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    T510 (and T410) left palmrest creak video

    Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by Mutnat, Apr 3, 2010.

  1. JM

    JM Mr. Misanthrope NBR Reviewer

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    Just to update people who are still within the 21 day rule:

    I contacted IBM Tech Support to get a case number (to then call Lenovo to get an RMA number/return label), and the IBM rep I spoke with had heard of this issue before, and issued a case number within like two minutes.

    Lenovo was just as easy. Called in, let them know I had a case number, confirmed customer info, let them know what the issue was, and they issued an RMA/UPS return label to me.

    So if you're within the 21 days, I advise taking them up on the return option. Not sure of what I want to do next (whether order a different Lenovo system or find a different product).

    Just figured I'd post this, so if anyone else runs into this, they can read a prior experience on it.
     
  2. nxman

    nxman Notebook Geek

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    Cheap plastic creaks!
     
  3. gpig

    gpig Notebook Deity

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    My 15.4 inch T61p developed this too, but only in the right hand edge below the track pad.
     
  4. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    And this is precisely what the IBM/ Lenovo people in India are not doing despite issuing a complaint number and "escalating" the problem!!! I'm gonna call them today!
     
  5. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    OK. There has been some movement at my end too.

    This morning, the creaking (righthand side of R400) got very irritating. With no response from Lenovo, I got very frustrated and called the Lenovo India Head Office. I told the person who picked up the phone (probably the telephone operator or receptionist) that I was mad as hell and wanted the contact number and email address of the Manager (India) for Customer Service. She put me on hold while she tried to connect me. We went through the exercise 3 times (we were getting disconnected for some odd reason). Finally, in the grumpiest mood I have been in as far as I can remember in recent times, I demanded the email address of the Lenovo (India) Managing Director. I was surprised for without a fuss, she gave me his email and name. I thanked her. Got off the phone. I then checked out whether the name she gave me was real or not on the web. The name was real! So, I shot off an email - I was polite, but my irritation was perhaps quite apparent - to him with the log of events that I was maintaining (as lead_org advised me to do). Then I took a shower and went to work.

    Just after lunch time, I received a call on my mobile phone. It was from Lenovo. A contrite sounding Manager of Service and Warranty told me that my problem had been brought to his attention and that my problem would be addressed in 48 hours. When I asked how the problem would be solved, he said that I would be called by a Service Engineer within the next hour seeking an appointment to visit me - either at my place of work or residence - who would fix the problem. He confirmed my address and got off the phone. An hour or so later, the Service Engineer called to make the appointment. He will be coming over tomorrow to do what needs to be done.

    While it may be too early to celebrate, at least there is some movement! As and when the problem gets fixed, I will email the Lenovo India MD again and will thank him. And, incase the problem is fixed to my satisfaction one other thing would have happened - I will probably not buy a laptop other than a ThinkPad again!

    Cheers!
     
  6. k2001

    k2001 Notebook Deity

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    I check the a computer lab in my school that is full of R500, and none of them had this problem.
     
  7. Mutnat

    Mutnat Notebook Consultant

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    I could. I'm just not sure I want to start taking apart my month-old laptop.
     
  8. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yeah, I agree, which is why I have also resisted the urge. Though, I believe this is exactly what some folks do when they get their new machines!

    Anyways, let's see what the Lenovo guy does tomorrow..err...later today.

    BTW, the Lenovo tech will be seeing your video tomorrow! The Manager who called me did not believe his ears when I told him that videos showing this creaking problem across ThinkPad models were on the web!!!
     
  9. Mutnat

    Mutnat Notebook Consultant

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    Wow, glad I could be of assistance! We look forward to hearing the resolution...
     
  10. lkpcampion

    lkpcampion Notebook Consultant

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    Yup! Please let us know how it turns out. We'd love to be able to refer to your case and seek for their help fixing it.
     
  11. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yeah...of course. Will do!
     
  12. JM

    JM Mr. Misanthrope NBR Reviewer

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    And ... cancel that return and switch to service!

