ThinkPad X240s

well its a trade off btwn weight and battery life. since this is a small portable, battery life is probably important to most buyers. and like IBMThink said, it's still a really light system.

they could have used a 4-cell and sacrificed battery life. or put in a single 6-cell that would either protrude out the back or out the bottom, ruining the form factor. so i think 2 separate 3-cells is a good compromise: maintains the form factor, good battery life, and still light weight overall. but like i said, if there's an option to remove one of the batteries on the fly, that would be the best of both worlds. and you wouldn't be able to do that with a single 4 or 6-cell.

the non-S X240 seems to have a removable external 3-cell plus an internal one. Lenovo needs to announce something for the US already.

 

Yeh but thats comparing apples with oranges. You should compare x220 with x230/x240 and x201s with x230s and x240s. The x201s weighed 1.1Kg with 4 cell battery. Haswell CPUs reduce the power required- so I wouldn't expect the x240s to weigh more than the x201s (1.1Kg). The whole point of the x-series S is to be as light as possible- otherwise just get a normal x-series like the x220 or x230/x240.

 

Yeh but my point is- the x201s was able to have a 4 cell battery and have amazing battery lifetime. The Haswell CPUs are even more power-efficient, so instead of needing to concentrate on battery life, by default this will increase anyway due to the improved CPU efficiency- so by using the same batteries as the x201s the battery life would have increased. Therefore lets assume they wanted to keep the same battery life as x201, they could have made the battery smaller and the laptop weighing 900g (which would be a huge marketing boost too).

In short- I am saying there was no problem with the battery life of the x201s and the new Haswell CPUs would increase the battery life without doing any changes to the x-series- so why on earth go and add more battery weight?

 

That, or maybe people who use their laptops with 2-3 external monitors, or care about dual core vs quadcore performance differences, are a minority on global scale.

T530 and T430 exist, and both have equal performance, and can be configured with same CPUs and same NVidia GPUs, come with HD or HD+ screens, neither has quadcore option (at least at the public site), pricing is the same etc. The only difference is the screen physical size and weight.

I don't have access to Lenovo's original sales data, so can't really tell whether Lenovo have sold more of T530 or T430. But I seriously doubt that T530 sales are insignificant compared to T430.

 

That, or maybe people who use their laptops with 2-3 external monitors, or care about dual core vs quadcore performance differences, are a minority on global scale.

T530 and T430 exist, and both have equal performance, and can be configured with same CPUs and same NVidia GPUs, come with HD or HD+ screens (FullHD option is rarely used, or Lenovo would have run out of AUO panels long time ago), neither has quadcore option (at least at the public site), pricing is the same etc. The only difference is the screen physical size and weight.

I don't have access to Lenovo's original sales data, so can't really tell whether Lenovo have sold more of T530 or T430. But I seriously doubt that T530 sales are insignificant compared to T430.

 

Because both are so close to each other in terms of specs and features, most people prefer the smaller one - T430. You've just confirmed my point again. We give our users a choice and they always try to go for the smaller form factor provided there's no big compromise on the performance side of things.

 

I don't think you're making a good comparison there. 14" laptops are considerably more portable than 15" laptops but still maintain a similar level of usability. When you drop to 12.5" you're getting to where your average user considers that to be "too small." Basically, there's a limit to the preference for a smaller form factor and I think the X2## falls below that cutoff except among those specifically looking for extreme portability.

 

Is the 8GB limit only due to the fact that there are no 16GB SODIMM modules and only one RAM socket? When 16GB SODIMM modules are available, would the x240s be able to accomodate one 16GB module?

 

Yes, of course you could use an 16 GB SODIMM module. Haswell isn´t limited to 8GB, it could easily take 32 GB like Ivy- Bridge did.

The problem is indeed that there is only one memory slot. If you take a look at the inside, you know why: There isn´t enough room:

 

Well, I switched from 18.4" M18x to 12.5" and though I wouldn't do 100% of work on such a small screen, it's more than adequate for occasional on-the-go sessions. If you have external monitors at home and work, why would you need a bigger laptop?? When doing presentations for customers you normally have a projector or wireless HD display. And if you insist on extreme mobility, - why not save some weight and room? Again, I'm talking equal performance/RAM/storage/features. Maybe we should create a vote here....

