The Upcoming ThinkPad X230, X230i, T430, T430i, T530, T530i and W530?

Yea, but Lenovo hasn't announced the specs for their machines yet. Or have they?

Who knows, maybe Lenovo has some surprises coming.

 

Speculation. Some German website posted that the T430/T430s will feature the NVS 5200M as discrete graphics options. If they do, it will be a great disappointment.

And I actually use the NVS 4200M on my T420 for gaming purposes, and its performance depends on the game - some games have excellent performance, other games just crap out like its no tomorrow due to the narrow memory bus.

 

Lets wait until they officially announce the specs. Then we can complain about the decisions.

 

Gary Oldman - "Leon the Professional" "everyone" scene (HD) - YouTube

More seriously - yes, a high PPI used to be an issue on Windows systems.
However, it looks like MS did their homework well: Metro UI: Guidelines for scaling to pixel density.

 

Like high PPI is going to matter on a ThinkPad in 2012.

 

I agree. A previous gen dedicated GPU would be a disappointment.

 

Amen to that brotha! Hallelujah, hallelujah!!

 

It's nvidia, so I wouldn't count on marketing names being correct or making sense.
N13P and N14P are apparently the cores, and a little google search suggests those are 28nm. But I agree, if they're not that would be pathetic.

 

I'm interested in the 3612QM for the X230 as well. I'm looking for a quad core in a small form factor. Has there been any X230 announcements or does Lenovo only announce their new notebooks right before you can order them?

 

The development of the 35W quad is the most interesting aspect of the IB for me. I suspect we will see the QM processor in the 12.1" Elitebook this cycle but not in the X230 (just a guess with no evidence to back it up). I was hoping to see it in the X1 successor but most Lenovo fans tell me I'm crazy.

Are the COUs in the X2x0 series soldered into BGA mounts like the Elitebook tablets or are they on PGA sockets?

 

Soldered, BGA

 

Thanks for letting me know about the EliteBook. I'll put that on my list.

 

Yes, I'd like 1920x1080 or more in a 12-13" please. I've seen a Vaio Z 1920x1080 screen and the resolution was great.

When I bought my X220 I thought resolution wasn't a concern since I'd just use an external monitor. However next semester I'm living off campus, and I anticipate myself spending more time on campus for the better internet access and such, and I forsee my X220 screen causing a few problems. I guess bringing a VGA cable to hijack a library computer monitor could be an option.

 

That's the exact same issue I'm having... 1280x800 on 12" is great and all, but I'm starting to need more and more resolution on the go. I would kill for a 1080p 12" display.

 

To be honest 1600x900 would probably work too (preferably more vertical pixels...). The most you can ask out of a single screen is to be able to see 2 windows/documents at a time, and 1366x768 just doesn't really cut it since you can barely see a fraction of a page if you try to use half the screen, text becomes blurred because you have to zoom out.

I've had good experiences with 1600x1200 screens, which let you more or less see 2 full pages of stuff side by side, but having to scroll a little more isn't too bad. Let's hope they figure this out and start making a Vaio Z like screen offering. I'd pay a lot of good money for that, and I'd probably end up keeping it forever lol. If my X220 had more pixels I would probably not buy a new laptop for like 5 years, but I'm itching to replace it, even though I can't really afford to :/

 

Most internet browsers, which is where I want more real estate, allow you to make text smaller. That has the same effect as having a higher resolution screen. The same is true of office documents and pdfs.

I like the HD screen on X220. The 125 pixel density is about right for any screen, be it 12." HD, 14" SXGA+ or 15.4" WSXGA+. That's just the cost of getting a smaller notebook. I find the stick so easy to scroll on it mitigates the loss in resolution for me.

As for a 12" 1080 screen, I'd say careful what you wish for. Seeing one for a few minutes is not the same as using it for hours on end.

 

Personally, 1600x900 on a 12.5" screen is overkill. If I need to competently compare two documents on one screen, I have to use at least a 17" screen or larger. I could possibly do the comparison on a 15" screen, but I think it starts to get more difficult at that point. I love the x220 screen and haven't had any issues with it. The only time screen real estate becomes an issue is when I want to edit some photos. However, I didn't pretend to think that editing photos on 12.5" screen would be ideal. Also, it gives me an excuse to buy a W530, which I'm sure my wife will be happy about. All part of the master plan.

 

That's only true if the text size is quite a bit larger than the pixel size. Otherwise the difference is quite big. This is true in particular when reading PDF documents. For example, when scaled to a smaller text size, the difference between iPad2 ("low" resolution) and retina display on iPhone is really night and day.

I am not sure what are you implying with "I'd be careful...". Of what? Dealing with Windows' poor implementation of large DPI settings? There is definitely room for improvement there. Other than that, I don't see what is the downside for non-gaming use.

 

1600x900 in 12.5" is about the same DPI as 1920x1200 in 15.4", which a number of people are fine with.

