Soooo did you guys hear ? Dells are now better built than thinkpads !

Is it really that bad? I was about to order a T61 (through visaperks) but I'm starting to reconsider it... Is it any better without the integrated camera? I looked at the D630 but it's more than I can afford...

Also... might be a dumb question... but how am I supposed to know whether or not the T61 I chose come with integrated camera? All I get is a generic T61 description (which is the same for every models) which says: " Integrated Camera ( select models only)". ?

Here's what I'm talking about
http://caipsgws001.can.ibm.com/store/addoptions?sku=766416U&bannerkey=0&aud=EA1VISA

 

No, it isn't that bad. There are many, many, many, many, many more satisfied T61 users out there. I am just one of them.

 

Yes that was the problem initially. But look at all the posts right after my first post. I made sure to say " most here."

You asked for evidence and I said look at the polls at NBR. You said they were biased. And then I asked you a question, which you never answered.

Well I'll ask again. How else would you determine the preference of a laptop over another in an internet forum? I say doing a poll will most likely do the job. And there has been polls already which point to the T61 over the D630. A lot of the Mods agree with this too.

My main argument was that HERE AT NBR.COM, most would agree that a T61 is better than a D630. Now I don't care if NBR is right or wrong, but if someone was looking for an opinion from NBR, NBR collectively would point to a T61.

So next time resist before calling someone's intention "absolute crap."

 

Like I said, you weren't trying to talk about the opinions of people at NBR for the sake of talking about their opinions. You mentioned what you perceive to be a general consensus for the sole purpose of trying to prove that the ThinkPad T61 is better than the Latitude D630. Now you are trying to scale back and say, "All I meant was to just talk about how people thought at NBR," which is absolute crap.

How do you know its inferior? Is it because....gee....you think its proven because of people's opinions on NBR? You tried to use NBR opinion as proof that the TP is better than Dell. Don't try to hide it anymore.

 

Gah... not good. Cheap plastic indeed.

Still curious whether people think the rollcage design is same or cheaper to make than old composite shell. Seems unlikely that engineering such a design saves any manufacturing costs.

 

I agree with Playmaker. Flight#24, you weren't just trying to talk about NBR popular opinion. You clearly meant that statement to be proof that the D630 is inferior to the T61. Maybe you changed your mind over time, but that was your opinion at the onset.

 

Looks like you know me better than I know myself.

How do you know what my intentions were? I am trying to scale back? Am I scared of an internet forum?

General consensus @ NBR is Lenovo ThinkPad T61 over D630. It's an opinion from a good internet forum with at least some knowledgeable posters.

When buying a product one usually seeks opinions from different sources. Before I was about to buy a Inspiron 1420. Luckily I didn't after research and talking to people with both inspirons and thinkpads. I got opinions from NBR too. After that I purchased a ThinkPad T61.

If someone posts @ NBR about D630s and T61s, well it's only logical for one to only express consensus regarding this matter HERE @ NBR.

 

That was a very elegant response. So......how do you know that the D630 is inferior again?

 

Here is the post Playmaker quoted:

T61 is comparable to a Latitude D630, but the latter is more expensive currently. Very true. Go check your self if you don't believe me.

Most [here on NBR] would agree that Lenovo/IBM is better than a Dell Business class notebook. Again very true. Go check polls @ NBR

So the way I look at it, why pay extra for an inferior piece of machine?

If sentence #2 is true, then the T61 better than the D630...hence D630 is the inferior machine. So why pay more?

I see nothing wrong with what I posted. I don't see how I changed my mind later.

I used NBR's opinion because someone is posting @ NBR. Geesh.

 

Let me ask you?

How do you know D630 is the better machine?

BTW I already explained my stance.

 

AHA!! See? You use NBR opinion as an objective measure to determine that the D630 is inferior.

Quoted for truth.

I don't. Can't you read my signature? But just because your conclusion is compatible with mine, it doesn't mean that I'm going to agree with your flawed method of reaching it.

