Thinkpad X1 Carbon 2012

If this is an Ultrabook, with an "ultra low voltage" CPU, does this mean this notebook's performance won't be good or even matching mainstream?

 

X1 is a business grade notebook and thinkpads are noted for performance and build quality. The new X1 will be more powerful than the current X1, which is already more powerful than most other ultrabooks.

 

Do you have the full specifications for the coming X1 Carbon or are you just speculating?

 

he is just speculating, Im not thinking that it will be more powerful, not even with the ulv i7, but it should be on par or not a significant difference

 

It actually did prompt me to do some digging and it appears some of the ULV procs are rather cool. The benchmarks should be interesting.

 

ulv cpus are great, and the i7 model starts at 2ghz, and can turbo to 3.2ghz (1 core), 3ghz (2 cores)

it should probably maintain the same level of power than the i5 2410m, probably even the i5 2520m

and sincerely for most people the ulv power is more than enough

 

As above, if you're a mainstream consumer, you won't notice a difference between ULV CPUs and normal ones since all CPUs will downclock when not stressed (which would be the majority of the time for these users).

 

add to that the SSD that comes in those types of machines making the ultrabook a fast proposition for the average joe

 

if its ulv, does it mean the hd 4000m will be weaker than a normal dual core 4000m?

 

Yes, but not by a whole lot. 10% or so.

 

you can say that thunderbolt dont have enough traction, that usb 3 has been launched for several years now, but its basically stupid to do a usb 3 dock, when you have thunderbolt right there

Lenovo launches USB 3.0 dock - SlashGear

this is the most dumb thing that I ever saw. The future of docking is thunderbolt, why dont you go for that NOW.

Im just seeing a gimped dock due to the bandwidth, it offers you a lot of connections with no means to provide that.

 

I need this in my hands within 3 weeks from today, come on Lenovo

 

it'll be august at the earliest.

 

Genuine question: did Lenovo state that or is it just speculation on the part of tech sites? I need it by mid-August!

 

you could look at the lenovo site, it says availability august
New Products from Lenovo - Tablets - Laptops- Desktops - New Technologies (US)

 

Thanks! Their page for the new X1 is a bit sparse and light on information.

 

Oh, well Samsung better have the series 9 IB with 8GB and 256GB within 20 days now.

 

This high-def youtube video (in russian) has a few good shots of the display. Coming from a 6-year old acer with a crappy screen, I gotta say: I have no idea whether it's IPS, but that display looks pretty good (see @2:21 in particular).

 

yeah it still offer more info than the page that I linked to you.

They could have sent dome review units to people, not to mention I still want to know the price.

 

yeah, you and me both!

 

Agreed. The screen looks nice in that video. It appears to be cranked on max brightness but it looks decent.

I gotta tell you though, the hinge seems like there's very little muscle needed to open and close the lid. It's hard to tell what that means long term but it's about the only concern I have for the machine and it's a nit.

Me wants.

 

Looks awesome! I want it now! Thinking of waiting until it comes out and not getting the Samsung 900X4C.

I wonder what real world battery life will be like, that would be the only deal breaker for me if it can't last half a day eg 4 hours.

 

Yeah, this laptop looks tempting to me, and my T500 and X120e are both still perfectly fine, too. Hopefully, battery life doesn't disappoint. Thinness at the significant expense of battery life isn't a tradeoff that would work for me.

 

Have to admit this notebook looks great.

 

You know, after I read the announcement, I filed this one away in the back of my mind until today when I came across an article mentioning it.

Unfortunately, back then, I missed the fact that while the old X1 was a 13" laptop, this is a 14". My personal preference in laptops in general is 13", as they're slightly more portable, and I'd rather just rock a 15" for it's increased screen / resolution (1080p?) rather than a 14".

Not to say this doesn't appear to be an outstanding laptop. The one thing I'm realizing is the fatal flaw with my HP Folio-13, is the lack of a second USB 3.0 port. If I want to transfer data from one USB 3.0 drive to another, I'm hamstrung in that regard. Not sure how I didn't realize this sooner. The second wave of ultrabooks mostly all seem to have a minimum of 2 USB 3.0 ports, which makes sense.

This looks like it'll probably be a direct competitor with the HP Folio Elitebook. Preference may come down to whether you prefer aluminum or carbon fiber.

