W-Series vs. T-Series Thinkpads

Hi all,

I've been scoping out the Thinkpads for a while now and feel like I'm extremely close to making a purchase. Well, that was until recently. I was reading another thread and someone mentioned to the OP that he or she might want to consider getting a W-Series Thinkpad if a 15.4 inch screen is what was desired. According the that person, the W's offer slightly better performance. I visited the website to see if I could find a difference and, to me anyway, they look extremely similar to the T's in what they can do. So, I wanted to ask someone who obviously knows more than me about the matter, what is the real difference between the W's and the T's (besides the W's higher prices)? Does one truly offer better performance than the other? Does one do something (or many things) that the other cannot? Is there any advantage or disadvantage to choosing one over the other? Any info would be much appreciated.

THAANSA3

 

W series has the next-generation intel chipset on the motherboard, which means marginally faster CPU's, and DDR3 memory (also marginally faster than DDR2, according to most benchmarks). The biggest positive change, IMHO, is the LED backlit screens. They are brighter and clearer, according to most reviewers. On the negative side, many users have complained (loudly) about flex in the W-series keyboards. They are flimsier, and backed by plastic, instead of metal. Note that some peeps do not mind the flex at all. Both the lines do the same things, and at about the same speed, if the specs are similar. I would probably get a W-series at this time, for the better screen, and more software/driver support in the future (they tend to phase out the older models pretty quickly in the laptop world). But if there were a large price differential, and your 3-d world last name isn't Trump, the T's will do a good job for a good while yet...

 

Hmm, the newer T-Series models have the new technology (T400 & T500). I think you may be thinking of the T6x models. Nonetheless, I hear what you're saying. I, too, am interested in the brighter screens but not enough to hinge my decision on. Also, in regards to the keyboard issue, many on here talk about the ability to change out the newer T-series keyboards with the older ones. Do you know if this is possible with the W-series models?

Another concern and, pardon me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that the T400 and T500 do not have the rollcage. I want to believe that I read wrong information, however. Can anyone give me the right information?

 

t500 and w500 are identical except for the graphics card and screen options. The w500 has actually been cheaper at times depending on what sale is currently running.

 

W500 = T500 + professional graphics card + option for 1900x1200 screen

W700 = monster machine

For keyboard, I replaced my T400 keyboard with a T60's keyboard, much firmer. Of course you can tape a few cushions at different spots underneath the T400 keyboard, where they touch other components. I am pretty sure it will do the trick.

I bought a T60 keyboard because I like keeping keyboard new. So when the T60 keyboard gets worn out, i will tape my T400 keyboard.

 

I see. Do the W-series Thinkpads have the rollcage?

 

Where does it say the W500 has an LED option?

 

"=" = equal, same, identical, regarding or affecting all objects in the same way... according to Webster

So yes, for example, same rollcage, chipset, CPU generation, DDR3 Ram, same flexish keyboard, speaker, weight...


And regarding the graphics cards, the only differences between W500 and T500
1. Extra 256MB graphics RAM
2. Optimization for professional graphics software.

They share the same chip. That extra 256MB doesnt make a difference if you use it for entertainment. For less demanding games or 3D applications, the extra memory is not useful. For more demanding games, the chip is the bottleneck.

I hope this helps.

 

Now I am going to throw you a bomb to delay your decision. Have you considered T400 vs T500?

T400's best video option is at most half the power of best of T500 but T400 offers LED backlit screen. It is very bright.

I picked T400 because I don't intend to play games on it, I travel much, and I have a powerful desktop hooked up to a HDTV at home . But I still kept the more powerful switchable graphics on T400 cuz of my greediness nature.

 

I agree, although if you don't play games on it and travel a lot, you may be better severed by the x200 or x200s (depending on your desire for price/powerful processor or weight/LED WXGA+ screen respectively). This is the decision I made (although I opted for the tablet due to the increased functionality and IPS screen) as I have a triple monitor desktop workstation for gaming, graphics work, and hard core multitasking.

 

That x200t must be a nice machine. I used a x24 back in the days as the only machine for 3 years. I loved carrying it.

But after using a T42 w/ SXGA+ screen for 3 years, I cannot go back down that much on resolution.

 

I've begun looking at the T400 models. I never considered them because I was always sure I wanted a 15.4" screen. I'm pretty sure that's what I still want.

 

Wonderful that you are firm on your decision. I am sure 15.4 screen would be really nice. You will get spoiled by the real estate of that screen. I certainly miss the 1050 vertical pixels.

Get to large ram eventually (either 3g from lenovo directly or 2G x1 and another 2g x1 DIY later depending on your braveness)

Don't get turbo memory. It has very small value now, and in a year or 2, everyone will move to SSD and you certainly dont need it. I wish I didn't get it.

