Thinkpad Carbon X1 Extreme (upcoming)

+ Battery life

 

The Lenovo salesman lowered the price again. How does it look?



Your Lenovo Quote



Thu Nov 15 2018
09:16 EST
Expiration Date:

Sun Nov 18 2018
09:16 EST
Lenovo ID:



Here is what you requested

Item:
ThinkPad X1 Extreme
Part No: 20MFCTO1WW


Qty:
1
Price:
$3,485.00
● 8th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-8850H vPro 6 Core Processor (2.60GHz, up to 4.30GHz with Turbo Boost, 9MB Cache)
● Windows 10 Pro 64
● Windows 10 Pro 64 English
● 15.6” 4K UHD HDR (3840 x 2160) IPS multi-touch, anti-reflective / anti-smudge, 400 nits
● 32 GB (16GB + 16GB) DDR4 2666MHz
● NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050Ti 4GB
● IR & 720p HD Camera with microphone
● Backlit Keyboard - US English
● Fingerprint Reader
● Hardware dTPM
● 1TB Solid State Drive PCIe-NVMe OPAL2.0 M.2
● 1TB
● Smart Card Reader
● 4 cell Li-Polymer 80Wh
● 135W AC Adapter
● Intel 9560 802.11AC vPro (2 x 2) & Bluetooth 5.0
● Full size Ethernet Extension Connector
● vPro Certified
● Publication - English
● Standard Packaging
● 1 Year Depot or Carry-in

Item:
3Y Premier Support with Onsite NBD Upgrade from 1Y Depot/CCI
Part No: 5WS0T36118


Qty:
1
Price:
$139.00

Item:
3Y Accidental Damage Protection compatible with Onsite warranty
Part No: 5PS0F15928


Qty:
1
Price:
$99.00



Total:
$2,503.25
Shipping free
$1,219.75 coupon saved
$2,503.25 total

 

I'm on VMware Workstation Pro 14.1.4 and run RHEL 6.x, RHEL 7.5, Windows 7 Pro, Windows 2008 Pro and Windows 2012 Pro VMs with middleware and DB installed in the VMs. My external monitor is a 3840x1600 Dell U3818DW 38" monitor and I run PBP with a client's ThinkPad T470. Their machine occupies the right half of the screen, mine the left. I run the Dell for both the client and my own machine at 150% scaling, the X1C at 300%. Scaling in the VMs I run at 200% and if I move a VM back and forth between my machine and the Dell no problems.

On the client T470 I RDP into Win2012 servers and I have no problems with scaling there either. Going to be re-installing TightVNC here shortly for another use case and if I run into any heartburn there I'll follow up and let you know.

Battery life, as others have alluded to following your inquiry, I'm plugged in 95% of the time.

 

But all those docks get a lot of bad reviews on Amazon.

 

Thunderbolt docks spent a LOT of time being a huge pain. It took more than a year of several system BIOS updates, system TB3 controller firmware updates, driver updates, and dock firmware updates before things started to stabilize. Even the Dell TB16 was a replacement for their original TB15 dock that they ended up completely recalling due to widespread hardware problems. The situation is quite a bit better now, but the justifiably bad reviews from the early days are still there.

 

Unfortunately, though, JP, the bad reviews are not just from the early days. You can look at the am. reviews in chronological order and the 1 star "it is junk" reviews are coming in as much as ever. I'll just hold off on a dock for now.

 

Fair enough. In my experience with the TB16 on recently updated systems and docks, I haven't had any issues, and I admittedly hadn't looked at reviews recently because I've already got my own experience to go on, but of course mine is just one of many. For what it's worth, Lenovo's new TB3 Workstation Dock and the new Thunderbolt 3 Dock Gen 2, the latter of which appears to be the same as the former except that it comes with a regular TB3 cable and doesn't come with the second AC adapter, both seem to use the new Intel Titan Ridge TB3 chipset since they're apparently compatible with regular USB-C systems, albeit with reduced functionality. So maybe those will be better?

 

Most but not all of the latest reviews for the Thun 3 dock Gen 2 are very good. Why is it most of the reviewers are using it on Macbooks?

 

Where are you seeing reviews for the Gen 2 version? I can’t even find a Lenovo product page for it. The only reference to it I’ve found has been in the documentation for the TB3 Workstation Dock since they share an owner’s manual.

 

Oh sorry, I was looking at CalDigit TS3 "Gen 2"...

https://www.amazon.com/CalDigit-TS3...07DYMVY99/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

Ah ok. Looks like StarTech now has a bunch of TB3 docks available -- a bit too many, IMHO. But I've had consistently good experiences with other StarTech products, so they might be worth looking into.

