Support: "90W ultraslim adapter is completely incompatible with X220"

All,

Okay, so bear with me for a few quick sentences here as I first explain my problem.

I have had two very strange problems with my new X220. For starters, the machine hibernates at random, flagging "critical battery" status, when there is far more battery left than is critical. This is an issue which has been previously reported on other ThinkPad models, but I'm not sure if a solution was ever articulated.

Secondly, the touchpad becomes so jumpy as to be unusable specifically when the 90W UltraSlim adapter is attached. This happens almost without exception, and being a computer technician by trade, I have run it through the usual troubleshooting/isolation process. Here is what I have tried:

• I tested with two different 90w UltraSlim AC Adapters.
• I tested on four different wall outlets in two different homes.
• I tested with and without the Lenovo Power Manager software installed.
• I tested before and after the Power Manager driver was reinstalled and updated.
• I tested with and without the battery attached.

The problem persists, although it alleviated itself for a brief while earlier today for no apparent reason.

So I contacted support to request a possible battery replacement (at least to try and correct the hibernation issue), and I am instead told that ALL 90W adapters are incompatible with this system. When I replied with the fact that they are sold WITH the system as optional accessories AND they are specified in the tabook, the support rep still held his ground. "The circuitry is not built to handle 90W", he says.

I think I speak for everyone who has read this far when I say "double-yoo-tee-eff?"

What would you do?

 

I would take it into warranty repair.
I had cursor problems on my T410 and it was keyboard problem with it, specifically trackpoint being too tightly connected to keyboard which caused it to jump on its own from time to time.
Dont know about battery, but either way, take it into service if they cant solve your laptops problems on the phone.

 

Problem is, service is apparently in Memphis, TN, and I really can't be without this system, as it's my primary workstation.

Things get stranger yet: another user on the Lenovo forums has now reported in my thread that they have the same touchpad problem as me. I wonder if there's something to this after all.

 

Look at the bottom of your laptop where it tells you the acceptable input power requirements. Multiply the input voltage with the listed amps, should be 3.25/4.5A. If its listed like that, tell the next tech support rep that tells you that BS to go kick rocks and get escalated.

I'm using 90w adapters from T60s and a slim adapter with my X220T without an issue.

Oh.. and Power Manager doesn't complain either (lists 90W AC adapter as attached)

 

Talk with another support rep. Go to the X220 order page on Lenovo's website and screenshot the "accessories" tab that shows the two 90w adapters. If they give you the same argument, insist on their e-mail address and send them the screenshot. Then ask to elevate to a supervisor.

 

Someone in Lenovo support needs some technical training. The computer will only take the power that it needs. I'm using a 65W PSU to run my T420s at this moment but my power meter at the socket says the PSU is using 19W. If I use a 90W PSU then I expect the power drain at the mains socket to be the same. It won't dramatically increase on account of a bigger PSU.

It's time to contact someone else in support.

John

 

I imagine the 19w is the usage by the laptop not counting charging a battery.

In any case, if the X220 (or T420) would only draw 20v at 4.5A , then you run the risk of overheating/causing a fire when using a 65w brick (assuming max draw)... assuming the laptop powers on at all.

The other way around is less of a concern, but the X220 is specifically designed to draw 4.5As too (again assuming 90W max usage for charging the battery, I don't know if the laptop itself can use 65w+)

 

You can't force current to flow; the machine will only use what it needs. Having an UNDERpowered power supply is very bad, but having one too big (provided it's the right voltage) won't matter in the slightest. That technician is a moron.

 

Yup. I agree completely. If your laptop only need 20 Watt, it only draw 20 Watt from the 90 W power adapter. Corret me if I'm wrong, 90 W is the maximum Power the power adapter can draw from your electrical socket.

 

i dont think so, my M4400 has a 130w adaptor, and some of the 17" monster laptops have 230w adaptors that are themselves the size of a small netbook :|

 

I also thought that the laptop would only draw what it needs, so does anyone know why the W520's 170W power supply is keyed such that it doesn't fit into thinkpads that come with lower powered power supplies?

170W adapter on the left:
http://msinetpub.vo.llnwd.net/d1/keithcombs/blog/images/w520/connect.jpg

 

I want to chime in and say I use my 90watt ultraslim adapter every day. No issues with my x220 here. I think OP needs to send his unit in for repair.