Another random note, I noticed that there were no mouse buttons below the trackpad, and my first (immediate) reaction was "oh, forget this". Probably just out of habit from having had them down there for so long. Truth is, if I'm home with my laptop, I'm almost always using my wireless Logitech Dinovo Edge keyboard, which I absolutely love (has a built-in trackpad, so no need for a mouse for most task). However, after using my HP Folio-13 recently quite a bit without it, which has a pretty outstanding trackpad, I realize that I pretty much never use the left-click button (tapping the trackpad is much quicker/more convenient), and it's not like I wouldn't know where to find the right-click button in the above-trackpad location for the occasional right-click action. I realize this is probably a design choice due to the tapering silhouette of the X1 Carbon's frame, and truth-be-told, I don't think it's nearly as big an issue as anyone might initially think.

 

If you look at the dimensions of the bezel and palmrest, it looks like it will be marginally larger than the Folio but not dramatically so. Since it's 1600x900 the ppi will be higher than that of the Folio, the brightness is higher, and it's anti-glare rather than glossy. It looks to be thinner and lighter as well.

Overall, I don't think it will be any more cumbersome than the Folio (which is a fairly hefty ultrabook). On the other hand, the Folio is a nice machine in its own right and if you bought it at ~750.00 during that sale, you saved several hundred dollars over the X1 Carbon (not to mention that's a great deal for such a nice laptop). I certainly wouldn't feel bad about that purchase.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I really have no qualms about the HP Folio-13. It just suddenly hit me today, while I was transferring data from my external 1TB USB 2.0 drive, to a more modern 3TB USB 3.0 drive, that when I get the 2nd 3TB USB 3.0 drive to back up the first one, I'm going to want to figure out a way to plug them both in via USB 3.0, otherwise it's going to take a lot longer to populate the backup drive than I'd care to find out.

As for the (14") Folio Elitebook, I'm seeing from pictures, 3 total USB ports, and I believe that all of them are USB 3.0 (though I think only one is "powered", whatever that means...I thought all USB ports were powered, perhaps this means while the laptop is turned off to charge gadgets?).

http://resources.vr-zone.net/uploads/15805/Folio9470m.jpg

http://photos.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/HP-EliteBook-Folio-9470m_profile_L1.jpg

The Thinkpad X1 Carbon seems to only have 2 USB ports, though I think both of them are USB 3.0.

http://it.bzi.ro/public/upload/photos/21/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-carbon-3.jpg

http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/X1_closed.jpg

It wouldn't seem that there are any more ports hiding out on the backside of the X1 Carbon, as the lid being open would obviously completely block them.

If I were to buy a 14" model, I'd prefer 3 or more USB ports (heck, I'd prefer 3 USB ports in my 13" Folio-13, which only has two - by comparison, my two-year older Toshiba has 3 of them). Yes, I realize that Lenovo has that USB 3.0 Dock/Port Replicator, but as some have already pointed out, how on earth are you supposed to pipe 2 or more USB 3.0 ports through a single USB 3.0 port? That defies all logic, and would seem to be an obvious bottleneck if you're actually utilizing USB 3.0 speeds for the attached devices.

Two USB ports, and only one of them USB 3.0, imo, is one short in each category. Besides external hard drives, I have been known to simultaneously attach thumb drives and external mice/keyboards. Granted, a port replicator would work if I have to attach an external USB 2.0 mouse/keyboard combination, but it would simply be a lot easier to work with a mouse/keyboard with no port replicator (2 ports used), with the leftover port being utilized by the external hard drive at my desk. If I need to quickly plug in a thumb drive (or a second external hard drive to transfer data between the two), temporarily disconnecting the mouse or keyboard wouldn't be as much of a workflow issue as it is juggling only 2 total USB ports.

Just personal preference, really, but I think it makes sense.

Lenovo's offering also has the rapid charge technology going for it, something I originally remember seeing in some of Sony's walkman mp3 players years ago (that sort of technology was great then, I imagine it's just as awesome on a laptop now).

 

The Elitebook Folio looks nice but, as I recall, it's not coming out until October? Puts it out of the running for me, at least.

Aside from that, Dell is coming out with the XPS 14 which will apparently be ~.7" thick and ~3lbs, while having discrete (kepler of some sort?) graphics and 1600x900/400 nit screen. So, overall, seems as though it out-specs the Elitebook Folio and won't be any bulkier...and comes out sooner. For me, I think it's going to be between that and the Lenovo although I'm leaning towards Dell after a less-than-stellar experience with Lenovo support.

 

@robrain,
the X1 Carbon is not their mainstream Ultrabook. It is the premium-class and their top-of-the-line system. So you can´t compare it with HPs mainstream Ultrabook.

