X220t - beware of Abes of Maine!

So I purchased my X220t from Abes of Maine.com. Paid $69 for 2-day shipping, arrived about 2 hrs ago. Opened it up, powered up. Noticed a very bright group of white pixels smack in the center of the screen. Also, there are prints from the manufacturining process underneath the glass on the left side of the screen. Looks like they are from a suction machine or something. Also, the alignment of the display is crooked (it's "cocked" with no way to center it without holding in place).

Looked up my order on Abes website and saw that they have a "30-day money back guarantee" listed prominently on the X200t product page:

Lenovo ThinkPad X220 42962WU 12.5" LED Tablet PC - Core i5 i5-2520M 2.5GHz - Black

Called them up not wanting my money back, but wanting an exchange for the defective Lenovo. After explaining my situation to the sales guy who processed my order, he sent me to customer service. The guy who answered the phone said the 30-day guaratee doesn't apply to this product and said all he could do was give me Lenovo's number (thanks guy, I know how the Lenovo warranty works). I read him a few lines from their FAQ clearly stating that if an item is defective, they will exchange it. Nope, not on this item because it's excluded...

I asked for a manger and he transferred me to a number that rang for about 2 minutes, only to toss me back in to the 30-minute hold que. Frustrated, I hung up and called Lenovo and they have overnighted me a box for depot repair. With the Thanksgiving holiday next week, I will probably have to wait a solid 2 weeks before this 2-hr old machine is back...and it's my only machine.

Frustrating lesson I learned. Beware of Abes.

Never again. Hope they enjoy my purchase because it's my last. Their website is full of lies. If you receive a defective item, you're on your own. Be thankful Lenovo will help...well, maybe. It's not fixed yet.

Off to contact the Consumerist. G'day!

 

I would call your credit card company and dispute the charge. I would not allow Abes to get away with that crap. They can't ship defective products.

 

When you do that, make sure to print out the page on their website that shows the product has a 30-day guarantee.

 

Of course I used Paypal...

I will do everything I can to pursue them. They are crooks.

 

Sorry to hear that. That's why I only buy from trusted places such as Lenovo, or other sites like Amazon and NewEgg.

 

Furthermore, I was charged $69 for UPS 2-3 day shipping even though their website clearly states $44. 95 for overnight. When I asked the guy helping me said $44 is for USPS Priority mail. I said no, I ship that method all the time and its 2-3 business day. I asked how to get overnight for $44 and he said if I chose that it would take 2-3 days for them to "process" the order. The reason I wanted faster shipping is because the free shipping is 10-11 business days. Wow...

He could never explain how 2 day delivery cost $69 and I just gave up and paid it.

I'm usually very good about avoiding shady operations like this but they sure got me this time. Note taken.

 

Sorry to hear that hotsauce.

I am gonna receive an open box T420s from an Ebay top seller this week and after reading this thread, I was wondering what type of tests I should run upon receipt.

 

Anything can happen, but it the seller doesn't explicitly offer a return/exchange period, they aren't accountable. I'm sure you will be fine...this is the first issue I've ever had with a computer and I've had many over the years.

Abes clearly lied about it's policy. That's what I take issue with. That's just shady.

I just made the desktop black and then white. It was apparent the display has defects, both in pixels and from the manufacturing process (suction marks underneath the glass). I just hope Lenovo agrees and a tech doesn't sit there and micro-analyze it and say "looks fine here, return to customer." These defects will drive me crazy staring at them all day...

 

Also, leave a review of them on reseller ratings. Companies like that often read those things and tend to respond to the negative ones and often try to make you whole (rectify the situation) as a PR maneuver.

Abe's of Maine Reviews - abesofmaine.com Ratings at ResellerRatings

 

Thanks. Oh don't worry, twitter facebook resellerratings consumerist you name it, I'm getting my experience out there for all to see.

I was wronged and they owe me more than "call Lenovo."

If their return/exchange policy is as strict as they tell me it is, they need to overhaul their false website. Claims of return ability and money back are everywhere. Very misleading.

 

I would not ship the machine to Lenovo. I would only ship the machine back to Abe's.

Paypal is likely going to side in your favor on this dispute.

 

1. Check the specs of your received machine.

2. Check for any physical defects (i.e. screens have no cluster of dead pixels).

3. RUN CPU intensive tasks like Prime95 and see whether it abruptly shuts down.

4. Also check the warranty start date.

 

I just don't trust doing that. I can imagine a month long drawn out fiasco with them grappling over the refusal to exchange it.

