the legalities behind the Employee Purchase Program

The controversy surrounding the recent Brian Meyer deal has got me wondering about the strings that come attached with the employee discount. I've heard around that EPP deals can't be altered, they have to be used with the express consent of the employee, and misuse can even result in a nullification of warranty. However, I've started from Lenovo's home page, to accessing the EPP portal, to entering the EPP information, all the way to customizing a laptop and the purchasing page, and suffice to say, I only found two contracts presented by Lenovo in the entire buying process: the Terms & Conditions listed at checkout, and another fine print blurb at the end of the order confirmation email.

None of these agreements state anything EPP-specific other than the fact that EPP purchases cannot be returned. There are no provisions for using EPP without employee consent or using EPP without knowledge that the employee overused his discount privileges. Lenovo does say that they reserve to cancel the order for pricing errors and issue a credit if applicable. But what happens after they ship? If they cancel a warranty, wouldn't I have a case?

The only section in the Terms & Conditions that refers to "Programs" states

However, I don't believe this section refers to discount programs because of the way the word "programs" is used in the sentence. How can you "license" (not "sell," mind you) a discount program to someone? That doesn't seem to make any definitional sense.

If anyone knows what the "programs" this clause is referring to or whether or not Lenovo can legally (in terms of contracts) cancel your warranty due to "EPP misuse," please speak up!

Edit:
I found the IBM EPP terms and conditions, which are conveniently located on the IBM EPP sign-in page, but that's on the IBM website referring to IBM products!! I also found a copy of the Lenovo EPP terms and conditions on a Fatwallet forum, but I still don't see a copy of that contract anywhere on Lenovo's website. What gives?

 

If the situation wasn't already ambiguous enough, I found this clause in the Lenovo website terms of use:

Wow, they must be invincible. They can do whatever they want!!! I'm totally cancelling my order- oh wait, they might tell me my order is cancelled but that could just be an inaccuracy of the information provided by them!! The T61 costs $X - NOPE! inaccuracy, we actually charged you $XXXXXXXX. Tough balls. You should've read the website terms of use.

 

It should be noted that in the past when this has happened, a lot of the units ordered under false EPP discounts were help up excessively then canceled with no warning, something that Lenovo clearly reserves the right to do. Just a warning.

I decided to be safe to just use my IBM SPP (shareholder purchase program) discount, which somewhat irritatingly appears to be a smaller discount than the EPP one - oh well.

 

Yeah. that would make sense. Guess it won't ship after all?

 

I am religiously following these threads (thx for continuing your investigation on this johnny_1987) but I suppose only time will tell. I have cancelled my order, and used TailorMade deal instead, but I still would like to know as I have ordered T60 for my wife to find out whether this deal will work or not.

 

geez it's only about a 5% difference between tailormade and epp

i wish i could get an SPP or 10% tailormade discount from an auto company.

 

Hey, $$$ is $$$. Billions of people in this world don't have the luxury to throw $50 away. And if it wasn't a big deal, you wouldn't suggest we wait until July now would you?

 

Suppose the "Whole Deal" was "Perpetrated" as a Publicity Stunt to make additional end-of-month sales for Lenovo...

 

If that was the case, it worked. I initially ordered it with EPP deal and canceled it after I chickened out with "NO Warranty" issues. Then, I still wanted a new notebook and bought the T61 again with EPP. After reading about all the quality features, it is hard to live without it.

 

That is exactly what has happened already to two people I have spoke to on this forum. It is not just some publicity stunt. Cancel now so you don't have to waste another three weeks chasing the inevitable.

 

So you "Rebuke 'The Devil'" and promise to "Sin" no more?

 

Have not happened to me. Only said the T61 is delayed because of a component problem. Also, talked to a rep. today about my order. Gave him my order number. He just said something about a delay. Nothing about this EPP histeria. I will not cancel my order. Looking forward to myT61 in Late June.

 

gonna let my order ride......see what happens

 

You ordered with the Brian Meyer discount?