 

Well anyone with 2 brain cells can see why they encountered that issue- sticking two batteries on the motherboard of an ultraportable probably wasn't a great idea....

What was the thinking behind this?!?!

 

Two batteries allow one to swap one battery without shutting down the notebook.

 

if i had to choose between 16GB RAM and 1 battery or 8GB RAM and double the battery, i'd choose the latter. not that the battery is the sole reason for having 1 DIMM. but really, how much room does one extra dimm take up, Lenovo? you couldn't shimmy one in there? it's like half a credit card.

 

So, there's only 1 SODIMM slot and no soldered ram in the x240s right?

 

Yes, thats correct. Max. 8 GB (I don´t think 16 GB DDR3 SODIMMS will come out, DDR4 is already on the way in the coming year).

 

is 8GB ram enough when runnings VMs?

 

Problem is what if you want this laptop to last 2-3 (or even more) years? Like one person said, may be they wont even make 16GB SODIMMs.

 

It's doable but it's pretty tight, depending on the OS you're virtualizing and what you're running in there. I personally would recommend 16 GB (or more) for heavy VM use.

 

That shouldn´t be a problem at all. Just think about it: How many Notebooks and PCs still have 4 GB of RAM. 8 GB should be enough for all basic tasks, and some more.

Sure, if you use many VMs, than 8 GB won´t serve you very well.

 

16GB is min for any serious virtualization. I'd recommend 32GB, especially if you want to simulate big projects like SSCM + Exchange DAGs. 8GB is enough for running small projects. So it really depends on what you are up to.

 

Real Life X240s photos (Review)

 

Wow.... that is sexy. Lenovo really needs to put real life picture of laptop on their website rather than mis-coloured computer generated ones.

 

Nice. Wish they had the 1920x1080 screen and got some pictures, though.

 

So is there a possible chance the release of the x240s will come to Canada?

 

Hello sir,
For what you are describing, a notebook designed for lightweight/traveling (and still be useful) is just not the right computer.
If you want to do this while sitting in an airplane, you need to carry a big suitcase to fit an appropriate laptop
Not an X series...

I find it a pity that people always seem to demand manufacturers to sqeeze more and more resources into a laptop which is supposed to be one of the smallest and lightest of all series, thats what other series are there for.
The result is even the light ones getting bigger and heavier, and still not having decend battery life for longer travels.
F.i. one of the reasons I stopped using lenovos notebooks completely was because the X series started to get much bigger in size than before (X60s was the best laptop I have ever had).
Why? because people nowadays want widescreen.
just look at an image of a X60s and a X240s. x240s has so much wasted space around the keyboard, all because of the need of a big widescreen.

I would preferr a model with smaller dimensions, already enough big width laptops exist.
Why not buy a bigger one instead of demanding putting high res big displays and 32GB of RAM into the travel laptops...


my opinion.

 

No, thats not the reason. The reason is, there isn´t any room to spare inside the X240s:
View attachment 100469
If you cut off the display-bezel and the keyboard bezel to have a smaller footprint, you would loose room inside.

The X240s is 4cm wider than the X60s, 2mm less tall and much thinner.

 

Yeah, it is indeed a pity.

If you look closely, you'll find the situation irrational. They want more capabilities squeezed into the svelte form-factor of a compact notebook, yet they want the components for such resources to be readily accessed and replaced.

Welcome to the forum.

 

In general I agree with these statements however I disagree on the screen factor ^^^

My X200 (non-tablet version) is very good in regards to ergonomics and portability. It offers a full-voltage processor (2.4 ghz C2D), 2.5" HDD, 16:10 screen (aftermarket PVS on mine), and a full-sized keyboard. Subjectively the full-sized keyboard feels and functions very well! I am not sure it would not have been possible to put that keyboard in an X6x-series. As far as weight is concerned my X200 (non-tablet) is very light even with a 9-cell battery. Last fall on alternating instances I took either my T400 or the X200 (with 9-cell battery) to campus with me. I found the weight difference-to-my-level-of-comfort to be in favor of the X200. I am not sure how maintenance-friendly the new X240-series will be for its users but I still find the older models to be adequate for my demands at this point in time

 

The space is there because Lenovo shrunk the keyboard, just to prove the point they can even further cripple the layout. Insert key is no more there, and thus no more Ctrl+Insert/Shift-Insert for Copy/Paste. Enter, Backspace, \ keys are all smaller compared to X230. And, of course, people switch their laptops on and off about as often as they press Delete or Enter key, and only slightly less often then taking screenshots - so it's totally logical to place ON/OFF and print-screen buttons next to spacebar and Enter.

