ThinkPad X1

Lesser models to choose from=bigger possibility that consumer will find something from other laptop company's line up, even if every one would have only few models of laptops and not dozens like now, the risk to lose customer gets higher unless you produce premium product at prices competition cant match.
I believe for average consumer only difference is in looks, given that all laptops have the same guts less or more, average person wont care if its Intel or AMD as long as it works.

 

indeed consumers/companies care about price, decreasing cost you increase the profit margin, even with lower price points than what we have now

this is micro 101

 

but economics theory doesn't really cater to the idea of quality. You can decrease cost, but past a certain point you have to cut corners, and what you left is mass produced goods that break apart easily.

 

yes it does, its just a matter of balance. Its always about the margin

 

MAXIMIZE ALL THE PROFITS

 

So how do you balance it? Do you have some economic theory we can use to adjust the pricing mix that caters to profit and product quality?

 

Product quality is sometimes a part of a company's brand. Apple sets its price and the world beats a path to its door. In part, the public it paying for higher quality. In cars, BMW does the same.

 

Any micro theory can contemplate that. Its not anything out of the ordinary.

A good graph would be the variable cost one. Basically you try to reduce the cost in what you can if you want to achieve a good pricing. Its simply reducing by:

getting high volumes of standard parts, something like the kindle screens, they are the same part for the 2 entry level models.

reducing the labour costs (everyones move to china)

get more efficient factories (like the recent developments in chinese factories basically everyone is just so smart and the chinese such a poor people, yeah right)

reducing R&D costs by lowering the product line ups (apple, HP, dell...)

to make spin offs of something that you produce in house, since this is actually something that could either expand or to diversify its portfolio (global foundries)

better control of the logistics of the factories, parts and shipments (just like when apple bought basically a great part of air shipments)

Creational centers that are integrated, sharing design choices (microsoft, apple, nike...)

There are thousands more ideas that the business world have developed, each year those strategies keep getting better or replaced, and sincerely I only dealt with variable costs, and only one fixed cost there are many more known strategies for reducing costs while maintaining quality.

its really not rocket science, I can more than safely bet that you have reached some or all of those conclusions

 

Blog post by a professional writer considering an x1 purchase- it may prove useful for others considering the machine- hth someone

The Ultimate Writer’s Notebook Computer – Lenovo’s ThinkPad X1 | Mike Fook Books - Ebooks | Fiction Thrillers | WTF

 

Mr. MM your theory sounds good but in actuality these are stuffs people have already considered ages ago.

1. Labour costs are already very low, anything lower people will starve. Unless you are arguing that free labour should be used?
2. Factories are not operated by Lenovo, they are operated by ODM (i.e. Compal and Wistron, etc), basically by the best in the business whom also manufactures HP, Dell, Apple, etc.
3. R&D cost, hum i don't think that is the major operating expense of computer manufacturer nowadays.
4. What does Lenovo need to spin off, their CEO, CTO, CFO?
5. Right, maybe just need Tim Cook.
6. Hum, right.... and Microsoft has many design centers. Apple well i guess they just need another Steve...

It is not rocket science, but i don't think you are the only one whom have contemplated this. Armchair general can argue a lot about theories but when it comes to the crunch they are not so good.

Parts supplier have been thinking about lowering cost too, and Thailand is prime example of what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket. If one manufacturer of parts supply all the parts, they could potentially leverage themselves against you in the long run, or if they cut your supply then you are stuck.

Many ODM have considered manufacturing facility in Vietnam and India where labours are relatively cheaper then China, but there are the problems of:

1. Logistic facility (rail, road and port), they cost a lot to implement and take long time to fully build up.
2. Location of other parts manufacturer, most parts manufacturer are very close to the ODM. Also, for some high tech parts, there are patents involved and as such lot of these are manufactured in S. Korea and Japan where the company can keep a tab on their secret.
3. Language barrier of the ODM managers and the local.
4. Repatriation of the earned income.
5. Taxation and financial support by government
6. Political risk
and of course
7. Investment in the current manufacturing facilities, and most manufacturing facilities cost hundreds of million dollars to build.
8. Time... by the time everything is up and running in the new country it will be game over for that ODM.

--------------------------------

Anyway the ThinkPad X1 is a good laptop, but it could be better with a better screen and slightly revised keyboard.

