X1 Carbon Gen 2 (Haswell)

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated. With regards to the "haze" and anti-glare coating, was there any difference between the non-touch and touch models? Does the non-touch have less haze? I am curious how it compares to my current X1 Carbon non-touch in this regard. Do you have any experience with the Gen 1 non-touch to make a comparison?

Thanks again!

 

The non-touch model has no haze at all. I think the haze (or screen door effect) comes directly from the touch layer that is added. Keep in mind that I am keeping the touch model and returning the non-touch model, so it is not hideous - at least to me. I have seen the last generation X1 carbon screen and in my opinion, the x1 2nd gen, with non-touch, is a significantly better screen.

I am not seeing much of an improvement in battery life with the i5-4300U that is in my non-touch model over the i7-4600U in the touch model. I thought it would be like the MacBook Air where the slower and more efficient i5 processor would get 20-30% more battery life than the i7 model, but doesn't seem to be the case. My usage is mostly powerpoint, web browsing, email, etc. I can set the CPU to 50% in the power profile on the i7 model and routinely get 6 hours of usage. I checked the voltage and the i7 model seems to remain at a lower voltage, at least until I run anything that is CPU intensive.

I set my windows resolution on both laptops to 1920x1080 instead of 2560x1440 because it is easier on my eyes when using applications that don't support HiDPI correctly. With remote desktop to any Win2008/2012/Win7/Win8 platform, you can set the scaling on the remote computer. You do this the same as you set it in Windows 8 (each platform is slightly different and with specific caveats). The problem is that when you log in directly on those remote machines (no RDP), or when another user logs in with the same account, everything will look gigantic. As I said, in a work environment, the 2560x1440 native resolution is borderline useless...

If the non-touch i5-4300u model had significantly better battery life, I would have kept it. As is, the i7 touch model is better for my usage case and so that is the one I am keeping.

 

Thanks again for your detailed comments. Given equal processors, would you have kept the touchscreen?

I don't see the touchscreen fitting into my usage of the X1C. In my case it's a business laptop running corporate/business applications, which are almost universally not optimized for touch. And I don't see that changing enough during the lifespan of this laptop to justify the "cons" of the touchscreen.

 

Do you do any presenting of visual data to clients? I.e. not on a projector? If so, it might be useful.

I wouldn't get a touch panel either, just playing devil's advocate.


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This has been mentioned already but the touch and non-touch also differ in how the display appears. The touch has an edge to edge screen whereas the non-touch has a black plastic bezel around the screen. Wish there were more pictures showing the two.

 

my friend got the X1 Carbon Gen 2 with 1600x900 from work, and he can get about 8 hrs on a single charge. Obviously the WQHD IPS sucks quite a bit of battery.

 

just got my x1 carbon from UPS.

And my first impressions. Coming from a T61 for the last 6 years, and borrowing my gf's macbook pro for the past 8 months. And wow, this is the sexiest laptop I have ever laid my hands on. It's built solid for such a thin machine. I'm getting lots of oohs and ahhs from my coworkers. Some further impressions later when I get home! But so far, I am impressed with the size and weight. It's like carrying a folder.

 

Ecsrun: You had mentioned you thought there was some software reason why the touch was running longer. Does anyone know of any software upgrades for the non-touch?

u0330v: Is the bezel a big deal?

Anyone have opinions? I have one of each on its way, and curious to know what to look for, what were dealbreakers, etc?

 

Did anyone try upgrading the SSD? Is it just the m.2 format? I'm trying to decide if I should config it with the cheapest ssd option and upgrade later or get the right ssd size from the get go.

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SSD is M.2

 

Did anyone do a clean reinstall of windows 8.1? or did you just manually delete the bloatware?

 

Can anyone confirm if the non-touch also has the "anti-glare" coating? I'm finding mixed reports.

 

Went back and checked. Sorry if there was confusion, but my non-touch model was actually an i5-4200u. The i5-4200u does not have the intel CPPC technology, and yes that tech may help when the machine is idle to achieve a lower power usage idle state. If you force the voltage to be roughly equivalent by playing with the max processor setting and using a tool like prime 95 to stress the CPU, you will find that the i5-4200U gets about 1.5Ghz sustained frequency out of .750 volts. The i7-4600u, with around .740 volts is able to push at a sustained frequency of 1.87Ghz. I don't know if this is just due to the better binning of the i7 parts or what, but it also held true in the battery life testing that I did using the web based peacekeeper tool.