Lenovos mainstream Ultrabook is in fact the T430u. Thats the competitor for the HP Elitebook Folio.

 

Why can't I compare it against the 14" Elitebook Folio? They're both 14" Ultrabooks...that puts them in the same category, whether or not you want to call the Elitebook "premium".

Besides, if you're going to call the Lenovo X1 Carbon a "premium" ultrabook, shouldn't it be able to match or better the specs of "lesser" ultrabooks?

Ultrabooks are ultrabooks, so long as they have an SSD in them, I think it's a very good idea to compare them against one another.

At 1.05 inches thick, the Lenovo T430u almost seems like it should include a slim/slot-loading optical drive. The Elitebook Folio is 0.75 inches thick, by comparison. That's not even considering that the T430u is actually a smaller ultrabook, a 12.5" compared to the Elitebook Folio being a 14" model.

Two other potential contenders would be the Spectre XT and the Sony Vaio Z, but those are technically 13" ultrabooks. I prefer to directly compare models with matching screen sizes, rather than everything under the sun that falls under the "ultrabook" umbrella.

The Elitebook Folio honestly IS a direct competitor to the X1 Carbon:

Screen size for both: 14"

Thickness ("Thinness"):
HP Elitebook Folio: 0.75" (straight across)
Lenovo X1 Carbon: 0.71" (thickest point)

Weight:
HP Elitebook Folio (Metal): 3.6lbs
Lenovo X1 Carbon (Fiber): 3.0lbs

USB Ports:
HP Elitebook Folio: USB 3.0 (x3)
Lenovo X1 Carbon: USB 3.0 (x2)

Monitor Connectivity:
HP Elitebook Folio: Displayport, VGA
Lenovo X1 Carbon: Mini-Displayport

Not sure about the X1 Carbon yet (I'm assuming it does), but I found a review confirming that the HP Elitebook Folio has an i7 processor option (first link's review unit), as well as 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM options:

HP EliteBook 8470p Review | Business Tech Gear

HP EliteBook Folio 9470m reviews, specifications and news.

Short of the admittedly dinky 1366x768 display, the only real difference I see between these two systems (since internal specs are matchable), is that the HP Elitebook Folio, due to it's non-tapering chasis, has an extra USB 3.0 port, and full sized Displayport and VGA connectors, while the tapered (and 0.6 lbs lighter) Lenovo X1 Carbon has just a single Mini-Displayport.

Anything I missed? Is that all the difference it takes for one ultrabook to be considered premium nowadays, and another not? lol

 

You'd also probably be a little incorrect, HP's "mainstream" ultrabooks and sleekbooks are probably it's Envy line (and NOT the Envy Spectre XT):

AnandTech - HP Unveils New Ultrabooks, "Sleekbooks"

 

The T430u is 14 inch...

The Thinkpad X1C is premium because of carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is expensive, thus the X1C is going to be expensive thus premium.

The Envy line is consumer. Possibly except for the Spectre XT which might be marketed as prosumer like the Dell XPS13, and thus compete sort of with the X1C.

The EliteBook Folio is the mainstream business ultrabook.

 

Im not digging that premium or non premium ultrabooks. Ultrabook is already premium.

For me you have to stick as much as possible to the updated ultrabook requirements. You charge whatever you want, since the 1k price point is a recommendation not a requirement anymore. But you have to have those features required features, and not that terrible build quality that we saw on the toshiba and acer models (that was the idea behind the aluminum chassis).

For me there are 6 things that ultrabooks should focus on for now:
Keyboard quality, all that were released except the U300 and the MBA were terrible in that

Touchpad quality, terrible all around, except the MBA

Screen quality, the best panels were the high res ones that the ux31 and the MBA offered. Thankfully the Samsung S9 and the UX32 and UX21 have improved on that.

Connectivity, you have to have some more interest in providing more logical ports, mdp is becoming standard, mini vga will never be one. and it goes on.

Build quality, those crappy acers should die a terrible death, what was all the point for that korean to say that they are focusing of build quality and avoiding the crappy products that they launched for several years? That toshiba was horrible

Thermals, they are essential for all this to work.

 

Acer hasn't released a decent notebook since the TimelineX 3820TG. The S3 was a total piece of crap and gets my vote for the worst ultrabook so far. I don't expect much more from the S5 and am starting to wonder if Acer will even be around in a few years, now that netbooks are a thing of the past.

 

I have a little bit of a problem with the display port not on the same side as the power port...