UPDATE: Ok, I broke them down a bit:

TB3DK2DPW -- Only works on Windows because it uses an older TI chipset that Apple decided not to support. No USB-PD.

TB3DKDPMAW -- Same as above except it also works with Macs and offers a paltry 15W over USB-PD, which StarTech notes can trickle charge some laptops.

TB3DK2DPPD -- Same as above but adds 85W USB-PD.

TB3DK2DHV -- More built-in video output connectors, no audio or front USB-C outputs like above options, but still has 85W USB-PD.

TB3DOCK2DPPD -- Similar to TB3DK2DPPD, but adds SD card reader and more USB-A ports, switches separate line-out and mic connectors for headset jack.

TB3DK2DPM2 -- Similar to above, with built-in M.2 NVMe slot, and slightly different port setup.

TB3DKM2DP -- "Mini-dock" that only has dual DisplayPort, USB-A 3.0, and Ethernet. No USB-PD.

TB3DKM2HD -- "Mini-dock" that only has dual HDMI 2.0, USB-A 3.0, USB-A 2.0, and Ethernet. No USB-PD.

 

Does the X1E have a physically clickable trackpad? I just saw The Verge’s review where the author commented how awkward it was to have the clicker buttons above the touchpad. Maybe the author didn’t realize that those buttons were meant to be used by TrackPoint users, but I wondered if it might have been because the touchpad can’t be physically pressed down on the bottom edge to be clicked. Can it? I realize there’s also tap-to-click, but I’ve never liked that feature and always disable it.

 

35% off on lenovo usa....10-15% off lenovo ita...wtf...

 

He was just ignorant. The TrackPad can be clicked.

 

Thanks!

 

What GPU temperatures are folks getting with this laptop?

With a -130mv undervolt to the CPU core and cache, on the 8750H, Intelligent Cooling disabled, system optimized for performance, best performance power mode, the latest Nvidia Drivers, and BIOS 1.15, I am getting up to 93 degrees Celsius on the 1050 TI Max-Q after three loops of Unigine Valley.

 

Have you repasted yet? Would not recommend stock paste on any of these thin laptops.

 

I've yet to find a skin for this machine, carbon fiber (my preference) or otherwise. Anyone know of anywhere to get one?

EDIT: In lieu of locating one (so far), got a Honeycase leather folio stand ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GVD6Z1Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 that's actually for a Yoga 730 (which is also 15.6") and it fits perfectly. Dimensions between a Yoga 730 and an X1 Extreme are a couple of millimeters off, but it's very close, close enough you can't tell it wasn't made for it.

 

Little bit of shameless self-promotion, but I did a quick review of my P1 and compared it frequently against the XPS 15 9570 in today's podcast here:

 

XPS 9570 user (well not anymore) and I just returned it for the full refund. Couldn't take the bios etc stupidities from Dell.

Looking for a new laptop then, which will be my main workstation and also something i will be lugging to trips (tech shows etc).

The X1E has me interested as I really like Thinkpads and have had few T4XX series before.

Has anyone got the i5 version with FullHD panel? That is the one that I am thinking, not sure if i just should get the i7 model which would be little pricier. It's really pricy where I live in any config which is the main "problem" for me.

I was thinking maybe going with the T480 but I kind of thinking of needing the extra power as in future might need to do some video editing.

So is the i5 version a wise decision or should i just eat the dust and get the i7. How are the fans (if someone has used both) for normal usage (word processing, excel, web browsing etc normal) and also with some higher work load (adobe lightroom, photoshop, picture editing, video edit). Also interested more on the battery life

 

Here's a review of the i5 version, it's a European model so the it's the i5-8300H and not the 8400H like in the US. Sounds like you can't go wrong with either model honestly. Unless you have to have an i7, I'd get the i5 to save a bit and go easier on the thermals, that's my plan with my next laptop.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenov...GTX-1050-Ti-Max-Q-Laptop-Review.339576.0.html

 

Yeah read that today. Seems to be very good setup anyways. Even often "only" 4core it would be have better performance than the U chips in the t480 line.

I live in Europe and we have both i5 and i7 version configurable on Lenovos site but I think the 8400H is not a really "big" upgrade in performance sense. The i5 basic config is 2000euros here with a special code from Lenovo so really pricey.

 

I'm putting mine through the ringer right now. So far the fan pitch may cause me to send it back though...

 

How are the thermals and fan noise compared to the XPS? Which config you have?

 

So far thermals and fan noise are worse than the 9570 by a fair amount. I will post up a new thread with benchmarks and what not. Running the i7-8750H, 16GB (single stick), and FHD.

