Thinkpad X1 Carbon 2012

Both, Windows and Linux use all available memory for disk cache.

What I was responding to was your post indicating that 8GB of 4GB of RAM will improve performance greatly because the OS can cache more.

Now what you're saying is that the extra RAM will help in scenarios where you're running VMWare, or other large programs.

They are two different scenarios. The only way that the OS disk cache would provide a noticeable benefit with the extra RAM is if you're utilizing most of your RAM already. But that's because you're using high memory usage applications. OS cache, alone, will not perform better with more RAM in almost all cases.

As my sig says, I have 16GB of ram in my X220T. My average utilization is 12+GB due to VMs.

 

I just ordered the base model at the double discount price... And buyer's remorse is already settling in!

I've been eying the X1 Carbon since its announcement, and chose this model, and Levono, due to the known Linux friendliness, keyboard, and build quality. And of course, the weight and anti-glare were the real deciding factors.

I went back and forth so many times on which model to get, but felt the base model should be fine for my needs, and the savings from not getting the beefier i5 with more ram and ssd I can put towards a new desktop.

I just want this system as a main system (until I deem it time for a desktop), for web browsing, image editing, and basic office stuff. Hopefully I won't be disappointed. Of course, had they offered the system fully spec'd out with i7/8Gb, I might have just gone for it. However, with this being my first laptop, I figured I shouldn't go too spendy, and the $1K price seemed nice enough. Though, it still stings.

Here's hoping I don't get it and hate enough to return it and eat the restocking fee. Or, better still, here's hoping Ubuntu 12.04 runs as smoothly on the system as it is certified to do on the X1 (non carbon).

The only worrisome things are why the system ranks so much lower than similarly spec'd ultrabooks in the graphics department and PCMag's review stating that after booting, the 128GB SSD dropped to 54GB. Hopefully that number will double once I strip it of everything but Ubuntu. If not, then I don't deem it usable.

 

Could be a driver issue, not sure though whether the "worse" is statistically speaking significant and even if, it really does not matter much. The WEI is really not a good index. People like numbers now they have them, but what the numbers mean, nobody knows. Forget these numbers.

You probably have the 2520M, which has 35W TDP.
That is more than double the power the ULVs use.
According to passmark the 2520M has about 3611 while the i7-3667ULV has 4011(though there is a low sample size)
The goal of the X1C was NOT, to make a faster laptop than the T420, but a lighter one for medium performance tasks. Please everybody finally understand that. And this is why it does not have a quick SSD, which is what people will feel most likely feel most, not the CPUs.
The CPU is about the same power as the 2520M, but uses HALF the power. The innovation is in HALF the power.

If you want to compare the X1C to something, take Lenovo's last serious attempt at building something like it, take the X301. And it has gained about 4 times CPU power compared to my ty lady Though the X301 has a 10W TDP CPU

Yes it does.

It has really been discussed a gazillion times in this thread. This is a machine, that can do medium lifting, it is not a quad core HT with 8 threads, it does not have the fastest SSD AND that is not what it was supposed to be. Already it has been reported she has heat issues, imagine she had a 35W CPU, enjoy.

So, THE REAL QUESTION, is what do you need?
Watch 720p video: fine
Use Office: fine
Webbrowsing: fine

Everything else will work too, just be a tad slower than on higher performance machines.

For those that cannot parse the word ultraportable:
It does not mean ultrapower and portability.
It means ultra portability, while compromising a bit of power.
You cannot have it all, besides an IPS, but then ppl would have crowed about the price or whatever

So if you want power, get yourself another machine, the sony with its raid0 in dual samsung 830 looks like the best, if you can live with the keyboard.

If you want something extremely portable with a bg screen so that you can work on documents etc and do not need to compile 100kloc C++ code(though I would even then), then consider an ultraportable.

But stop complaining about ultraportables not having the power of the non-ultraportables, that is their purpose.

A MBA does not have the power of its bigger cousins either and no laptop has the power of a desktop machine, complaining about that is tedious.

Check what your T420 is marketed as and compare it with what the X1C is marketed as. That is non-technical straight forward English. Both machines have their respective sweetspots.

