ThinkPad T431s / X230s Leaked

Y'know, if you're really hung up over LEDs: you've been a few years late, Scroll Lock and Num Lock have departed for parts unknown.

Hard drive activity LEDs aren't really necessary in the day and age of SSDs. What, do you want a RAM activity light, too?

Those network LEDs were rather useless, too. They were lit at a fixed frequency, not when actual Tx/Rx was occurring. Can you imagine steady blinking on an HDD LED? You'd think that's pointless, and you'd be right.

I'm not going to miss the 9-cell, I'm not much of a big butt fetishist.

Those people proclaiming over and over again how they're going to leave the brand, it reminds one of victims of domestic violence. Just leave your abusive laptops already! Mere talking gets very old very quickly. Put your money where your mouth is. Lenovo doesn't and shouldn't care about forum dwellers that are all talk. Peddling boutique laptops for self-proclaimed "loyalists" is simply not profitable.

I just hope the firmware will return to including an EFI shell again. I can dream. We still have the service manuals to empower us to repair our systems ourselves. That's an advantage that's not found elsewhere very often.

 

Oh yeah the LED... I believe they began their holocaust with the x220.

The HDD and network LED, regardless of their "accuracy", are always useful to quickly detect a hardware problem.
What I miss from my T60 is the "AC power" LED, also useful to make sure at a glance that the AC supply is working properly (or if not, and after having tested it, that it's definitely an issue from your computer).
Oh and the front side battery status LED too. Cheap xxxxxxxx. Now, if I don't have access to the Windows taskbar, I have to close the lid to check whether the battery is charging.

While I'm at it, there's no LED on my Ultrabase's Ultrabay either. If I put an SSD inside and it's not working, I have no way to quickly determine if the drive is faulty or if that issue comes from the Ultrabay itself.

See people, this illustrates how Thinkpad design went from a techy, prosumer-oriented mindset to the now babby, consumer-oriented mindset.
Each new iteration is now a joke of a laptop.
You want to sell Playschool notebooks? Great! By all means do it! Just leave the Thinkpads alone and mess with your own Lenovo-branded toys.

 

The LEDs are maybe nice, but they aren´t really necessary at all - the only ones I find useful are the HDD LEDs and the connection LEDs. I wound´t jumb ship just because of that.

To the 9-cell battery: They are nice, but the T4xxs series had never the ability to use one, so this is not a big change.

 

More on the X230s

 

Yay! We get 9mm disk support back.

I would argue they are even more necessary. I heard when my HDD was doing crap, I don't hear my SSD.

It shows that the wifi card is on at least. It's a useful indicator if you turn off your wifi card for stuff like airplanes and forget that you did.

I want them back. Also, the AC power connected indicator. And the battery and sleep LED's should be on both sides, not just the back.

 

Well, the battery LED on the back is gone too. The only LED on the back is the sleep LED, which is now build in into the ThinkPad logo, like here: Lenovo ThinkPad SL LED Light - YouTube

The i just "glows" on the outside. Inside, the standby LED is build into the power-button.

 

You don't hear your memory do crap. You don't hear it when one of your cores is running at 100% (well… except for the fan after a minute or so). You don't get a lot of info at all and that's for a reason: if you're not debugging your system, it's just a distraction.

I already proposed a RAM activity light. Now add an activity light for each CPU core. Add PCI bus activity lights. Add a card reader activity light. Add microphone activity lights. Forget it, we actually need a full-on VU meter! And why is there no hardware volume indicator, wouldn't that be useful? We're also going to need a display activity light if someday it becomes not so blatantly obvious that it's on&black as opposed to off. Add USB activity lights. Actually, add a light on each port and the power jack too! Add a keyboard activity light so you can know whether your system is hung or whether your keyboard connector has magically come loose. Your touchpad and trackpoint could light up in use. Oh, WWAN definitely needs a light. I mean, all the smartphones have mobile network activity lights, all of them! …not. My phone doesn't even have a WiFi indicator. It has one LED that indicates startup, shutdown and charging. I don't know why it displays charging, the display tells me that, too. Oh, the phone might be off? Well, we still have that light on ThinkPads. It's even usable when it's on. There's even a sleep indicator!

Now you want *two* LEDs for each purpose? I give up. Who could make this up?

I'd prefer my laptop not to resemble a funfair, or a Christmas tree. If your software is reliable, those lights are more distracting than they're worth. If your software is not reliable, don't blame your hardware. Even if you disagree, you'll have to agree that what's useful and what isn't is largely a matter of personal preference. Economies of scale dictate a one-size-fits-all approach. Lenovo needs to compete on price, too. A "perfect laptop for everyone" would cost $20,000 a piece, it would have to be custom for everyone.