 

Curious article on Tom's Hardware: Dell Says it Can't Build Enough XPS 13 Ultrabooks

So much for X220 being the best ultra-portable, it's thin enough, corporate customers are conservative, crappy screen resolution is OK for corporates, we took a quarter to repaint the Enter key and that's the way we always do it, and other Lenovo's nonsense.

Unless Lenovo gets the message real soon, ThinkPads will have Blackberry written all over them. Just 5 years ago RIM sounded exactly like Lenovo today and then poof and their corporate customers are all infested with iPhones.

Those who never learn from history are doomed to repeat it. 2 years from now, I can see the image of Nick Farrells running around their offices, screaming how no one could have possibly seen this coming.

 

And even higher DPI (1080p @ 12.5") is just fine if you have decent eyesight... move two inches closer and you're back to the same perceived DPI you had before

 

Your point being? Unfortunately, ultrabooks are not something that everyone quite craves. I do like notebooks that have 2.5-inch hard drive bays, mSATA slots, removable batteries, ability to add 16GB of RAM, etc. Ultrabooks are rather limiting in that regard.

 

Interesting. But I cannot fathom why in the world would one replace a business class laptop with a consumer class and moreover especially Dell XPS (much inferior build quality, reliability, plenty of overheating problems, etc.). If the main selling point is the thickness, there will be a Thinkpad T430u.

 

Probably because everyone is tired of dragging around thick Latitudes over the past few years. The new Latitudes are thinner and lighter but the XPS 13 Ultrabook is much sexier.

I would not be surprised to see a thin Latitude Ultrabook with Ivy Bridge inside this year.

 

Quite possible:

And a Dell guy mentioned June-ish timeframe.

 

Lenovo is releasing at least 1 Thinkpad ultrabook, and they can also put some more business-ish features on their consumer ultrabooks. It's not like they don't care about ultrabooks, they just aren't radically changing of their best selling lines.

I don't think ultrabooks are going to replace ultraportables in the business world. Lenovo/IBM, Dell, and HP all used to have ULV CPU's in their 12 inch business ultraportables. They don't anymore. It shows that corporate users of 12 inch business ultraportables either need more power than ULV CPU's can provide, or IT wants more future proofing than ULV CPU's can provide.

Also, I doubt the Latitudes will be thinner this time around. There will probably be a Latitude ultrabook, but Latitude design refreshes are about every 2 years and they just had one.

 

Lenovo is radically changing their best selling lines. I consider the chiclet keyboard a radical change.

The reason Ultraportables didn't make it is because they were priced in the stratosphere.

 

I can see why a lot of people like ultrabooks, and frankly, I see the future in ultrabooks rather than x220-like portables. However, I personally prefer my x220 over any current ultrabook on the market. The entire package of speed, battery life, IPS screen, keyboard and portability is just better for what I use it for.

 

A radical change that took three generations to get to the mainline Thinkpads. Change is good, blind change isn't.

Business ultraportables sold. ULV CPU only business ultraportables (X201s) didn't and now largely don't exist anymore. In business ultraportables that support both SV and ULV CPU's (such as the X220 now that the "s" variant is gone), the SV variants are vastly more popular than ULV variants. The conclusion I can draw from this is that when given the choice between similar laptops that have ULV or SV, most business buyers would take SV.

With this information, I think that these prosumer "business" ultrabooks aren't replacing X220's, but rather MacBook Airs.

 

I wouldnt bet on that, if ultrabooks are going to be all the rage with IB refresh, then sticking to "weve done it like this for years and we will continue so" tradition/attitude might bring lost sales to them, to any company with such attitude if competition wont sleep.

 

Dell's business offer looks pretty crappy at the moment. I meant I don't see the point in getting a Dell XPS when there's a quite nice selection of Thinkpads available. In terms of the appearance, pretty much ANY Dell laptop (except Alienware and Precision) looks like a cheap garbage these days. XPS still seems like a poor choice for a business laptop. (Actually, it seems like a poor choice for ANY purpose laptop, especially business purpose.)

 

Ha HA HA!!!! Tell us what you really think.

I haven't even held a Dell in years. But I've seen them at conferences.

 

Just wanted to check if I am right in thinking the 17" thinkpad line has been dead since the W701?

 

Yes W701 was the last 17" ThinkPad, the roadmap for 17" mobile workstation ThinkPad was gone since last generation.

 

With modern power management on CPUs, the use of ULV simply indicates that they neutered the CPU because they weren't able to fit appropriate cooling. A "full voltage" CPU will idle at the same level.

While 0.5" or however thick those ultrabooks are is nice, I think a lot of people would be willing to trade "sexiness" for more power. When I bought my X220 I thought I'd be seeing more of them around campus but I've only seen 1 other X series ever, everyone else lugs around 15"+ laptops, and not because they couldn't afford a smaller one. My roommate has an 18" Toshiba Qosmio :O The full power of this processor is quite good for now, runs games without a hiccup with my external GTX460, I imagine it'll serve me well for a long time.