 

Does anyone know of a 512GB SDXC that will absolutely work in the X1C? Blew chunks on a PNY so, given their cost, want to hear of one for sure that works before I re-attempt.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers, B

EDIT: Answering my own question, a Lexar 512GB 400x Pro UHS-I SDXC works great, writes at 60 Mbps and reads at 80. Now can roll with all my installation media and not fill a quarter terabyte of space on either of my M.2s. Better yet, scored the card on eHoseBags for $50 from a power seller. H2testw validated the card just fine before I started loading binaries to it.

 

Is it true that Lenovo will already release an X1 Extreme version 2 later this year?

 

According to this roadmap they will release X1E2 in August.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Think...cluding-new-ThinkPad-X390-T495s.400896.0.html

 

Makes sense, the usual anual refresh for all laptops and models. Maybe there is a new Nvidia GTX1150/2050 as the new 1160.

I hope they make a new dock to support the 135W, maybe using two usb-c. A mechanical one for business old-fashion taste.

 

I wouldn’t bet on that happening personally, but a dock that didn’t require two separate AC adapters would be nice. I’ve found I actually prefer the cable dock solution. It allows more flexibility around how you arrange your desk, the dock doesn’t take up nearly as much space on your desk when you don’t have a laptop there, and of course it’s compatible with more systems. My wife has a USB-C dock on her desk that she can switch between using with her work Lenovo and personal Dell laptop.

 

I thought a refresh would wait until the new Ice Lake CPUs with 7mm (EDIT: 10mm, oops!) fabrication, a supposedly much improved GPU, and DisplayPort 1.4 support, but rumor is that even the U Series versions of those CPUs aren’t expected until the end of the year, and the H Series versions typically launch later.

 

Ice Lake will be manufactured in 10 nm, not 7. Ice Lake H will most likely come out in mid 2020.

This year, Intel will put out another 14 nm refresh for workstations and gaming laptops called "Coffee Lake Refresh". Those chips have already been released for desktops and Intel has announced that it will release mobile variants of Coffee Lake Refresh later this year.

 

Oops, I knew it was 10. Posted that before morning coffee! I just want DisplayPort 1.4 support.

 

Intel has shown they are willing to update their output ASICs on 14nm, with Goldmont Plus (Gemini Lake) which has HDMI 2.0. That being said, HDMI 2.0 mostly brings parity with DP1.2, so it may have been a less serious backend update.

 

In this year we will see 14nm++ Coffee Lake Refresh
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-9th-gen-h-series-cpu-specs,38623.html
X1E2 will be with i7-9750H.
Only X1E3 in next year will get Ice Lake CPU.

 

Given the relative pointlessness of Nvidia RTX, seems like this is a great year to not upgrade and miss out on nothing.

 

I doubt next gen Nvidia cards will have a decent RTX card similar to 1050ti with good RT performance.

 

Elaborate please? I haven’t been following the RTX lineup closely, but from what little I’ve read it seems to provide a decent performance boost even when raytracing is enabled, and even seems to consume less power, which should be good for battery life and reducing potential for thermal throttling — unless OEMs use that to downsize their cooling systems to go thinner, lighter, and/or cheaper. What am I missing?

 

August 2019 for X1E2

 

Thank you for posting this explanation about scale factor changes! This is the first time I have seen an explanation.

I have the 4k display which I run at 200% scaling, and I use external monitors at 100% scaling, and as you said, switching back and forth is a pain. I have resorted to rebooting my computer any time I switch between internal and external displays. Sometimes I even have to reboot twice to get the task bar icons to be the correct size. Fortunately I don't usually switch more than once per day, and I don't need to use the internal and external displays simultaneously, so I can live with it, but it was definitely something that surprised and frustrated me initially.

If I was buying again, I would probably go with FHD instead of 4k, since FHD has several benefits:

- Reduced weight
- Improved battery life
- No hassles related to scaling (when using external monitors with 100% scaling)
- No hassles with oversaturated/skewed colors related to a wide gamut display

The only reason I like the 4k display is for improved text sharpness. That is really nice, but not sure it's worth all the other tradeoffs.

 

They yield about 10-15 percent more performance in mobile than 10xx but at a much higher price. RTX and DLSS both seem to be failures (Hardware Unboxed has a great critical look at these features) beyond that. On the CPU side, we've basically been on Haswell forever. There are no more performance boosts outside of clock speeds and core counts. With 9th gen vs 8th gen, we see 10% increases in score with a 10% higher clock until the temps hit thermal limits and the performance falls off a cliff.

 

Ah ok. I haven’t looked into mobile RTX pricing, although I read a review of the desktop RTX 2070 saying that it was priced to replace the 1070 while delivering performance on par with the 1080. That’s a pretty typical price/performance pattern from one generation to the next. Does that picture look significantly different in the mobile space? I haven’t even gone looking for laptops that are offering both the 10 Series and RTX Series models as options to get a direct comparison. I know some existing laptops are getting the RTX, but I sort of figured they would drop the 10 Series offerings when that happened.