 

Lead_Org, I know that its been considered, see the names in parenthesis. never said that it was a fool proof strategy nor a one you can apply to all. The last post was that any micro theory can deal with the trouble of quality and price, which you didnt seen to understand

another thing I said design centers that are integrated, not to accumulate one thing in one place (although that would reduce the fixed costs of maintaining several buildings), physical space is meaningless when you put that the most prominent cost of that center is the salary

and btw it was steve jobs who did that in the late 90's not Cook.

One thing you havent considered putting in your response is tax barrier, for example foxconn has built a factory here in brazil, to start producing iphones and ipads. Why? because the current price of a iphone in a subsidized plan is about R$1300 which roughly equals to U$722.

 

Sorry to steer this conversation back on-topic , but it looks like thunderbolt might be avaliable on next generation ultrabooks (X2?) permitting an external graphics solution. http://www.fudzilla.com/notebooks/item/24997-intel-working-on-thunderbolt-dock-for-ultrabooks It also looks like Ivybridge will produce 20% more power and 60% better integrated graphics. If Lenovo can adapt the X1 to ultrabook specifications without overly compromising the keyboard (like Asus seems to have done with the UX31) and adding an HD+ display, the X2 looks like a strong contender to replace my Acer next year.

 

and to steer it even more on this path

Intel Working on Standardized Thunderbolt Docking System for PCs - Mac Rumors

there are some schematics, and it appears to be a great way to use thunderbolt

 

@Mr MM... does Brazil have a relatively sophisticated manufacturing industry? yes it does. Is it close to the other latin american countries whom are also growing exponentially? Yes... Does it have a large shipping facility yes, this is how Vale exports all those Iron ore to China. Also Brazil has a very close trading relationship with China and will probably use RMB for trade, which means it is in a prime position to act as site for production. Also, Brazil ports are close to US east cost by ship, these are all extremely important factors. Why doesn't Foxconn choose Peru or Chile for their manufacturing base? The salary is even cheaper then Brazil.

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Tim Cook --- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/24/technology/24cook.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

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Bronksy, i wish the Thunderbolt comes to X2 this will allow external GPU and other expansion option.

 

Not necessarily depends on the industry

Also not necessarily, you cant even count some countries that are growing the way you think they are, like: argentina, peru, colombia... Most latin american countries have a much smaller consumer market them we have here (counting population and wealth distribution), actually our industries and some other multinationals are changing to cheaper producing countries (like renault increasing their investments on argentina, and fiat installing a factory in mexico that will supply both north america and south america as well, there isnt a central america in economic terms), as I said, one of the reasons to establish a factory here was due to tax purposes.

Another thing that you are misunderstanding is that the relative high growth of some countries in latin america (I hate that term), is based on the impoverishment that they have suffered in the 98 economic crisis (some even latter and anothers even earlier), the greatest example of it all is argentina, which is a much poorer country regarding public services, education, salaries, wealth, than it was in the golden days of peronism.

Currently our ports and road infrastructure are in shambles, there are some rough investments regarding train lines, however its more of a localized investment led by the demand of commodities (those are concentrated in the northeastern part of the country), there is a dream railway that is being built way before I was born to connect the south to the north of the country however this is one of those things that we call ''white elephants'' simply because they are connecting nothing to more nothingness (although in this case it would indeed connect something to something), and because they are never finished, like the transamazonica, that should have been an important road (since my country is stupid enough to believe that roads are the best way to move merchandise ) to connect to us the northernmost land neighbors that we have, however it isnt really complete, being still as of today with non asphalted pieces (its being built since 69), although I have to agree that its quite large measuring almost 5 thousand km

The roads leading to larger economic centers (Southeast) from production centers (North, Northeast, and Southeast) are terrible, and the ones that we have on the Southeast coast are overflowing of vehicles, and need a rough investment to expand, not to mention the distribution problems regarding the South part of the country.

the infrastructure in Brazil is also known here as Brazil's cost, its pretty high and pretty heavy.

