The Upcoming ThinkPad X230, X230i, T430, T430i, T530, T530i and W530?

@ syllogistic... i read a reference somewhere or the other regarding nvidia being about to make a big announcement on the 15th of May. I wonder if that might have something to do with the newer Quadros.

Hoping that's the case as i can't bear waiting to see what the W530 and other competing workstations have to offer.

 

They probably don't have much invested in market research - if anything. I've been involved in countless market studies and consumer/end user focus groups, and you learn so much - the problem is companies pay more attention to cost savings and the bottom line. What they loose site of is the value of the brand they have built - you can't put a number on it. Not only the value of a brand, but the *time* it takes to build a strong brand - years. All of this can be lost in one poor marketing decision. Lenovo has turned down that road and it should be interesting to see market reactions. My prior company deployed two brands of laptops to the field, and IT actually surveyed the end users before making future purchasing decisions.

 

After using my x220 for the past six months or so, I personally find typing on a chiclet keyboards much harder. My wife and I much prefer the x220 keyboard to our previous chiclet laptops.

 

Lenovo's keys are slightly beveled to compensate. They are not completely flat.

 

Looks like you may be right -- NVIDIA's GPU Technology Conference 2012 is from May 14th and supposedly there will be 'big GPU news' at the opening keynote on May 15th: NVIDIA CEO, Experts in Crowd Behavior, Space To Keynote At GTC 2012 NVIDIA

Had hoped Lenovo might have announced their new lines by then, but maybe they're waiting for NVIDIA?

 

@ syllogistic..... Im hoping that's the case.

Btw anyone have an idea on the typical timeframe for nvidia/amd to bring out their workstation graphics once the consumer lines are out.

 

Oh, I am pretty sure that Lenovo will announce the new Classic-Update in this time frame. 14th or 15th of May is ideal for Lenovo, and they will have their Accelerate 2012 event from May 14-16 ( http://lenovoaccelerate.com/). Last year they announce the X1 to their last year accelerate event, so I think thats a good deadline for the announcment.

 

Does anyone think it'll be possible to buy an older (classic) thinkpad keyboard to replace the chiclet keyboards in the newer thinkpads? Or do the sizes look completely different?

 

They will be different, so nope!

 

No. .

 

I, for one, am not giving up hope yet. This would be the perfect generation to leave changing the keyboard as an option because there's not going to be a major chassis change. There's no benefit in thinness to be gained from the cheaper keyboard until a major chassis change, so they might as well be the same depth/shape...

That said, it's not looking likely.

 

Beveled keys on their way out. If you still want the traditional keyboard, you will need to hang on to your SB Thinkpads for a while. Not that Ivy Bridge is bringing a huge performance increase anyway...

No other major manufacturer makes laptops with beveled keys anymore. A pity, sure, but it's not something that bothers me. So long as the keys still have enough travel and feedback - it doesn't matter to me what the keys are physically.

 

Hope is good. Maybe a mobo swap instead of a keyboard swap is more possible.

 

Keep in mind that the ThinkPad "chiclet" keys don't have the common "chiclet"-style keycaps. They're not flat; they're cupped slightly just like the keycaps of traditional keyboards.

Stroke depth is pretty much the same too.

 

Is the palm rest larger on the x230 with the new chicklet keyboard? That would be a big advantage.

 

I wonder if people that are completely against a chicklet keyboard on a Thinkpad have tried the keyboard on an X1. I tried in against the X220's and found it very very good. I definitively wouldn't mind the change.

 

I thought the X1 backlit keyboard was really good. Compared to many of the other chiclet keyboards I've used, it's actually excellent.

I still prefer the T61p NMB I have over it, but I am looking forward to back lighting for ThinkPads.

 

I'm using the one on the x120 which is pretty much the same as on the x1 and while it's certainly not a keyboard disaster of apple-ish proportions I also still prefer the traditional one. A T61p NMB certainly ruins you for other keyboards.

But I see what lenovo wants out of this. Chiclet keyboards look 'fresher' and are cheaper to make. And that seems to be the way of things these days, even with Thinkpads (" For those who want shiny overpriced products"?).

 

No, it's not the same. They're similar in style, but they're not the same FRUs and they have different mechanical designs, if only because of the latter's backlighting. (IIRC, the throw on the X1 keyboard is slightly longer than the X120e.)

Also, I have no idea if they're "cheaper to make". Might I ask where you're getting that information from? Or are you just assuming? (If the current OEM parts prices are any indication, the X1 keyboard is most certainly not cheaper than traditional X series keyboards.)