 

Can't you get the EPP + Tailormade discount if you check ou using your AMEX?

FOr that matter can't you get FW + EPP + Tailormade?

I know for sure you can do FW + Tailormade.

 

I ordered with my friend Brian Meyer's discount and my order is still intact and still says estimated ship date of 6/11/07. I even talked to a rep and at he also said nothing about my order being flagged or invalid... just a delay with the T61's. In fact, my estimated ship date has always been 6/11 and never changed since placing the order.

If Lenovo decides to cancel my EPP order, then it's all good, no hard feelings. But I see no reason to prematurely cancel my order. I'll let Lenovo make that call... the deal is too good to back out now. In all honestly, my only hesitation in pulling the trigger on the T61 was I really wanted to wait and see what Dell is offering up as far as their new re-designed Santa Rosa Inspirons and XPS systems look. However, at this rate, I figure Dell's lineup will be announced before my notebook has even begun to be built... if ever! LOL!

 

Yes you can... I got the EPP, Tailormade AND FW deals all combined. The Tailormade deal is through Amex and they just look to see if the charge shows up on your card from Lenovo.

The FW deal I heard was maybe less of a guarantee but I received confirmation that my Cash Back from them was already in Progress. As long as my EPP order doesn't get canceled, I honestly think I got a killer deal! We shall see how it plays out!

 

Yep, the T61. 40% Memorial Day Sale that is all over the web. I will go with HKINGS and let lenovo make the call. I am sure all will be well.

 

right on...

 

Saw this on SD forum. Just giving a heads up.

 

Please don't believe everything you read...

 

im still not convinced based on that one persons experience. Now if there were multiple people here that were told the same thing, then I would consider the Meyer EPP deal dead. At the very least, Lenovo should email all Meyer EPP orders and tell them up front that the orders will be delayed or cancelled.

 

I believe Lenovo/IBM appreciates the Present AND future sales from this promotion.

I'd bet alot of folks were compelled to buy a Thinkpad who normally would not...A good way to build "Brand Loyalty"...

 

Just a note, I used EPP and am currently unable to access my acount, as though my account is suspended, red flagged, or my order has been canceled

 

The Ghost of Brian Meyers...BOOOO....

 

actually its no ghost, I can no longer log in with the account I created to make my initial EPP purchase. I also can not request my password because its says my email does not exist.

Im starting to believe that all these Meyer EPP orders will get cancelled. A "deal" like this gets too big and wild, and it will eventually call attention to itself...resulting in the cancellation of everyones "deal".

edit, the account I created to make my legitimate EPP purchase with my neighbors Serial # is still active...coincidence? Im not sure.

 

my cousin actually works for ibm....am i to believe that all you freeloaders are going to make my t61 take longer to get to me?.....

(note: i'm waiting to grab the 15.4" model)

 

Thats weird... When did you order yours exactly? The link in the order status email I got still points to my order as being alive and well. I even manually input my customer number and order number into the order status page and my order still comes up alive and well. I wonder when mine will be canceled? When did you place your "Meyers EPP" order S4iscool?

 

my Meyers T61 was ordred last week, when the info was first made public. My link to the cancelled order obviously doesnt help you all, because the order was cancelled a few days ago. Once the orders are cancelled, the link shows an error message...which is normal i believe. What happens when you try to log into your "my account"? that is where i get the problem

 

Six things I think you guys would be interested in hearing:

First, I decided not to call in. (Why fan the flames of fire?)

Second, my order still shows with a ship date of 6/11, so it is alive and well.

Third, I know what is happening with you guys who are trying to access your accounts. The Lenovo website is janky such that you can't log into your account by clicking the My Account button on the menu bar. However, if you pretend you are purchasing a laptop and go through the motions, you can log into your account via the buying process. Because of this, I know my account is still intact.

Fourth, the reason why I started reporting about red-flags and such is exactly because I read that guy's comment on SlickDeals.

