*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

I'm not going to even do quotes thi stiff is so hilarious. 1.8V? Not sure how you are getting 1.8V from a max of 1.375V.
This reads 1.511 VID, but it adds up to 1.375V Max
And I don't see ANYONE (Just notice that @bloodhawk is added to this list) running 5.5 ghz, but me.

 

Guys - voltage is your driving force. Trying to undervolt and have performance is like trying to run your car on fumes.

It's like turning down the voltage with a pot added on, or a dead battery for a flash light... guess you still have light though, just not as bright or not as fast..

sure you can control temps that way.

Trying to aim for a clock speed but barely have the juice to run it, you might as well run a lower clock speed and the same voltage, the performance might be the same, if the bottle neck is the voltage.

 

That's great, delidding makes even more sense in a laptop than it does in a desktop - getting those temps under control!

 

absolutely true.

@Johnksss@iBUYPOWER thats another system not the F5 not sure what my voltage was in that laptop (well mine was KM1) and I don't see anyone saying they are running the F5 at 5.5Ghz

 

The problem is I see somneone saying they are running 1.8V in a laptop. That is the problem. You do not hold more testing experience than I do, so I'm correcting you.

No such thing at 1.8 1.7 1.6 anything in a laptop.So quit saying that. Especially not in an F5 anything.

 

Whoa there good sir -

 

Make that 2 people and still no such thing as 1.8V

 

Or 1.7V Have never seen it

 

it is indeed... and nope, thats at 22-25C ambient, back of the laptop raised by two bottle caps, max fans, delidded with gallinstan for die/ihs and kryonaut for ihs/heatsink. and oh, switched out the intel ihs for a bitspower model

done with realbench testing, unfortunately it doesnt give me enough stability not to bsod on me during everyday operation (especially when gaming and/or video transcoding), so im trying prime95 and occt now

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Here is a moderate CPU and GPU overclock, no AC cooling, just internal fans and the older U3 (without the Vardar fans).

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/19953495


Thermals and Power Management

 

@bloodhawk
So that means you have one of these now. Double nice!




Side note:
Still no 1.8/ 1.7/1.6V anywhere to be seen though....

 

I'll keep your "final gather" comment in mind. My project is not yet far enough along for me to have needed final gather lightmaps yet; I'm still just doing standard bakes. They took about 6.5 hours on my Macbook Pro but now take about 2.5 hours on my new EVOC monsterbook.

My test scene is a multistory office complex in a square kilometer of terrain with trees and grass, so my bakes aren't exactly small. I think my occlusion bakes are faster than yours because I'm able to use a coarser volume size.

 

Well, one thing that people should not miss about the Tornado F5/EVOC 16-L-1080 is that it is small. If it can ever match a single GPU P870 with 7700K in every measurement it will be miraculous with a smaller cooling system. That takes nothing away from this machine. It's only 15-inches and weighs a WHOLE LOT LESS, LOL. So, it doesn't have to match the P870 in every measurement of performance and still hold the performance crown as the most bad-ass 15-inch notebook on the planet. In fact, it already holds that title and I seriously doubt any other machine is going to take that trophy away from it any time in the near future... @Prema or Svet BIOS, it will still destroy all of the other 15-inch little bruisers out there. It's built great and runs extremely well for such a tiny little critter.

It is quiet. At least by my definition... creepy quiet, even.

Yes, if CPU voltage is too low that happens to me with Fire Strike. Maybe try 1.145V or go back to 1.150V or 1.160V for Fire Strike. Then you can put it back to the slightly lower voltage for other things if they are stable.

Right. Using a Clevo vBIOS for an Alienware that never had proper Maxwell support is an example. Swick BIOS made the M18xR2 better with Legacy support and no 8-beeps, but all of them under-perform and have throttling problems compared to systems that were made to support Maxwell. That has nothing to do with @Prema and everything to do with Alienware not supporting EOL systems. If they were worth keeping and upgrading I would still own one. They were the best of the best back in the day, but not anymore. No point in trying to upgrade them if you want the best performance available. You can make them better, but never get full functionality or performance from them now. Game over.

Very nice - congrats to you and @bloodhawk. I guess that needs to be next on my list of neat tricks. Not enough hours in a day to do everything that I need to, or want to, LOL.

 

Quiet enough to play in bed at night when my wife and kids go to bed i'm using an Alienware 17 are for right now


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Not just yet, but soooon.