X240s: http://www.lenovo.com/images/gallery/1060x596/lenovo-laptop-thinkpad-x240s-overhead-keyboard-2.jpg
X230: http://www.lenovo.com/images/OneWeb...PC-Overhead-Keyboard-View-gallery-845x475.jpg

 

The machine in my sig :
12.5" very similar in thickness and size to X230
16GB RAM
2TB Storage (2x1TB)
WWAN
6 hours of battery life
Quad core full voltage CPU (3632QM)

And yes, I can do anything on it. My main os is Server 2012 Datacenter with Hyperv-3 and my entire VM lab environment.

Am I asking for impossible? Really? If a year old machine can handle all of my requirements, - there's no reason why the vendors can't match/surpass that!

 

That "challenge" should be offered to HP itself. Oh and you forgot to mention the sucky screen. Server OS and VMs on notebooks are old news.

People do racing with custom-modified Civic's. But Honda never cares to sell such cars.

 

Weight is different though, as according to the spec, 2570p is "Starting at 3.6 lb (Starting at 1.63 kg) (without optical drive)" and X230 "Starting at 1.34kg (2.96lbs)".

And I suspect that the number of users who really benefit, i.e. do run specific workloads and save, say, 10 minutes/a day, from having a quadcore in a laptop, and absolutely must have 2TB of HDD + WWAN and not just 1.5TB ( mSATA+2.5" slot), and absolely must have it in the package not an inch larger than 8x12x1", yet don't care whether it's 3lbs or 4lbs, is rather low.

Btw. Sony used to make a nice 13" laptop spec-wise about 2 years ago, with a decent FHD screen, quadcore, RAID-0 SSDs, external video card in the dock etc. etc., with all that weighting 2.6 pounds. And even pricing wasn't really crazy. Not anymore. And that is probably not because of overwhelming demand.

 

I tend to hit "insert" and select "typeover" accidentally. I don't mint it being relegated to the FN key. I don't understand reversing the "F" keys, making them actuated by an FN press. Nevertheless, I like the look of this new Thinkpad. Since my X301 still handles all of my needs, I have no desire to replace it ATM.

 

The screen is not an issue, you can upgrade it to IPS from x230

Well if 300gr is the main deal breaker for you - then I rest my case.

Under certain circumstances, a quad core is almost 2x more powerful, which can translate to half the time spent on encoding or running complex computations. Not to mention that the product becomes far more future proof. Same goes for storage. Having 2 2.5" SATAIII slots is a very big pro for a 12.5" machine. 1.5TB 9.5mm drives have been recently announced bringing the total storage to 3TB potentially. Do I find this crucial for a mobile system? No. But I do find it very convenient to be able to put all my work and home computing needs in a single mobile device. I don't need another laptop or desktop anymore. So yeah, in this time of techno progress, I'd only look at something that offers more performance and features in a small enough package than what I currently have. I really like the looks of Thinkpads and have been a long time TP user. I still have a 10 year old IBM R40. But I absolutely dislike the trend to super slim and light at the expense of power and features...

 

Yeah, used to.

But the last good one was the VPC-Z1 which had an internal GPU.


I considered opening a dedicated thread at some point regarding that I feel I have a ton of "Laptop History" on my desk:

Vaio-TT:
11.1" Screen; 8GB Ram, SU9600 Processor, Blu-Ray Writer (!!!), Docking Station, 3G, Fingerprint Reader and Expresscard in 11" Formfactor.
Hands down my favourite Laptop EVER MADE. Sadly discontinued without a successor.

Vaio VPC-Z13:
13.1" IPS Screen with 1600x900 Resolution (FHD optional) - Two (Raid 0) SSDs, Docking Station, ODD (Blu-Ray possible) 3G, Fingerprint Reader, Expresscard, Full-Voltage Core-I Processor and NVidia GT330M GPU. Sadly terribly unreliable - I believe I used the On-Site-Service six times to date, and will call a 7th time, because the Screen just died.
Also - sadly - discontinued without a successor (Z2 / Z3 had no internal ODD, no internal GPU and have been discontinued by now as well.

