Thinkpad X1 Carbon 2012

Are you the T410s guy? I don't remember and I suppress sigs because most of them just add clutter.

 

As a software developer the extra cpu power means I'm more productive - reduced compile times, all my tools work faster, profilers in particular are harsh on cpu, etc. 8GB is a must have, I easily consume over 4 GB of ram.

This is very nearly a perfect platform for my needs.

 

Yes, that's me.

I currently run a T410s w/i5-520M, 8GB RAM, Intel 160GB SSD, and a marginal 14" 1440x900 display. So my brain is having a tough time justifying the X1C, but my heart is ready to click checkout.

 

I'm not looking at the Intel specs page right now, but don't some i7 models have 1 or more virtualization features than the others? Also, since i got a Sony vaio z3 which uses a regular power mobile chip, the i7 had a quad core with hyperthreading, so 8 effective cores.

That doesn't apply to the ulv chips in the x1, though, i don't think.

As a developer i wish these came with 16gb ram, as some projects i work on could benefit from that.

____________________
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10%. It's the same processor, with a bit more RAM and a bit more Cache. Basically scales linearly with the GHz. It's more the, "Why did they not offer this?", rather than the, "Ooh my god so underpowered!".

 

I'm glad to hear that it's merely 10% difference.

If one were to trust this PassMark benchmarking software/website, then here are the results:

PassMark Intel vs AMD CPU Benchmarks - High End

i7 3667U @2.0GHz (vs 3.2GHz X1C) 4,016
i5 3427U @1.8GHz (vs 2.8GHz X1C) 3,692

So the test results may not be representative of what processors we will be receiving in our X1C's. Apparently, the X1C's processors are the faster ones of that series. Right?

 

The scariest thing I've read in any of the reviews is TheVerge's comment about feeling the machine vibrate when the fan speed really kicks in.

 

TheVerge's review hardly inspired any confidence in their writing, scientific basis for their review, etc. However, I realize that this is just my personal opinion, my personal take on this.

 

Which corrobates my 10%. But seriously that's with a sample size of 4, I would not trust that.

Besides, the CPU is 10% faster, anything else not, so in reality it will be less. With today's OSes in most cases, the extra caching the OS will do, due to the 8 vs 4GB, will be a bigger performance improvement, in most situations. But this of course only if you are using a 64bit OS.

Why? That's exactly what the X1C deliver too. It's CPUMark, a pure CPU test, not a system test that would include HD/RAM....

 

i understand your point, yet, in the real world, the vast majority of users' RAM usage does not come close to 4gb. hence, the 8gb will have little to no improvement for those folks.

 

I agree that their review was lacking but it does raise a question about how usable the X1C is going to be under normal conditions regarding heat and fan noise. I'm curious how the computer is going to act for those people actually needing the full specs (i7/8GB/256GB). The reviewer kinda scoffed at the issue since they believed most people arent going to use the computer under heavy stress. But from the responses on this forum it shows that there are. The review doesn't make it very reassuring that the X1C will be usable for those people.

 

I don't understand why users who need so much processing power are buying an ultrabook? What line of work needs such a heavy combination of portability and power?

 

I actually completely agree with you. The splitting hairs over IPS vs non IPS, the speed differential between what are essentially identical CPUs (Intel's marketing machine makes them seem much different than they are), the whining about SanDisk, etc. Geez, you'd think everything was wrong with this machine!!!!

For 99% of the population, the X1C is plenty good. The 8GB issue is probably legitimate for some (many of our engineers run a hypervisor, and like more memory), but for a bulk of the people, this machine is really nice. Especially for dinosaurs like me who love the fact that you can drop a Lenovo out of a truck on the highway and it doesn't even scratch

This thread is getting somewhat silly, as people are arguing over marketing minutiae, versus anything that actually seems to matter.

The Ultrabook program from Intel is really about low power and minimal cooling. I even saw someone whine that DDR3 1333 isn't "state of the art" RUFKM... no human can tell the difference.