I definitely agree that it’s been pretty humdrum on the CPU side for a while, though.

 

Laptop-side, the pricing is a big jump. Companies seem to be focusing on the high-end these days, and the prices reflect it. At the same time, however, they just aren't creating products honestly worth that money in the gaming sector.

 

Ok, that makes more sense. I've been noticing that the low end has been neglected as well until you get all the way down to Chromebooks, where even those laptops that were meant to be ultra cheap are now getting premium offerings. I guess the low-end "real PC" market is losing out because the target market for those products are increasingly deciding that they can get by on just a Chromebook or iPad these days, and the manufacturers were only seeing razor thin profit margins from those products anyway. I don't follow the full gaming laptops closely since I'm just not a gamer, but I'm admittedly curious how the Dell Area 51m will do. It's a beast to be sure (it requires a second AC adapter just to run the dGPU!), but people have been asking for laptops with upgradeable CPUs and GPUs, and this ostensibly delivers that. The CPU can be replaced with any desktop CPU component, but the GPU will have to come from Dell, so of course it remains to be seen what options will be available. And not that most people will be able to use it, but I was surprised to see 2.5G Ethernet introduced there.

 

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...-Quadro-P2000-Max-Q-Workstation.338808.0.html
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...4K-HDR-GTX-1050-Ti-Max-Q-Laptop.334530.0.html

If I compare those two against the XPS https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-9570-i7-UHD-GTX-1050-Ti-Max-Q-Laptop-Review.332758.0.html

Than the emissions should be better on the Lenovo. But from what I am reading here it's not the case actually. Is there such a big variance in one production line that people make such different experiences?

Since I am looking for a new laptop with at least an i7 8750H I am getting confused by all this contradictory information. I was aiming for the X1 but now after reading custom90gt's comment I am taking a step back. However the XPS doesn't seem to be better if I read inffy's comments.

Are there any alternatives with good screen and low noise but with the same hardware?

 

Thicker laptops, for sure. The P1 and XPS both have thermal issues, but I believe the P1/X1E is able to be tweaked to work better. Dell has screwed around with their BIOS and neutered performance rather than properly engineer. If you are okay with tweaking, the X1E/P1. If you are not okay with tweaking, then DEFINITELY not the XPS 15. Maybe HP probooks?

 

Removing the plastic fan grill cover from the X1E DRAMATICALLY helped with fan noise. I just returned it to stock to sell it and I am amazed at how terrible that design is. It not only makes the fan noise more apparent but also super annoying (to me anyway).

 

The HP Zbooks looked interesting but after reading some user reviews I stepped away from them again quickly. It has big issues keeping it's clock as illustrated here
https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-...00-FHD-Workstation.345951.0.html#toc-leistung

Are there thicker 15" laptops? I think I have gone through all the available laptops right now without coming to a conclusion. I also noticed a lot of laptops having problems in LatencyMon.
So thin with silent cooling is almost impossible to achieve with a six core CPU. But also the thicker and heavier ones seem to have loud fans while not even maintaining a constant clock speed.

 

I picked up an X1 Extreme with the 4k screen last fall for my wife. There's a lot more power under the hood than we needed, but after months of looking I generally found it hard to find a package with a high quality 4k screen, decent GPU, warranty and decent light build at a good price. Basically my options were to overpay on power if I wanted the other requirements. The requirements you're asking for come with compromises. I don't think I would have bought it without that black friday sale (3 year warranty was discounted too!), though.

That said, it's been great for our use. It was pretty easy to tinker with but not as easy as it should be. Probably the most frustrating task was removing that ridiculous plastic grill. Took me an hour to clean off the adhesive residue (maybe I was just unlucky with how it peeled). Repasting wasn't hard, but was just inconvenient because I removed the fans and wiring to pop off the heatsink comfortably. Undervolts easily. Second SSD slot for convenience.

Removing the grill, repasting, undervolting and tweaking power settings were all needed to get that totally ridiculous fan noise under control. Now we rarely hear it.

While that's not ideal, I look at the price of a Macbook Pro or look at all the frustrations XPS owners have had with throttling and BIOS fails and tweaking... and I think I made the right choice. The X1 needed an acceptable level of tweaking for this use case.

Edit: Noted that I also needed a light chassis. If you don't need a light build a lot of problems go away.

 

Precision 7530, ThinkPad P52 (non-S), and then of course a wide range of gaming-oriented laptops. However, you'll likely have a number pad on your keyboard, thereby offsetting your hands from center during most usage, which some find annoying.