So what could I get instead, that matches what I had before? It seems there is no device like that. Really, back than Sony could use their old Slogan "like.no.other" and I.... ...am stuffed.

Sony now only offers machines without Docking, without ODD, without Fingerprint Sensor, without 3G (Pro and Duo Models) - Seriously? ?

So my next best bet would have been the X240(s), if it delivers everything the X230 did, just adding Haswell and a good resolution (still lacking the ODD though).

Instead I (also) bought a 2570p (Core i5, 3G, 16GB Ram, 512GB SSD, ODD) for the time being, and while I don't believe it is possible to install the IPS-Screen from the X230, the FHD Screen from an XPS12 may be possible, if that ever becomes available for purchase.

I also want the smallest formfactor possible, delivering performance for VMs (16GB Ram), Mobility (3G), Security (Fingerprint) and a docking-solution enabling me to use all my peripherals and a WQHD (or higher) resolution Display.

However, I feel that I keep constantly downgrading. Laptops either get bigger, or lose performance (all those ULV Ultrabooks)... I just want a new TT or Z that does it all. Including a Blu-Ray drive that hardly gets used, just because it makes me feel better that I can (watch a movie in a Hotel Room or burn a CD for that Rental Car without USB/Aux slot). If all of that was possible in 2009 (Vaio TT), why the F... do Lenovo, Apple and HP seem to think you can't build a machine like that in 2013 anymore? Go ahead, solder the ram, use proprietary SSDs, ditch Docking and Fingerprint and 3G - but don't wonder why PC sales go down the drain.

 

yea, i don't buy this "it's too small to handle a full-power CPU" business. My opinion is that they want to "stratify" their products and not eat into sales. But if the option is a larger notebook with a powerful CPU or a smaller one with a ULV CPU, there's a third option called neither. But I'm sure the business geniuses at these companies take that into account and their spreadsheet says they still come out ahead.

 

300gr is almost 20%, if the whole thing is 3 pounds. Add an optical drive or HDD into the slot - it's closer to 25% difference. It's definitely noticeable to anyone, every time, unlike CPU / number of 2.5" slots etc.

As to my personal preference, I find W520 being about as practically portable as X2xx, and much more usable for productive work when mobile because of physical screen size. Either needs a backpack for transportation anyway, and there it does not matter whether it's 3 pounds or 6.

Yes, in theory. In practice - people who do save real minutes and hours a day because of faster computations, just don't use laptops for the computations - there is much faster hardware available when there is no need to take compromises to fit everything into a tiny package consuming sub-100W, including GPU and display. For typical laptop tasks, including running test/demo VMs (most idle), there is hardly any difference between dual core and quad core.

Again, it's just a personal preference. For me, it does not matter how many SATA slots a 12.5" machine has internal, because it's 12.5" screen is just too small. And on the desk, where a usable monitor is, and where there is power supply to use the CPU, there is NAS/USB3/OneLink/eSATA/whatever.

But most users, apparently, vote with their wallets for thinner and lighter and smaller, even if it's just slightly more powerful than iPad+keyboard. CPU/GPU/storage - who cares. And given the things most people use their laptops for, especially in enterprise environment where there is a growing trend to Citrix/"Cloud" everything, and connectivity everywhere improving every year, I can't see why this trend won't continue, whether we like it or not. Want a powerful machine, desktop replacement, that can crunch some numbers and has big storage for these numbers, why not to get a 15"+ desktop replacement, which at least comes with a barely usable screen size for multitasking?

 

Completely agree! How on earth can the x230 have 16GB max RAM and the x240 (with a processor which uses a lot less power) doesnt have the capacity for at least the SAME amount of max RAM as the x230? Instead- a max of 8GB!?

 

Hopefully all these Ultrabooks with 's' are not replacement for the mainstream machines.

But it's really funny to see how manufactures are now sacrificing everything, from RAM and storage to keyboard key travel, just to shave a few extra millimeters of the most practically pointless dimension: laptop height when closed. Why does it matter whether it's 19mm when closed in the thickest point, or 25mm? It's still the same bulk, still goes into the same bag, still weights about the same?

 

Agreed... the same is happening with the 14" T4XXs -- too many sacrifices being made in terms of function all to get a slightly more svelte form, from the loss of trackpad buttons to smaller batteries and less RAM. It's reversing the "function over form" principle that made Thinkpads so great (if ugly) in the first place, and I'm disappointed Lenovo is jumping on the thinner-at-all-costs bandwagon.