 

For your usage, you do not require ANY 3D nor high powered graphics. You can run Ubuntu with all its beautifications, KDE or whatever. I am doing this with a machine that is 2-4 times less powerful than the X1C.

Yes you will have ~119GB(due to SSD's own error correction etc) once you wipe the disk.

Don't worry, even with the lowest-spec version, the difference is only about 4% CPU speed, not HD or anything else and you will never feel it much.

 

Windows does the same thing. It's called Standby. Windows just doesn't report the cache in the memory usage unless you view memory usage in the resource monitor.

Windows 7 memory usage: What's the best way to measure? | ZDNet

 

You might want to read up on Windows 7 and Windows 8 64 bit edition memory management. Windows has been using all available RAM for a long time now.

 

Maybe Lenovo is restricting performance via bios to control temps.

 

We are quite OT, but others asked about VMs too, so...
I can only speak for Linux, as the behavior for Win7 etc has changed.

Linux will cache even your VM disk images, if it has the RAM.
That means your Windows guest image "harddisk" will run completely in RAM of the host. This is not VMware using a lot of RAM, I could not even configur them doing so, but rather the linux kernel seeing a lot of usage of this file and keeping it completely in RAM. I am sure you understand how this would speed up everything, especially if the guest system thinks it has to swap or accesses its harddisk extensively.

Your avg utilization after a bit of running, would always be 100%, Linux uses all unused RAM for caching, always.

 

You're awesome. Thanks for the reassurance! I'm an eco kind of computing person, and have used for the past couple of years a Viewsonic mini PC with only 2GB ram, an even lower spec'd ULV processor, and though I have a 256 HDD, I still have 125GB left! So, you're right, I should hopefully be fine... And maybe even a little blown away! The only issue I really have is shuttering of movie/YouTube watching, but that should remedied by the HD4000.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

Ubuntu stickers ordered from Canonical and ready to be applied!

 

They finally caught up with Linux in that regard
I use Win7 just for gaming and it is quite nice.

 

You are welcome.

Yes you will be blown away. My machine can without discrete graphics decode 720p no problem. 1080p is right at the edge and stutters sometimes. The X1C should have ABSOLUTELY no problem with any of this.

 

Windows utilizes all the RAM as well. But it reports RAM used for cache as free so you know how much is available for your programs should you need more. To see the full utilization, you have to view the RAM usage in the resource monitor. There the RAM will be 100% or near it after using your laptop for a bit.

 

I recommend keeping the discussion on the X1 Carbon. This isn't a Windows versus Linux discussion thread.

 

I was really set on replacing my X220T with the X1C. I really wanted the 1600x900 screen, but i feel let down with the 1 year warranty (after getting my hopes up for a 3 year) and the premium they are charging for the SSD and RAM upgrades. Sigh. I gotta make up my mind soon!

 

few questions.. what model are you talking about - the X1 or X1C?
what intel chip did you get?
and where can that discount be found?

thanks.

 

Regarding the lack of space left on the SSD, there's a few things you can do to mitigate it.

Windows users can gain about 11GB back by scrapping the recovery partition. They can gain additional space back by enabling NTFS compression.

 

hmmm, i think you quoted and replied to the wrong person

 

In the same boat... I'm sitting on a Canadian coupon for 24% off which is valid until the end of the month.

 

Hmm...the only technical/ergonomic reasons(that I see), why you would want to upgrade are the looks, weight, form factor, backlit keyboard, maybe slightly better screen, anything else?

Performance is about the same, could even be a tad worse.
The T410s display is supposed to be good, no?
You can upgrade your SSDs to the Samsung 830 beast.
Flexibility with ultrabay and different battery packs.
...

Personally I am very much looking forward to "throwing away" 8 power adaptors

I saw it mentioned somewhere, are there any news on them providing stick-on adaptors for the "old" 20V powerbricks?

 

Oh, I meant the X1 Carbon with the i5-3317U processor (the cheapest, first of the four base options, with no additions). As for the discounts, I just said "double discount" for the B&N Gold discount (link) stacked with the Lenovo newsletter discount (link). It dropped my price by about $250, I think. Not a super huge savings, but enough to get me to bite. Though, from what I gather, Lenovo has sales constantly, so you may even find a better deal down the road. I just wanted to order something before I changed my mind again, and felt spending $1K was my safest bet. I mean, if it's too slow and I can't live it, then I could return it (eat the restocking fee) and upgrade. Or something like that.

