Soooo did you guys hear ? Dells are now better built than thinkpads !

There's always the slim possiblity that he read the whole thread, and just disagrees with you.

 

Doubt it. If he did, he would explain that he did and why.

 

I think Latitudes have been equal to Thinkpads since the Dx10 or Dx20. Thinkpad users are convinced their ship is sinking. In actuality, other products are improving, but Thinkpads are staying the same. If Thinkpads want to regain their title as best business laptop, Lenovo will have to make improvements. The Latitude and HP business series are now equal. It is only a matter of time before other brands like ASUS catch up.

 

You make it sound like each product has a quantitative measurement. The truth is both are great machines, but some will prefer one over the other. For some, going from a Thinkpad to a Latitude or HP line will be a downgrade, for some an upgrade. You can't say one is better, and you can't say two are equal. They're computers. They will always differ, and some features will be better on one than on the other. And even that's an opinion.

I think if someone really wants to know what to get, they need to try out and see for themselves. Unfortunately, that's not so easy with these lines.

 

Yes, I read the whole thread. I just disagree with the Lenovo fanbois. I think most people realize that the "good lenovo build quality" idea is an outdated thing, not a 2007 thing. The Lenovo quality has fallen off - but that was unavoidable, now that it is a chinese company. The question is just how far they will fall. All I was asking for was speculation and opinions. No one really knows how bad they will get. I just wanted to hear opinions.

 

Are you calling me a fanboy? You do know that while I provided concrete reasons as to why the roll cage is better for structural support than what the Latitudes offer, I also did admit many shortfalls of the TP chassis, including the plastic palm rest. Fanboys would've praised the ThinkPad design without any legitimate reason as to why they are right.

I don't see you giving any concrete reasons as to why you think good Lenovo build quality is an "outdated" thing, "has fallen off," or how Chinese people necessarily contribute to crappy quality. I don't see you explaining why you think Dell Latitude quality is necessarily any better, given how there are detailed reasons as to why having a magnesium roll cage as part of the structure is better than having plastic be part of it. If anything, you have more fanboy qualities than I do, and given that you own an Inspiron and mostly spend your time in the Dell thread, I am not surprised you'll crap on Lenovo without any justification whatsoever.

 

You are not a fanboy, you are a racist.

EDIT: This reminds me when Nissan appointed a Frenchman as its CEO. Everyone said racist remarks then.

 

Your post was absurd, that's my opinion. Sure, Thinkpads quality now may not be what they once were, but they have not fallen so low that they can be put next to an Acer, or even an Inspiron. They are still top notch computers, and I am confident that they will remain such.

 

Not to mention, Dell's computers are manufactured in China. Guy is a racist fanboy. No reason why he can't be both.

Look, his precious Dell can't even ship until 8/28.

 

Well, it's not like Lenovo can brag about their ship times either.

Most laptops are designed in Taiwan. All laptops are made in China, Malaysia, or Mexico. You can't win.

 

Yikes. I didnt mean to ruffle so many feathers. Maybe I shouldnt have said "I thinkmost people realize" and I should have just said "The people I talk to seem to think" or "this is the opinion I encounter most"

Because these are subjective opinions. Im sorry that my original post came off as if I was just giving indisuptable facts. I didn't mean to upset so many people.

I dont think equating chinese goods with poor quality is racist though, It has nothing to do with race. It might be cultural? I dont know. There has been a rash of scandals involving poor quality (or even dangerously poor quality) of chinese goods just in the past few weeks. Chinese goods do not have a good reputation as far as I can tell. Do you feel otherwise?

Japanese goods had that reputation before the last few decades, and they have turned things around. I was basically just wondering which direction they would go.

(I use the term "Fanboi" to mean someone who defends a product emotionally, because they have emotional ties to it - perhaps I should have used a different term)

 

Actually, it's not a recent issue. We have always known (we being the Chinese) that goods, especially consumables, often cut corners and are unsafe. Ever heard of counterfeit eggs, baby formula, and heavy metals in candy?

Is it wrong? You bet your pants it is. But stop freaking out like it's the end of the world when Americans just started to notice.

