*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

I'm not sure we'll be able to upgrade. The chipset here is a Z170, and the article talks about the Coffee Lake prerelease CPU running with a Z200 series (presumably Z270) chipset.

That being said, I would love to be able to drop a 6 core CPU into my EVOC, even if I had to back off raw clock speed to do so. I run a lot of multithreaded applications.

 

User error! Imagine 4 of those fans like this

 

http://www.mobipicker.com/intel-coffee-lake-6-core-4-core-processors-detailed-fresh-leak/

I was going off of what that article was suggesting, but definitely not 100%.

Here is the relevant quote.
'In addition, it is also worthy to note that this specific 6 core chip was tested on the Kaby Lake-S client system. This means that the chip was running off a 200-series PCH based motherboard. If that’s true, Coffee Lake would retain compatibility not only with LGA 1151 socket but with also currently available motherboards'

That part in the end about it working with 'also currently available motherboards', I thought would mean it'll cover us as well.

EDIT: Yeah very little information on Z170 compatibility yet with Coffee Lake as you mentioned. Keeping my fingers crossed, but knowing Intel, they'll probably just milk the market of another MB.

 

@Eurocom Support - just started testing brand new GeForce 382.05 drivers. Mixed results. Some good and some bad with new driver.

On the Tornado F5 the screen backlight turns off like all other drivers after 378.78 do. I may end up going back to the 60Hz G-Stink screen until MSI and NVIDIA can work out their issues.

As for the P870DM3 and SLI it was a great improvement. SLI is working now, so that is very good. See screen shot.

New problem, RTSS OSD causes the game to freeze at the first screen with menu selection options to start the game. I tried all three rendering modes (2D, 3D and Vector), tried stealth mode and custom DX support and all have the same problem. If I shut down RTSS the game launches normally. So, I cannot monitor thermals while playing. The problem with RTSS OSD causing the game to freeze happens with SLI enabled or disabled. I will test Gears of War Ultimate and see if it is only GoW4 that has the problem.

Another problem, but not for me since I do not use v-sync. After updating to the new patch from the Redmond Mafia, v-sync was changed to enabled by default. I was having really horrible screen artifacts on menus in GoW4. I found v-sync enabled. Turned it off and artifacts were immediately gone. For those than feel v-sync is good and wish to use it, this will not set well. But, but for me it’s fine since I hate v-sync and always have it disabled.

 

Is @Eurocom Support even paying attention to this forum?

 

We don't see much of them now. I think it may have been Braden that was here on a frequent basis, but Braden is gone now. He and his girlfriend bought an RV and are traveling abroad in Canada, living wild and free.

I did send Mark a link to this driver issue so he could be aware of it and talk to MSI about NVIDIA drivers being broken with the 120Hz screen. I certainly hope not, but the problem might be that MSI doesn't care since they don't offer this screen on the 16L13.

 

Folks, what kind of thermal paste/LM do you use for CPU/GPU? I picked up some grizzly conductonaut and was wondering if I can use it for GPU as well, after using kapton tape to surround the GPU itself. Also, can you use LM instead of thermal paste between the IHS and the heatsink?

 

gpu lm don't have much temp improvement over normal paste

 

@Mr. Fox
The issue has happened with a past driver before from around February time but it was fixed in the next update. I do not remember the driver version I just remember having the same issue.

I ended up ordering the 4k eDP cable and will be ordering a 4k screen when I receive the cable, just not sure which one I want to go with yet .

I need the new drivers to play the new Mass effect or else it runs like crap, so I keep having to play hooked up to my 4k samsung TV, and so far the 1070 with a slight overclock has kept up brilliantly at 4k, a few drops below 30fps but mostly a consistent 50 or higher. So that was my confirmation that it is time to go with a 4k screen, that and nvidia breaking my screen when I want to update...

 

Guys, here is the reply I received from Aavid.
-------
Good morning,

These are fan products that Aavid makes specifically for our many laptop manufacturer customers and we do not currently offer standard offerings for these.

Best I can offer would be to see if I may get you a few replacements of the PABD19735BM -N322 for your machines, I am guessing these are around 4 years old and the fans have reached their MTBF hours.

How many of these replacement fans are needed?