My depot return box will be here in the morning. Simply put, I just trust Lenovo to fix this under the 3-yr warranty.

And I'm not done with Abe's just yet...

 

Ok, I wish you the best of luck.

 

"The following items cannot be returned:
Fitness equipment, Large Appliances, Security items, Special Order Merchandise, Marine and Camping Equipment, Sunglasses, Watches, Software, TV's, Computer components, laptops, Tablets."
QUOTE FROM RETURN POLICY.


I hate to say this but I think that you are beat. My understanding of this matter, it was either to Lenovo for a refund or Lenovo for repair.

 

I see where you are coming from... but if the item is defective, the an exchange should always be allowed. This is easily disputable via credit card. PayPal might be tougher though.

Hope it all works out OP.

 

As with all warranties/policies, if it doesn't say so, it doesn't happen.

PayPal may change the above, but, but, . . .

All I too can say is good luck to the OP.

 

Yeah -30- I read that. I also read the listing that says "30 day money back guarantee."

Basically, their website talks out of both ends of it's proverbial mouth. That's shady.

I will never do business with this operation. Thank God Lenovo has my back...otherwise I'd be launching into a PayPal dispute fiasco with tem that would surely go on for months.

If computers cannot be returned (BTW, I wanted to simply exchange it because it's defective) they should state it on the product page, not bury it deep in the FAQ. It's not like I called crying because I didn't like it and demanded my money back NOW!! They sold a defective product, didn't stand behind it, and dumped me to the manufacturer.

They are sneaky.

Let's play a game. Look at the attached image and tell me how it reads. Can you return it? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, based on how they advertised it. Why so tricky, honest Abe?

I asked the CSR rep why the 30 day money back logo is on the product page. He said it you click on it, it will open a page that says this item isn't covered.

Click on it and see what happens. Keep clicking. And clicking.

That's right. Nothing happens. It's a static, misleading image that I'm sure a lawyer would love to hear about (no, I'm not suing anyone, but it's certainly grounds for s o m e t h i n g...). Yes, if you click on the "30 day money back guarantee" link on the product details, it opens a page that says it's not returnable. L O L. Say what?? Why even list that? I know why, they are banking on people who see that and see the little blue "no problem! return it" image and buy thinking they have a safety net (ala Amazon.com) for returns. Nope. You've just been mislead my friend.

Buyer beware.

Just filed FTC and BBB complaint. If nothing else, they need to remove that banner from their computers and any other product that's sneakily excluded from their highly limited return policy. This needs to be stopped.

 

The very first sentence of the return policy at Abe's of Maine Support Center - Cameras and Electronics since 1979!

"In the event you are not satisfied with your purchase, we will gladly help you exchange or return your product."

The return policy on laptops is for other scenarios like buyer remorse or whatever. Not a product that is defective and DOA as far as I am concerned.

PayPal investigations take no more than 21 days. If the payment used a credit card, a chargeback is issued for the dispute which puts the money in limbo. Chargebacks have teeth. Betcha Abe's changes their attitude when that happens.

But if you ship the machine to Lenovo, you are taking on some risk. You risk Abe's saying ship it back right away and after we receive it, we'll send you another tablet or issue a refund.

 

Not worried about their demand. Their normal shipping time is 10-11 business days (as stated by the CSR). That's why I paid $69 for 2-day shipping (even though the website says it costs $44.95 for overnight..it's a mystery!).

I can send to Lenovo, have it fixed and returned before even worrying about their "SHIP TO US IMMEDIATELY AT YOUR EXPENSE" crap that they may pull.

I'll take my sweet time unless they want to pay me $69 to 2-day it to them.

Edit: complaints filed

 

Last thing, just to clarify. I have no beef with Abe's...this was my first time ever using them. What I take issue with is the deceptive advertising of their 30 day money back and exchange policy and failure to honor it while hiding behind fine print buried in their FAQ about computers. Those statements and the blue graphic touting the policy do not belong on pages that contain non return/exchange enabled products.

Simply put, it's deceptive and misleading. It needs to be changed. That's all I want since I'm sending my X220 to Lenovo for repair.

Had the product arrived in a non-defective state, I would probably be singing praises as a happy customer. The aggravation began when they denied an exchange and dumped me to the manufacturer.

 

I will not do business with them based on your experience.

 

What a nightmare this is turning into.

Called up Lenovo this morning to check the status of my depot repair. The person who helped me had to transfer me to the billing department...BILLING?

