Yoga would be released around 11/12/13. I know the MS store has it posted for 11/25/13. Any thoughts or prevailing opinions?

 

No idea. I hope you are right

 

Is there going to be an i7 model of the ThinkPad Yoga?

 

Anyone know if the Gorilla Glass that comes with the Thinkpad Yoga is 2nd generation and if writing (carefully) on it with the Wacom pen will not result in scratches over time?

I asked because for smartphones with first generation GG's, keys in the pocket could still scratch them.

 

I think the sale will start closer to end of November, it was originally planned for start of November.

 

Im looking for the same answer!

Currently have a surface pro with a screen protector. Kill the glare, protects the surface from scratches and leaves it much more comfortable for using with the stylus.

I dont really care about all of it, except the scratches. I cant get it scratched!

Also, does anyone know if the screen is glossy like the surface pro or different in any way?