W510 Build Quality

I'm considering purchasing a W510 as a desktop replacement. I have prior ThinkPad experience but haven't owned one in some time - my last one (still running) was a T43p. It goes without saying that the build quality of ThinkPads is second to none - I've put the T43p through a lot (drops, man-handling it from all corners, and a couple of spills) and aside from a couple of replacement parts toward the end of the 5-year period that I've had it has held up better than I could have expected.

What especially impresses me about the old ThinkPads (my T43p included) is the toughness of the chassis. The plastics they used were thick and solid, without much of any flex. I could lay my 5-pound T43p flat, pick it up by the edges of the end of the screen and shake it without feeling like it was going to break (and without any operational interference). I also love how the case on my T43p has a bit of a rubberized feel - and despite the rest of it being plastic, as I mentioned before it's a very solid plastic.

So my question is, how does the build quality of the W510 compare to the older ThinkPads (namely the T43p and comparable models)? How much, if any, has Lenovo deviated from the overwhelmingly solid construction that IBM made standard? Here's a video that I think anyone who considers responding should have a look at and consider - fast-forward to 1m 48s if that link doesn't do it for you. Notice that reviewer talks about the textured plastic of the palm-rest being extremely cheap, light-weight and flexible. The mushiness of the keyboard, as the reviewer claims, also concerns me. In fact, I just bought a replacement keyboard for my T43p and noticed that, despite being brand new, was mushy and difficult to type on (it often missed keystrokes and required me to depress the keys much harder in order to register the input) - I'm not sure if I got a faulty model or if it's the new standard with Lenovo. I'm also a bit confused given the outstanding quality of the X301's construction - I don't remember there being such discrepancies when IBM ran the show, and through the transition.

I'm a huge ThinkPad fan, I can't say that enough. With my prior experience, and the positive reviews I've seen in the past, I would choose it over any other brand. I'm also very impressed with the specs on the W510, which is why I'm considering it - practically maxed out it far outperforms my other consideration (MacBook Pro 15" i7) with a very similar price-tag. But the build quality that I'm used to is a major factor for me. If Lenovo has cut back on the construction then I will have to reconsider my interest in purchasing their products.

So I appeal to W510 users to confirm or deny my assumptions so that I won't regret my decision. Thanks!

 

the top case of the screen for the T43p is made of Magnesium alloy, while the bottom case uses the CFRP material. The Top case of the W510 is now GFRP i think, and the bottom case is still the same CFRP material, while the internal chassis uses the full Mg alloy rollcage, which the T43p did not have.

The overall strength of the laptop has actually increased compared to the T43p. But the fit and finish of some parts is not as good, but this is in line with the huge price drop since Lenovo took over.

Don't worry about that video, mine T400 doesn't do any of this. I will post my version of the video end of next week, dis-proving everything that person have showed in that video.

There were 3 manufacturers for the keyboards, and difference between them is quite large in terms of feel and response.

 

I cannot press the palmrest enough to make it bulge. When picking it up at the corners, there is no significant cracking, it does not bend, I don't have the feeling it's gonna break.

I don't have a T43 to compare it with, but I'm sure as long as you don't get a lemon (like the guy in the video) you should be fine.

(Unless, of course, you're obsessing with built quality, and it gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling that you could run your thinkpad over with a truck in case you had to.)

 

Had a T40, used it for 7 years, until I replaced it with a W510. Couple thoughts.

My T40 was almost bullet proof. It took over 6 years before I started to get any creaking at all under the palm rest (creak developed over the DVD drive and a little bit of a rattle under the right arrow key). I dropped that sucker a couple times and scuffed the finish, but that's the only damage it picked up.

The W510 is different. It's clear the IBM/Lenovo teams have gone through a couple design iterations since the T40. The W510 is more plasticky, which was a little off-putting at first. There's a clear creak in the left palm rest between the sticker cluster and the speaker. At first it drove me crazy, kind of like the sensation of having lost a tooth--just can't leave it alone. But then the increased Prozac kicked in, and I'm okay with it.