    Housemate spilled about 15oz of coke DIRECTLY onto my ThinkPad, RIGHT as I was printing out the RMA return label. Glad I bought the 3 year warranty upgrade with accidental coverage and have backup computers.

    Maybe the palm rest creak will be fixed when they repair/replace it. =P

    Now, I'm off to kill my housemate!
     
  13. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    The IBM Service engineer showed up on time and saw the problem. He took off the palm rest and refitted it. At first he thought that that would solve the problem. He was disappointed! He then took off the palm rest and checked the tabs on it and the slots into which the palmrest slides into. I think he found a problem with the slots (which are on the frame of the machine). He took a video copy of the problem and he is coming back sometime tomorrow to work things out. The options possible are as follows:

    (1) Replace palmrest. If it does not solve the problem
    (2) Replace the frame of the machine. If that does not solve the problem
    (3) Replace the machine. If this happens, then they will handle whatever issues arise with transfering the OS and with the transferring of my data and other apps.

    On my part, I showed him the email I sent the Managing Director of Lenovo (India) and he was a bit startled to see that. It put him in the right frame of mind to do his work, I guess.

    Will keep you folks posted on what happens next.

    Cheers!

    EDIT: He seemed shell-shocked to see video!!! He asked me to email him a copy of the link to him and to the Service Manager in India!!!! So, you see, your video has helped in some way and thanks to you. Rep follows!
     
  14. Mutnat

    Mutnat Notebook Consultant

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    Wow. Yeah it's amassed over 250 views now--I wasn't expecting that kind of popularity! LOL. Glad to hear things are in progress for you. We look forward to hearing tomorrow's outcome.
     
  15. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Update on the palmrest (right hand side creaking) matter:

    The Lenovo guys are doing this somewhat methodically. Their Service Manager called early this morning to tell me that they have ordered a palmrest with a different FRU (I did not quite understand what he meant by this - perhaps someone here can explain. I always thought a different FRU number means an item either manufactured by a different company (like the keyboard scenario) or an item specific to a different machine or class of machines).

    An engineer will come to my residence in the evening (after calling me and making sure that it is convenient for me) and will install it to see if the problem is solved. If not, then they will move to the next step - replace the frame.

    Will keep you folks posted.

    Cheers!
     
  16. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Another update:

    The Managing Director of Lenovo (India) was kind enough to reply to my email. That was a very cool gesture on his part. He also cc'd a copy of the mail to the Head of Service (India) with the ominous (to the Head of Service) statement that he wanted to be kept updated on how my complaint was serviced. I must say I am impressed.

    I have received 3 calls and 1 text message from Lenovo staff over the day. They informed me (very apologetically) that the palmrest that they requested from their warehouse would only arrive on Monday and if it was ok with me. I said no problem and they have fixed up an appointment to again come over to my place and replace it and see if there is an improvement.

    I am going to reply to the MD either on Sunday or on Monday. I am sure that now my problem will be solved - one way or another. In my email, I will, first express my thanks to the MD; second, I will gently point out that it is a waste of his time that he has to intervene to get such matters fixed; third, I will congratulate him on his attention to keeping a customer happy and satisfied; and lastly, I will assure him that I will remain a loyal ThinkPad customer!

    Cheers!
     
  17. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    It is now obvious that the Lenovo (India) MD's intervention has worked. I have been receiving calls and emails from the Heads of their Service and Channel departments/ divisions. Tomorrow (Monday) is when I expect the problem to be finally resolved. The outcome of this is the following:

    (1) I have learnt that top management are actually sensitive to customer complaints and don't just brush off these issues;

    (2) When the top management does get involved, there is a flurry of activity;

    (3) The problem from the customer's side is that they do not take the trouble to direct their problems to the top management - admittedly, it is a problem getting the relevant contact info, but as my experience shows, persistence pays. I don't think, as customers, we do enough to 'rock the boat'. We need to do this more often. This will shake up the customer-facing structure of the company and will, in time, compel it to be more responsive to us; and...

    (4) I don't think (all things remaining constant) I will opt to buy any other machine other than a ThinkPad.