Let me know,

Thank you,
--------

So they won't even tell us the specs for our stock blower, and I'm not sure what good the replacement fans will be. I'll push him a bit further to see if he can recommend another model and let you guys know.

 

Yes on the last one. I have Conductonaut on top as well. They key to it working well is a properly fitting heat sink. If the heatsink fits correctly it will be notably better than anything else.

 

Fantastic. I was watching your delid video again last night and saw you used thermal paste for GPU and between IHS and heat sink. I figured the video is tad bit outdated and you've made bunch of improvements on it since, so I wanted to ask to find out for sure.

As for the heat sink fitting, it all seems bit confusing to me. I see you used a copper square, and I see others lapping the IHS and heat sink, do you have any recommendations on how to best verify/modify the fitting?

 

I have never used ordinary thermal paste, always liquid metal, underneath the IHS.

Except when heat sink fit is too poor to allow it, I have been using only liquid metal on CPUs (including bare die laptop CPUs) for about 4 years now. I often do not find it beneficial on GPUs. Overclocked CPUs get hotter than GPUs. There is also the issue of heat saturation. It won't make any difference what thermal interface material you are using if the heat sink and fans cannot do enough to get rid of the heat they collect fast enough. Having excellent thermal transfer from the CPU/GPU to heat sink when there is nowhere for that heat to go is kind of an exercise in futility.

What you saw in the video was a copper shim used to increase contact area and pressure. When contact and pressure are poor this can make a big difference. When contact and pressure are good using a shim can be an impediment or the same as not using one. The only way to know for certain is to try it both ways and confirm which way produces the best results.

You can test contact using prescale (tactile surface pressure) film, but the stuff is extremely expensive for something you are going to use once and throw away. It works fantastic, yet I generally save that for a last step when the stuff from my normal bag of tricks isn't working and I need to understand why, but only because it is so insanely expensive. If it were not so crazy expensive it would always be my first step.

 

Quick update on the fans
---
I am not sure what we will be able to offer/suggest to meet your request for a more efficient fan, however I have forwarded your reply to our manufacturing/engineering in China where we make these to see what they may have,

I will let you know what they say,

In the meantime you do not need replacements, correct?
-----

Does anyone need spare stock fans?

 

Well, that's unfortunate. Apparently, they do understand these are all basically brand new fans that are not even close to being worn out. It's sad if they do not want to help us identify and sell us more efficient fans. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain if they would help us fix what MSI cut corners on.

 

If you have a way to get stock ones, I would consider getting a pair if the price isn't ridiculous. My stock ones made awful noise right from the factory.

 

@alaskajoel , let me find out what the Chinese manufacturer has to say about the new fans first. If it turns out to be a dead end, I'll coordinate with Aavid to see if we can get a bulk discount on stock blowers for everyone in the community.

 

@Mr. Fox , truly appreciate the tip as usual. I was thinking 'how expensive can this film be?' but true to your word, damn thing is expensive as hell.

https://www.amazon.com/Fujifilm-Prescale-Tactile-Pressure-Indicating/dp/B004S269UQ

I'll follow your example and pick up some copper shims just in case I need it. Also, I noticed this on your video, did it come like that or did you put it on there? Looks like a strip of thermal pad, but wanted to make sure.

 

It came that way. I replaced it with a large square pad. No change noticed on the CPU, but the GPU might be hotter than before. Now I think I am going to test with nothing. I might even slip a piece of corrugated cardboard in there and leave the screws out to compare temps. I have always viewed unified heat sinks as being crappy, and while this is not soldered (thank God) it think isolating the CPU and GPU might work better. We're going to find out whenever I decide to check my theory. I think each component is better off fending for itself and not pooping on the guy's lawn next door.

 

Well, well, well. What do you think, guys? Looks like an improvement to me.

 

@Mr. Fox has motivated me to finally run Cinebench R15 on my own machine. This is at 4.7 GHz CPU lock, and GPU at +150 MHz core, +300 MHz VRAM.



EDIT: By request, here are the temps:

CPU: Max temp 78C, running the CPU part of the test.
GPU: Max temp 53C, running the GPU part of the test.

 

Nice job! What are the CPU core temps like? The CPU score is exactly where it should be.