 

May I point out that this thread is not going anywhere in terms of a concrete decision about which one is superior, and that you are in the Lenovo subforum, where in my opinion people that browse this forum generally have an interest (more so than disinterest) in the Lenovo brand, and therefore most likely will prefer and side with the Lenovo product?

I am not a mod here, but seriously... it is one continuous argument over who believes they're right.

 

No one is trying to come to a concrete decision about anything. That wasn't the point of this thread to begin with. That's why we can have a discussion on who is right.

 

Yes it's my opinion that T61 is the better notebook. Obviously I believe that, if I didn't why did I buy a T61?

And no I didn't use NBR's opinion solely as an objective measurement to determine that the D630 is inferior.

Again I was responding to a question asked @ NBR and I gave a response according to NBR. It is simple as that. I don't why you keep on arguing about what my intentions were.

Quick to judge, eh?

Flawed method of research?

You don't have to teach me about research.

 

Well that's the thing - the discussion of who is right and who is wrong can be endless.

 

Anyway, what other reasons do you find the T61 more compelling than the D630 (from your research)?

Ok.

 

Opinion Opinion Opinion. CNET users, not the editors, voted the D630 7.6, but the T61 receives a 5.6. Why are NBR users more reliable than CNET users? This is why users opinions are not accurate.

 

Listen. Let's pretend both the D630 and T61 were equal in terms of build quality. Neither the T61 nor the D630 is superior over the other.

The simple fact that the T61 has the better keyboard is enough to make the T61 more compelling. And currently a T61 is also cheaper. Is that compelling enough?

 

No the T61 is only cheaper with certain options and depending on which sales are available. Currently Dell has a 25% sale on Latitudes. It ends today. Yes, the T61 has better keyboard, but the D630 has other advantages. I like the longer battery life. My D630 with 135M video card easily has 5 hours of battery life. I am not sure how long it would last if I ran it to cut off. Your comparisons are biased.

 

Can you point out when I said that?

BTW CNet's editor review gives it a 7.6.

 

No actually if you configure a standard machine with 2GB of RAM and Windows Vista Premium. The Latitudes are more expensive currently. Plus Lenovo has other little cash backs from AMEX and FW, which ultimately makes it cheaper currently.

OK but lets say everything is the same. The price, the build quality, warranty...which one would you pick?

 

why does this thread keep coming to the top?

 

And?
CNET T61 Editor's 7.6
User's 5.6
D630 Editor's 8.2 and editor's choice
User's 7.6
I do not agree with these scores. I am just showing an example why it is a bad idea to only rely on posts and bad reviews when buying a laptop. I recommend driving to stores and working with laptops so you can develop your own opinion and not blindly follow someone else's.

 

May I see the options and prices. Can you copy and paste all of the options because I think you are making a mistake. If everything was equal, I prefer the Latitudes longer battery life. However, if the rumors were true and Lenovo released the 14.1" WSXGA+ resolution laptop, I wanted that. I was going to pay extra for that feature. Unfortunately, that was only a rumor.

 

And I completely agree with that statement, which is what I exactly did before I bought a thinkpad. I never said T61 are the better machine because NBR said so.

 

Well, we all know most Cnet users have worthless opinions... "wah, I just bought this computer and can't get it to make a cappuccino so I'm giving it one star". Heh heh

 

CNET USER'S 5.6 = 6 or 7 whiners about service and delayed shipment NOT rating on the product!

 

I disagree. CNET users give great advice. I use half CNET and half NBR. My only complaint with CNET is it is so slow. It can take days to get a response. However, the quality of the response is equal to NBR. I recommend the CNET forum.

Do you really want me to point out every whiny NBR member? In fact, NBR has an entire section dedicated to people whining about their shipment delayed.

 

I saw a cNet review for a camera once. They criticized it for high noise issues on its pictures. Hillariously, MANY comments people made on the page were, "I have this camera. I do not get these noise issues."

 

And every post on NBR is 100% accurate. How many times have you read a post with false information? I found posts in which the person knew the information was false when he posted it.

 

That exactly being my point! you're suppose to rate the PRODUCT not be rating the shipping time!

 

I know, but NBR members are just as bad as CNET members in this area.

