EUROCOM Tornado F5 Mini-MonsterBook Review Thread

EUROCOM TORNADO F5 EXTREME EDITION

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The amazing Tornado F5 was delivered to me the afternoon a January 23, sent from Eurocom World Headquarters, in Nepean, Ontario, Canada. Discussion of a review began back in October of 2016 and it has been a long wait. We opted to postpone the review until the 'Extreme Edition" was available.

I mention this at the onset because Eurocom is not your typical notebook vendor. The company was founded by a man of unusual vision, who values innovation and quality products. They are one of the few notebook specialty companies that you will find that share the values of genuine enthusiasts and understand our contempt for BGA filth. They are an advocate for us with Clevo and the manufacturer of the model under review, as well as Intel and NVIDIA, and they support those of us that are not willing to compromise on soldered trashbooks. You can read a little more about the company on their “About Us” page.

Now, before you start questioning my motives and dismiss me as a shill for Eurocom, let me set the record straight. I do not work for them. I have built a friendship with them, just as I have HIDevolution. They are a @Prema partner shop, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the price of admission to awesomeness. The reasons have to do with shared values and common passions. They share our contempt for mediocrity and hatred of the control freaks that dominate the industry. And, the reason all of this is relevant is because the Tornado F5 is absolutely not your typical 15-inch “gamer-boy” turdbook.

Core Specifications (as tested):

• Intel Core i7-7700K CPU
• NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 (8GB GDDR5x)
• 64GB DDR4-3000 (4x16GB G.Skill RipjawsV F4-3000C16-16GRS)
• LG Philips LP156WF6 (FHD IPS) 15.6" LCD 60Hz Matte w/ G-Sync
• Killer Wireless-n/a/ac 1535 Wireless Network Adapter
• Killer E2500 Gigabit Ethernet Controller
• 1x Thunderbolt 3™ Controller / USB 3.1 Type C
• 3x USB 3.0
• 1x HDMI 2.1
• 1x mini-DP 1.2​

I am not going to spend a great deal of time covering the specs. There are other places you can get that information. If you are really wanting to investigate all of the finer details with the minutia on things like screen quality and what-not, you’re in the wrong place. Here are a couple of links you can check out.

EUROCOM Tornado F5 Review | NotebookCheck

EUROCOM Tornado F5 Review | Gaming Laptops Junky​

My review is going to ignore all that fluff and give you the perspective of a notebook enthusiast that is obsessed with performance, overclockability, upgradability and serviceability. Now, please do not take that the wrong way. The fluff is nice, but it is only icing on the cake. If there is no cake under the icing, or the cake tastes like crap, only a fool or a sugar-addict is going to bother eating it.

First Impressions:
The Tornado F5 is very attractive. It is built well and surprisingly light, at least by my standards. In fact, one of the first things I noticed, and had reservations about immediately, is how light this bad boy is. I have had about 24 hours to become familiar with it, and I am very pleased with its build quality and aesthetics. In every respect it looks good and feels like a high quality product. While being light is not important to me, I know it is to some of you. Let's just say I am no longer disturbed by how light it is... not even a little bit.

The IPS display panel is very good. The colors and blacks look great, the maximum viewing angles are excellent and 1080p is the absolutely perfect maximum resolution for a 15-inch screen. Any higher resolution would be miserable to use and anything less than FHD would suck. Literally everything about the display is pleasing. Oh, yeah... it's G-Sync as well. The only way it could be better is if it were 120Hz. But, I am planning to overclock it and if it responds well to that the 60Hz refresh rate may not actually matter much in the grand scheme of things. I will report on how that goes when I get around to it later this week. The reviews linked above have more details on the screen, or you can check it out at the Panelook.com web site (also linked in specs section above).

Initial Observations:
Performance potential seems to be superior. Its capacity to endure extreme overclocking will be proven during the period of my review, or it will be destroyed in the process. And, all of you will have a front-row seat to bear witness to what it is capable of, and what it is not. I have no doubt that in terms of performance this little beast is going to kick the teeth out of all the pathetic over-priced BGA competition alternatives out there.