    Final update will be tomorrow and then this chapter - for me - is closed. Now, after this, the next thing I will do is buy a high capacity mobile HDD, back up my files and do another fresh install of the OS.

    EDIT: I should also apologize to you folks for perhaps boring you with all this. But some of you did want me to keep you updated on how things panned out.
     
  18. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    Well at least everyone has some sort of public record of how things are handled in different parts of the world, in terms what can be done or can't do when it comes to repair and customer vigilance.
     
  19. Aikimox

    Aikimox Weihenstephaner!

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    My W510 has the exact same issue with the left palmrest.
    Looking forward to your progress guys. Might be calling Lenovo as well soon.
     
  20. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Based on my experience, I would say that give the Lenovo Warranty & Customer Service some time - I gave them about 3 weeks. Once those 3 weeks were up, I moved heaven and earth to get right to the top and as you may have read in my updates, it worked. The key is to be able to get the contact info of the guy or gal on the top - that may be a bit difficult to get but not impossible. The important thing is that you MUST bring it to their attention because its small stuff like this which makes an excellent product look bad and leave a bad taste in the mouth.
     
  21. dlhuss

    dlhuss Notebook Consultant

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    Unfortunately I don't have the photos (or the Thinkpad) any more, but I had an easy fix to the problem on my T60 in 2008. It involved removing the palmrest and putting felt pads under it - not elegant, but very effective - nary a creak for the two years I owned my Thinkpad:

    "That mushy feel and creaking sound wasn't what I was expecting from a Thinkpad, but I fixed it.

    I wanted to use some small rubber pads that i thought I had laying around - couldn't find them. So I just took a few 1cm diameter sticky felt pads about 1.5mm thick and stuck them on the underside on my palmrest. Here are the photos:

    Felt Pads (click pic to enlarge):


    See the white dots (click pic to enlarge):


    There is still a slight flex under the fingerprint reader, but I didn't want to mess under there because of the electronics. The Left side was ok for me. I tried a couple pads near the edge, but it didn't really help.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by dlhuss : 01-03-2008 at 04:40 AM."


    Of course the shell over the express card slot flexed, but just forget about it - that's how it's been at least since T60's. It's not a defect - it's designed that way, like it or not.
     
  22. Mutnat

    Mutnat Notebook Consultant

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    Hey lineS of flight, I don't think we ever got a final update from you. Did you manage to get the creaking noise resolved? If so, what did it take? If not, what's happening with your case? Thanks!
     
  23. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Sorry....yes, there is an update. I have been advised by Lenovo that they will replace my current machine with a brand new one and someone from the ThinkPad Center will be with me when the new machine is delivered and will ensure that I am satisfied. I did have a question for these guys though - what happens to the OS that I bought with my current machine? And, what happens to the single user licenses of softwares that I installed in my existing machine? Since I need them for work, these softwares will have to be reinstalled in the new machine. The folks from IBM assured me that they would take care of this - though I don't exactly know how they propose to do so. In so far as Windows 7 is concerned, I am sure they can manage it through their own channels, but for the other more specific programs, I really don't know.

    So, now I am waiting for the machine to show up with the service people. This should happen sometime this week. I am actually impressed (after taking into account the initial rough times) by how Lenovo/IBM took care of the problem. Once I am satisfied, I will email their Managing Director (India) to express my thanks!
     
  24. lkpcampion

    lkpcampion Notebook Consultant

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    That is most impressive lineS of fight. I can never imagine IBM service department is going to treat the problem in any way like yours.

    The last time I mentioned it to them, the tech says they CANNOT warrant on this issue...... they send a guy to replace my palm rest for some other reason, which does not solve the problem....
     
  25. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    They did that too. They did send a guy with a new palmrest to fix, the problem was when he fixed it it had the same problem, which he then proceeded to photgraph and make a video of. So, it was not me who gave them the evidence but one of their own. But I think what got them going was I emailed the Lenovo Managing Director directly and to my surprise, he emailed me back with a copy to the Country Service Manager saying that the problem would be taken care of one way or another. I also referred them to NBR (so, yes, all you guys played a role in this) to show that I was not fooling around and that there was a technically aware community of ThinkPad users who have problems like these which are generally (but not always) swept under the carpet.