 

The X1 keyboard is more expensive, because of backlight. Here in Europe the X1 keyboard costs about 80 €, the T/W/X keyboard costs about 50 €.

 

Somewhere someone posted comments from some lenovo guy saying that it was cheaper. And it has to be. Just think of how notoriously difficult it is (or was, R.I.P.) to make a really solid, good, non-bending traditional keyboard. Does that even exist?

x1 vs x120, sure it's not the same FRU, but the basic design must be similar, especially the much-touted key design that indeed makes it better than other chiclet keyboards.

 

The X120e keyboard has a significantly shorter throw than the X1 and traditional Thinkpad keyboards.

Other than the keycaps, the X1 and X120e keyboards share very little in common.

 

I posted it.
I chatted with one guy who runs lenovo blog in my country.
He said that the laptop makers basically outsource the keyboard manufaturing and those keyboard manufaturers make mostly the chiclet keyboards, so buying the classic keyboard into thinkpads would be more and more expensive.

He compared it to the situation when all OEM switched to 16:9 LCDs from 16:10 ones.
Anyway I have classic thinkpad and I also tried the X1. From my point of view bad is switch from 7 row to 6 row keyboard, especially when it looks like that there will be 7th row with the volume and thinkvantage buttons. There is no sense in that, cos I though that they are trying to save some space in order to make the touchpad larger...

 

So it's second hand from a guy who runs a blog who got it from... uh. Right.

I'm not saying it doesn't sound plausible -- efficiencies of scale and all -- but that's far from a good source.

It's true that Lenovo does source keyboards from third parties, but at least one of the keyboard manufacturers for Lenovo (Chicony) still produces "traditional" keyboards. I'd also be a bit skeptical of the cost claim since the keycap design is rather uncommon and the rest of the keyboard is pretty much the same, chiclet or otherwise: the back plate looks the same, the keyboards are still scissor-switch, etc. Also, since Lenovo is the only one currently producing laptops that use the TrackPoint their designs are going to be different than those of other vendors.

So yeah, I'm skeptical it's for cost reasons.

The keycaps design is similar, but IIRC the X1xxe use a slightly smaller keycap size. The switch assembly is also slightly different due to the backlight. So yeah, I imagine they feel *similar*, but they certainly are different -- and (at least in my experience) don't offer exactly the same typing experience. Personally I prefer the X1 a bit more, but it could just be because of the palmrest.

*shrug* Keyboard feel is pretty subjective anyways. Use whichever one feels best.

 

Yeah, lets close the keyboard discussion on those words.

So nobody found any new pics or specs of the "The Upcoming ThinkPad X230, X230i, T430, T430i, T530, T530i and W530"??

 

No new pics, but some specs are here: Thinkpad Shop - Die neuen Lenovo ThinkPad Modelle sind da!

 

If the T430s follows the T420s, it will also be dockable. The T430u at CES didn't have dock connectors on the bottom. For many business users, this makes the T430u a non-starter.

 

This also hurt the X1. At least it did in my company.

 

The new laptops are so thin that the old type keyboard would not fit anymore. The new chiclet keyboard was designed thinner. This was _the_ reason we were told

My colleague tested t430 a lot last saturday and today he said that he might as well choose HP next. He didn't like the new kb that much (x201 user). I had my hands on couple models too but I concentrated more on the slide shows. Couple other guys who have x220's now did also try the t430 a longer period but I haven't heard their comments.

Considering the amount of alcohol consumed afterwards I think some of the memories have gotten erased already

 

Since not all new laptops are as thin at t430u, I am guessing they'll try to make them?

I wouldn't mind chiclet keyboard as long as it has a nice feedback and isn't "shallow". And I simply don't see that happening with super-thin laptops.

 

I guess that's what I assumed when I first heard about this move. I figured a thinner W530 might be nice. Until the real specs are released from Lenovo I don't think we'll know.

Maybe after the big partner conference next week we'll know more.

 

Me X201 user too. Me love X201 keyboard a lot. It gonna be tough.

Chiclet keyboard + fantastic screen = look elsewhere.

 

We do: According to this
http://image.xinmin.cn/2012/04/25/20120425012038482309.jpg
the W530 is going to have the Nvidia Quadro 2100M

More on 2100M:
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 2100M - Notebookcheck.net Tech
The NVS 2100M supports PureVideo HD (with Video Processor VP4) to decode HD videos in the formats H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 ASP using the GPU. This helps reducing the CPU load and should lead to higher battery runtimes when viewing HD videos.

 

Oh, no, that is not the Quadro 2100M. The GPU listet by Notebookcheck is the nVidia NVS 2100M, a older low end business-GPU. The Quadro 2100M is not official announcend (announcment will come on 14-16 May timeframe).