My left speaker buzzes with certain frequencies--usually on youtube videos. It's annoying, but not a deal breaker.

The keyboard is a little mushy. It's a strong contrast to the clacky keyboard of the T40. The T40 keyboard was a little looser and provided more tactile and auditory feedback. Drove me crazy at first, but again, I got used to it pretty quickly. Now I'm typing just fine.

After a couple months with the W510, I'm very comfortable with its sturdiness. I no longer feel like the one creaky spot means it's fragile. I lean on my palm rest just like I used to with the T40 and nothing moves. I'm pretty confident this computer will hold up pretty well.

So, in a nutshell, the T40 was a little more polished, had a little tighter finishing, and gave me a little smile when I used it--for almost a year, I'd catch myself grinning over how much I liked my computer. Aside from the mild finish issues, my primary problems with the W510 were that it was not my T40. Once I accepted the differences and got used to the way things were done on the W510, I'm pretty happy with it. The keyboard is great--I actually really prefer the new Delete and Esc keys. The screen is terrific. The new horsepower makes me giddy.

I don't catch myself smiling about how much I love my computer with the W510, and that's because it's not quite as polished, not quite as finished as the T40 was. But it costs only $100 more than the T40 did, which adjusted for inflation is a heck of a bargain. What's important, though, is that I trust this computer, just like I trusted my T40. It's sturdy, over-engineered, and beautiful in that thinkpad way. I'm glad I bought it.

 

Fit and finish seems to be the issue then. I don't know why Lenovo didn't put the extra time into taking care of these things - cutting the creaks, dropping the inferior keyboard manufacturers, etc. Maybe they're like my old barber who started cutting my hair a little longer than I asked for each time so that I would come back for the next one sooner.

Anyone know of any good video reviews of the W510? Would love to see someone put some pressure on those key places - would love to do it myself but there aren't any ThinkPad vendors in AZ. I look forward to seeing your review on the T400 though, lead org.

 

I recently had a R400 replaced by Lenovo due to palmrest creaking. The whole saga is on some thread here which you can look up if you wish. The replacement machine that I got is solidly built with no flex of any kind. Only goes to show that two machines of the same model are (can be) quite different in build quality.

The keyboard of my former machine was more clicky that the the one on the new machine and frankly, I find the new one better. As lead_org mentions there are 3 manufacturers of the keyboard and it depends on which one you get. I should mention that there is bit of a flex in the new keyboard but nothing that irritates. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, the new keyboard is more comfortable. It is also possible - as I have learnt on this forum - to buy the solid backplate keyboards and replace it yourself. These you can often buy from ebay or other such places. I know for a fact that you can also buy them from Lenovo as long as you give then the appropriate FRU number. I had ordered on for the machine which was replaced.

What I'd like to reiterate is what lead_org mentioned. Maybe that guy on the video got a lemon, which is always possible.

 

It is not that Lenovo don't put the time in, since Lenovo contracts out the manufacturing to third party contract manufacturer. It is more of a case of how much leeway they allow the manufacturer to have before it is considered a defect as part of QC process.

Having more suppliers allow you to be more flexible in terms of whom you purchase from, and it also prevents supply shortage even if one of the manufaturer gets hit with a production issue. It also gives Lenovo more bargaining power for their parts purchase price. This helps to lower the price on your Thinkpad. You just to have a look at the whole FHD shortage and i7 CPU shortage problem, to get a comprehensive overview on the need to diversify your supplier base.

 

I got a t510 and yes the keyboard does flesh a bit (mainly when I press hard on the left arrow) and the plastic flexes a bit when I press on it (like around the finger print reader) but I still find this laptop a lot more durable than most. What I love about it is the fact that it always remains cool no matter what I do. My friend has an Inspiron and although the plastic is thicker it heats up my desk like an oven.