As expected, out-of-box thermals are quite poor. This seems to be the story facing all of us today, regardless of brand. Even the low-TDP jokebooks being passed off as high performance products suffer from extreme temperatures. In some cases, poor quality control, lackluster engineering, and haphazard assembly practices exacerbate this. If you are in the market for a new notebook with discrete graphics and a CPU with any amount of performance flair to it, get used to the idea that one of the first things you are going to need to do is either take it apart to do things over again the right way, or pay someone else to do it for you. But know this: nobody is going to care as much about it as you do, so save your money and do it yourself.

There is no doubt that loosey-goosey standard power specifications from Intel contribute to the problem. Since the release of Haswell, it seems stock voltage is always way too high and power limits are way too low, and even the mightiest CPUs tend to run like crap using BIOS defaults. Unfortunately, most notebook manufacturers and their sellers adhere to Intel's recommendations for these default values. So, in addition to dealing with having to take active steps to address workmanship, engineering and quality control issues, you can also count on spending a fair amount of time in tuning to get the most performance and lowest temperatures from your shiny new laptop. If you are not prepared to do these things, do yourself a favor. Save your money, buy a Chromebook and a game console. Just being real here folks... no matter how much you spend, the OOBE is almost always going to suck as it relates to performance and thermals. That's why we call ourselves enthusiasts, right?

In the case of the Tornado F5, I could not be happier to see that the heat sinks are well made and appear to be substantial enough to do a fine job of managing the heat. In fact, one of the first things I did was tear it apart, de-lid the CPU and applied liquid metal paste under the IHS. Contact between the IHS and heat sink seem to be excellent and it responded very favorably to these steps. The decrease in temperatures was immediate and substantial. Using the right amount of voltage helped a lot as well. The fact that both of my 7700K machines can run 5.0GHz on stock voltage, load Windows, run some benchmarks, surf the web and watch YouTube videos without blue-screen crashes is ample confirmation that stock voltage is way too much for stock clocks.

The Chiclet keyboard will definitely take some getting used to for me. It looks like a million bucks and the LED backlighting is outstanding. It seems to be a very high quality keyboard. I am not used to this style of keyboard. The short key travel is pure weirdness to me, but the keys are all highly responsive and have a nice tactile feel to them. The Windows key is on the right and the Delete key is in the wrong spot, so I will have to get used to that as well. (I keep hitting the Insert key when I am expecting Delete, LOL.)

The touchpad is very nice as well. I had to force myself to use it because I avoid using touchpads on all laptops. I just do not like them and prefer using a mouse. But, based on my experience with this one I can tell you that when I have no option to use a mouse I will not be nearly as miserable as I normally am when I have to use a touchpad. It is responsive to touch and the discrete buttons have a satisfying tactile feel. They have a deeper and subtle hollow sound to them and not the obnoxious “click-clack” sound that seems so common. The best thing about it is that it is not a buttonless click-pad abortion like what seems to be popular with many consumers… thanks Apple and Dell… NOT.

So, on day one the only real thing I can see that I wish were different is all three USB ports are on the right side. Not a huge problem for me, but if we can only have three, it would be nice to have one on each side and one in back. To be fair, the TB3/USB Type C port is in back. When I get around to transitioning to Type C, I probably won’t care about all three USB ports being on the right side. Even now it’s a minor gripe that is eclipsed by a plethora of things that are worthy of celebration.

OK, I have already wasted enough of your time with all of this mumbo-jumbo. Let’s get on with it, shall we?