This is also very similar to the stigma associated with American products such as cars in America. In Asia, we love American cars.

Anyhow, IBM had their notebooks built by Lenovo way before the takeover.

 

U.S. automakers market share lowest ever

Toyota reports best quarter ever

American cars are garbage, and the world market is truly starting to realize it. Maybe the crappy quality of their cars is a "cultural" thing.

 

I heard GM cars are getting better, but I still prefer Honda and Toyota. In my opinion, GM is the best American car.

 

GM is not a model.
They make very good trucks, but their cars are still inferior as compared to the rest of the industry.

 

I know. I said GM cars are getting better. In a decade or two, GM cars might become as reliable as any other car. Currently GM cars are as reliable as any car built in Europe, if that means anything. The most reliable cars in the World are still made in Japan. Honda, Nissan and Toyota.
Now back to the discussion about Latitudes and Thinkpads

 

Are you trying being funny?
Who are we, and where in Asia?
Do you mean you love Chinese made Buicks, sold in China? :laugh:

 

So is the rest of the industry...

 

Ford might be getting worse and I think Chrysler is going no where.
Back to the discussion about Latitudes and Thinkpads

 

GM doesn't have a decade or two.
Heck they even don't have a couple of years left before they'll be forced to go bankrupt if the things don't change drastically.
Currently, GM cars are being sold at huge discounts in Europe. People are not fools.

 

GM bankrupt? Last time I looked GM is still larger than Toyota. I know Toyota is going to pass GM soon, in fact Toyota might be the largest car maker now. But, GM is not going anywhere soon.
Back to the discussion about Latitudes and Thinkpads.

 

you should say back to the argument about Dell vs Lenovo

Cheers

 

Apple (mold), Dell (partial), Asus, Acer, Benq, HP/Compaq (partial) are designed in China (including Taiwan). Lenovo is designed in China, while ThinkPad is still designed in Japan. Those Japanese brands such as Sony, Fujistu, NEC, & Panasonic, are designed in Japan for sure.

We can see United States has already set its core competency in business like Finance, Investment, Materical Science, Energy, Defense & Aerospace. Automotive, electronics and computer industry has already transferred job positions to Asia Pacific.

 

I thought thinkpads were still designed at Big Blue's engineering center in Raleigh, NC??

 

I think it is ridiculous to judge a product by where it was designed. I am willing to pay for something if I see it's good, period.

 

That's only because you aren't ignorant and racist enough. If you were, then you would understand.

 

I just went to a dell kiosk in nyc today and checked out their inspiron notebooks. The notebook was actually much more sturdy than I would imagine for something from dell. I tried pressing on the back of the screen but it was solid and did not produce ripples on the screen. However, it is still not comparable to the thinkpads I checked out the other day. The main difference IMO is that the dell is much thicker than the thinkpad as well as heavier. I also happen to like the boxy design of the thin thinkpad (though some people say it's ugly and looks too classic)

 

Funny, but not far from how people think...

 

It's not that Dell are better built so much as the fact ThinkPads are now built by Lenovo insted of IBM and thus have suffered a pretty good drop in built quality....

 

No, they haven't. I wish people would stop spewing mindless drivel. Show me where Lenovo-built Thinkpads have suffered a "pretty good drop in build quality" ... I see (on this forum) the standard quick-adopting people complaining about minor build issues. I also see tons of people saying it's great. My T60p(Lenovo built) is an amazing piece of hardware. My T60 from work, buitl only a few weeks ago, is also an amazingly solid piece of hardware. We're just going through the initial build-quality issues of the 14.1" WS and 15.4" WS.

 

If anything, Lenovos are HIGHER quality.

Anyone who has sufferred through the IBM harddisk conspiracy - (and yes...IBM DID conspire against us on this one since they knew they was a problem from the start and chose not to do anything) knows that today's thinkpads are faster, more stable and generally higher quality than years back.

I'm sick of people saying that just because its in China, its bad quality. Hell, look at Hyundais - they are probably one of the best built cars today (wasnt the case years ago), something stereotypically odd from a non-japanese asian company.