 

Almost every plastic notebook on the planet has some flex. Those who think that it affects the overall build quality should consider switching to "full metal jacket" systems.
I find the build quality of W510 sufficient to keep the system among the best in the business segment.
Personally however, I'd prefer a metal notebook even if it's slightly heavier. **Spoiled Alienware fanboy*** :laugh:

 

Very true. It would work out better for consumers if there was more uniformity in the quality of the parts produced by the different manufacturers, but there's no doubt that it's largely in the consumer's favor to have that kind of diversity.

Speaking of which, do you happen to know when Lenovo will make the FHDs available for the W510 again? If they had them now I would likely have bought the system days ago. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later.

 

I'll second that - not necessarily steel, but something more rigid than what I'm used to seeing. I could care less about weight for a desktop replacement, I just want it to be built like a tank, inside and out - seems Lenovo greatly improved the former, but went a ways in the opposite direction with the latter (there's no doubt they're among the best, but I would rather see them outdo themselves than merely outdo their competition).

 

i am not a Lenovo employee or a person working for Lenovo in any capacity, so i would not know this sort of insider information. But i would imagine it would take long before the supply is back again, otherwise they would be losing a significant amount of sales to the competitors. This is a potent lesson why you should have more than one or two suppliers for part.

 

Good point. How do you like your W500, by the way? Do you know how the W510 differs from it? And how does the T43(p) compare to the T400/s?

 

an excellent machine, much better than the T61p that i had.

The W510 has 4 ram slots, quad core, gpu is also better (but no switchable GPU), 16:9 LCD format, other things are more cosmetic change than anything else. I will get the W510 end of year or start of next year along with the T410. Also the W510 become slightly thicker with the use of the ultrabay enhanced drive, which is a good thing in my opinion, as this allows a larger heatsink/fan to be put in.

W510 has changed from the top case magnesium rollcage to using the Glass Fiber composite.

 

Have you seen the apple macbook pros? They're cool and tough looking, but I've seen a few dropped ones and the corners bend permanently, whereas on thinkpads the plastic doesn't tend to (permanently) deform, unless it breaks outright. Plus the macbooks are pretty heavy for what you get. So, I'd say I'd prefer a plastic-ey exterior, even if the metal one looks tougher.

 

yes the macbook pro is not that strong when it comes to impact resistance.

 

And while a metal exterior may look tougher, unless they've put an endoskeleton under than metal exterior (does anybody do this, or do they all rely on the metal exterior to be tough enough), it's actually not as durable as a plastic shell with a the endoskeleton. The endoskeleton serves to suspend things in a fall, so the flexing in the body is not happening to the components inside. As I found out, a running T60 that is writing to its hard drive and reading from a CD can fall 6 feet onto a tile floor without breaking.

 

Also you can replace the exterior pieces as the internal chassis protects the components that did not crack.

 

I think my W510 has excellent build quality as far as I can test. I can apply pressure on various parts, type, open/close the lid and so on. However I won't test what happens if I spill water, drop it or anything similar. So without videos of the W510 at the Lenovo testing facility those issues will remain a secret until someone has those accidents happen to him/her.

I don't care wether my notebook is made out of plastic (most helmets are made from plastic and it is a more high tech material than most people believe) or metal as long as it is sturdy and protects my notebook.

 

polymer composite material has become more and more common now, as the material engineering and science improves. Now many gun parts are made from polymer composite.

Also, Pelican case are made of polymer and it is pretty strong compared to regular aluminium case.

 

Iv'e owned a T43 before and now i use a T510 at the office which i think is similer to the W510, the quality of the T43 is at least 1000 times better than T510 we have in office and anyone who says otherwise is just a Lenovo fanboy.

 

1000 times? Clearly an over the top exaggeration. Can you explain how you come about with this figure? or substantiate your claim? or was this the largest number you could figuratively use...

In terms of fit and finish, the old T4x thinkpads is superior, but it wasn't as strong as the later thinkpad with the internal magnesium rollcage, which is why the detaching GPU and Southbridge was so common in the T4x laptops.