I'm not even denying there's a market for that. It's just way, way smaller than the market Lenovo is currently in.

9 mm drive support is nice, though. More SSD options.

 

So it's a dream to exchange bateries like you can do on your mobile phone? Mobile phones are smallers than this ultrabooks and you can still change the batery.


#Summilux
+10000000


#evujumenuk
You clearly have no idea what you talking about. Memory led? umm, maybe not but an Internet+LAN led? The only thing I'm agree with you is about service manuals, that is something that other manufactures should learn from Lenovo.

And about the Christmas tree, it's obvious that no one want that, but you should really consider why is Lenovo the only brand that are removing things from their laptops.

 

Blame IBM.

 

Do we know the size of the battery? Anything under 50whr is not Scottish and therefore CRAP!

 

Since this isn´t noted (in both manuals), no. But I would estimate that the X230s has a ~45Wh battery and the T431s a ~52Wh battery, because the X230s is a bit smaller and a bit thinner.

 

That would be very disappointing. Other than the 13.3 macbook air, just about everything in the 40-50whr range is getting about 4-5 hours. That's with light usage too.

 

Well my X220 6c is down to 45Wh but it still lasts 6h. A new 6c would last 8h.

Of course, you will only reach these numbers with Windows 8.

Disappointing nevertheless, the old Xxxs series had an optional 9c which helped them reach impeccable run times, better than any Mac.

Modern Ivy-Bridge ULV CPU's have no problems reaching over 6h with 40-50Wh,

 

Wouldn't disregard the X2** series as a low battery notebook specially not from lenovo which takes great care to squeezing good battery life out of their notebooks.
Hopefully they will do something to that regard but we won't know until we see it.

 

Most reviewers benched the x220 and x230 around 7 hours with the 6 cell (63whr). Most reviewers also benched the 1x Carbon around 5.5 hours (45whr). This is with light usage. The math adds up to averaging between 8-9 watts during such usage. This is consistent with virtually all Sandy/Ivy bridge battery benchmarks.

Any reason to believe that the x230 will not average 8-9 watts during light usage?

Some but not all sources for battery tests:

http://www.anandtech.com/

http://www.engadget.com/

http://www.theverge.com/

http://arstechnica.com/

 

I am referring to having additional battery options. It's possible they may allow for a larger battery or a slice battery.

 

The problem is not the capacity, new bateries are nice but after a year of intense use ANY battery on the marked will have half the original capacity.

If you use this machines for work, you have to be sure you have a plug close to you because you will need it, so this close doors to people that use machines in the outside.

With this laptops you can't remove and change battery, so you will have to send the laptop to lenovo and wait until they replace new battery and "inspect" carefully your system, and of course you can't remove the hdd as that will break the warranty.

Some one should open post with a list of this machines as this "nice" feature it's not well announced on lenovo site.

 

When did this new "can't remove the hard drive" policy take effect? Heard nothing of it...care to share your source(s)?

 

I believe Lenovo reserves the right to consider the warranty void, but rarely does this.

 

I think that would be the final straw for a lot of technical folks I know. I know in the ranks of my company we would be forced to move to another supplier as the primary.

 

It depends on the machine. The SSD on the X1 Carbon is not a Customer Replaceable Unit (CRU). On the T430s it is.

If Lenovo removes all of the CRU's from the bread and butter machines like the T, W and some of the X Series, then they are making another grave mistake.

 

I don´t think so.

It don´t look like the HDD is not an CRU in these new models. In these User-Guides, normally only the removal of CRUs is shown. In the T431s manual, they show the removal of the HDD, the RAM, the Sim-Card, the Trackpoint-Cap, the M.2 mPCI SSD / WWAN card, the BIOS-battery, and, last but not least, the keyboard. So I would expect that all of these parts are CRUs. Not shown is the removal of the battery (or, another example, the fan), which should mean it isn´t a CR, although it is removable.

 

Not that I know of, and I've had hundreds of machines serviced over the past couple of years, both by depot and on-site personnel.

Furthermore, there are "special bid" warranties that allow one to request a replacement hard drive without surrendering the defective one. Government agencies of *all* kinds love these dearly, as do banks and utility companies.

I wasn't aware of the SSD in X1C not being a CRU, but I have absolutely zero interest in any so-called-ThinkPad that utilizes a 6-row keyboard to begin with...