I ran some tests on a T440s that does have the i5-4300u and the intel CPPC tech. That machine was able to sustain a similar frequency/voltage ratio as my x1 carbon with the i7-4600u (.740 volts for 1.87Ghz sustained). This is my totally informal take.. but the i5-4200u does not appear to be as efficient as I hoped it would be. The i5-4300u and i5-4600u seem more efficient in controlled testing applications.

With prime95 running, the T440s (i5-4300u) and x1 carbon touch (i7-4600u) end up 'self' throttling down to 2.3Ghz after 20-30 seconds of testing. The point I am making here is that the turbo boost, while useful for short term gain, is unlikely to help much over the i5-4300u for a long compile operation. Not sure the price jump for the i7-4600u is justified.

All of the machines that I am testing are stock Lenovo installations with the latest patches and windows updates applied. I am kind of torn now.. i5-4300u seems like the best 'efficiency' / 'price' ratio compared to the i7-4600u and i5-4200u.

I can echo the comments made here about Haswell only providing a significant boost in battery life for mostly idle workloads. For example, with prime95 maxing out any of these devices, they barely will get 2 hours of battery life.

I am seriously considering a T440s so that I can get all day battery life via the 6-cell option without babying the device in to a mostly idle state. It gets annoying to close down browser tabs that have flash / ads running just to make sure my CPU stays idle. Would be awesome if Windows 8.1 had the App Nap technology that Mac OSX has.

I have attached a picture of the Intel CPPC settings in case anyone is interested. I really don't think they make a huge difference in anything but the most 'idle' workloads.

 

That is interesting information, Ecsrun, thanks for the update. Seems like the wait for Haswell wasn't really worth it. If it wasn't for the screen door effect, I'd consider buying a Gen1. I just got my non-touch. Touchscreen one is on the way, haven't decided yet which to keep.

Anyway, just got mine today and here are some quick thoughts. I had bought a Sony Vaio Pro, but will likely sell that.

Sony Vaio Pro 13:
Pros:
Amazingly small and lightweight. Like on another level.
Body flex wasn't that annoying after a few days
Small charger with built in USB charger!!
Sleek design, nice lush screen

Cons:
Totally flat keys with little travel.
Page up and Page down is a two finger exercise, with both hands needed (the ultimate deal breaker for me and why I am selling it). Makes web surfing annoying.


Lenovo X1C non-touch gen 2 (just got it, have only had for a few hours)
Pros:
Good solid build, upscale feel.
Keyboard is as good as I remember.
Screen is amazing! Love the 14" Love the color quality compared to the X1G1. I don't see a screen door, but haven't loaded Word yet (X1c1 biggest offender)
Page up/page down well located
Adaptive keys row is a cool gimmick. I don't miss the old F keys, but the new row doesn't do anything for me either. Works okay.
I use an external mouse mostly, but I didn't mind the touchpad too much. I like the click action, and it didn't feel as flimsy at the bottom of the pad (where the pad met the chassis) as the original X1. Didn't try any gestures.
I haven't installed it yet, but was told by multiple people that this machine can accept a Gobi internet card, so hopefully I can get Verizon connectivity without a hotspot.


Cons:
I need to keep the screen on 80%+ brightness, and usually have it on max.
I HATE HATE HATE the backspace/delete key. Getting used to the keyboard is a little tricky after the Sony, but made especially annoying by the delete key's placement. I've hit the delete key more in typing this message, than I've hit it all year on my desktop. I think I'll eventually get used to it though. My fingers are finding it more accurately as we speak.
The size of the machine is nice, but not mindblowing. I'd hoped for more size/weight reduction after a year of waiting.
2 USBs. Thought it's rare I ever need three, so not a huge deal.
Would have liked a memory card reader, but not a huge deal.
Wish charger (and cords) were smaller. Wish charger had usb on it. Not sure why companies don't consider a charger to be a part of a portable computer's size and weight.

I'll have more to say once I am up to speed. Haven't started attacking the bloatware yet and not sure whether to do a full reinstall or just manually delete.

Conclusion: If it were not for the screen door effect on the original X1C and X1CT, I would gladly have gone back to the X1 gen1. The gen 2 machine is nice, but I expected more after a year and a half of research and development. Backspace/delete key will be annoying for people that switch between the laptop and desktop daily.

 

I posted some pics here:

Flickr: ecsrun's Photostream

 

Thanks ecsrun! Great information about the processors and battery life. I think you're right on with App Nap doing wonders for battery life. For example, the 13" Haswell MBA has a 54Wh battery while the X1C Gen 2 has a 45Wh. No doubt the 20% larger battery helps the MBA, but I think it's App Nap pushing real-world life to 10-11 hours.