 

Yes. You're right. Sorry.

 

Yeah it's a tough call...

The T410s screen sucks - it is the only gripe I've ever had with the machine. I already had a bay battery (my most frequent config) and a HDD tray adapter. I also have a few 90W adapters and 65W I keep in my bag.

I weighed my T410s with the bay battery in at and it came to 4.1875 lbs.

PS - the T410s uses 1.8" drives, limiting choices...

 

i'm just looking for the base model too and wanting to stack some discounts like you did. is it free to register via both B&N, or is a purchase required? thanks.

 

Indeed, it is free. I registered, and upon logging in was able to select/customize the base model, add it to my cart, click "activate ecoupon" and once activated, I applied my newsletter discount code. Apparently this stacking of coupons only works on the B&N site. I didn't even realize the B&N deal was a "student" discount until I checked the link again, as no details were asked.

Just make sure the newsletter you signup for is the one I linked you to, from Lenovo's main site, as the one that pops up on the B&N site is only for 5%, and they're tied well to the email address you provide.

So, with the B&N Gold discount of 17% and the newsletter discount of 10%, the two combined make for a decent discount on something that's not even out yet. The only bummer is having to pay tax. But, at least shipping is free! My total came to something like $1053.

Happy shopping.

 

1. The T410s 1440x900 screen is ok. Certainly better than the T420s 1600x900 screens
2. The Samsung Series 830 SSD is SATA III and the T410s is SATA II and uses 1.8" drives. I don't think Samsung makes that form factor with the Series 830. You would have to use the Sammy in the UltraBay SATA II bay.
3. Yep, the Ultrabay rocks
4. Lenovo has so far failed to disclose an adapter from the old barrel to the X1 Carbon rectangle

 

Very true on the SATA2 vs. SATA3 limitation, but there is also a physical size limitation as the T410s uses a 1.8" form factor.

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a X1 Carbon i5/8GB/256GB...

 

thanks so much! first did the B&N discount and then entered the 10% coupon code i got from the lenovo email. pre-tax my total is $1,039 but i haven't finalized the order yet. the only upgrade i did was to a 2 year service depot warranty for an extra $39.

do you know if you can cancel the order before it ships without any charge? this seems like the best deal we'll probably see until the holidays and even then it might not get much better.

 

24% off coupon? Most I've been able to get is 20%. Any chance you could share that one with us? I'm in Canada too. Lowest I've gotten for a configured $1350 model and some peripherals is $1080.

 

Sure, here you go.

Computers & Electronics : Lenovo: Up to 24% Off ThinkPad Laptops | Toronto Deals - RedFlagDeals.com

BTW - I was pricing a i5/8GB/256GB so the price hits the threshold for 24%.

 

Probably a dumb question, but here it comes... (may be someone else could benefit from this)

Given the same usage pattern and that the i5 and i7 are both 17W TDP would their battery consumption theoretically be the same, or would the i5 fare better due to lower clock speeds?

Secondly, what impact would the difference between 4GB and 8GB RAM have on battery consumption?

 

YES, ULV is much lower performance... Thats how they get to be ULV


RAM does effect WEI, but in this case, its the speed of the CPU's Memory Controller. Its slower too, just like the rest of the CPU

 

TDP is max consumption, not real world per se. Their battery consumption should be relatively the same.

As far as memory, More Memory = More Battery Consumption. RAM drinks power... period. It also works the CPUs memory controller more, as it has to paint data across a larger range, and then go find it.

Ain't no free lunch, especially from the BS Intel marketing spin department

 

Where did you find it's valid until the end of the month? I can't find the date anywhere...

 

I've highlighted the expiry. Hope that helps.

 

Hot Hardware's pretty in depth review of the X1C. They found the Sandisk SSD in it to be pretty snappy. They did mention that the 1333MHz memory bandwidth may have given it a slight performance hit compared to 1600Mhz though. I know some people in this thread were mentioning that before and got called out on it. Maybe they were right?