 

I have a T60 with 9c and after 600 cycles (5 years) it still has 66Wh of the original 87Wh. I'd say this is pretty good considering it's a Lithium Ion and Lenovo uses Lithium Polymer batteries in their integrated models which last 3 times as long as Lithium Ion.

 

Well if that's true forget what I said.

Did not know that, but now I understand why they are FRU. Maybe this batteries last longer than Li-ion but if they have to be soldered or not easy to exhange them, I don't like much the idea.

Lithium polymer battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I bet your battery has Panasonic Cells. Those that were lucky, received the Panasonic cells in their batt. and their life span amazes me. My friends 4 year old T500 still has the original battery. He has around 65Wh like you. I tried to steal his battery but he noticed. lol.

I recently sold it and bought an X230 which of course uses the Sanyo cells. I'm not going to expect it to last nearly as long as yours. I give it 2 years MAX.

 

Yes you are right, those are Panasonic cells in the T60 battery, my X220 has Sanyo cells too and it is down to 45Wh from 64Wh after 250 cycles, so Panasonic cells seem to last approximately 3 times as long, which is amazing!

In future, I'll try to get batteries with Panasonic cells. My X220 9c is from LGC, it only has 30 cylces so far and has lost 2Wh, so it's still too early to compare it to anything.

Imagine Lithium Polymer batteries from Panasonic.

 

Panasonic bought Sanyo, so either Panasonic batteries will drop in quality, or we'll see a lot more of them.

 

Please indulge me. Show everyone here your massive cluefulness and tell us exactly how every other laptop manufacturer on the face of the Earth is supposed to not have elected to remove Blinkenlights from their systems, including a certain fruity brand, HP, Panasonic et al.

Systems are not built in a vacuum. The ThinkPad 770 was shipped with Windows 95. I can see very well how one would want to have diagnostic bling for pretty much everything if the software is Windows 95!

The operating system landscape is very different now. I'm not saying that something like Windows 7 "won't ever crash", but any diagnostic singing and dancing is worth comparatively less. Its worth is diminished by exactly the same ratio that, for example, Windows 7 is more stable than Windows 95. Which is pretty freaking much.

If I were a Lenovo product manager, seeing people getting hung up over lights, I'd be all "that's all they're complaining about? Well, by golly, we're good to go"

For any serious criticism leveled at current ThinkPads, I think the community should restrict themselves to less facetious details.

For example, the firmware takes ages to load.

https://plus.google.com/108087225644395745666/posts/LyPQgKdntgA

A cold boot takes about 8.5 seconds. Only little more than two seconds is due to the operating system. The rest is taken up by BIOS/UEFI. Coreboot would take about 0.5 seconds. The system would boot in about 3 seconds. That would take out the appeal of suspending for many people (except as a snapshot of your working state, of course).

Decreasing boot times has no disadvantages. There are lots of disadvantages with "m0ar LEDs!!1one".

 

Lenovo has always been fond of how fast their laptops boot. If you think back they used to have Rapid Boot and Lenovo enhanced experience which granted a 20s boot under Win 7 with a hard drive.

I'm sure there is a good reason why the BIOS takes its own sweet time.

Mind you, my X220 only shows the BIOS screen for a mere 3 seconds. (just did the test)

With Hibernate enabled under Win 8 and an SSD, the OS loads within the blink of an eye, so less than 1s.

Somewhere in the process, you still loose one or two seconds.

So in the end, a 5 second boot is no longer a dream and possible right now.

 

You guys are right, Lenovo is going after Apple with their Thinkpad line, this explains the direction the design has taken.
Here is a quote:
"Lenovo Business Group will make things for cost-conscious consumers, while the new Think Business Group will chase the premium segment. Mr Yang wants the Think brand to compete with Apple; he plans to open fancy showrooms like Apple’s."
Taken from here:
Chinese industry: From guard shack to global giant | The Economist

 

Nice article.

 

That's one of the most depressing things I've read.

(posted from my Lenovo W520 ... the last of the breed of real ThinkPad keyboards)

 

Showrooms? No more purchases based on fancy pictures? No more nasty surprises when receiving your ThinkPad at home?

 

You forgot Retina displays.

 

Apple? Eww. That is so wrong.

 

Hmmm...doesn't surprise me. For whatever reason the ThinkPads with the no-trackpoint buttons just do not do anything for me. Kind of like "I could have had a V8" deal

 

I'm still waiting for that X340 they promised us. Supposedly it's gonna be just like the X301, just better. I'm skeptical, it's not even confirmed yet whether or not they are actually working on it.