 

Um... no. If you play in bed at night your wife and kids might be awakened by sirens from the fire department if you block off the air intake with blankets or pillows. Be sure to get a lap desk and use it on that or you will have a hot machine that has the internals clogged up with dust, lint, hair and all kinds of crud in no time at all.

This is what I use. I have two of them. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U1Y532

 

I know what you mean!
I need to actually see if that can go higher since that was done back in January.

Right Right!

@Cerreta28
Your wife actually goes for you playing computer games in the bed?

 

Yeah I have a little thing like that. Yes she does let me get away with it. I don't mess with it though until she's asleep so she doesn't really notice


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once i got my 24/7 clocks down ill also take another shot at 5.4 ghz. ive already seen it on my screen, just not stable enough for validation

and cmon boys, its all good, youre both pros at what you do @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER @woodzstack

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Forgive me for interrupting, (first post), but I've been eyeing this laptop for some time. My poor Clevo P150SM has essentially died, and I need a replacement DTR quickly. I have some questions I'd love some answers to, if you're all willing to answer. I have read through the thread, but after almost 600 pages, it all begins to blur together.

My questions are relatively simple:

For owners of the Tornado, does the keyboard have ghosting issues? I've seen reports that the Tornado has a 'Steel Series equivalent' keyboard, but it's unclear as to how it performs.

Secondly, how well does the Tornado deal with 'normal' travel? Some online reviews paint it as 'fragile' or 'vulnerable to flex', but they're non-specific as to what their models were subjected to.

Thirdly, for those who have owned the Pentile Samsung 4k screen and the 120Hz AUO screen, and have used both, which screen do you prefer? Is this a case of 6 of one and half-a-dozen of the other?

Fourthly, I recall (vaguely) reports of screw-stripping issues. Since I live in a...messy...house, how easy is it to A) unlock the bottom panel and B) to clean the keyboard/fans?

Fifthly, does any provider offer @Mr. Fox 's panel modifications?

Finally, is there likely to be an AMOLED/IGZO equivalent 'modern' screen?

This turned out to be slightly longer than I expected, apologies for that. I look forwards to your answers.

 

If you play a lot of games, and gaming is your primary purpose for this machine, then the 120Hz panel is your only real choice for a good experience.

What panel modifications exactly?

 

There is some FLEX in the bottom panel because it only has tone real peg in the middle sort of,and it otherwise maybe thinner than most laptop or not as stiff I should say.

Bleeding seems acceptable to me, you get it a bit yes.

The screws are not the greatest, I learnt this the hardway in december when I got my first one, there was one screw where it was in way too tight and I partially stripped it, I have then since taken more time and caution and had no issues. You will be fine if you take your time.

There are a few screens, IPS stock, LTN and TN digital ones for the 120Hz of 4K options.

And sorry to hear about the P150SM issues, if you like there are a multitude of repair options if you would like to exercise bringing it back to life as well.

 

I have not had any issues with key ghosting on the keyboard. It is a steel series keyboard and has been great so far. It has decent travel, is well lit, and has a nice push back feel.

The body is a little thick, but with a decent bag the laptop travels well, in my opinion, and certainly better than anything else that comes equipped with the GTX 1080. It is well built. When traveling realize that this thing comes with a massive power brick.

I don't have experience with the 4k screen, but the 120 Hz panel is great. For a TN panel it has great viewing angles and colors pop with decent accuracy. It isn't going to outperform an IPS screen in that regard however. HID is currently the only seller that has the panel fix for the 120 Hz screen in the works as far as I know. I'm sure that Eurocom will be utilizing the fix as well, but I haven't confirmed that. The screen has a great refresh rate and I would personally take that over the 60 Hz refresh of the other options. Other members who need the resolution have expressed that the 4k panel is a great panel. I'd imagine you can't go wrong either way. Ask yourself if you prefer fast clear motion, or if you prefer sharp resolution. With many games you'll probably want to run them at 1080p and have the 4k panel scale to final resolution as running at 4k on the GTX 1080 works, but at lower frame rates unless you are willing to sacrifice detail and IQ.

I've heard some of the screws can be soft, but if you use a properly fitted driver, then it shouldn't really be an issue. I wouldn't let that stop you from ordering this beast screws are easily replaceable.

The bottom cover mod that was pioneered by @Mr. Fox will be offered through HID. HID is a great option if you don't want to delid the cpu on your own as they will do it for you. If you want to go with Kaby Lake I'd argue that delidding is a must. HID is a well regarded seller on this forum for great reasons.

Hope this helps!