Talked with the representative and he told me the techs determined the bright pixels and crooked display was physical damage from the customer and could not be repaired under warranty. Keep in mind, I had this machine for a few minutes before calling Lenovo since Abe's would not exchange it. I did not do anything to the machine - it arrived defective and now Lenovo is trying to bill me $950 to fix!!!!

The guy at Lenovo said Abe's should have exchanged it since it arrived in that condition. I asked him to call Abe's and talk to those guys...they will have no discussion about an exchange, they just give you Lenovo's phone number.

So here I sit waiting on the "case" to be reviewed by Lenovo's management for approval consideration. If it's not approved, they will send me a bill for $950.

You have got to be kidding me. I'm furious with this whole process. I'm suddenly on the hook to pay for a defective machine.

Unreal.

 

And to add insult to injury, it appears Abe's has deleted my reseller ratings.com review. No surprise there, they are so shady.

Edit: and it just re-appeared.

This is so frustrating.

 

I'm confused. Why did you send it to Lenovo for repair instead of doing a chargeback on your credit card and returning it?

 

Because that's what Abe's of Maine told me to do. They said returning or exchanging it was not an option and if they received a return they would reject the package, sending back to me. I did not want to risk a chargeback not going through then finding myself sitting past a reasonable time for resolution. Also, I used PayPal, which I have little confidence that a chargeback would result in a replacement from Abe's.

I sent to Lenovo with the full expectation that they would clearly see the manufacturing defects and repair under warranty. Nothing that was wrong with that display was a result of any physical damage.

I've emailed [email protected] several times. Silence.

I found his email on reseller ratings.com. Apparently he makes things happen, but not in this case so far.

This is far from over...

 

I think you went in the wrong direction. The listing for the laptop states 30 day money back. With a further policy that says no returns. That's absurd. Plus, the item is defective. You should've opened a dispute with paypal and let them deal with the law.

Even now, just open a dispute with paypal. You dont want to delay this too much. First hand experience with scammy people tells me that the quicker you get lawyers/authorities involved, the quicker they respond. Don't negotiate or talk to them. Don't follow their advice. Tell them to deal with the law.

 

I received a personal email from the VP of Abe's of Maine (after finding his email through google). Apparently, they are throwing Lenovo under the bus for not fixing it under warranty and are trying to get an exception for an exchange.

What a waste of time this has been for me. Lesson learned...and I am still without a resolution.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that this is not the first time this event has happened to Abe's. After all is said & done, this thread will remain as on their record. Just deserts for them.

Regards.

 

I'm not sure what your post means -30-...

I went ahead and disputed it via PayPal in the event that Abe's tries to dodge the exchange. Lenovo shipped the un-repaired machine back to me for an 11-22 delivery. I am supposed to receive a call from the VP of Abe's of Maine on the 22nd (he confirmed via a personal email to me).

The only reason I am still doubting I will receive a replacement is because their laptop buyer told me via email that he would have to talk with his Lenovo rep to see *if* they can do an exchange. I'm certain I have a solid case, so we'll see...but the if language makes me nervous as it sounds like they are trying to leave themselves an out if the Lenovo rep says no.

If they renig on their leading emails about an exchange, I'll leave the dispute in PayPal's hands. I have enough documentation to demonstrate I've done all I was instructed to do by Abe's and Lenovo (i.e. send it to Lenovo - they will fix and take good care of you, which did not happen as they wanted $950 to fix).

This is the worst experience I've ever had from an online purchase. I mean really, the VP of the company is emailing me...doesn't he have better things to do? Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful I found his email and he took the time to respond, but should I really have to go the very top to beg for an exchange a defective product??

Wouldn't it have been much easier if they just said okay, you've articulated your case and we'll exchange it? This is turning into an expensive time wasting circus for myself and Abe's...I know I've burned hours dealing with emails and documentation. What a mess.

Good thing I'm in the country and on vacation this week. I got nothin' but time Abe's...and I will not relent until I receive the product I paid for (i.e. a non-defective machine).

Edit: and Lenovo isn't without fault here by the way. I'm actually quite insulted that their repair techs coded my case as "customer damage" and placed the burden of proof on me to convince them I did not cause the "pressure points" (white pixels) and "bent hinge" (customer abuse). I had this machine for a total of three hours before I returned it to Lenovo. 2.5 of those three hours were spent on the phone with Abe's and Lenovo explaining everything. Being accused of causing these defects left a really bad taste in my mouth. And I'm still wondering why they chose to ignore the third issue, which is two spots underneath the LCD from the manufacturing process (viewable on a black background or when the machine is turned off). That in and of itself should absolutely justify a warranty replacement of the LCD since it's clearly from the manufacturing process. For some reason Lenovo glossed over this and focused on the "customer abuse" theory. What a letdown from their warranty department...