    So, I guess when the MD of any company starts taking a personal interest in a specific matter, things start moving. Can you believe it, I send him emails on a weekly basis updating him on how Lenovo/IBM have handled the case and I do mention names!!!

    Lastly, it was thanks to a suggestion by lead_org to maintain a log of events that helped because that was the first mail I sent to the MD and it did not make for a very good read, of that I am sure!

    Anyways, now waiting for the new machine!
     
  26. u4mx6

    u4mx6 Notebook Enthusiast

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    does anyone have this creak just above the whole to the left of the touchpad buttons on the sloped part of the palmrest?
     
  27. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Since I detailed an account of the creaking problem with my R400 palm rest here, the closing account of what happened in the end can be found here.

    Cheers!
     
  28. raeef

    raeef Notebook Enthusiast

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    I got my laptop 3 days ago, it's a T510. The first thing I checked for was this left palm rest creak I didn't have it, but I found out a different creak :( It's on the right palm rest , near the screen latch. Here are the videos ( taken by my digital camera so the quality is bad. )

    Does anyone have this?


    YouTube - MVI_3986.AVI


    YouTube - MVI_3984.AVI
     
  29. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    this means there is a gap between the palmrest and magnesium chassis. The only way to deal with it, is actually getting a felt pad or rubber pad and stick it underneath it. But given that the palmrest of the T510 is not a user replaceable parts, i think you may have the send the laptop in.
     
  30. raeef

    raeef Notebook Enthusiast

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    I called them, they told me to either send it to Lenovo or look for a partner in my area. Which one is the best option?
     
  31. raeef

    raeef Notebook Enthusiast

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    Isn't it the same as the W510 ? In their training video they have one for replacing the palmrest for T510/W510
     
  32. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    If they are user replaceable, then go ahead and do the mod that i mentioned, it usually works quite well.

    But looking at the video, the palmrest replacement is not part of the customer replaceable unit, so i think it is best that you send it in first. If they can't fix it, then you should try the method that i mentioned.
     
  33. raeef

    raeef Notebook Enthusiast

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    How many days does it usually take to have my laptop fixed at Lenovo (to send it and get it back ) ?
     
  34. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    for a palmrest usually 5 days.
     
  35. marlinspike

    marlinspike Notebook Deity

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    Honestly, is there any part of a laptop that isn't customer replaceable? Even a motherboard is pretty easy to replace. It's all just screws and snaps, there are no torque values, no need for temperature control, no carbon fiber gaskets you have to surface prep for.
     
  36. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    That is true, however, there is an issue of warranty. It is a gamble, if you don't need your warranty, then you could change any part of the laptop you want.
     
  37. pstrisik

    pstrisik Notebook Evangelist

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    I had track pad issues from day one, so I finally contacted Lenovo for repair. I have onsite service, so I didn't have to do without my computer at all. The fix was to replace the palmrest/bezel. I got to watch to make sure nothing bad happened in the process. All went smooth, the track pad now works perfectly.

    As a side benefit, the left side creak/tapping is 90% better. There is no tapping at all and the creak is minor. It doesn't happen at all unless I try to make it happen. It used to be that it would do its tap,tap whenever I placed my palm on that side of the computer, like when using the escape or tab keys.

    .
     
  38. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Reading all these threads about the palmrest creaks and having experienced the same myself, I can't help get the feeling that there is something seriously wrong with the current crop of Thinkpads across the various series (well, perhaps with the exception of the X).

    I wonder why Lenovo does not check into this or if they do, then why don't they do something about it? It has got to be evident to them that there is something quite wrong here.
     
  39. marlinspike

    marlinspike Notebook Deity

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    At the end of the day, this is all bottom-dollar made in China stuff, and that includes the typical understaffing and disregard for quality control that normally comes with it.
     