Fact is, this machine is pretty nice, and will make plenty of people happy. I think the internet is making us all crazy with stupid specs, and meaningless arguments over microscopic details that no one will EVER notice after the second day they have these machines.....

 

Those are the same processors. The X1C Speeds are with "TurboBoost".

 

If you have a 50MB cache hit, it will take 1/200th of a second to retrieve the data. If it were a cache hit, it would take 1/10th second to retrieve the data. The reality is that a 50MB cache hit happens only occasionally and we won't notice the difference between 1/200th of a second and 1/10th of a second. OS disk caching is not a good example of the benefits of having more RAM.

 

I am not going for an X1C, and I also have interest in a Sony VAIO Z.
You do get a full mobile CPU, up to a true quadcore i7, and you do get a lightening fast RAID 0 array in a 2.5 pound machine.

The knocks are a very shallow keyboard, more shallow than even the Samsung Series 9 13", speakers that are almost inaudible (that is why SONY includes earbuds with the Z models, and a very small trackpad (good, but small).

The screen has a very good color gamut, but like the ASUS Zenbook Prime it is less bright than the Series 9 13" by far.

1920x1080 can also be problematic with Windows on a 13" screen.

Tough call between this X1C and a 13" Series 9.
The nod on the screen goes to the Samsung, by all indications head and shoulders above the X1C, and brighter than the Z without the 1920x1080 annoyances in a 13" screen with Windows. The trackpad is very good on the SS9, including right-click and other stuff that the X1C does not have, from what I know. The keyboard nod goes sight-unseen to the X1C, no question. Portability goes to the SS9 easily, with 2.5 pounds in a 13" screen. It fits perfectly in a case for an 11.6" Acer Netbook, putting the size between that of an 11" and 13" Air!!! As for mil spec tests, can't vouch for importance, I don't need a Toughbook.
Support nod goes to Lenovo/IBM.

What else?

 

Has anyone had issues with fan noise when surfing the internet and watching video?

 

Well I just pulled the trigger on the i5/8GB/256GB for $1503. Looking forward to getting this beast!

 

You can't buy i7/8GB so there is no problem!

Heat is going to be an issue as with any ultrabook-style notebook since the Macbook Air.
The Air starts throttling up its fans the minute you do any video streaming or anything else beyond plain web-surfing.
Smaller nm process of Ivy Bridge seems to make little difference.
CPU's produce heat. Put them in a chassis that as 1/2" high with tiny little
fans and they either get loud and/or the chassis gets hot.

 

Me too. i7/4GB/256GB plus 3 year Onsite.

I figure I can upgrade the Memory but not the processor.

I'm hoping to buy an 8GB 1600Mhz SODIMM for it for $50.00 or so from cruicial.

Upgrade from 128GB to 256GB SSD was a rip off though for $280.00

How did you get that price. I see $1859.00 for that config.

 

Just so you know. The memory is soldered onto the motherboard. AFAIK it is impossible to upgrade it.

 

You CAN NOT UPGRADE THE MEMORY !!!!
It has been stated here at least a dozen times in this thread.
The memory is soldered in.
Can't upgrade
There are pictures that prove it.
You can not do it.

That is why they are charging a $280 upgrade to 8GB.
It is the only way to get 8GB now, OR EVER.

 

Yes, you would have better odds of upgrading the SSD than the RAM, post purchase.

 

How did you get that price?

 

How did you get the price down to $1503 with that configuration which is $400 less than regular. Advice on coupons, etc. would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks for the warning. I had no idea. It said SODIMM which is totally misleading. I had no problem taking out more screws. In hind sight it makes sense given the options, price and no access door, but love is blind.

I might go for i5/8GB then, wait for i7/8G or wait to see what T430U looks like. I want that brighter X1 Carbon screen.

Lenovo let me cancel it, with no issue and already received confirmation by email.

 

It's a combination of B&N Gold and Newsletter discount. You can stack those two in certain configurations. i5/8gb/256gb being one of them.

Just go to B&N Gold, activate USXDISCOUNT, then add your newsletter code on top.