It makes sense that you don't see Vaio Zs around despite having high resolution and portability, because they're just too expensive. However, a 1600x900 screen upgrade for the X220 would give the whole package a sane price and much, much more utility.

 

I hope they give W530 a numerical keypad. There is a lot of real estate not used on W520 that could have been used for the numerical keypad. It really looks ridiculous with that much space left and a small laptop keyboard in the middle.

 

Numpads on laptops are difficult... the off-center placement of the touchpad would annoy many people (including me). Making it optional would require two different palmrests...

 

Pretty big if. It assumes that most corporate buyers will trade in performance, future proofing, serviceability, battery life, and ergonomics in favor of thinness and sexiness. That just doesn't sound like a realistic scenario.

I think that next gen Latitudes will be very much like current Latitudes, but with an ultrabook or two thrown in. Sorta like next gen Thinkpads. We still have the traditional X230, etc, but will also have the T430u ultrabook. Earlier slides also indicate a 13 inch model (X2?).

 

lol... then you have been most fortunate!

 

You know what would be really nice?

A T430s with an AMD Trinity APU. Pity Lenovo is an Intel shop, though.

 

Traditional ThinkPad line has always chosen Intel and they always will. I figure Lenovo uses the Edge line to introduce AMD.

 

Couldn't have said it better. It's what dove me back to ThinkPad's - when the last Latitude "refresh" came out. But if Lenovo changes the keyboard, and Dell has the same cheap look, I don't know where I'll go.....

 

The move towards chiclet keys is probably the result of market research - Lenovo would never just change something for the heck of it - their volume customers probably asked for it. Those of us who like beveled keys are in the minority.

Those Samsung ultrabooks look nice. Especially the Series 9. Yes, chichlet keys - but that is to be expected these days.

That said, I do prefer chiclet keys over beveled keys myself - so long as there is still enough travel.

 

One guy who writes for Lenovo blog in my country said to me that the change to chiclet is because its cheaper. Lenovo as well as other laptop makers just buys the keyboards from some manufaturer and they dont make the classic keyboards anymore(if you look at the market). Its same situation like with the LCD move from 16:10 to 16:9 ratio.

But I think that the thinkpad chiclet is not that bad( I tried the X1) but the change from 7 row to 6 row is worse. I think they should have just changed the classic thinkpad keyboard to chiclet one with all the thinkpad features big ESC and DEL + blue enter + block of F-keys. It would have been really good step which would separate them from the others on the market.
It could have been their competitive advantage as well.

Does anybody have info about the X230 screen? Will they keep the IPS? Thanks

 

I would love to see their market research.

And I hope the market reacts accordingly.

 

We don't have any info about the new Quadro cards that are likely to be in the W530, do we? It doesn't seem like Ivy Bridge is a very big upgrade over Sandy Bridge, so it seems to me like the main reason to hold off on getting the W520 is the fairly outdated Quadro cards. But I haven't seen any announcements about any new mobile Quadros yet, which is a bit concerning.

 

I haven't tried their chiclet, but maybe it's not going to be that bad? Was it erik from this forum who tried both and said that they are both pretty good?

Same here. I like the feel of the feedback rather than just a very shallow keys.

Oh and yes if AMD Trinity holds to their benchmarks, I would LOVE it on Thinkpad T or X series. One can only hope!

 

Given the fact that corporations/government buy in mass through the big 3 of business, I doubt individual end users can have much say in what we want vs what big buyers want. If Lenovo moves to chicklet for the traditional ThinkPad line, I may have to jump back to Dell as ThinkPad has lost alot of features for buying Think brand or resort to buying last generation. I already dislike the new keyboards which played a big part in why I am selling my X220 Tablet.

 

The X1 keyboard is very good (see attached). I just hated the glossy 1366x768 screen.

 

If there is anyone left making quality 7 row keyboard ultraportables, I would definitely jump ship to them. It seems like Lenovo was the last one left though, and now they have given in.

We don't have any numbers of course, but here's a quote from a while back dealing with the X1 keyboard
ThinkPad X1: Stradivarius Keyboard - Design - Lenovo Blogs

-World wide study on end users. Though possibly gives the Japanese Thinkpad fanboys disproportionately large consideration.
-Mainly Thinkpad fans (surprising considering the result of the study)
-So most people prefer the X1 keyboard over the T420s keyboard
-Not many people use all the keys on their keyboard
-Thinkpad designers like 7 row keyboards, but have to accept the sad reality

Quote makes it seem like the study focused on end users. Big buyers probably should listen to the people they are buying for as well.

As for jumping ship to Dell or HP. I don't really see a reason to. Having less reason to stick with Thinkpad doesn't mean more reason to switch to EliteBook or Latitude. They also have chiclet 6 row keyboards, and typing feel and trackpoint performance isn't as good.

There is nowhere you can go. Lenovo was the last major manufacturer left pumping out notebooks with 7 row keyboards and now they don't anymore.

It seems like they are keeping IPS. Premium HD is an option and that is what IPS is called in the X220 generation.