No we wont, and we have the same relationship that all countries have, thinking they are really smart moving their production centers to the poor poor chinese people, injecting tons of money in that country. Not to mention that last week the chinese have turned down several ships from Vale filled with ore. And that we have raised last month the import taxes on vehicles, mainly affecting the flood of the poorly built and with even poorer standards chinese cars, due to this the dream of owning the 2011 camaro model is no longer available to me , I think Im going to settle for the lancer gt too bad

it doesnt matter, apple uses AIR mail to deliver their goods, and our airports are no good at all, we are already late for the world cup in terms of volume of investments and what has been built in terms of infrastructure. And if they do ship by water, they are going to be waiting for customs clearance for about 2 weeks or even more, our ports are as well poorly equipped, overflowing of merchandise to be shipped

You have to see the usual 300km of waiting lines for the trucks to deliver commodities (in this case grains) from the Center West, they are a sight to behold.

The train lines here are used for ore and owned by the ore companies, actually the ones that are still functioning.

Indeed those are

They should have chosen those countries, but as far as Im aware regarding the Mercosul importing taxes I dont think that electronics are in it, its been a while since I saw those (4 years ago, when I graduated in International Relations and I dont have a good memory at all), and regarding production costs they would still be cheaper in peru and chile.


Do people bet on Brazil for the potential and current economic growth? Yes

Do I think the same? Yes

Is it a reality that we are diminishing poverty at a great rate? Yes

Does it mean that more people will be able to afford better quality products? Yes

Is our infrastructure holding us back? HELL YES!

I was wrong sorry.

I think we have led this convo too much in the area of OT, I think its wise to finish it here or at your reply, do you agree?

 

Actually, I would not worry too much about being OT in this thread. There is not a lot of interest in the X1 ATM and some of us that are following this thread are simply waiting for the redesigned ultrabook X2 to be revealed (at CES hopefully). Might as well discuss something productive.

 

Actually it is a bit OT and to be honest I subscribed to this thread so I will know when there is any new X2 news. I didn't subscribe to look at an economics discussion, (which I get enough due to it is one of my majors).

So I'd prefer if I didn't get notifications about this guys. Don't mean anything bad by it but it will probably get this thread locked.

 

lead org - You mentioned that you should be able to get 4 hours out of the X1 battery if you update the firmware. I think I've done this but typically don't get more than 2.5-3 hours. Any advice on how to check whether I have the latest firmware?

In general, I've had the X1 for maybe 3 months and I love it. It's a fantastic machine to use. Highlights include the way it handles heat, the keyboard, the feel of it, the rapid charge.

I do a lot of meetings and I get a lot of very complimentary comments on the machine - never had comments about any other laptop I've had. Last couple were pretty cheap but quite high spec (Dell and Toshiba). Both suffered from overheating issues after a month or so and eventually got to the stage where any activity would cause them to shut down.

One thing I've not seen overly emphasised is the solidity of the laptop. I had it on a table in a room with a hard wooden floor. I tripped over the lead and slammed the machine into the floor from 1m height, screen open. Not a scratch - never stopped working - no blemish whatsoever.

 

@JLjl, i can get 4 hours of battery life if i do word processing and word processing on Battery Saver mode. If you do anything more CPU intensive then 2.30 hrs to 3.30 hrs is the norm.

 

Thanks lead_org. Any idea on how I can check if the battery firmware is up to date?

 

ThinkPad X1 Battery Firmware update Lead_org's Blog

Run the firmware update, if it is up to date then it would tell you so.

 

In case this is of interest to anyone:
Macbook Air running Lion vs. Lenovo Thinkpad X1 running Windows 8 Developer Preview

 

Finally pulled the trigger on an X1- does it remind anyone else of those cellphones designed for "senior citizens"? Or Perhaps a child's calculator? (Buttons clearly marked with large font/basic icons, low res, super clean utiliarian design) Not a criticism, just an observation.

question- what cases/sleeves/bags are you all using? The zeroshock III sleeve caught my eye- though not sure which size to go for (13in or 14in)

 

i don't use any sleeve casing for the ThinkPad, just a regular laptop carry bag.

 

Hi everybody. I want to give my grain of salt about the X1; it's like a mini review but from a point of view of a marketing/advertising area worker.

First, these are the specs of my X1>

i5-2520M @2.5Ghz
RAM: 4gb DDR3
Intel 160 gb SSD

I bought it on discount a few weeks ago, and it cost me around $1000.
I was about to buy a T420s but I wanted a lighter and more "flashy" design; because I usually go to meetings with my laptop.