 

You already received confirmation of your cancellation by email? I cancelled an order this afternoon and haven't received anything. Did you do it by phone or web chat?

Que me being worried

 

Just pulled the trigger on the i5/8GB/256GB with the 2 year onsite+accident warranty....Total price after taxes $1670. The only thing the Macbook Air has on this machine is the i7proc....everything else is similar...

 

That price is based on the EPP price plus an extra stacked discount obtained by signing up for the Lenovo Newsletter. The newsletter signup is right at the top middle of Lenovo.com.

If you aren't part of an EEP program, you can order through the Barnes and Noble Lenovo Gold Discount program.

 

YES! Finally I have successfully checked out with double coupon @ $990.2!

Failed many times with Paypal, and finally worked with Amazon.

 

I'm trying to cancel an existing order as well. Been on hold for 90 minutes on hold so far and no luck. Yes, I've tried calling different departments and all they do is forward my call to the same number. Not as bad though as the rep hanging up when I said the word "cancel". Now my biggest fear is that I won't be able to cancel and they'll charge me a restocking fee.

Must say the Lenovo phone sales is one of the worst I've ever dealt with. Reminds me to never buy a Lenovo product again with the possible exception of a ThinkPad.

 

I was able to cancel my order via online chat so you might try that route. Although I haven't received any confirmation yet :-\

I have to say I'm blown away by how terrible Lenovo Support seems to be.

Edit: just got my cancellation notification. live chat seems to get the job done.

 

I used Web Chat and I got the confirmation in email before the chat was closed

 

Sure, unless they do video editing and stuff, which meanwhile quite a few do. The same goes for audio. And of course if you are running VMs, which is my issue.

I don't want to do the calculations, but a factor 20 is, in my world, quite nice and a huge issue. Linux, which I run, uses ALL memory, it caches everything, so the more you have the higher the likelihood that what you require will be in there. Talk Firefox image files, etc. But my issue is rather that my machine is swapping, because of many memory hungry(thanks Java) applications and a firefox that often has a footprint of 1GB. If I then want to run a vmware with win7 to edit a file that comes in a propietary format or because visio, msproject and whatever are required, than I would in my base system already be requiring 6GB, currently, I often close stuff. VMs, which many run, also for security reasons or for simluating, are the reason 8GB is super.

I agree that for a normal Windows Office/Email/Web user, neither the i5/i7 nor the 4GB vs 8GB issue is at all important.

And for the next guy who is going to want to upgrade this machine:

RAM: NOT UPGRADABLE
SSD: UNKNOWN FORM FACTOR, SO FOR NOW, ASSUME NOT UPGRADABLE

Should put that in my sig

 

Now engadget is reporting that the Asus Zenbook Prime UX32VD is actually UPGRADEABLE, albeit it is a bit difficult. ASUS Zenbook Prime faces teardown, affords a little expansion in an even smaller space -- Engadget

I like this comparison here by Betelgeuse Orion:
UX32VD vs X1 Carbon

$1300 vs $1500
i7 vs i5
4gb vs 4gb
1600MHz vs 1333MHz
nVidia GT620 vs Intel HD4000
Optimus vs no Optimus
32GBSSD+500GBHDD vs 128GB SSD
1920x1080 vs 1600x900
IPS Vs TN (but I rather have 14" myself)
3x USB 3 vs 1x USB 3 + 1x USB 2 ( is lenovo thinking?)
AGN vs GN Wifi
VGA/HDMI vs Display port

plus for $200 more you can add a 256gb Samsung 830
and for maybe another $100 more replace 4gb with a high-quality 8gb stick of 1600mhz RAM.
...not to mention you may be able to sell the current 4gb stick & HDD's for about $75 total.

Not bad, $1300 + $300 - $75 = $1525 for i7/256gbSam830/8gb1600mhz/1080pIPS

I'm only worried a bit about the trackpad (keyboard is much improved they say) and the fact that it doesn't even have the touchpoint.