Pros:

• Modular Design (socketed CPU and MXM) supporting service, repairs and upgrades and cherry-picking
• Desktop Skylake and Kaby Lake “K” series CPUs with extreme overclocking support and high TDP
• Excellent build quality and light weight
• Outstanding aesthetic qualities
• Easy access to drives, CPU and GPU and two memory slots
• Excellent display quality, with high viewing angles and oustanding clarity
• The world’s only current generation non-Clevo notebook worthy of purchase by enthusiasts
• Excellent service and support by an industry leader and innovator in the high performance notebook market (see Updates section below)

​

Cons:

• 15-inch form factor (17-inch is my preference). Move this to “Pro” if you prefer 15-inch
• 60Hz IPS refresh rate
• Storage is limited to 3 drives (2x M.2 2280 and 1x 2.5” HDD/SSD)
• Access to memory under keyboard may not be easy (TBD)
• No USB 3.0 ports on left side and rear panel.
• Battery is cable-connected to motherboard (popular trend, but not my favorite)​

TL;DR??? Let me summarize this for you in as few words as possible.

• Excellent
• Awesome
• Bad-ass
​

The meaningful part of my review will follow in the two posts below. Who doesn’t like pictures and videos? I hope you enjoy them. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them. I will answer them if I can. Please ask in the thread (not private message) so everyone can benefit from the answers. Oh wait... I have PM turned off. Never mind. Please ask in the thread and I will PM you if I need to.

It is not part of my Tornado F5 review, but I also received a 780W AC adapter, which is Eurocom’s creation. It is a sweet compliment to any laptop. It is almost four times more power than this machine needs, but you’ll see why it is so sweet in the videos that follow. I will do a separate review of the monster-brick using my larger Über-Beast to see what it is capable of.

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UPDATES

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01/26/2017:
The 60Hz IPS display panel is not overclockable. Tried a variety of settings and the screen goes black. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It's still a super nice display running stock, but as long as things work right, more is always better when it comes to clock speeds.

01/27/2017:
Meanwhile, back at the laboratory... with the blessing of @Eurocom Support... a cure for the cancer is forthcoming.
**Click to Open Spoiler**

Spoiler: Photos of Surgical Procedure - Viewer Discretion Advised

01/30/2016:
One of the Pro bullet points above mentions the excellent service and support. These videos are just a couple of examples. Be sure to visit their YouTube channel for more.

​

01/31/2017:
Also check out the review by Brother @Charles P. Jefferies found here: Eurocom Tornado F5 (MSI 16L13) Review

02/15/2017:
A design defect has been corrected. The CMOS battery is placed on the inaccessible side of the motherboard, making is impossible to clear NVRAM properly with the motherboard installed. That problem has been corrected by using an extension cable to move the CMOS battery to the accessible side of the motherboard. Now NVRAM can be easily cleared by simply unplugging the CMOS battery.



02/17/2017:
Thermal management testing added to review. See post #227 for more details.

 

Here comes the good stuff...

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VIDEOS

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[TR3] [/TR3]

​

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PHOTOS & SCREEN SHOTS & INITIAL BENCHMARKS

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Note: none of the benchmarks posted in this section are offered as examples of complete tuning and highest performance capabilities. They were primarily for thermal testing and I have not actually begun tuning this machine yet. So, just down and dirty overclocking that is not optimal. But, the scores look nice in spite of that. Examples of "real" overclocking will be placed in post #3 below. The images in this post are static views of what is shown in the review video.
*Click to open spoiler*

Spoiler: Graphs - Thermals and Benchmarks

*Click to open spoiler*

Spoiler: Benchmark Screen Shots

 

Let the mayhem begin!!!

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CRIPPLED STOCK FIRMWARE RESULTS (Firmware Mods Pending)

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3DMark 11 - P22551 - CPU 5.0GHz | GPU +215 Core / +550 Memory: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11937906

Fire Strike - 19200 - CPU 4.9GHz | GPU +215 Core / +550 Memory: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11537407

Sky Diver - 41150 - CPU 4.9GHz | GPU +215 Core / +550 Memory: http://www.3dmark.com/sd/4511528

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PREMA BIOS MOD HAS BEEN DEPLOYED - WE HAVE LIFT-OFF!!