I work on marketing and advertising, so I need a laptop powerful enough to run Photoshop CS5, Illustrator, music, outlook, excel and chrome usually at the same time. I was using a 3 year old T400 that was just fine but it felt short in the Photoshop tasks.

Let me divide my mini review in 2 parts. First performance and then design.

PErformance.

With the SSD this thing is fast, enjoyable fast. And the processor with the turbo boost technology is really working (but you have to be patience with the fan noise, it is highly audible). The bad part is that you only have 100 gb for storage, but I bought a external HDD to storage there what I don't need in the day, and work on the SSD only with what I need for the day/week. Working like this has been a pleasure; it feels even faster than my previous Desktop PC (with an i7 and 1TB @5400 rmpm, 6 gb ram).

Let me describe how I work to understand how well this laptop accomplish my power needs.

I'm always supervising very heavy PSD documents (1 gb aprox), also, having Illustrator open for some quick works, Outlook always open, music on the background (cannot work without music), Excel open to check the charts of works for the day and Chrome open for quick references of work and to chat with some of my suppliers on the facebook chat.
I work like this for 10 hrs per day, and this laptop gives me no problem at all. Open the PSD archives really fast and lets me edit them fast too.

Also, a nice surprise is that speakers are really great, the best I've used on a laptop or cheap Desktop PC speakers.


Design
Gorgeous. When I saw it i thought: this is the thinkpad future. It looks sturdy, feels light. I have a little sensation that this laptop is fragile, but when you hold it all your doubts dissipate. The rubber covering the audio and a USB port is kind of awkward, but I already get over it. When I take this laptop to the meetings, everybody ask me about it, and everybody agrees that looks stunning.

My only concern was the lack of vga port, but lucky for me a friend gave me his Macbook pro Displayport-vaga adapter and everything runs perfectly.

My only and greatest complain is the keyboard. It feels fragile, very fragile; but when you get in your mind that is ready for hard typing you get used to it. Is a lot better than other similar laptops keyboard, but I think my T400 keyboard was a little better. Also, my laptop came with a broken key, and that really pissed me off. I live in Bolivia and bought the laptop in the US, so is almost impossible for me to return it for warranty; because I really need the laptop right now (high work season). I found a way to fix it and you can't see the difference, but it is still broken.

Well, closing my mini review; this laptop made my year and it is really great. I understand that the X220 is better bang for the buck and the T420s is more powerful, but for my area of work is perfect; I love this laptop!

PS: it really charges 80% of the battery in 30 mins!

 

Congrats on your purchase! I also like how the lettering is colored plastic so they wont rub off after heavy use! (At least that's what I think it is because they are back lit keys)

 

i guess the hybrid will start to appear everywhere soon

LVO THINKPAD X1 HYBRID - 12863LU - Tablets - CDW.com

(really trying not to regret getting a regular x1 since we knew this was coming but.........sigh.......what if its great?)

 

And the Outlet two weeks after that.

Just teasing.

 

I am more anxious for the 2012 revision of the X1 more than anything (or is this hybrid supposed to be that revision; I missed a few weeks of content on this thread). So far the X1 has been perfect for my needs and a pleasure to use except for one thing: screen resolution. If the X2 has a higher resolution I might have to upgrade from this X1 I love so much!

Wow great price and nice review!

 

I love my X1, it would be much improved with a better touchpad and a higher resolution LCD.

 

It would be nice to get more information on the planned changes but my Lenovo rep told me that information is now being locked down more than ever. Apparently some leaks around the slates and tablets they launched pissed off one of the executives.

I wasn't aware there were any leaks that caused them any problems. I just thought their entrance into the market was late. But then again, everyone's entrance into the market behind the iPad is late.

Now there are so many devices it's rather hard to tell one product from another.

Back to the X1 changes, my top request would be a higher resolution screen. If they had a high quality 1440x900 or 1600x900 screen on the X1, I would be using one right now instead of a MacBook Air. So I am hopeful the X2 will have that.

 

This will sound silly- but I find the 'simplification' of the x1 as compared to my previous thinkpad (z61t) semi-patronizing.....hence the comparison to a child's calculator. I honestly dont mind though- as I am a total novice who just needed a durable computer that isnt too heavy. But seriously, where is my blue enter key....