Fifth, I also got a pm from another guy on this forum that also got his order cancelled after he made a call last Friday. I won't detail on who that person is, because I don't know if he told me that in confidence as he pmed me but never spoke up on these threads.

Sixth, I figure I might as well wait and see what happens to this order. All I have to lose is to have that order cancelled and I won't miss out on this Memorial Day sale because I have a price quote in store ready to be used within the next 30 days. You guys should do the same just in case the following sale sucks and your EPP deal gets iced.

 

you need to log on through the EPP channel as the user accounts are in a different database. you need to through lenovo.com/ibmepp

alternatively, the following link should bring you to a login page where your account will work: http://shoplenovo.i2.com/SEUILibrary/controller/Lenovo:EnterStdAffinity?affinity=eppibm

 

that all makes sense. i wonder why that guys order was cancelled though. Lenovo cant be completley clueless to this, so I wonder why one or a few people would get their orderd cancelled.

 

s4 wasn't talking about accessing Meyer's EPP account. He was talking about accessing his own buyer account.

 

we are all aware of that. nonetheless, as i said in my previous message, user accounts provisioned through the EPP program website are in a separate database and can only be accessed through the EPP website.

 

Somebody's lying. But according to House, whose season finale is tonight, "everybody lies."

Uh-oh.

 

wel i think untill we hear of a larger number of people reporting the cancellation of their orders, there shouldnt be any alarm

 

johnny_ I thought you implied that you already canceled your order?

 

Minds can change. I figure I have little to lose and much to gain by waiting. I wouldn't re-order in the next few weeks anyway just from chasing deals.

 

BTW, how do you get a price quote?

 

Go through the motions of ordering a laptop. When you get to the final page, click on "convert to price quote" or whatever it actually says. This gives you a price quote that is valid for 30 days that you can turn into a purchase. Keep chasing those deals!!!

 

Here are messages I got from vkpascal:

 

very interesting! Maybe lenovo doesnt really have the means to track EPP orders down to the exact account? Why would Lenovo have to wait until an EPP customer divulged that information? Shouldnt they be able to see all the EPP orders placed with Meyers serial number and cancel them all if they wanted?

 

And yet, some people who contacted Lenovo didn't get their EPP orders cancelled. Strange.

 

Thanks johnny... BTW, how long does it take for that price quote to show up in my mailbox. It's been 15 minutes or so. Thought it would only take seconds.

Back to the possible voided warranty topic. I think getting the extended warraty is out of the question since you might spend that extra money just to have it voided out. After you get the laptop call up and inquire about your warrantee and when it expires then ask if you can purchase the extended warranty. For my desktop (Alienware before dellware) I was offered to buy the extended warranty as long as I purchased it before the one year warranty was up. I know it's a different company, but this is probably common practice.

 

stallen, but if the extended warranty gets voided, why would you assume that the standard 1 year warranty is valid? I would imagine, both would get cancelled, if that happens.

 

I might not be explaining myself clearly. First off, if I get a great deal I can live without the warranty. So I'm willing to take my chances by just ordering with the basic/included 1 year warranty. I really don't think it will be canceled, but just in case... Then after I have the laptop in my possession I would consider calling and inquiring about my warranty to make sure if it was valid. If it is still valid, I would even further considering purchasing the extended warranty at that point.

 

This has always been in my sig, but how has Andrew's EPP order come along?

 

Maybe, maybe not. Dont always believe what you read, lol.

A few days ago, I wrote/told some of you that, in my past experience, it's hit-and-miss as to whether they check/confirm the usage of the employee number.

I also said, take the discount and run if you get it. Once the product is shipped, it's yours. But, as others have also noted, the warranty could be voided later if you get caught. I can assure that has happened before.

As for the "legalities" and whether you have a case, I think it's not worthwhile for amount of money involved. Even in small claims court, unless you're really anal.

 

I'm surprised he hasn't pm'd you about that yet.

Anyway, he probably has a legit employee friend/relative there.
And he has more leverage than any of us do to push back.

 

It's the new Eenie Meenie Miney Mo policy. Didn't you hear?