 

As long as we are throwing out complete conjecture and anecdotal evidence, my T410s feels as good or better than both my old x31 and x61. I will say that my sister's T400 felt a little cheaper, but was still very solid.

 

oooh, i wanna play! My 14 inch T43 on the outside still feels more solid than my 14 inch standard screen T61p. My X61t exterior also doesn't feel as solid as the T43. And sadly, my new thin T410s feels the cheapest when compared to those three...the plastic used for the speakers and palm rest feel paper thin. However, i'm sure the rollcages will protect better than the T43 inards...but fit and finish, the T43 pwns.

 

lead_org I knew you would be the first to respond and I know why of course! and yes IBM's were at least 1000 times better or even more...

 

2200 times!!

Shouldn't somebody close this thread as it degenerates into the usual IBM-vs-lenovo discussion? I think the OP's question was sort of answered.

 

You're right, it has been answered. The interior bolstering (magnesium roll-cage) of the W510 (and recent Lenovo construction) is a full step above the T43p (and older IBM construction), but the fit and finish on the W510 is a full step below with the thinner and softer plastics.

I don't expect to drop my notebook, but it brings me comfort to know that it will sustain it if I had the W510. But I come into contact with the aesthetics daily, which makes them a priority for me, and the W510 is a downgrade from the old ThinkPad lines in that respect.

For that reason I will be skipping over Lenovo this time around. If they address the fit and finish in future notebooks then I will gladly purchase from them, but until then I wouldn't feel comfortable giving them a penny. I have no doubt the W510 would hold up well, but it's a matter of principle for me - they took a step back with quality, so I will take a step back from considering their products.

The highest quality fit and finish that I've seen on a Lenovo was the X300/X301, which unsurprisingly got more tha 72% of the vote on Lenovo's blog for " favorite ThinkPad since the Lenovo acquisition" - goes to show how important the exterior is to notebook users.

 

You're a terrible troll...

Anyhooo, lead_org is pretty often pointing out the flaws of certain thinkpads over the generations as well so he isn't that good of a mindless fanboy.

 

It is hard to decipher your reasoning for everything, since you don't speak your mind or provide any sort of evidence to backup your claims.

I love IBM Thinkpads and i love Lenovo Thinkpads, i don't like consumer laptops even if it is from Lenovo. So there you have it.

i would like to hear the reasonings behind the 1000 times better claim, or are you going to disappear for a few months again.

@illmatic, you can't compare the T43 with the X61, since they were built with different purposes in mind. You should compare the X61 to the X41.

 

I understand that..even worse was that i was comparing a X61T tablet, but from a fit and finish point of view, the materials on the exterior of the T43 just feel more high quality. I love my Thinkpads though.

 

A high quality fit and finish can give a perception of higher quality material (but it doesn't mean that the quality of material used is any better). Also, i do like the T4x top magnesium outer cover, everything else remained the same between the T4x and the T6x.

There is a price to be paid for a lower purchase price, and fit and finish is the price.

 

I for one care not at all about fit and finish. There is only one thing I care about - how does it perform. If it has the feel of a lesser fit and finish but is more likely to continue working after a hard fall, I prefer it. Nobody expects to have their laptop take a fall. That's exactly how it happens: by accident. And when it does all the fit and finish in the world won't save you if the motherboard is fixed to the shell and was hot when the fall occurred.

 

@marlinspike this is so true, which is why the Toyota Troop carrier and the Land Rover Defender still looks the way it is. They may not have the looks or the fit and finish of the BMW X5 or Audi Q7, but i am sure they are superior to any of these when it comes to real off road driving.

 

I'm well convinced that most ThinkPad enthusiasts would be willing to pay a few hundred dollars more for improved fit and finish on such a high-performance and otherwise solid notebook like the W510.

If Lenovo made a notebook with the performance specs (CPU, GPU, and LCD in particular) and size (though preferably 16:10) of a W510, and the fit and finish of an X301, I would purge my entire collection to have it. I hope they come around to doing that in the next year or two.