Agreed! These are 2 major sticking points for me as well. Although my touchpad is "programmed" to work as I wish it to (and all updates were done)- the right click (bottom right corner) rarely functions as it should (default setting). I have not yet researched around to see if this is a common problem- but it is driving me batty.

I also have not been able to get over 3 hours of battery life (reading- not tested) on energy saver mode (wifi on)- but I only just received it so I figure I will give it some time? I bought it from the cdw outlet- so it arrived with 3 cycles on the battery- and aside from the battery firmware update, I have not run the battery down lower than 50%, and leave it plugged in all the time (set to start charging at 65% and stop at 90%). Any suggestions for specific settings would be most appreciated.

The only note I can make for any potential buyers of the x1 still out there is - do not pay retail! I am happy with the machine given my priorities at this time (durability, keyboard, fit+finish, weight, speakers/webcam) but I also only paid $742 (~$800 shipped) for an i5 HDD model w/3 yr warranty (129126u) - and am still annoyed that I have to pay more to get the slice.

Given the resolution + battery, I do not think it is worth the asking price. (not a new revelation, just abundantly clear now that I have seen one in person)

 

I just recently sold my x220 tablet, and purchased a hp envy 14 beats edition as a replacement. It didn't take long for me to pick up another thinkpad. I'm pretty happy with the X1. It definitely feels rock solid, not something that I felt in the X220 Tablet.

 

The X1 is the strongest laptop (physically) I have ever evaluated. If they would improve a few aspects it would be a strong seller. The 1366x768 screen is holding it back.

 

Agreed here. If the next generation has a longer battery life without the slice and a 1600x900 screen, I'd imagine it'd be quite a popular Thinkpad.

 

I think the next version would be an ultrabook (if my guesses are correct), which would be a killer machine. Not sure about leaks, haven't heard anything, but then again we are not working in the IT consumer product industry that deals with these sort of info.

I think i knew which information leak they are talking about and which executive in this case.

But you probably don't need an info leak to work out how lenovo is placing their bet with their future ThinkPad lineup.

 

They should transform all X/T ThinkPads into ultrabooks as far as it concerns thickness and weight.
W series could shave off some weight and thickness as well.
Oh and make HD+ 1600x900 optional on all their models, 768 is useless, try to use gmail with that, its just useless resolution!

 

The X1 is a fantastic machine. Needs a bit more battery life but all in all great.
Thin light 13" and fast.

as for the 768 resolution. Small adjustments to Windows 7 fixed this as now I find it useable for just about anything.
I had a Sony with the 1600x900 and it was ok. Just unhappy with the NB.

i make the adjustments to Windows 7 that has me looking at about the sam resolution.
and yes Gmail is very very useable, as is Outlook 2010.

 

quick q- How do you clean the matte coating on the body of the x1?

I have not attempted to remove the stickers on the palm rest yet b/c I am afraid of damaging the coating when trying to remove any residue (ive also left fingerprints on the rear of the lcd)

 

I always remove the stickers the 1st day I have a machine. Any remaining residue is easily removed with a little WD40.

 

Hopefully, we'll be seeing a prototype X2 at CES next week.

 

I'm betting not. I'm betting the new Samsung Series 9 will be on display but the X2 will be MIA. But I actually do hope we'll get some information on it.

 

I saw this one the Lenovo Facebook page:

First thing I thought of was the X2....

 

I wonder what the screen and port selection is like on this?

Edit: Could this be the X1 hybrid?

 

According to various internet posts, it's a ThinkPad T430u.

We'll find out tomorrow.

 

Could it be possible it will offer a decent quality 1600x900 display, even if it's optional?

 

I would imagine a 1600x900 display will be an option. That's the case with the current T420s. Decent quality to be determined.

 

That is what I was thinking too, hence why I mentioned it. I am just hoping it is a matte display with a color gamut of 60%+ with accurate colors and better than average viewing angels.

 

Lenovo ThinkPad T430u ultrabook coming this summer - Liliputing Nothing on the X2 yet. T series ultrabook looks fine but the X2 will hopefully be a lot thinner and lighter.

 

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Hybrid Tour - YouTube

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Hybrid: Behind the Design - YouTube