Given the amount of resolution on T500, I recommend getting the switchable graphics, cuz I doubt that intel integrated graphics is 2 year future proof for your screen

On other options, pick as you wish

 

Ooops! You are correct - I was thinking of the T61 generation. Those that are still available should be discounted fairly well compared to the newer models, so I thought that was what the question was about. Looks like the difference between T and W on the new models is like between the T61 and T61P in the earlier ones.

 

Yeah, that does seem to be the recurring information. I thank you and everyone else who has taken the time to share with me. I read the website and just couldn't figure out what the differences were between the two. The way it looks for me right now is T-series (most likely T500).

 

Like others have eluded to, the main reasons to get the W500 is the high res WUXGA screen and the most powerful graphics.

 

Yeah. I was interested to see if there was more behind the W-Series, but I really don't see where it adds anything over the T-Series for what I'm going to be doing. I guess that means I'm going to continue taking a hard look at the T500. If I decide I want a smaller screen, I'll give the T400 a lot more consideration as well.

 

I went with the W500 because Lenovo wanted to honor the t61p order they killed on me with the w500. I probably would have prefered the t500 because I did not need the OpenGL graphics, but they honored my price and matched it practically exactly. where things didn't match

Is the W500 "better" than the T500? They are the same computer optimized for different users. As far as price goes, the upgrade options cost less for the W500 than the T500 especially if you have the employee discount. [At least when I was investigating a price match a couple weeks ago and the sale was still a tad more than I paid.] Remember that the W also comes with more "upgrades" standard like the WSXGA+ screen I love so much and the C2D T9400.

Actually that is a difference right there. The lower voltage Intel 8400 and 8600 cpus are only availble on the T500. The W has "just" the 35 voltage C2D's like the 9400.

 

Actually, I was on their website earlier today and the T500 models can use the T9400 and T9600 processors.

 

That's not been denied. It was only said that the P's aren't available for the W-series.

 

w500 is the best!

 

I take it you have one? I'm glad you're enjoying it and can endorse it. I still haven't completely closed the door on a W-Series, but I am leaning more toward a T-Series at the moment.

 

A very interesting thread! I have a similar 'problem' myself. Looking for something solid with high resolution and performance graphics. My choice so far was t61p vs. dell precision m4400. Thanks to this thread I added w500 under consideration although I am not sure if I can get it here in Poland. Getting T61p is also very hard. Anyone want's to throw something on m4400? I discussed is with m4400 users on this board but wonder what is lenovo users opinion too?

 

I'm looking at these two also, then low and behold Asus launches some nice 15 inch models with LED screens...check out the specs (this is a great vendor btw)

http://1toppc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=SRCH&Store_Code=GPS&search=N50

 

Put another way the only reasons that I would stay away from the W500 and got for the T500 would be that I wanted a low res WXGA screen, did not want my battery power eaten up as much when running discrete graphics and if the price was not in the range I wanted.

 

ASUS laptops and the Thinkpad machines are really not comparable though.

 

This 14 inch LED new Asus has performance though over the T400...I have an Asus now, and I would rate it as Good or better... http://1toppc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=N80VN-B1

 

I've heard of Gentech but never ventured to their website. Thanks for the link theZoid.

Both the ASUS and the Thinkpad has its pros and cons. I'll try to list them out. The price range for both is about $1500.

ASUS
Pros:
NVidia graphics with 1GB memory (I read that their drivers are better although the 9600 series card should match the ATI 3650 performance wise)
LED Screen! (Although Lenovo did come up with the LED screen for an extra $50 today. The res is only WXGA though)
HDMI
ESATA

Cons:
Heavier (6.5 lbs)
Still using DDR2 for memory
It's not a Thinkpad (Although some might argue with the quality nowadays)

T500/W500
Pros:
Latest Technology (DDR3)
Matte screen (Personal preference, really)
It's a Thinkpad (I find that thinkpads have SUPERIOR cooling technology compared to other laptops. I can't imagine typing on a laptop that has a hot palm rest. That's my main gripe whenever I use someone else's computer that isn't a Thinkpad)
Lighter (5.8 lbs)

Cons:
ATI GPU (less memory)
Lacks HDMI and eSATA (Only DVI, has higher output Res but no Audio)

 

The T500 and W500 are pretty much identical, they both have switchable graphics and the same discrete GPU (though the W model is the workstation model, better only for those using apps that take advantage of it). I wouldn't consider DDR3 a pro for Lenovo but a con since it has no performance benefit but has a higher price. Also, memory amount doesn't mean a thing for GPUs past 256MB. It has to do with the bus width (I believe both are 128-bit) and the GPU model. However, the 9650M GT is far more powerful than the HD 3650. Asus also has poor battery life due to the GPU taking up a lot of power. The GPU also makes the weight heavier since a heavier cooler is needed.