But with the recent changes it seems pretty much impossible for such a ThinkPad to exist. I mean how? 16:10 is long gone, the old Keyboard is not coming back anytime soon and I don't think Lenovo is willing to put out another 3000$ model. (which is the price the X340 must sell at if it has everything the X301 has)

 

​

It comes with the territory.

 

Off topic.
If your hardware doesn’t work and you don’t know which component failed, the OS has nothing to do with it.

Protip: competitiveness is a matter of details, and there are no facetious details.

Cutting costs on hardware and transfering them onto marketing expenses. Yup.
In theory this basic strategy can be quite efficient… however applying that to the business oriented, not so sexy Thinkpads is just plain retarded.
We all know that the Think ship has been sinking for several years now, let's just see how deep it will sink. We've just witnessed it reaching a lower stage.

 

It is quite unfair to say this, as Mr. Yang also said that they will stopp cutting costs: China's Lenovo Aims Higher in U.S. - WSJ.com

Also, I can´t see whats bad about more show rooms, many companies have them. In China, Lenovo has many show rooms, which are very important for their strategy there. Also, it is an advantage to have this showrooms, as you can touch the devices before the buy.

 

the article in the economists indicates otherwise: the shipping of tp has doubled and the tp line enjoys a healthy margin.

 

Well, yeah...because low-end machines like X13* and Edge series are also under the ThinkPad umbrella, and they are the ones that undoubtedly sell well.

Talk about applying lipstick on a pig...

 

Then let's see if they start supplying spare caps for the trackp- oh wait, no, they're phasing them out anyways, that'd be a waste.

That’s what I’m saying, Thinkpads are steadily sinking.
Fashionable chiclets designs + cost cutting + TP brand given to every other laptop = death of TP & better profits.

Now, is that a bad thing ? Not necessarily. It’s probably good for the company's cashflow. It’s awful for us, especially since the products used to be quite unique: the alternatives aren’t bright. But the most difficult to put up with, may be the corporate BS they’re serving us. In that sense, they're quite a typical company.

 

I guess after all the experiences with Lenovo over the past seven years, we should take his word at face value, right?

What works in China is not necessarily applicable in the U.S.

To maintain a *proper* showroom in a location that matters (NYC, LA, DC) you're looking at absolutely unsustainable costs...then again, they'll save a ton of money once the TrackPoint is finally executed...

 

I fully expect the Yang inspired next generation X1 to be a black ninja blade style ultrabook (aluminum) with a 15" 1080p PLS mate screen, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, black glass trackpad, backlit precision keyboard with red trackpoint. It will look like a modern ThinkPad and lure the masses into the Lenovo plan for world domination.

And while we are at it, can we spin up a Chinese hacker conspiracy thread? We all know silicon based backdoors have to be coming.

 

This has nothing to do with cost cutting on the product itself, this is an unnecessary extra. You can simply buy one pack if you want them. Lenovo can over the hole Notebooks some $ / € cheaper without them.

Well, but this would only explain the doubled shipments, but these machines tend to have very low margins. THe margins come from the T/W/X/L.

Also, shipment maybe doubled because of Asia, where Lenovo sell many ThinkPads to companies.

Since he is the CEO: Yes.

Also, it seems you take all negative things about Lenovo for right, so, why not some positive?

It works for many other companys, why not Lenovo?

They will never remove the TrackPoint, the new TrackPoint buttons guarantee that. The TrackPoint is far to important for the whole brand and marketing. It is even in the logo!

 

Last time I checked, it became the indicator for whether or not the laptop was on I don't think it's crazy to assume the trackpoint will disappear in the future when the rest of the dedicated keys are slowly disappearing.

 

It is. The buttons were integrated in order to have a bigger TouchPad surface, not to cut cost. What would they win if they remove TrackPoint? THey are not stupid, the removal of the TrackPoint would cause a very negative reaction in the press and in the big companys. Also, there are many Lenovo employees who use the TrackPoint.

The integrated TrackPoint buttons ensure that the Trackpoint won´t disappear, as they have now removed the last disadvantage for non-TrackPoint users: A crippled and small TouchPad. lead_org wrote an good article about the new UltraNav arrangement: ThinkPad Buttonless Trackpoint

 

I think lead_org is a great poster, but I stopped reading that article after he mentioned he hadn't used it yet. If the buttonless design ends up being as hilariously awkward to use as it looks, there won't be much point in even having the trackpoint versus using the touchpad to do all the wonderful gestures Lenovo will implement to compete with Apple.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm just blindly hating at this point, but the removal of those 3 buttons might have been the last straw for me. The keyboard layout and design can arguably be the same or better, but there's no way a flat surface with dots will be anything but worse in terms of usage unless they've changed how the clicking mechanism works.