 

Lets face it: Lenovo has two new business-ultrabooks in their pipeline. The X1 Carbon and the T430u. The X1 Carbon is more expensive, it is even thinner and has lesser ports. It is not the Ultrabook the most businesspeople would buy, because of the lack of ports and the price, but it is an icon. It is an executive-machine. It is their top-of-the-line system.

The T430u however is a Ultrabook thats not so expensive, that have more ports and that is a bit thicker. Thats their system the most people can afford and thats good enough for them. It is more a volume-seller than the X1 Carbon.

That are Consumer Notebooks. The Folio Elitebook is a Business Notebook.

 

I have to agree with you, your 3820tg was one the best models that they ever produced, the sucessor timeline X line was a total flop, the design was definitely improved however, the thermals characteristics were completely abysmal.

The S3 was indeed the worst built ultrabook that came out last year, followed by the toshiba Z830.

I really dont have high hopes for the S5, the m5 received even a lesser rating in build quality than the S3

 

So basically ibmguy is saying carbon fiber is "premium" while aluminum is "mainstream"? Yeah, whatever buddy...that means there's like, 2 premium laptops that I know of AT ALL, the Carbon and the Vaio Z. Expensive does not always equal premium. Premium does not necessarily mean *expensive*.

I'm not saying premium laptops won't cost more than other laptops, but the difference in price between a premium laptop and a good solid laptop is dwindling with the margins.

We're not talking Vertu / Opulence levels of "premium", here. You don't need to be a Russian oligarch to buy one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkB9OT2XVvA

 

The low end ultrabooks are no more than glorified high end netbooks, Thinkpad X120e or HP dm1z types made thinner. Intel is trying as hard as they can to bring low end ultrabook costs even lower. Then you have the premium ultrabooks like the ASUS UX31, then even more premium than that are laptops like the Sony Z which go beyond the ultrabook guidelines. Ultrabooks are premium, but some are definitely more premium than others.

The Acer had pretty low grade build quality, but the Z830 had great build quality. The other Toshiba ultrabook, idk.

Anyways, Intel is pushing for plastic ultrabooks. Which would be even worse than the S3.

Keyboards. The U300s keyboard I might be able to agree with, but the MBA keyboard sucks.

As for touchpad. I'm waiting for my trackpoint ultrabooks.

Agreed. Especially the S9 since its screen is matte.

cough cough full sized VGA and Ethernet. Until we have wireless everything, good connectivity is directly opposed to thin. Some ultrabooks might sacrifice super thinness in favor of connectivity like the T430u or EliteBook Folio, but for the most part, they won't.

Intel is encouraging plastic ultrabooks, so I would prepare for disappointment.

Not really important, but Acer is based in Taiwan.

How? The only problem was the flexy screen, which as an intentional durability feature. My short time playing around with a Z835 left me pretty impressed and there don't seem to be long term issues popping up.

Like connectivity, good cooling is directly opposed to thin. Unlike connectivity, this will always be true. Thus, thicker and better cooling, or thinner and worse cooling (possibly compensated by slower components).

CF, then premium, doesn't mean aluminum, then not premium. It just means CF, then premium.

 

I disagree on the z830/835, they had a flimsy chassis. The Sony Vaio Z2 has a flimsy chassis, I had to return it for being afraid to brake it.

I dont have anything against the macbooks keyboards, they are not on the top, but are far from the bottom.

You may want a trackpoint, never saw the need and never liked it. This is just a matter of taste.

Plastic doesnt translate as worst build quality. Quite far from it. There are plastics that are tougher than steel, imagine how they fare against those soft metals that they generally use, like aluminum and magnesium.

You really nailed it. Not important.

The thinness argument is old and gone. We have engineers to work on those things, they can build, as they have done and will do, thin designs that can take the heat that the system generates (vaio z2 comes to mind).

The x220 is not a thin design and has not so good thermals. Does that mean the lenovo engineers are unqualified? Nope. Some decisions were made, and we suffer from that.

The Sony X had both the VGA and the ethernet port. 14mm thick.

Vaio z2 had both the VGA and the ethernet port. 16.8mm thick 35w tdp cpu.

You have to want it to get it.

 

Eh? The X220 laptops I've seen ran cool and quiet, so I'm not sure why you feel that's the case. Especially considering that it uses full voltage CPUs, it's amazing that the X220 runs cooler and quieter than other laptops using ULV CPUs.

 

the i7 throttling issues.

 

If you look through this thread, you'll find that the issue is resolved using a 90W power adapter, or with the 65W adapter and one of the later BIOS revisions, meaning that it's not a thermal issue.