 

This is exactly why the VP needs to be involved. When a firms reputation is on the line, VPs need to know. I have confidence you will get satisfaction hotsauce. Stay saucy man.

 

Thanks. I happen to like spicy foods, hence my username

I'm actually just a regular guy-businessman-husband who gets quite steamed when his hard-earned money is taken by a company that holds such a stubborn line when the consumer is wronged. Trust me, it's no fun being in the middle when Abe's points to Lenovo and Lenovo points to Abe's for responsibility. Classic corporate finger pointing while the consumer grapples with how to handle the next round of blame.

I'm certain I'll get satisfaction as well. It's my personal mission to win this fight. If nothing else, for all consumers. It's just bad business to treat consumers the way I've been treated. Thankfully, I have the time and resources to fight this since I'm (trying) to enjoy the holidays with my family on vacation this week.

 

I applaud your tenacity and earnestly hope that you are made whole.

 

I read this thread.. and I believe there's something I must be missing.

If you received a faulty item, and they (any retailer, really) refuse to swap it - isn't the right thing to do to simply call your card-issuer and immediately refuse the charge? It seems like you're just being jerked around by this retailer because you (for some reason) are loathe to do this, but this really is the only smart and rational thing to do. You're just wasting your own precious time if you do anything else, really.

 

I honestly don't think you read the entire thread.

 

I did dispute it via PayPal.

Re-read the thread.

By the way, the VP told me today that it will take 4 days and they fully expect Lenovo to approve an exchange.

Getting closer...

 

IF the VP is being honest, I think you're set. There's no way that Lenovo is going to deny a request by one of their authorized resellers.

 

I received the un-repaired X220 tablet back today. I tried to capture the three panel issues with my camera, but they really are easier to see with the naked eye.

1. Spots underneath the LCD. I believe these are from some sort of suction machine that was used during the manufacturing process. They are underneath the glass and are always visible when using the machine. This by itself should have warranted a replacement, but Lenovo apparently didn't see it that way:

http://i42.tinypic.com/9t39kh.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/drf1qa.png

2. Crooked hinge. Doesn't look like much, but it will drive you crazy since it's not "square" when staring at the screen. Lenovo confirmed the hinge is bent (and blamed me for the damage.......)

http://i42.tinypic.com/jh3el0.png

3. Bright white pixels. Very visible on a white background. Makes image work a nightmare. My eyes go to this spot every time I look at the screen. Again, Lenovo blamed me for this, stating it's a "pressure point." Not the case Lenovo - was like this out of the box. This is very hard to photograph, but let me tell you, it's very annoying and clearly a defect in the panel.

http://i43.tinypic.com/207aw0g.png

I imagine someone will say I'm just being picky. Not the case. Believe me, if you had to stare at this panel all day, it would drive you nuts. Especially since these issues existed from the factory. Nobody should tolerate this - especially when the IPS screen will be used for photography. Plus, Lenovo agreed that there are defects (although they called them "damage") - hence the reason they said I needed to pay $950 to repair. If these weren't issues, they would have said it checked out fine and nothing was wrong.


Good thing Abe's is doing the right thing by allowing an exchange. Fingers crossed the replacement doesn't have any issues. That's a risk I'm willing to take as this machine in it's current form is not acceptable.

 

Can you add some overlays to help us identify what you see? It's not so easy through images.

 

Wow, really? I updated the images with red markups to show what I'm talking about.

 

The IPS on the x220 does have bright spots from what I've read. The other two problems are a lot more noticeable and deserve fixing for sure.

 

Sorry, I dunno why I couldn't see them from work... but at home the screen issues seem obvious. The crooked hinge would have been harder to tell without the lines because the laptop is at an angle.

This seems like shoddy construction rather than damage to me. I'm hoping you got a lemon (and that it gets replaced, not fixed).

 

No problem. I should have pointed out the faults when I initially posted them so thanks. I realize the line on the right (on the hinge photo) is a bit long. Was my fault with an unsteady hand while drawing it. Rest assured, the display is crooked and annoying.

Lemon it is. That's why I was so insulted when Lenovo support tagged the repair case as "customer damage." Unreal.

And to think Lenovo tried to charge me almost a grand to repair. I think they need to look in the mirror and understand that the QA process isn't 100% accurate all day every day. Lemons slip through occasionally and this was one of them.