And thanks jcb193 for comparing to the Vaio Pro. I have experience with the Vaio Pro 13 also. It's a very nice piece of kit, but I don't think it's the best laptop for my use. Is there an anti-glare coating on your non-touch?

 

Awesome! Looks like that touchscreen is much more reflective on the lights than the non-touch. Unless it's just the camera or angle.

 

I only mentioned this because of the issues with the first generation X1C having a gap at the lower right side of the bezel, as described with pictures on the Lenovo Forum, link here.

I've also been to a Microsoft Store where I witnessed this issue first hand with the X1C 1st Gen that was on display. (Side note: On this demo unit, a chunk of the film on the display screen was cut off. From what I saw, I believe someone was trying to see what it looks like underneath and see if that would improve the screen door effect. As I recalled, from running my finger on the edge of the cut film it was pretty thick and didn't seem like something that could be easily removed. This was several months ago, sometime last year, though. I hope the Microsoft Store will have the X1C 2nd Gen on display so I can try out the adaptive keys, which could be a deal breaker for me.)

I haven't heard anyone mention the X1 Carbon Gen 2 (Haswell) having this problem so I've hopeful the bezel issue has been fixed. Still undecided on which one I'm leaning toward, but I don't think I'll be using the touch screen very much, so we'll see.

Thanks for all your input, I've enjoyed reading your thoughts on here.

 

Does anyone know how much customization under the hood is available?

My thoughts are it's possible to get a good amount of storage into this machine, if you don't have a WWAN card installed is it possible to

1) install a half mini intel wireless card into the WWAN half mini slot
2) Place a full sized mini pci-e card where the WLAN card was
3) replace the original m.2 drive with a larger SSD

Will any m.2 drive work? I don't know much about m.2 but I believe the format is compadible with both the pci-e and the msata formats/controllers. But then I heard lenovo used a port that only supports one of these?

 

Hi ecsrun,

Saw that u have the X1 Carbon touch, non-touch and the t440s. Of these three machines, which do u favor most?

 

Build quality on the T440s is suspect... rough edges, the frame is literally bendable. Considering the size of the T440s, upgrading components comes to mind, except they made it very difficult to take apart without damaging. The X1 gen 2 (both touch and non-touch) seem to have better overall build quality. They just feel more premium. The real draw back on the X1 is the adaptive keyboard and bizarre keyboard layout changes.. Really wish that Lenovo would have just kept the keyboard of the X1 1st gen.

Overall, my vote is for the X1 carbon touch model. The non-touch model that I received has a very loud trackpad 'clicking' noise (defective?). I use the touch screen when I am sitting on a plane or reclined back in a couch to scroll through long documents for reading. I can keep the screen closer to my face by holding the laptop closer so I find this useful. I know that T440s and X1 carbon touch is only 0.4lbs difference, but it FEELS like more. I think that 3lbs is really a sweet spot for ultrabooks.

 

Really appreciate the info. I'm really torn between the touch and non-touch x1 carbon.. How significant is the weight difference? The x1 Carbon non-touch is said to be 2.9 lbs and touch version 3.4 lbs. I think I'll prefer it to be lighter than having touch screen which I'm not really sure if I would use too much. I want to get the non-touch for the lightness but if it's really indistinguishable touch would be better of course..

 

This review says the touch is 1.411 kg or 3.11 lbs.
Review Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon Touch 20A8-003UGE Ultrabook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

 

Wow, that is awesome. That makes my decision so much easier! Thanks.

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The NotebookCheck review has a lot of great information. I've been agonizing over touch vs. non-touch, and I'm going with the touch. Looks to be decent outdoors, which is important to me.

I'll report back with thoughts (especially on the film/screen door/haze) once it's delivered.

 

Why touch? Just curious.

 

I just ordered touch. I'm not sure how much of the touch screen I'll be using but I decided to go with it anyways because at the same price there doesn't seem to be much compromise. My main concern for going with touch was; first, weight, the official website says it weights 3.4 lbs which is much more than non-touch, but it seems like it's actually only 3.11 lbs so the weight difference compared to non-touch should really be negligible, 2. battery life, ecsrun reported battery life is almost identical between touch and non-touch although that might be because of his non-touch version having i5-4200U. Regardless, I don't think there would be significant battery life difference.

So with the two compromises being negligible and price being actually cheaper (for i7), it's just safer to go with the touch version. Also, looking at the pictures ecsrun provided, I much prefer the look of the touch version where the bezel seems to be hidden (it just looks like one big screen).