 

I think he was speaking to the "vast majority" of users, who will likely be using the X1C as an ultraportable business tool for web/email/office/general media consumption. For those users who will be doing CPU- and RAM-intensive work like heavy duty video editing, I don't think any current ultrabook would be particularly well-suited. With its full-voltage CPU, perhaps the X230 would be a better pick, although its screen resolution is a bit limited.

 

I can tell you from my experience with the 2012 MBA, there will be no issues running a VM or doing some video editing on the carbon. The 4GB RAM Carbon has enough headroom to run a VM with any operating system I can think of. The same is true for running many of the video editing tools. There should be no problem doing some light editing and encoding.

If someone needs portable quad power for encoding, or lots of RAM for virtualization of several VMs, there are plenty of machines from Lenovo, HP and Dell that will support those scenarios.

When this topic comes up, it's usually a concern from someone that can only afford a single machine. As far as I am concerned, the T430 is a better choice for a portable powerhouse.

 

@Thors.Hammer: Oh, I agree completely on that point. I've said before and I still believe 4GB of RAM and a Core i5 ULV is more than enough for 95%+ of users, even for most of those who think otherwise. I've run a VM on my T500 (Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM) with no issue at all, and I've done my share of intensive processing work as well.

 

Just to make sure, I agree with your opinion. I was just answering the guy why anyone would require 8GB, and some just do, though this are not the standard users. That's all. The 8GB will work fine for me too. The 4GB I have now, is very often annoying due to swapping 1-3 GB, the system then becomes unusable for 15 secs when switching applications, while it reloads the swapped RAM from the SSD. (I am using a X301)

 

Nice, a fellow Linux user! My current machine has 16gb. After a lot of work, I'll sometimes be using up to around 12gb between the real in-use memory and the cache. (Running more than one VM for testing versions of IE (eww) will really chew through it, but that's not the only way).

Of course, tricks like tossing your game into a ramdisk before playing are fun, too...

I'd say I 'need' 8gb, but only 'want' more. I can understand a normal user doesn't need that much memory, though.

That screen is amazing, and upgradable ram? If it had a trackpoint, I'd jump on that one.

 

You'd have to move over as I would also be jumping on it, if, together with the trackpoint, there would be a great keyboard

 

I always thought Lenovo had the leading keyboards in the market?

 

If you aren't part of an EEP program, you can order through the Barnes and Noble Lenovo Gold Discount program.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

 

Aeh, that's what I implied with "if, together with the trackpoint, there would be a great keyboard". Lenovo makes the best keyboards.

 

My brother just got his X1 i7. He upgraded the RAM with a 8GB SODIMM and upgraded the drive with a 7mm 256GB SATA. RAM was not soldered. SSD is not unknown but a standard 7mm SATA.

And for the next guy who is going to want to upgrade this machine:

RAM: NOT UPGRADABLE
SSD: UNKNOWN FORM FACTOR, SO FOR NOW, ASSUME NOT UPGRADABLE

Should put that in my sig [/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE]

"X1," or "X1C?" If the new Carbon, does that mean the unit now has 12GB RAM, or 16GB?

 

Troll....

 

[/QUOTE]

I'm almost certain he is talking about the first generation x1 and not the recently announced X1 Carbon.

 

At about 13:40 in this Video Review she shows the Windows 7 Experience Index

She said this is on a i7/4G Model

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon Review - YouTube

My old T420 with an i5 (I assume second generation), 8GB, 1600x900 Intel Integrated graphics and 5400RPM drive is about the same or BETTER on almost everything

T420/i5 vs X1C/i7
CPU 7.1 vs 7.1
RAM 7.4 vs 5.9
Aero 6.3 vs 5.9
3D 6.3 vs 6.4
HDD 5.5 vs 7.9

Why is the RAM so much worse? Why is Graphics Worse? Why is 3rd Gen i7 the same as 2nd Gen i5

It's perfectly understandable it tromps my 5400 drive.

Are the ULV i5/i7 that much lower performance?

Perhaps amount of RAM effects Windows Index?

EDIT: Amount of RAM does effect RAM index.