 

Yep....performance goes to the Asus....they have an N80 also in 14.1 inch LED basically same specs.

 

So am I hearing that Asus is better overall or just in some aspects?

 

Thanks for correcting me. I was just taking a wild stab in the dark with the GPU.

 

I would say in some aspects (i.e. the GPU now that has been clarified). I find it hilarious on how they added the air ionizer into the N50 series. Seriously? I mean to purify the air to promote blood circulation while working near your laptop. I kid not that's one of the reasons listed on the specs for the laptop. I could imagine that it would cause more problems down the line. Will it take up more power to ionize the air? What if the ionizer fails would the cooling system fail as well? I just feel like that is smth they could do without in a laptop.

However, it's a new line of laptop and it's not even out so there are no reviews available. Other things to consider is the build quality. My gf and I both own the same Thinkpad and it has been functioning well for the past 4 years. Given the choice I would probably still choose the Thinkpad.

 

That's entirely inaccurate. The W500 does NOT have switchable graphics, and offers a better discrete GPU.

 

Other forum members have confirmed that the W500 has switchable graphics.
Cheggit: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=4053083&postcount=8

 

Wow, I guess that confirms it. Although, I read the data sheet for the W-Series and it makes no mention of switchable graphics. Thanks for the link.

 

Can someone, in layman's terms, explain to me what having a bigger GPU memory means to the performance of a notebook? I've tried to do research on it myself, but it gets confusing? Is having a graphics card with 512MB really that much better than one with only 256MB? Also, how much more of a hit does your battery take with the bigger GPU?

 

More graphics memory helps if you work at really high resolutions (1920x1200+) and/or you are running programs like CAD/Maya that can render very large objects. For games and 2D performance, memory is not that important.

Every GPU is different on battery life. The nice thing about the new T series (and I guess W as well) Thinkpads is that they have switchable graphics. This way you can switch to the energy efficient and adequately powerful (for Vista/Video Playback) Intel 4500 MHD when on battery, and over to a RADEON or FireGL when you need performance or are plugged in to the mains.

 

Thank you for sharing that info with me.

 

I love it when people make completely false statements.

 

I was able to find out that the W-Series does, in fact, have switchable graphics. I'm just glad that I was able to find that out.

 

Okay okay! I originally said:

I now see that the W500 DOES INDEED have switchable graphics. My bad (as well as Lenovo's, since it's not properly specified on their lagging Web information). However, there's no question that the W500 offers a better discrete GPU. So Jayonhavok, 1 false + 1 true does NOT = "completely false", therefore, your post is "completely false".

 

How is the W500 a better GPU? The V5700 is based off the HD 3650 and has the exact same clocks. It's only more finely tuned for certain programs.

 

You're absolutely right. The information still does not appear on the website. I had to dig and dig and find pictures to finally see that the W-Series has switchable graphics. That was extremely annoying.

So, are you saying that the two, in essence, are the same thing?

 

From what I know of the two, yes, they seem to have the same hardware base. I would like to know from people who are in the know what specific differences are there other than the openGL optimizations.

 

Same here.

 

The T500 and the W500 are basically the same. The hardware drivers are the same for both T500 and the W500. See for yourself at the Lenovo support site here: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-70443

The only thing that is different is the GPU memory and that mobility FireGL branding which I think is a little bit on the hokey side since there is no official announcement from ATI that the V5700 exists. And if it does exist it is still based on the HD3560 which is in the T500. So in conclusion, hardware is completely the same except for more GPU memory in the W500.

 

You answered this for me in another thread, so I thank you again. This information makes my decision a bit easier, I think. I'm not an engineering or architecture student, so I would never be using anything that I would need the larger GPU for, unless it somehow affects Blu-ray playback in any way (which I'm sure it does not).

 

I hope I'm not too late here, but on the desktop side of things the FireGL cards differ from their desktop counterparts by also utilizing more of the monitor EDID (take this with a grain of salt, because not every manufacturer has a standardized extended display set.) FireGL V5000 series [PCI-E desktop] can output 8-bit, 10-bit, and 16-bit directly (digitally, not on a D-SUB) per RGB component to match the color engine on a monitor so no resampling is done by a third party [monitor hardware] to cause colorimetry issues during and after calibration. The 3000 series, does not include this feature and uses the generic VESA DDC2 standard for output (which boils down to relying on a consumer RAMDAC for your analog signal resampling and altering your RGB from the source, so I suspect your D-SUB would also suffer)

 

I was just kidding... In hindsight, I was an ***. sorry!