  40. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    You know, there is another strange thing I am coming to notice recently about these creaks etc. If you leave aside the problem that I had (it was a very strange problem), in my newly replaced machine, there was nary a creak when it was first unboxed in front of me. There was no creaking for the first two weeks that I had it on me. Suddenly, creaks started emerging, but this time from the left-hand side - just over the xpress card slot (just like some of the videos show) and right by the left touchpad button. Some of the creaking is still there, but the more I use the machine, the creaks seems to go away. This is like the machine is settling down or something! I wonder if this has also happened to others. Mind you that I am not saying that I am getting used to the creaks for the (increasingly) few times that it happens, it remains irritating, but for sure the incidence seems to be coming down.
     
  41. bradsh

    bradsh Notebook Consultant

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    my machine was creaky from the first day out of the box. it's a design flaw. there is nothing keeping the upper and lower halves of the machine from moving on each other on the front lip.

    try this: compress the very front lip of the machine. you will see the top and bottom half move past each other. this is the source of the problem: a lack of strength at the front edge. for whatever reason, they are not designed to mate solidly like other notebooks. perhaps this is for "durability".
     
  42. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    Sorry, did not get that. How is it for "durability"? You are not suggesting that a little bit of play increases "durability" are you? Though I can see how sometimes too tight a fit can be a problem. Could you please explain? Thanks.
     
  43. marlinspike

    marlinspike Notebook Deity

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    Think of it like a crumple zone. It introduces give in the system so the outershell gives rather than breaks, and also slows down the movement before the rigid substructure is affected. No idea if this is on purpose, but that would be the result.
     
  44. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    :confused: :eek: :D Now, that's a hell of a way to achieve this. Increase noise pollution (within someone's personal work/play space) while at the same time increase "durability"!!!!!
     
  45. marlinspike

    marlinspike Notebook Deity

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    Like I said, I have no idea if that's actually what they're doing (in fact, I doubt it is because from the sounds of it not ever machine is affected similarly), but that would be the end result. My better guess is they're trying to achieve this affect to the greatest extent they can without introducing noise, but because of tolerances sometimes it makes noise and sometimes it doesn't. Personally, I'd gladly take a little creaking in exchange for greater computer durability (although, note that keeping a gap for the sake of the computer insides does mean you have weakened the computer outsides, but again, personally, I much rather have a broken off piece of palmrest that I can replace on my own schedule at minimum cost than a broken motherboard that renders my computer useless and my data inaccessible without a second computer - this one, btw, is something they are doing on purpose when they use an endoskeleton instead of a mac-like unibody).
     
  46. lineS of flight

    lineS of flight Notebook Virtuoso

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    @marlinspike...hmmm...it's certainly an interesting theory! Though I am still...well, how should I put it...! You know what I mean!
     
  47. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    crumple zone doesn't increase durability, it is actually quite the opposite. The whole idea behind the use of crumple zone in cars, was to absorb the impact energy of crash and use it deform the front superstructure of the car. Basically the crumple zone is there to decrease the momentum of the crash, which reduces the severity of the crash to the occupants.

    Crumple zone also directs away the engine from entering into the car and crushing the footwell area... which is a common injury in old cars at moderate speed head on collision.

    At 30 km per hour collision, the modern Benz would suffer more damage to the front end, then a Benz from 1960 without a crumple zone.

    The creaking is due to the poor tolerance between the parts. There is also not enough points of contact between the palmrest area and the magnesium rollcage underneath.... In addition, the differential movement of parts would also cause the creaking, when one surface move across another.
     
  48. marlinspike

    marlinspike Notebook Deity

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    Eh, I'm playing fast and loose with the English language a bit. It happens when you disavow your allegiance to the queen of england. Here's what I mean - in a car, you are concerned with the "durability" of the passengers. With a laptop you are concerned with the "durability" of the parts that are actually required to function.

    BTW, MB was already using crumple zones in 1960...
     
  49. lead_org

    lead_org Purveyor of Truth

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    I should say early 1960s Benz, which did not have the crumple zone.

    I think the creaking of Thinkpads are not due to durability concerns, but a result of thinner external PC/ABS casing materials, which saves weight.
     
  50. marlinspike

    marlinspike Notebook Deity

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    W111 had crumple zones. Came out in 1959.
     
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