UPDATE: NOT TRUE, SEE BELOW

 

Ugh, not what I want to hear, but thank you for chiming in for sure!

 

WAIT, HOLDON. I just tested my 90watt ultraslim... I usually don't use the touchpad. I AM SEEING A JUMPY TOUCHPAD!

I am going to call tech support, either later this evening, or tomorrow.

 

like I said I'm using a 90w from a T60 (so old..) right now and its fine.

It doesn't jump at all. I can also use my gestures. Now mind you, I mostly use my trackpoint if its in laptop mode.

Slim adapter is also 90w, a few years old too. I'll double check when I get home.

Again, this is complete BS, so either they're lying on their specifications or there's something wrong with the laptop.

Also, the reason (at least my guess) they key the 170w (I'm pretty sure its 20v too... voltage of course matters) is they don't want some moron plugging in a low amp adapter, like the 65w, starting a fire, then suing them.

The ones that require 170w should be capable of drawing (the laptop itself) more power than the lower adapters can provide. Again, the laptop, not the charging component.

 

Well, something is at issue... Wow, this is wild! My touchpad is almost unusable now.

 

Listen, you've had the notebook no more than about a week, right? Surely for something almost brand new you have a right to a replacement rather than repair? Just get them to send you a new one and when it arrives, they can pick up the faulty machine. If their customer service is as good as everyone says, then that shouldn't be a problem, imho.

All that's assuming there is a fault with the notebook.

 

I wouldn't say the rep is wrong just yet: the 90W adapter says "Input voltage: 10.5-18V" on their website. I assume this is a mistake and they meant output. It's somewhat surprising to see variable DC output, so if the voltage is higher than the 65W adapter that might be an issue for the power converters on the laptop. If it has some sort of voltage requirement sensing thing that could be going haywire.

 

It's input. I think empower aircraft power is 18v, car is 12v, etc.

 

Oh okay nevermind sorry.

 

Not that it matters, are you guys talking about the Ultraslim adapter or the Slim adapter?

Like I said, mine is older (used it originally on my Z61m) so its the slim. No issues with Trackpad, again I'm using a X220T, which again, not sure why that would make a difference.

Bad news is the product specs on both slim and ultra slim don't mention the X220 series. I'm guessing it just hasn't been updated. If there's an issue, that's BS because they did list the Slim adapter as an accessory as you're purchasing the laptop. Also, the only thing that should matter is the connector (which is the same as all the compatible laptops listed) and the voltage and supplied amps.

See Picasa Gallery if proof:
https://picasaweb.google.com/112723...authkey=Gv1sRgCPGRxqDK8PGczAE&feat=directlink

Like someone else said, screenshot that crap, they're still listing the slim (looks like Ultra) as an accessory.

 

A few things.

1. I have the ULTRA-slim adapter.
2. On the adapter it clearly says 20V - 4.5A
3. Also, the trackpoint, while not jumpy, is a bit more "choppy" when on the ultraslim. Not as smooth as on battery, or on the 65watt adapter.

As soon as I call Lenovo Priority support, I'll let you know what they tell me.

 

Ok, more strangeness. I went back upstairs where I usually have my 90watt adapter plugged in, and it worked flawlessly! I called Lenovo and asked for a replacement, they ok'ed it, and I have to fax my proof of purchase of the adapter in, and they'll send out a replacement.

Right now, I'm thinking I got a slightly faulty adapter. I'll update everyone when the replacement comes, and if I have anymore issues with it.

 

I thought the same thing at first--but I've now tried two different UltraSlim adapters with completely different manufacturing dates (months apart), and both elicited the same problems.

Guess it's back to the store for the AC Adapter then...

 

If worse comes to worse, there is a 65watt adapter with a builtin usb hub, and a powered usb port. I'd be ok with that, but a little upset to loose the built-in car charger input.

BTW- When I called the priority support line, they knew NOTHING of the issue, so whatever is going on here, IBM/Lenovo doesn't seem to have its facts straight.

 

Wouldn't be the first time that 1st-tier technical support didn't get it right. Priority-level is a completely different world.

 

Just a thought: Lenovo has just released a BIOS update for the latest T and W series which includes:

Has there been a similar BIOS update for the X220? This could be related.

John

 

Dell has a T & W series?