 

Agreed with everything above. I prefer the touch aesthetically and can imagine a few situations where it might useful to have, although most of my business applications are not touch friendly. I've read everything I could on both screens and I don't think there is a "right" choice.

I'll gladly post pictures and answer any questions about the touch when it's delivered. My configuration is the touch with 4600u, 256 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, and integrated WWAN/GPS.

 

Having used a hybrid for over a year now I Think its great to have touch on a "laptop", not only because its "new" and cool but also for ergonomic resons as I switch seamlessly between mouse and touch and work less monotonously.

 

Is anyone else having an issue with Bluetooth? My Bluetooth will intermittently not turn on after a restart...Device Manager shows an issue with the device but after a complete shut down it seems to come back. Today it took a few restarts to get it back. I reloaded the driver but that didn't help....trying to figure if it's software or hardware. Is there anything special about the Intel N7260 WiFi + Bluetooth card in this unit or could I just buy the same model online and swap it to see if it's a hardware issue?

 

hi everyone

Just have a few questions regarding the x1 carbon's thickness and the 3G wwan module.

I notice from most reviews that it uses the sierra wireless WWAN for US customers while other countries tend to use the N5321.

Wireless Devices - Reference Guide

I'm from Singapore and the frequencies used for wireless data are 900mhz, 1800mhz and 2100mhz (3G) and bands 3 and 7 for 4G/LTE

1. I found the info guide on this sierra module and it supports all but 4G frequencies, does this mean I can use the sierra wireless module for 3G sim cards issued in Singapore?
ThinkPad GOBI 5000 Mobile Broadband


2. If I get the N5321 module that is used by other countries, will it work without any bios hacking or tweaking since it's included in the "whitelist" (listed alongside the sierra module)


3. thinkpad lists this laptop as 0.55" compared to t440s 0.80" thickness. but youtube reviews seem to show the t440s being much thicker in comparison to the x1 carbon.

anyone has both laptops (x1 carbon haswell) to compare?

 

The carbon tapers so it feels thinner. The t440s is uniformly thick.

 

Hi Supercharged,

I am from Singapore too! From what I know, Lenovo Singapore does not bring in Sierra Wireless Module. The only option available to us is the Ericsson H5321gw.

Are u planning on importing the laptop on your own?

 

Had the same issue, went fine after I've loaded the driver 3.1.1309.0390 from the Lenovo support page.
Additionally I've unchecked the option "computer may switch off the device" in energy management.

Now everything is fine

 

I loaded that driver again last week so I am good there. I just unchecked the power management and hopefully that does the trick...thanks for the tip!

 

UPDATE
My current order just got delayed 2 weeks, so it will be going on 8 or 9 weeks since my original order if the current dates hold. Hands down worst buying experience ever. Dell is a dream compared to this.

 

Yeah, i haven't been impressed with the turnaround on this device. My order was on 2/25 and it finally (after two delays) shipped out yesterday. Expected delivery on 3/25. So that's a full month.

I, too, was told that there were manufacturing problems, apparently a shortage of parts. We can't be mad about that or the popularity of a new device. It is what it is. Or maybe they took a play out of the Apple playbook, to educe supplies on purpose to increase demand. heh

 

Installed Windows updates this morning and had the same issue after a restart so I don't think the driver or power setting is it. Mine was fine for over a week at one point so I would be curious to see if yours stays working. It seems to only show up on restarts for me vs. a fresh boot up in the morning (which seems to always work).

 

I can confirm the channel delays to major US distributors. I ordered 3/17/14 and our distributor received only 10 of that model on 3/19/14 to their California warehouse and mine shipped earlier than anticipated. However, the big inventory deliveries to various distributors/warehouses are showing ETAs of between 3/30/14 and 4/5/14. Unless Lenovo ships directly from overseas, this is probably when you'll see it get shipped. Of course, this only applies to TopSeller models. CTO units come from Lenovo directly.

 

Is anyone else having issues running Photoshop CC? I have the top spec'd X1 (I7, 8 gb RAM, SSD drive). But the ruler in Photoshop keeps rendering incorrectly with the numbers overlapping and disappearing. It also said I didn't have enough virtual RAM to run 3D mode.

Any tweaks I can make to fix these issues?

 

Do you have a pagefile? I remember that Photoshop always used to complain if you didn't have one. As far as the display glitches are concerned, that's the price you pay for that high-resolution display. Windows does not handle scaling for such displays well, and there's a good number of software packages (professional applications, typically, such as CAD/CAE software, and a number of Adobe products) that become borderline unusable on such screens.