GPU should run pretty cool with OGL, even with an OC. Seems DX pushes more heat. You may find your FPS on OGL is the same overclocked or stock. It hardly creates any load on the GPU at all. Probably a test better suited for Intel integrated graphics. I ran mine stock for the OGL test.

 

New Firmware for Samsung 960 PRO/EVO

 

Honestly, I didn't measure. The benchmarks ran so quickly, I don't think it would have even had time to get up to temp. I can re-run and measure if you're really interested.

 

Please do. I'd be interested to know. Others can use it for comparison. Cinebench really works the CPU hard. It might be warmer than you are thinking. It's one of the best OC stability tests you can use, too. If your overclock is not stable, Cinebench will crash every time.

 

hey guys !! i just ordered my first laptop with a desktop cpu. im very nervous/excited!!! i sent back my Alienware 17r4 7820hk with gtx 1080, i really liked the system i got them temps under control with a LM repaste but the system was just to big for what i sue it for. so i had a few question how do the fan sound on auto when gaming? are they louder then the alienware or about the same? in the aw17 i was able to set my fan to about 3220 rpm and it kept my temps at around 80c or less but staid quiet. i was really hoping it would be close to the same with this system. i ordered form HIDEvolution.

 

I sent Nvidia some "feedback" via their button in GeCancer Experience about the 120Hz display brightness control issue, and the recent backlight issue. I included our build as well as screen model # and manufacturer. While I doubt it will help or may fall on deaf ears I think we need to start sending them feedback and create a few threads on their official forums if we hope this will be fixed eventually.

 

With a proper undervolt on the 7700K and realistic clock speed, liquid metal paste and fans ramped up (they are quiet IMO) you should be able to easily achieve those temps. You're going to love this machine IMO. Did you go for the 120hz panel?

 

Yes I went with 120hz and Separately I ordered the 7700k it was only 299 on newegg and I had a gift card for 100 . I have done a delid before so I should be fine with that .. I hope the screen is better then the AW as well


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Congrats. You're going to be amazed at how much more powerful this is.

I think the fans are too quiet. I don't know what your Alienware sounded like with max fans but I run mine full blast almost all the time and they are hardly even noticeable to me. I'd gladly tolerate louder fans if they were more powerful.

 

Thanks for the info !! I'm extremely excited about the system and I really hope it will have an upgrade path with the future GPU and CPU obviously that's no guarantee but that would be pretty amazing


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Nvidia released new 382.05 drivers, apparently offering better performance for SLI in GOW4 and other performance enhancements. I am going to test the drivers soon.

 

Here you are. I also updated my original post to add this data for future reference.

CPU: Max temp 78C, running the CPU part of the test.
GPU: Max temp 53C, running the GPU part of the test.

Those are with fans on manual max, but as you can see it would probably have been just fine with auto-mode fans.

 

You're going to love this machine, and HIDevolution as a reseller. Those folks really "get" customer relationship-building.

 

Thanks for the info. I'm curious to see if you observe any improvements (or problems) with the new firmware.

 

Heh. I was going to do so, but GeForce Experience updated itself, and now it's just a mostly-blank window (with some title graphics) for me. How...ummm...helpful -- NOT!

Guess I'll install the drivers the old fashioned way.

 

Works great for 1080 SLI. Makes my 120Hz screen go black on the TF5. And, that's even a @j95 mod.

Use @j95 mod and skip the GFE unless you have some really special need for it. I think it's junk and haven't installed it in a couple years. With his mod you delete all but 5 folders with the bare necessities for your GPU to work it's best. No NVIDIA spyware or worthless bloatware.

Very nice! Thank you for posting it. Looks like your CPU temp was the same as mine at the same CPU clock speed with max fans. Cray-cray.

I punch the button as soon as I get to the desktop and pretty much just leave my fans running at max speed continuously until I turn my system off again.

 

Very cool, what did you have for the static voltage override in your BIOS? This is on 4.7GHz correct? *I can't download the images internet is a bit slow today*

I used AIDA 64 stress test, running on 4.4GHz and 1030 static and I still hit the 97 range on the CPU and 90 on GPU, is this normal for a stress test? I run it for 10 miniutes and didn't crash.
@Mr. Fox what do you think?