 

Yeah I agree. It has to be a new Kepler part. And since nvidia has no yield on 28nm it could even be responsible for delays..

 

it should be a 630m Nvidia, if they are using the same GPU as the new E430 and E530.

 

In the W-series? If yes, then just rofl.

 

Maybe a CPU swap is, depending on BIOS. Ivy Bridge should have the same socket, and similar chipset support.

I'm hoping I can just do a CPU swap in my T420 for lower power consumption and improved Intel HD graphics.

 

I think Intel said mobile CPUs can't be swapped. A board, then CPU swap might work depending on the case, though it sounds expensive.

 

if its the 630m its just the same as the nvs4200, basically the 430m/435m/540m/550/555m/630m/635m/640m LE are the same core, with basically the same clocks, its fermi in the low end. The best that we can hope is a 640m and not the LE version since its the same rebadge for 3 years

 

i'm waiting for T430

since intel 4000 will be significantly faster than intel 3000, is there a point in getting discrete graphics model, especially since it's likely that it will be at best equipped with low-end Nvidia model?

 

The current SB chipsets won't support Ivy Bridge chips. Intel has mentioned this many times already. If you like the old chassis/keyboard, you will have to keep your T420 indefinitely, perhaps.

I, for one, welcome our new chiclet overlords. Though the new layout doesn't faze me.

 

Yes, the new layout is not great. It's interesting how Lenovo first makes Esc and Delete keys largest of all, and it is convenient, yet in the very next iteration these are one of smallest keys, with even PrtSc being considerably larger.

Anyway, it's possible to get used to even this in a couple of days. One thing that Lenovo should do, however, is to release a new USB keyboard with the exact same layout. The ability to have the very same keyboard with TrackPoint while docked and while on the go is one of the great advantages of Thinkpads today.

 

I could imagine there is professional graphics software that needs a certified driver and the latest OGL or whatever. For the moment that would mean a discrete GPU.

For the casual gamer the HD4k might really be good enough. Apparently it's almost as fast as the FX880/GF330M in the W510 with the usual benchmarks...

 

Jumping on this thread to track the upcoming releases ever since I lost my fully specc-ed out T420 i7 laptop to the Amazon rainforest (depot folks claimed unrepairable due to corrosion = pure hogwash).

I sincerely hope that the X230 will have a higher resolution screen (IPS not required). That's the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger. Let's see what changes are in store for T430s/T430u too. Honestly, I think the X3xx series was the sweet spot for me and wish Lenovo would make a sequel without X1's compromises.

I'll reserve my judgement on the new keyboard until I see it in person.

 

I don't want the chiclet keyboard, and don't have to have Ivy Bridge if that's what it means --I had just hoped for an easy upgrade, as I'm happy with my T420 but would love the IGP upgrade.

Not disagreeing with you, but do you have a citation on the chipset thing? Desktop SB chipsets will support Ivy, so I'm a bit surprised that mobile ones will not.

EDIT: Found one myself. http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2011121302_Mobile_Intel_7_Series_Chipsets_Panther_Point_.html

 

Swap out your current T420 for a machine that has the NVS 4200M. Good boost if you can deal with the graphics switching.

 

It really depends on what you're doing.

I currently have the Optimus model of T420. Performance is great --heat is not when Optimus is running. I'm not convinced that Optimus is switching on and off at the best times, and it can really drive the fan and heat my power brick up considerably. But the performance certainly beats the Intel HD graphics.

The new nVidia graphics will probably be built on a smaller die process, and run a bit cooler; it will still probably perform better than Intel HD 4000, especially in specific tasks (I'm betting OpenGL for sure, among others). But it probably won't be enough for me to get it this time around; at 1600x900 the HD 4000 should be enough for what I want, and save me a hundred bucks. But if you're running certain graphical design apps, or CAD, the nVidia chip will probably have an edge.

Already have it (see sig and above). I want more performance with less heat and power consumption. The keyboard on the T430 may be a deal-breaker for me though, and my T420 has been a stellar notebook that I've been very happy with.

 

Exactly. No point in upgrading, see? You just saved yourself a few hundred bucks.

 

I love my x220 (my first ThinkPad) and am looking for a second laptop for my wife and (in reality) to use as a desktop replacement. I am waiting to see what the w530 will look like. I thought about just going cheap with a Sony Vaio F Series for a desktop replacement, but the keyboard is a chiclet. Although it is not absolutely a deal breaker for me, the keyboard on my x220 is so much nicer than any other laptop that I have owned. So for now, I am just waiting for the W530 with Ivy Bridge to be released.