 

The new UltraNav design has nothing to do with thinness.

Smaller batteries? Maximum battery capacity T430s: 76Wh (with Ultrabay-battery), Maximum battery capacity T440s: 95Wh (with optional 6-cell battery)

 

I'll be honest I do prefer them trying to make the laptop lighter..... but this laptop isn't lighter!!!! The x200s and x201s both weighed 1.1kg with the 4 cell battery. The x240s apparently weighs 1.28kgs.....

So we have a laptop which is heavier than one from 2009 and has same RAM as a laptop from 2010!??!?!

 

Yes, but the X200s/X201s with 4-cell battery had much less battery capacity ("4-cell: up to 3.7 hr"). I doubt anyone would use it in this config. If you compare it tot the X200s/X201s with 6-cell battery, the difference isn´t very big: 1.23kg vs. 1.28 kg.

Also, compared to the X220/X230, its a big step forward. In fact, the X240s is a big improvement in the weight/batter- capacity ratio compared to the X230:
- X240s: 1.28 kg with 47 Wh
- X230: 1.35 kg with 28 Wh

 

It's hard to believe people would rather have a 300gr weight reduction and willing to sacrifice 30%-50% performance.... But that's true, the majority is looking for slim and light + battery nowadays...

 

People have different needs and priorities.

Performance relative to what?

 

Depends on the people. It seems logical to me that the people who care about weight enough to accept the huge visible deficiency: a screen as small as that of IBM 5153 CGA monitor (that was commonly used with IBM PC XT 3 decades ago), resolution from the same era (XGA is the early 90s) and a shrunk keyboard, would rather prefer having 300g lighter device to something that is slightly faster.

 

Haswell comes with massive efficiency savings, right? So even keeping the same battery size/weight/cells from the x220/x230 the x240 will see a large increase in battery life with no effort from Lenovo. So why the sudden need to start throwing two batteries in to an ultraportable?

For example, say the x230 with a44 cell battery gave 3 hours battery life- keeping everything constant an x240 with Haswell would probably give 4 to 4.5 hours. At least with the x230 I have the choice whether I want the 4/6 or 9 cell. With the x240s I don't have any choice- im stuck with a heavier laptop and more battery than I need....

If Lenovo had been smart they wouldnt have removed choice from the user- the standard 4/6/9 cell battery would cover whatever the user wanted- would allow people like me to have a light laptop and those who want more time to use the 6/9. Instead they have cut down the max ram and alienated pretty much everyone???

 

People don't buy x-series (S-version) for performance- they buy it for weight.....

If I wanted performance I'd get a T-series. Now the X and T are effectively being merged!

 

No. "People have different needs and priorities.", written by Kaso. This is true. Most people buy an X-Series, because they have a nice small size, but still manage to have a great battery life, the same performance as a 14" T-Series (well, without nVidia), a DockingPort, a full-size keyboard etc. Weithg is of course a factor, but I doubt that it is THE most important factor for the most people.

Maybe you buy it for weight, but you can´t tell if thats the main point for most of the other people than you. Different people, different priorities.

No, the X240s is still lighter than an X230, even an X230 with a 4-cell battery.

Well, they would still have the same problem as with the X230: The smallest battery, which wouldn´t stick out, wouldn´t be enough, and the other batteries would make the laptop thicker and heavier. In the end, 90 % of the people would use a bigger battery which sticks out - the thinnes adavantage would be wasted, only to cover a really small group, which wants a notebook to be as light as possible.

Well, that depends how you define "everyone". I am sure most companies, which are the main customers Lenovo serves, will be fine with the 8 GB Maximum for the X240s, because they don´t need. And most private buyers (students etc.) also. Sure, if you want to run VMs, 8GB will be not enough. But thats not everyones use case.

Systems like Helix or the X1 Carbon (or the X1) are also stuck with 8 GB of RAM, and most buyers also don´t have a problem with that.

 

So you've defined what someone buys an X-Series laptop for. Now what does someone buy the s model of the X-Series for, like the person you replied to asked? That appears to be the crux of the issue being discussed at the moment, and is being misunderstood by the side defending the weight from what I've read.

Hopefully your answer isn't for the same great weight and performance as the regular X-Series