 

No doubt about that. Apart from the behemoth Toughbooks it seems Lenovo has all competitors beat out in overall toughness. While the older model ThinkPads (as tough as they were - my T43p has survived numerous falls) were not as tough as the new ones, they did have a better fit and finish. It's reasonable for Lenovo to further emphasize one and scale back the other in order to keep cost relatively stable (if not slightly more affordable), but I don't think it's reasonable to cast fit and finish aside in all models. Surely they could match the advantages of the current with the former and release a series/model or two with the same toughness and a dramatically improved fit and finish - and cost isn't a factor considering how much they've invested into the W7x0, which prices between $2600 and $7000+. The W510 starts at $1600, and if they offered a sub-model with fit and finish improvements to the tune of a few hundred dollars I don't think they would lose as much interest as they would gain.

 

For that reason I will be skipping over Lenovo this time around. If they address the fit and finish in future notebooks then I will gladly purchase from them, but until then I wouldn't feel comfortable giving them a penny. I have no doubt the W510 would hold up well, but it's a matter of principle for me - they took a step back with quality, so I will take a step back from considering their products.

Coswyn. Out of interest, have you decided which model you'll be buying.?

 

I'm considering a few, but I haven't decided yet.

I would be lying if I said I'm not still interested in a couple ThinkPad models - namely the W510, T510, and T410s - but they were bumped down a notch in my consideration list after more fully deliberating the exterior build quality.

I'm also looking at the 15" and 17" i7 MacBook Pros (high resolution, antiglare). The similarly discrete aesthetics (though clearly of a different style), beautiful displays (especially on the 17" i7), high-quality speakers, and top-notch fit and finish are strong draws. But there are some drawbacks: the sharp edges around the palm rest, the substandard toughness (compared to ThinkPads), and the absence of a TrackPoint (which alone is close to being a deal breaker ).

It's a tough choice, but I expect to make it in the next month or so and will be sure to review whatever I decide on as extensively as I read reviews of it before hand.

 

i don't quite understand your principle. It is not as if Lenovo is overcharging you and giving you inferior quality.

 

Enthusiasts might be willing to pay more, but having observed the feeding frenzy over coupons, EPP codes, sales, outlet prices, etc, the general public is just out for a deal. And big business will try to shave as much as possible over what they pay.

 

This is so true, and i am one of them. Have even considered moving to US so that i could get cheaper Thinkpads (well maybe half jokingly).

 

Yep, one thing that's interests me is how many people voted for the x301 in that Lenovoblogs poll, yet if the internet is any guide it doesn't seem like they're selling too many of them. Heck, I voted for it, but balked at the price.

 

i would never have got the X301 if i had to pay for it, since it was over 3000 dollars for entry spec when it was first released in Australia.

 

No TrackPoint is a deal breaker for me...and that single huge mouse button

People voted for the x301 on the blog because it was the best option of the five...if there was a None of the Above, I'm sure it would have gotten alot of votes too.

 

exactly.   consumers want X301 build quality and features at an X100 price.

typically you can have something:
- high quality
- inexpensive
- delivered quickly

...but you only get to choose two.

 

i choose hiqh quality and inexpensive/low price.

 

I think:
-high quality
-inexpensive
-high config
are more reasonable

 

"high config" would fall under "high quality".   asking for this quickly is usually unreasonable unless you're willing to pay for it (which knocks inexpensive off the list).

most people aren't willing to do high-quality work quickly for very little pay.   i know i'm not.

 

high quality is not high config. At same price, you can choose a Thinkpad T (high quality) with decent config, or a Asus/Acer with very high config, but questionable quality.

 

by high config I think you mean high performance. That's how the saying typically goes.

High quality, High performance, Inexpensive, pick 2 of the 3.

 

I would assume that usually, but not necessarily, "high quality" and "Inexpensive" are mutually exclusive.