I emailed the photos to the case manager who was handling my repair. I told him Abe's has said they will exchange it, and I was sending along to close my case. It was a defective machine and I was not at fault and I wanted to prove that (although he did say from the start he believed me, but had not seen the machine).

If nothing else, it gives me peace of mind knowing that IBM realizes they were wrong in accusing me.

 

Hope everything goes well for you after this point, mate. Love it when the sellers are caught red-handed for mistreating customer, and forced to correct their mistakes.

 

Are you thinking of backlight bleed?

The spots in the pics posted above are in the middle area and obviously a damaged pixel or diffuser problem, backlight bleed is at the edges.

 

Ok, credit where credit is due.

I spent several weeks emailing both the VP of Abe's of Maine and the Laptop buyer about this issue. After sending it to Lenovo and having Lenovo say I was at fault and owed $950 for the repair, they sent it back to me un-repaired. That left me to deal with Abe's of Maine, which was no picnic.

I was stern in my communications with the Abe's staff. It took several weeks, but they finally shipped (via overnight, at their expense) a replacement. Arrived this past Friday, 12/1 and I'm pleased to say it's a perfect machine. No issues at all.

They also sent me a pre-paid shipping label to return the defective machine. I am waiting on a full refund.

So, in the end, Abe's did make it "right," but it should have never required the following:

Posting a negative review on resellerratings.com
Filing a BBB and FTC complaint
Having to google email addresses for executives and directly contact them
Filing a dispute with PayPal
Waiting three weeks on this fiasco to be resolved

I am happy I was able to get an exception granted to exchange the machine for a non-defective one, but man it was a process and a half. The average person who doesn't know to do all these steps is screwed. Luckily, I was handy with the resources available to me to make enough noise for a resolution.

My opinion still stands that Abe's website, with the "30-day money back guarantee" banners is deceptive. It needs to be changed and my attempts to initiate this change went unfounded.

I wish this nightmare on no one, even though in the end, I won my case (and rightfully so).

 

Good trumps evil on occasion.

 

Hey all,

Wish I had read this thread before buying a laptop from these slime-balls!

On the product page for the Zenbook I purchased there is a logo that says "30 day money back guarantee" Then listed along with the product specs, for this specific product, it says "30 Day Money Back Guarantee - See policy For details." Turns out the "policy" is that there is NO money back guarantee or return under ANY circumstances for laptops. Clearly this is false advertising and it is 100% illegal in the US. (Link: ASUS ZENBOOK UX31E-DH52 13.3" Intel Core i5-2557M Processor, 4GB RAM (Maxed out) - Silver )

When I spoke to the rep (after nearly an hour on hold) he insisted that I cannot return the laptop, even after I explained that it is in fact defective (the WiFi does not work unless it's within 10 feet of a router - internal antenna is probably not functioning) I installed tons of different drivers and even reformatted it just to be sure.
I explained that the product page on their website says there is a refund guarantee. He couldn't care less.

The solution to this problem was pretty easy though - I printed out the page containing the false advertising, filed a chargeback with Visa, and will send the page to them as documentation. Then I went on to leave this tale all over the reseller review sites as well as with the Better Business Bureau.

Screw you Abe's of Maine!

 

?

Abe's of Maine Support Center - Cameras and Electronics since 1979!

Quote
"The following items can only be returned if unopened:
A/V Furniture, A/V Receivers, Bluetooth Accessories, Car Equipment, Computer Peripherals, Consumables, DJ Equipment, DVD players, Gaming Consoles, Headphones, Home Theater, Laptops, Microphones, Printers, Projectors Shavers.

The following items cannot be returned:
Fitness equipment, Large Appliances, Wine coolers, Security items, Special Order Merchandise, Marine and Camping Equipment, Sunglasses, Watches, Software, TV's, Computer components, laptops, Tablets."
End Quote

1. How could you know if an item is defective, unless you opened the package?

2. Even if you didn't open the package, laptops "cannot" be returned.

I agree, this webpage is absolutely false, and misleading, advertising.

ASUS ZENBOOK UX31E-DH52 13.3" Intel Core i5-2557M Processor, 4GB RAM (Maxed out) - Silver

DragonRider

 

It's incredible to me the people running that site are STILL false advertising. Attached is the current screenshot of the Lenovo IdeaPad U300s pre-order. Is clearly says 30 day money back guarantee in two prominent places.

They need to stop this practice at once. It is totally misleading.

On the other hand it's a great way to get a laptop for 30 days then stick it to them with the charge back from the credit card company. Maybe we should all order machines.

What is the best way to get them to stop?