 

Cnet seems to be getting a handle on so-called "reviews" from people who don't even own the product but there are still too many reviews that give low scores to a product for irrelevent issues.

That said, there are some worthwhile and useful reviews, too. I just don't buy the overall scores. Interestingly there are two user reviews of the D630 on Cnet that give opposite opinions... one said better than a T61 and one said not better than a T61. So there you go... it's a tie

 

Yes but they shouldn't.

See I am mad about my shipment date, but still I am smart enough to know T61s are built solid.

 

It's clear CNET gets paid off. Sometimes, I'll see them deride certain brands of laptops for specific things, and overlook those same exact "problems" on other computers, like the Apple Macbook. For instance, they'll say the Dell Latitude is "Somewhat heavy for a thin-and-light notebook" and make that a con. But the fact that the Apple Macbook is almost the same weight and has an even smaller screen isn't an issue.

 

Yes it actually is. The bezel/roll cage misfit cannot be isolated to my T61 as there was no deformation of the bezel nor rollcage. Just simply poorly fitted pieces. It is no exageration that a fingernail can fit between these pieces unlike a $400 Acer where there is no play in the bezel/chassis whatsoever. Perhaps this is longevity issue and perhaps not. In either case, it's sloppy mfging to allow those tolerances.

The main chassis of the laptop is very nice although some have complained about weaknesses in this area as well. It looks and feels very high quality to me. I really like the keyboard feel and look. 1st class. The 14" wxga+ (which Lenovo is no longer offering - Ghee I wonder why???) LCD panel has extreme light leakage emanating from the bottom.

Hopefully, this has been corrected over the last 6 weeks as mine shipped the end of June in a huge rush to catch up for failing to order the LCD bezels which brought assembly to a halt.

 

many of the people who rate on CNET does not even own the products. They rate based on what they've read somewhere else. I dont trust those ratings. Sometimes, I go there only to look at the specs.

Anyway, if the laptop serve you well then it's the best laptop, otherwise it sucks. The T61 might be better than the D630 in some area and vice versa but you're NOT gonna own both at the same time so just concentrate on what you have and make the best out of it.

 

I read CNET reviews the same way I read NBR posts. I read all of them and filter out the biased ones. It is usually easy to find the biased ones. Once it is filtered, I sometimes take another average with the remaining reviews.

 

and that's how you got better than others

 

I was one of the first adopters of the T61, so that has nothing to do with it.

And I'm not contesting that you had a lemon, just that its not as widespread as a certain reader of your post was worried about.

 

I have a 14" WXGA+ T61 with integrated camera and I don't have these issues. Either I'm lucky or you aren't. Btw, mine shipped on end of June (6/24 to be exact) also.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=149625&page=2

i wouldnt consider taping up my thinkpad

 

I don't see the point of the arguments. Neither Lenovo nor Dell wouldn't care, or those machines will get better or worse when someone is right or wrong.

Just believe what you want. Like the thinkpad, go for it. Want a Dell, go get one !!! As long as you're happy with your machine, it's the most important thing.

Keep arguing just makes those people who is doing research on those notebooks gets more confuse about those.

Cheers

 

after this R61 bollocks im goin D630!

 

lenovo has a thinklight......dells dont! dell's trackpoint is a ghetto knock off, and doesnt work anywhere near as well as IBM's counter part.

 

oh man, here we go again. This thread is gonna end up nowhere

 

Hmm. Given that Dell has passed Lenovo in build quality, do you think Lenovo will continue to drop? Do you think they will level out somewhere below Acer and Gateway, or do you think they will really be another "cheap and dangerous chinese good recall" type item soon?

 

WORST case scenario is more like the competition has caught up, and thinkpads have dropped a little bit- narrowing the margin. No way are they heading toward this direction you describe imo, ymmv, sfftaiynt.

 

Do they use lead paint on Lenovos? I guess I'd better stop licking my thinkpad... heh heh.

 

Dell hasn't passed Lenovo in build quality. I explained already why in one of my posts in this thread. It pays to read the whole thread before posting.