 

aha! didnt knew that!

 

So build quality == solid feel? What about actual durability, workmanship, etc?

I personally would like to see more of those tougher plastics used in laptops, but those aren't the plastics Intel is referring to. Intel wants ultrabook makers to use cheap plastic to lower cost.

Of course, with the technology made for thin laptops with good thermals, you can make even thinner laptops with bad thermals.

Not important, but the X220 has excellent thermals and runs very quietly. i7 throttling wasn't a cooling related issue.

The Z wasn't very wedge-ish in design. It was 16.8mm everywhere. Non wedge ultrabooks like the Z830 or Folio have no problems fitting in VGA and Ethernet. This is because they are thick. Even though its max thickness is like wedge ultrabooks, they are significantly thicker than a lot of ultrabooks if you look at thickness as more than a number.

 

actually you can see a lot of the older z1 owners complaning about busted hinges and faded palm rests along other problems. The Z2 suffers from cracking chassis.

wedge design or no wedge design you still have a thicker part of the body, dont you? put the port there, as all of those do.

Another thing why wedge design is important?

 

Hmmm, wasn't aware of that. But what about aluminum MacBooks? You could say they have good build quality since they use aluminum and and are dense, which both increase perceived quality, but they aren't very durable computers. My X220 has a lot of plastic and is light for its size, decreasing perceived quality, but has so far taken one water spill, two falls onto carpet, and one fall onto concrete in a bag. What one has better build quality?

Solid feel isn't the only aspect to build quality.

The thickest part of the body isn't wide enough enough to fit the port, or is unable to fit the port for other reasons (hinges, air intake, etc)

It's much thinner than the same thickness throughout design if you look at thinness as more than a number and thinness is what ultrabooks are about.

 

Im pretty aware of how durable mbp are, I have one. As I said to counter the idea of plastic as a bad material choice, it isnt. Aluminum, magnesium are soft metals, and they are going to bend scratch and so forth. Im well aware that the thinkpads use plastics, their strength comes from the roll cage as well.

The thickest part sometimes might be not enough, but they can have it, its just a matter of design choices that are made, not for the wedge itself, but how are we going to layout the ports and so forth, what ports are necessary, and the list of requirements from their perceived consumers have an impact

Im not even going to argue that thin is the idea behind the ultrabooks, performance, battery life, quality ahead of the mainstream machines that are sold as well.

 

I don't think you get what Intel is pushing for with plastic. They want sub $600 craptop tier ultrabooks made entirely of cheap plastic. I like plastic when its used to reduce weight or increase durability, but plastic is not being pushed for that, its being pushed to reduce cost. I doubt using plastic to reduce cost is going to bode well for build quality.

Of course they can have it, unless they want to have something else, like thinness.

What do ultrabooks do better than traditional ultraportables?

Performance, traditional ultraportables are ahead by a long shot since most non ultrabook ultraportables now use standard voltage CPU's. Of course, ultrabooks are fast enough for the slower speed to not be noticeable. SSD requirement helps, but you can always put an SSD in a thicker laptop as well.

With exceptions like the NEC LaVie Z or GIGABYTE X11, aren't more portable, arguably they are less portable since they tend to have larger foot prints due to larger screen sizes compared to traditional 12 inch business ultraportables.

They tend to have shorter battery lives due to smaller batteries, which can't be replaced or extended to increase battery life. Battery life with IB is still well under what I would consider all day battery life, hopefully will change with Haswell.

Quality. Sure ultrabooks are better than craptops, at least until Intel succeeds in their dream of making $500 ultracraptops a reality, but compared to other laptops in their price range, I would say most are pretty much on par.

That leaves thinness. They have to be thin, since otherwise they could have cooling solutions that could handle standard voltage CPU's, and thus they would have standard voltage CPU's like the rest of ultraportables. Intel doesn't want that. They want to sell their ULV chips to someone other than Apple.

 

lets see... sub 600 ultrabooks... none. Cheaper ultrabooks, mostly from HP, and those are in the range of 700-900, materials, plastic + aluminum. BTW the 700 one to be considered ultrabook needs an upgrade

I understand that plastic can be cheaper, not necessarily. What you dont understand is that it doesnt need to be one material or the other to be cheap.

You vouch for thinness more than intel and I. However you can put the connectors as I have already showed you, VGA aint much important aside the business class, HDMI is, or at least mDP. The ultrabooks have those.

its more than quite posible to put the connector, it doesnt matter if its wedge or not.