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@Prema BIOS is working like a charm, as we would expect from El Jefe... Memory seems completely stable at 3000. BCLK works, 0% spread spectrum... it's all looking real good.




Here's a 3DMark 11 with a moderate overclock. Windows 7 rocks.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11944150


http://valid.x86.fr/igp6v8


http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11946356

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11572495


Heaven & Valley - Extreme Presets - CPU set at 4.7GHz and GPU running with stock clocks.


http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11982307

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11691518


Terror in a small package. Here is a new #1 score for single GTX 1080 Notebook GPU.
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/12189174

Spoiler: Power Utilitzation

And, a new #1 score for single 1080 Notebook GPU in Time Spy
http://www.3dmark.com/spy/1793791#


http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12693072


http://hwbot.org/submission/3556996_
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12693141


http://hwbot.org/submission/3556998_
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12693191

 

@Mr. Fox
Thank you for your character, enthusiasm, humanity and the endless time spent in dedication to all of us!
Thank you for all the reviews, tutorials and risking your own hardware to help wherever you can!
Thank you for being our mentor, playmate and friend, thank you for being one of us!
In the name of the entire Notebook Enthusiast Community Rebels:

Happy Birthday!

Pssst...I think you can actually click that ↑↑↑​

 

I'm psyched out of my mind!



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

Don't forget to make a nice review in a separate thread for the 780W adapter. It deserves it.

Looking forward to the performance of this beast.

 

Updated post #1 and #2.

@ssj92 - if all goes as planned that review will be posted tomorrow. That is my intent. You can get a glimpse of it in both of the above videos.

 

Very nice! I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but based on the photos, it looks like a very thorough review. Can you share what fan speed your thermal readings were taken at?

 

Thanks. I hope you enjoy the videos. I will try to have the teardown video editing done and uploaded by Friday.

Max fan. This machine would benefit from fans that run faster and push more air. I'm sure the focus was on making a machine that was pleasantly quiet. Even with max fans it's not even remotely close to being loud. I tested that on my wife for confirmation, too. I could leave it on max fans 24/7 and not irritate her, and that is saying a lot. She is very noise-sensitive (as are many females). I also tested the decibel levels in the review video.

 

So... @Mr. Fox... where'd you get that DDR4 30,000MHz RAM?

 

From @Prema, of course.

Thanks. Let me fix that.

 

Great review so far @Mr. Fox. Seems you have the same initial impressions that many other users have had so far. The USB ports only being on the right side was definitely the weirdest design choice/flaw I have noticed. With TB3 on the back I have thought about getting a multi usb dongle.

Also while I know it's not fully supported yet, or even available for purchase the 120Hz display once installed in this laptop is amazing and completes this laptop as a gaming beast.

 

Well done sir. Well done. The urge to upgrade to a new laptop has been virtually dead for me for quite some time now because of the way things are now with locked firmware, GPU upgrades, temps, etc. The industry as a whole just turns me off.

This little monster may change that.

 

Thanks brother. Looks like there are plenty of good options out there. Still doesn't excuse the serious oversight that is all USB 3.0 ports on the right side, but good knowing that single port on the back can power a heck of a lot of other ports via a dongle.

 

The BGA model actually has 1 extra USB port on the leftside.

 

There's going to be some give and take, but overall it seems like a no-brainer choice. I think the BGA model may also have one less M.2 slot inside the chassis. The BGA part is a deal-killer, but the additional internal storage capacity makes the victory even sweeter. Having a USB port on the left side won't fix those serious design inadequacies.

 

yea with this laptop model the bga version is worthless.

btw does your model come with a block of mozarella cheese under the m.2 drive?

1:37

 

I don't know. I never removed the M.2 SSD to look. Will take a peek at that the next time I have the bottom cover off. That is one very thick thermal pad, LOL. With that much air space, I'd probably get one of those M.2 NVMe cooler blocks on eBay and attach it to the SSD instead of using the pad.