Lenovo has released a 1.15 BIOS update for the X220, which has the same AC adapter fix as the other ThinkPad lines.

 

what is lenovo's equivalent of dell's prosupport?

 

90w PS works fine for x220 I had a rep give me the part number and I ordered it. In the mean time I'm using the 90w PS that runs my x61 which is the same part #. I bought that PS not that long ago. Neither of these are the ultra slims though.

 

Oops. Now corrected. I still have a Dell on my desk. I think you knew what i meant.

 

I did. Thus the in my post.

 

Just received my 90W Ultraslim AC/DC Combo Adapter today and must say that the trackpad is VERY jumpy and hard to use while plugged in. Not sure if the recent BIOS update to 1.15 will do anything or not but I'm going to try that tonight.

 

1.15 won't help.

 

Ok, thanks. I won't even bother updating then. X220 works perfectly except when on the 90w adapter so I'll leave well enough alone!

 

What's strange is that on another outlet, the problem doesn't occur. I think the adapter might be lacking its ability to deal with "dirty" power.

 

I thought the same, but after using it for long enough on all outlets I tested, the problem still occurred.

 

I wonder if some ferrite cores might solve the problem? Maybe that slim adapter throws off a lot of RF interference, which is travelling down the power cord.

EDIT: I see there is already one integrated into the power cord already. I wonder if it's not good enough?

 

Anyone hear anything that might fix this issue yet?

 

Nope, and I'm just about to return my 90W. Seriously, it's pretty ridiculous that there has been no response by anyone in support yet. If you guys want to try and push the issue with me on the official support forums it might help!

Re: 90w adapter leads to unusable, jumpy touchpad - Lenovo Community

 

Priority-level support should be the equivalent of Dell ProSupport, although I've dealt with Dell ProSupport (excellent) and not with Lenovo. Both are additional-fee options when purchasing your warranty package.

I've seen a lot of inconsistency in forum users' experiences with 1st-tier standard phone support. This 90w adapter bit is just one example.

 

i really dont trust standard support. its not worth the frustration, especially since i rely on my laptops for work (and also long distance relationship! thank goodness for skype)

since dell is replacing my M4400, im contemplating selling the replacement and getting the W520...two things keeping me from pulling the trigger on the w520 is i dont know how good lenovo support is,- in fact i've heard a lot of horror stories about even their premium support, and that bloody thinklight instead of a backlit keyboard....

 

For what it's worth, the ThinkLight on my T420 is noticeably brighter than that on my T61 or T400, and has better coverage of the keyboard.

So far, I haven't had to rely on Lenovo support. What I've seen here has caused me to recommend never going without onsite support, though.

With Dell (this is what I'd probably do for Lenovo too, if they have the option) I use the online-chat support. No language barrier issues, and I have a record of everything that went on should I need to build a paper trail. I've never had an issue with it, and it's faster than waiting on hold.

 

i've never had to be put on hold for prosupport. and i get assigned someone so i can call them personally to follow up if needed.

 

Dell ProSupport is pretty awesome, I have never dealt with any Lenovo issues, so it will be interesting to see if/when things come up how it's dealt with since I just got standard support.

 

I get that too. Well, I do for about 15-25 more days until our contracts run out at work.

I just like chat because it's fast and easy. I like the built-in paper trail too. It never hurts to have the chat logs.

So far (one month), my T420 has shown great build quality, so I doubt I'm going to have issues.

 

Any word whether using the 90w AC adapter on a Thinkpad Minidock Plus also has issues with the X220?

 

Is it just the ultraslim 90w ac adapters that have the problem? Or does the regular 90w adapater ( Lenovo - Laptop and desktop - Batteries & Power 40Y7659 (US)) mess up the trackpad as well?

 

@zygomatic and @Yamnave

As far as I know, no one has reported issues on either of these situations. If you have findings to report, that'd be great.

 

Interesting issue/resolution for issues I was having with the X220 Power/touchpad problem. I tried at least 5 different plug packs, ranging from 65W to 90W, and every single one would cause the touchpad to become un-usably erratic immediately. Until, I was testing it on a different outlet and it worked great, but it wasn't the outlet, it turned out to be that it was sitting on a metal desk (formica over metal.) As soon as I would place it on the desk as long as it was plugged in, the touch pad would go nuts, not on the desk, great.

Sounds like EMI issues to me, or this desk is radioactive.