I'm glad to hear the display is good, though they did mention the similar "dot pitch" that Engadget noticed between pixels....but editor's choice!

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon Ultrabook Review - HotHardware

 

Thank you for sharing that link with us. your right, it is very thorough, I really liked the summary and conclusion part.

 

Nice review. Although yeah, yet another mention of the visible pixels. Hmm.

Anyone know what Lenovo's return policy is?

Also, how do you guys think this unit would handle AVCHD video editing?

Thanks...

 

Interesting to me that the above 2 posters mentioned their concern for the 2nd reviewer mentioning the pixel masking.

My take on this HotHardware review is quite the opposite:

from the way it was written, I took it to be a "net positive"!! This is what I mean -- this reviewer is essentially saying that in virtually all circumstances, he didn't even notice it! When pressed, he could see it.

This is actually good news for me.

Again, chaque un a son gout.

 

À chacun son goût !

 

This is awesome, thanks s0dhi.

24% in one stop, I like it.

 

Both the B&N Gold and the one time coupon do not seem to work with both the i5 3317U/3427U models with 256 GB SSD?

 

Days away from this thing being shipped out. Anyone know where Lenovo typically ships out of?

 

First, thanks for the kind words on the review, urbanglowcam and DualMonitors. I'm glad you found it useful. I'm Dave from HotHardware.com, the site's Editor in Chief and the one who wrote that review.

DM, you hit the nail on the head with respect to that re-translation of my sentiments. I was seeing feedback online about the panel but fortunately didn't find that information until AFTER I spent a solid 3 days working with the machine. When I took time to peer at the LCD a bit more closely, I could see what folks were talking about. Did I notice it personally before I was made aware of this? Absolutely not. I really like the panel. It's not quite as nice as some of the IPS displays out there but it's pretty good and I personally like the matte finish on it.

And yes, the DDR3-1600MHz memory does make a slight difference in performance with high bandwidth scenarios like gaming, where the CPU's integrated graphics core needs to be fed as fast as possible. But then again, are you really going to game much on this machine? I hope not.

Stop by our site more often. Good to have you folks with us!

Thanks
Dave Altavilla
HotHardware.com
HotHardware - Tech, Computers, Gadgets, Reviews, News and Analysis

 

Wow, thanks for the input on this! Would you recommend this for a graphic designer to use Creative Suite software from Adobe? I don't have to have the best display on the market. I'm coming from a glossy, mediocre TN screen on a Samsung QX410. From pictures and what I've been hearing, the X1 Carbon's display seems perfectly fine.

Like you said, I don't expect the viewing angles or brightness of the IPS on the Asus Zenbook Prime, but I realize it's above average. How will the HD 4000 handle programs like Photoshop or Illustrator? Thanks.

 

Can someone on here with a home NAS chime in and tell me if that's a viable option for someone looking at the 128GB but has a lot of media?

 

I think you'll be fine with Photoshop and Illustrator on this machine. The SSD will offer solid responsiveness during heavier operations in these apps. I would definitely get the 8GB RAM variant though. You're stuck with what you get from the factory with no upgrade path. RAM is soldered to the board. Good luck!

 

Yep! Already ordered the i5 / 8GB / 256GB configured model. Hopefully the display lives up to what I've been reading. Better than your average TN display but not quite to the level of a PLS or IPS.

 

I'd say that's about right. 1600X900 res is pretty much perfect in my opinion on a 14-inch panel too. Enjoy!

 

I'll kick myself when this gets marked for spam, but I just really wanted to say thank you to all the folks that have been contributing to this thread since the beginning (and to the newcomers to a [slightly] lesser extent). I've been reading since page 10 or so, and you all have helped greatly in following the development (and sifting through the absolute garbage from some reviewers, leaks, etc). I've 'pulled the trigger,' and am quite excited.

I wish some of the newer followers had searched the thread a bit more to reduce the (lately) large amount of re-posting/silly questions, but that's nothing new.

Thanks again. (Specifically: Bronsky, Midnight, Psuedo, Thors, Urban, and many others whose names I have forgotten)