 

Probably the thermal paste. Do you still have AS5 on it?

 

4K Random Read went up from 55K to 57K, everything else is the same. Could be a margin of error though who knows

 

Yeah still waiting for IC Diamond paste to arrive in the mail.

 

I just watched a review video Do you have to run the fans on Max to keeps the temps down


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1.150 V static override. I'd like to go a little lower, but this voltage has been very, very stable for me, and I'm not inclined to risk more undervolt. I can get CPU temps to 90C in synthetic benchmarks if I try, but they never go that high during my actual workload (3D renders, lightmap bakes, etc.), so there is no incentive to push the undervolting limit further.

To answer your other question, this is with 4.7 GHz clock regardless of core count.

 

Got my Tornado a few weeks ago, and first thing I did was open it up and put 2 sticks of RAM behind the motherboard and a M.2 for the operating system. When I had everything back in place, flipped the laptop over, plugged in the power supply, and hit the power button. The screen back light lit briefly, then the screen went dark... no display. I took the back off again, just to make sure I didn't leave anything disconnected, then tried it again. This time, the Eurocom Tornado F5 logo displayed, so I installed Windows 10.

For the first week that I owned it, this kind of behavior continued somewhat randomly... looking back on it, it seemed to toggle between working and not when I opened/closed the screen. I got advice to turn off automatic driver updates (a separate issue occurred where I would get the Bios logo, then the screen would go blank with a purple-ish artifact during the Windows load), and locked out driver updates for the 1070 adapter.

After that, the problem seemed to go away... until this weekend. I played games with a friend most of yesterday, and shut the computer down before going to bed - closing the screen before I left the room. This morning, I opened the screen and turned on the computer, and again the screen stayed blank. This time, however, I had my 2nd monitor plugged in to the HDMI port, and when Windows started up, the 2nd monitor worked just fine.

Looking at my display settings, I see both monitors. The Scale & Layout, Resolution, and Orientation controls for the laptop screen are blank and disabled, and when I change the display to Duplicate instead of Extend, Windows tells me that "The display settings could not be saved. Please try a different combination of display settings".

I don't believe it's a driver issue, since the screen stays blank from booting. I seem to recall reading something about pinched monitor ribbon/cables (wanted to read this whole thread before posting, but only got to page 450), but I cannot see them when I take the back off.

Is there a way to visually inspect the ribbon/cable without removing the screen or motherboard? I'm really hoping to avoid sending it back for service, as I've retired my old tower and am loathe to return to it. But if I have to take the screen off to inspect the ribbon/cable, I might as well look into getting a 120mhz screen and replacing it while I"m at it.

Edit: I'm killing me - returned to reading on page 451, and there saw @woodzstack respond to something that sounds similar to my situation. Now that I know where the cable is, I'm starting to wonder if maybe I didn't install it firmly. I'll take the back off and double check it.

 

I think that's your answer to the crazy high temperatures. AS5 is terrible, and it was mixed with CLU if I remember correctly. Things should get better when you get the ICD and start fresh with squeaky-clean surfaces before applying the new compound.

 

Yes, if I want it to stay nice and cool, but I run my systems at a minimum of 4.7GHz with c-states and power saving features disabled. If I run it stock with reduced voltage and enable all the tree-hugger crap I don't need to.

 

are you enjoying the new SSD Firmware update bro?

 

Not yet. Been busy working with Prema on BIOS mods and haven't taken a few minutes to do that yet. Maybe later today.

 

Mr. Fox >>>

 

With the Nvidia issue, Bios/ And Eurocom splash screen display fine. Windows loads into a black screed, external monitor works fine. You can know for sure if it is the driver issues by shining a flashlight at the black screen on your laptop and see if you can see your desktop. With the driver issue the backlight is not being addressed correctly so you can see windows on the screen if you get a flashlight at the correct angle.

.......
Other issue, if it is the cable, luckily it is fairly simple to replace and check but it is easier if you remove the heatsinks. It could also be on the monitor side, which is also easy to check, the bezel pops right off with no issues. If you need a new cable they are readily available on ebay for fairly cheap(unless you have a 4k screen) If you need the 4k cable I know of a couple sellers but you have to import them. I have one on the way but it won't be in for a little while.