As a consequence, if it's for professional use, then my recommendation is to stick with standard-resolution LCDs. The high-resolution ones are nice if all you do is browse the web, or look at pretty pictures, but they're a nightmare if the application you need for your work does not scale properly.

 

Just another note on why you may want to customize your own rather than buying a pre-built model, I ordered a non-touch (highest res) i7-4600 with 512gb ssd at the very end of February, original estimate was 25th, they changed it to 28th, actually arrived on the 20th.

Haven't finished setting it up yet, but I'm trying it out with Ubuntu 13.10 and gnome-shell. Seems to mostly work, thought the battery estimate was only 3 hours, I only took it off power for a few minutes though, I'll play some more soon could be that it needs to run for longer to get better data on how much power it consumes (I had checked basically just after installing a bunch of updates and programs and restating the machine a few times), if it actually is 3 hours, I'll probably return it. (Though I'll also probably try other flavors of linux to see if they are less taxing on the battery or something first).

The adaptive strip for F keys are a little annoying, but I think I can live with it (even though I'd put serious money on me using the F keys more than 90% of the population (I'm a web developer, so I hit f5 a lot and also still use alt+f4 a bunch)).

 

I'm also running Ubuntu 13.10 and I listed a few tweaks you might be interested in here: curmudgery: Installing Ubuntu 13.10 on Gen 2 (Haswell) Lenovo X1 Carbon

I think I'm getting about 5-6 hours, but I haven't done much disciplined testing. The remaining time estimate is not reliable, especially until you've gone through a few cycles.

Very interested in hearing more about your experience with it. My only real issue at this point is getting two external displays to work with the Onelink Pro Dock.

 

I have had the same luck with pre-built and custom. BAD. My pre built never got sent to manufacturing and the shipping date disappeared after a month of waiting. So I cancelled (at Lenovo's suggestion).
The custom order delivery date just pushed back 2 weeks. At least it went to manufacturing. Even though as far I can tell, it's not being manufactured.

Waiting Waiting Waiting

***Update*** I received an email this morning with shipping notification, then 3 minutes later received a different email stating one or more items are delayed. But there's only one item on the order.

 

I'm planning to buy the base non-touch model with two upgrades - 8GB and WQHD screen. Currently it comes to about $1450, with students discount, but my budget is only $1300. Do you guys think the price will come down soon? Does anyone know of any coupon code?

 

Have you tried chatting to a sales rep and asking for a discount? They can usually swing 7-8%.


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When I reordered, I got the price down pretty far, so no complaints there.

 

You can always get the price down more by calling and haggling. The amount will vary from salesperson to salesperson.

 

More thoughts on my fully upgraded non-touch with ubuntu 13.10 and gnome-shell.

The only thing that I haven't been able to figure out is how to get the software center from crashing, but it doesn't bother me much since I never really used it anyways (aside from installing deb files I downloaded).

I've been able to install everything I've needed either from apt-get or dpkg from the command line.

I don't find the backspace/delete button that annoying, the f keys are only a bit annoying, the hardest things to get used to will probably be the home/end keys and the back-tick/tilde buttons (though I think I've already started getting used to it (by having to edit/move stuff like ~/.bashrc)). I guess I'm still young enough to learn a new layout pretty quickly (May not hurt that I have practice since I taught myself dvorak in college and can still switch back to qwerty when I'm on someone else's computer).

As for battery life, I'm okay with it so far. With light internet (gmail+internet searches, etc) use while watching tv I was able to get 7+ hours on it (screen on 50% brightness no sleeping (though the laptop was idle for long enough that I needed to shake the mouse as the display started to dim a few times)). Contrasting to that, I was able to get the battery drained in 3 hours by streaming live hd hockey full screen with a lot of buffering since my apartment's internet is basically just barely good enough to support the service I use. I would guess that constantly buffering probably isn't ideal for battery life, I imagine it would be more energy efficient if it was something that wasn't live like youtube since then the whole video (or large chunks of the video) could buffer in one go instead of constantly getting a trickle of information.

The last test I'll have to find time for is a marathon session of playing movies from the hard disk.

Overall I'm pretty happy and I'm most likely going to keep it (unless something really goes wrong in the next few weeks).

 

Now that my machine is finally on its way, can anyone suggest a sleeve? I like something that's snug and given the dimensions, a typical 14" sleeve will be too floppy.
I read a post somewhere where someone said a Lenovo neoprene x201/220 sleeve was perfect.
Any recommendations?