 

@Mr. Fox

Based off what you seen thus far, you think it is possible to hit a stable 5.2 in this monster? That is my goal, at least for OC'ing purposes, to hit.

 

I believe that will be doable if this is a nicely binned sample of 7700K. If the cooling system is up to it, maybe even 5.3GHz or higher using my cold air AC-assist. Since I have only had it about 48 hours, I have not had time to do any meaningful tuning. I'm working during the day, and after work focusing on finishing the teardown/delid video (may upload that tonight) and I have a review for the 780W AC adapter that needs to be done. The insane overclocking stunts may have to wait until this weekend.

The stock BIOS has some limitations and I also need to get that unlocked. There is no way to set XMP in the BIOS or with XTU, so the RAM is running at 2400 right now. In fact, I've even been too busy to finish tuning the max overclock on the 7700K in my P870DM3. The nice thing is we can try what works on one 7700K with the other and tweak as needed to fine-tune.

I'll also be doing a review on the Phoenix Edition of the EVOC P870DM3 as soon as everything is finished with firmware mods on that leviathan. Once @Prema is at a stopping point on the BIOS mod roll-out for the lesser Clevos, we can finalize the 1080 vBIOS mod. When that is finished, then my P870DM3 Alienkiller II review will follow.

Edit: looks like I need to update my signature as well. Might be about time for me to retire El Cazador. This new 15-inch boss takes no prisoners.

 

Take your time bro, I know you're a busy man. The good thing is that your review hits on most of the points I was going to write about in my own review (besides my opposite take on Eurocom, but I won't go into that). What I'm going to do is write up a duel between my MSI 16LXX and a MSI GT73VR I have on hand.

 

this might be something worthwhile: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9F94Z10596

user review (in french): http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Hardware/SSD/test-radiateur-slot-sujet_1006816_1.htm

once i switch to Nvme PCIe SSD, ill definitely get that heatsink kit it provides about 15 C lower max. temps and keeps the drive at max. 60 C without ventilation, thus no throttling even under heavy load

 

Thanks. Ordered it.

 

Updated opening post:

 

OK, updated post #2 with the teardown/delid video. Hope you guys like it.

 

:0

do you plan to replace thermal pads?

 

Here is some FHD and 4K wallpapers. Feel free to tweak it and share with the rest of us. Thanks to @Eurocom Support for sharing it.

4K Resolution

FHD 1080p Resolution

@Diversion

 

If I need to, I will. I replaced one that was ruined during the original assembly before I received it (shown in the video). No point in doing replacing new pads if the temps are good. So far the GPU temps seem decent enough, but will do more stress testing of the GPUs to verify that.

 

Updated post #3 with some new benchmark scores.

3DMark 11 - P22551 - CPU 5.0GHz | GPU +215 Core / +550 Memory: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11937906
Fire Strike - 19200 - CPU 4.9GHz | GPU +215 Core / +550 Memory: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11537407
Sky Diver - 41150 - CPU 4.9GHz | GPU +215 Core / +550 Memory: http://www.3dmark.com/sd/4511528

Clevo FINALLY has some single GPU notebook competition. This is with a severely crippled stock BIOS (TDP limited... for now, but my dump files are in very capable hands) and a vBIOS limiting the 1080 to only 150W max. Once unlocked, look out... here comes trouble... not a BGA turdbook.

 

how long we wait till 1080 with full tdp unlock bios?

 

Not sure yet. BIOS mods are still underway. Flashing Pascal requires manual programming (no NVFLASH access) and a special low-voltage adapter. I just received the one I ordered a few days ago. Hopefully, not too much longer.

Just added a few more to post #3... CPU has TDP throttling. Firmware appears to be limited to 91W stock 7700K TDP right now, so it loses clocks at any load that requires more than 91W. Settings 50x4 ends up being 50x1 and 48x3 under full tilt load. 51x4 settles in around 49x4, etc. That should be gone once we get the BIOS properly unlocked, but thankfully, I am not seeing the nasty EC-induced "current limit throttling" like what @Prema worked so hard to fix on the Clevo BIOSes.