 

But Hyundais are not made in China. They are designed by Koreans! I would trust a Chinese company with my laptop (which they have been building for a really long time). I would not even touch a Chinese car with a stick.

 

was an analogy.

 

I wish people would quit bolstering a lousy product. The T61 is a lousy product.

Many manufacturing nameplates have gone through cycles of product quality and the thinkpad nameplate is in a down cycle with the T61. Don't be duped into believing anything with a Thinkpad nameplate is high quality.

LCD light bleed is inexcusable. I own a Macbook and a Dell 1420 and neither have the light bleed issue. Take as stroll through a Best Buy and check for light bleed on other notebooks. The T61's is the worst on the market. That's LOUSY!

Mismatched LCD bezel and chassis components in inexcusable. Pinch the frame around your T61's LCD panel and you'll "hear" the difference. Take a stroll through the Best Buy aisle and try it on the other notebooks. No snap-crackle-pop. The T61 has the poorest mated bezel components on the market.
That's LOUSY!

Boot times are absurdly long on T61 with a T7300 processor. Turn it on a get a cup of coffee and when you return it'll still be booting. The Dell 1420 totally destroys the T61 on boot speed.
That's Lousy!

BSOD's right out of the box. No problem with a Dell 1420 but the T61 reminds me of the good ol' days of Windows ME.
That's LOUSY

Repair service that returns your T61 covered with greasy (and I mean KFC greasy) fingerprints all over the lcd panel and damaged rubber screwhead covers.
That's Lousy

The T61 reminds me of the American automobile market during the late 1970's. Great nameplates with a long heritage that had become absolute garbage.

 

I just got my T61p last week and I would say it looks much better than dell machines my friends have (I like the boxy design) and it is a badass gaming rig! I can't understand why some people hare grudges against it because it's now made by Lenovo not IBM. As long as they maintain quality control in the factory it's not going to go down in quality. I also don't think the lcd on my T61p is bad. I don't notice the so-called light bleed on the lcd (and to remind you that all lcds are made by the same manufacturers these days anyway). I am not saying that Dells are bad but just making my observation that thinkpads are still great products.

 

What exactly are your claim basing this off of? I just got a T61p and it is a great machine. It boots fast, has very minimal backlight bleed and is built nice and sturdy.

Sure some people have gotten lemons lately, but tell me, what manufacturer does that not happen to?

 

I thought this thread died long ago !!!!

 

lol greggie. Those words, coming from a guy who thinks the asymmetrical hinges are a design flaw. gg.

 

You just made my point. I had forgotten about that LOUSY design feature as well.

Care to explain why one hinge ought to be twice the size of the other? Why does the T61 have twice the stress on the left hand hinge vs the right? Or, did they over-engineer the lefthand? Or, did the under-engineer the right hand? Care to venture a guess either way? LOUSY

 

Sounds like you need to do a clean install my friend, my T61 boots up super quick.

 

Yes many folks did exactly that. However, at the time (mine was returned for a FULL refund) I was more concerned with the light bleed, mismatched bezel, and BSOD's.

I'm glad you've got a speedy boot process. I can assure you that back in June the situation was much worse.

 

LOL, just because something isn't symmetrical doesn't mean one side was over-engineered and the other was under-engineered.

You just don't like Lenovo do you?

 

What does it mean? Style?

It's certainly not: "Form follows function"

Lenovo has taken advantage of the Thinkpad name/heritage and is determined to milk it like a Cash Cow.

 

The right hinge has some sort of wire inside it. that runs into the lid. I think its the wireless antennas maybe? Actually yea thats exactly what it is, 3 wireless antennas.

 

Thought youd know this by now, Im sure plentyy of people explained it to you already. The left hinge needs to be larger to accomodate all the wireless antennas. Lenovo's hinges are the most durable and sturdy ones you will ever see in the laptop industry. If you are so obsessed with aesthetics, might as well get a mac, oh wait...

braddd: more than three antennas, actually 5, to accomodate the WWAN antennas