 

have you tried to pay svet a visit?

 

I spoke with him back in October about unlocking the BIOS when @Diversion was the first. We delayed me getting the review unit for the "Extreme Edition" with 7700K and 1080 instead of 6700K and 1070. I haven't reached out to him again. I may take a different approach on this. If that does not work out, I will definitely be asking him to unlock it. It needs it... real bad.

 

Hello,
First of all I was really looking forward to you receiving the laptop so as to see the true limits of Tornado F1. While reading your review and comments I noticed something that caught my attention. Are you able to change the voltage limit of gtx 1080 through MSI afterburner? I have the gtx 1070 version and I am not able to do so. Also, the "optimized voltage" you mention was made through XTU I suppose?

 

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/11537407/fs/11469168 Damn, you're already on my tail after two days...without unlocked BIOS, lol Time to delid this thing.

 

So fox is limited to 91w using 7700K, how about rage set with the unlocked bios?

 

You can use XTU or ThrottleStop. I use both, but not simultaneously. Doing so causes some control conflicts and unexpected behaviors. They are both indispensable utilities, especially when what you need to change has been hidden in the BIOS by some idiot that thinks we should not have access to it. ThrottleStop is absolutely the better of the two tools, but XTU is sometimes required as "blunt force" since it can actually change BIOS settings on hidden menus. ThrottleStop does not write any value to the BIOS (which, as a general rule, is a good thing).

I cannot increase the voltage using MSI Afterburner. However, the same CFG tweak that enabled that for Maxwell and Kepler unlocks that slider and maxing it out seems to help all 3 of my 1080 GPUs fluctuate core clocks and voltage less. You won't see a remarkable improvement or a drastic change in behavior since NVIDIA gimped that part of Pascal. Here is a link to the GUIDE TO ENABLE VOLTAGE CONTROL IN MSI AFTERBURNER. Even on laptops where this works (Maxwell and Kepler) you only get an extra 0.100V so it's not very useful because that's not enough to take me where my overclocking ventures lead. BUT, this tweak is very useful to the extent you can see the voltage displayed in the UI of MSI Afterburner. Without that tweak, there's nothing visible there... just empty space.

Nice score, bro. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to make up that small difference with the stock BIOS.

 

I suspect a resistor hard-mod (or unlocked vBIOS) would yield more dramatic results since 10X0N are mainly bottlenecked by power.

 

Is there is any plans to have the same concept with 17" SLI model?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

 

Yes, that is in development now.

 

The Clevo is not the only player any more. It's good for us to have a competitors for the real DTR industry.

 

Meanwhile, back at the laboratory... with the blessing of @Eurocom Support... a cure for the cancer is forthcoming.
**CLICK TO OPEN SPOILER**

Spoiler: Photos of Surgical Procedure - Viewer Discretion Advised

Muuuuah-aaaahhhh-aaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!! *twists handlebar mustache*

Spoiler

@Phoenix @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER @Prema @D2 Ultima @Diversion @Rage Set @bloodhawk

 

We have 17.3" Tornado F7 coming in few months with SLI support for both P5500 and 1080. Another killer model from Eurocom. Follow us on Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/EurocomTech

 

Will the chassis be based off of the one with mechanical keyboard (GT83VR) or based on similar design to F5 keyboard (GT73VR)?

 

Tornado F7 is new mechanical design currently in planning phase. So if there are any special features you would like to see just email to [email protected]

 

I'm already following Eurocom since 1989, it was always my dream laptop since then, I owned the P570WM (Eurocom Panther 5) and I'm owning the Sky X9E now, and I'll wait for the new model, I'm sure it will be very interesting.

Eurocom always a proactive leaders and others follow, all respect.

 

Now I'm definitely going to be left in the dust. I eagerly await your results because this means, you will truly will have the most powerful 15'' DTR around. Amazing job bro!

 

Whitebook GT83VR then?

Let's hope it isn't BGA