 

As far as your question about the screen goes, I think it depends on what you are trying to use the laptop for and what you are doing on it. I have not used this laptop yet with either of these screens, but I can tell you after moving to a 144hz monitor on my desktop, I cannot go back to lower than 120hz if I am trying to play competitive/fast paced games. If you play CSGO or Overwatch or other FPS games and that's something you care about I 100% say go with the 120hz. If you care about resolution and do video/picture editing and need that space and have never used anything higher than 60hz before and you want that extra space then go with the 4k. I think they both are better for different things but all the reviews tend to say both screens are of good quality that I have seen.

 

I wouldn't argue.

I'd declare it as fact.

If you want to have a good time, anyway.

 

actually, its a combo of the two @cpu and memory @MageTank

 

Yeah, I was being intentionally cheeky, lol. I've actually been working on a comprehensive memory overclocking guide. Hopefully I can get my hands on one of these laptops soon, with various "tweaked" BIOS's so that I can include a laptop segment.

CPU/Memory overclocking tends to shine the most when it comes to minimum framerates, the most ignored, yet simultaneously the most important framerate of all. It's part of the reason I wanted a desktop CPU in the first place, as I do not trust the turbo-boost tables of those BGA chips, and an unlocked multiplier/BCLK means I can dictate my own speeds at all times.

 

good man

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I've always seen 25C or better from the stock pasting - but let me add that, I believe the temps would have improved, but the systems were pasted and not really given time to "cure" the thermal paste , sometimes the temps improve a good amount by just letting the system heatup and be in use for a few days.

But I doubt it would go more then 5-10C, so delidding for sure betters temps by a worthwhile amount.

 

yeah the discussion is a dead horse, no offense, probably my fault. It was brought to my attention I skipped some important words when reading and what is being read as is not what I am trying to say.

You can not SET to 1.8v directly. On auto it can go as high as it wants, or could at least with the default bios it had from MSI, I've had higher voltages reported at IDLE then when I was in load, and as i tried to suggest I wouldn't test load because I knew it would not work out well. But I also skipped past a part someone was saying idle voltage goes up some how for no reason, and load goes to what it was set at or what is actually being used... either way someone reading knew what I was saying better than I could have said it hence the whole argument being off.

As for that score, its not alone, I have tons.

You all assume it's some trick, but it's not.

I do not get what would make it essentially a trick or cheating. There is no editting of anything, that is the software reporting what was physically set to and the bench run at. (I was subzero - not nitrogen just -45C outside but who cares, that's even technically less cheating, no ? I also used Air cooling from a high powered blast of air as well. I even have an 8Ghz one and a 5, and 6, and various other results, too... was my Favorite laptop for awhile.)

 

Because memory overclocking doesn't provide as much gain as cpu overclocking! I believe Ryzen may be different, but Intel chips don't really care about ultimate memory speed. It may help to eek out a few more points in benching, but the time is better spent getting your cpu clocks and voltages set first, then worrying about ram clocks.

 

Depends on the game, but yes, yes it does. The problem is most people tested memory OCs with large timing differences in the past. And even though it doesn't show maximum framerate improvements in some titles, the minimum framerate does get a massive bonus too.

 

The software used tends to get it's voltages from whatever the sensor says, and the sensor itself can often be tricked. I myself have done this several times, and it's relatively easy to do. It's also why the experts refuse to trust thermal sensors, and use thermal probes instead. Simply put: sensors are great for the most part, but not the "be all, end all" for accuracy.

I have to disagree. I've personally seen significant gains in my minimum framerates on modern Intel platforms. Upwards of 20% depending on the title. This is with a 6700k and GTX 1070 at 1440p mind you, a very common use-scenario. Others have reported similar findings as well on the other forums I frequent. I would link Digital Foundry's videos on the subject, but their use of a Titan Xp is simply not common, and over-inflates memory's value for average framerates. I do implore you to test your minimum framerates at various memory speeds, as you are almost certainly going to see significant differences, regardless of your platform.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1487162/...affect-fps-during-high-cpu-overhead-scenarios
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/486004-impact-of-memory-speed-on-gaming-performance/ (outdated, and done on a Pentium, you can still read the posts from others that show their results)
If you need more sources, let me know, as I do have others with various hardware configurations.

I also have a guide in my sig for memory overclocking if you do end up curious enough to want to test this yourself. If you are doing so on a laptop, I'd love to see your results as I am currently waiting to test this myself.

 

yup I agree

 

I bumped it back to 1.150, which has been stable with FireStrike since I got the machine, and it is still failing. I'm probably going to try uninstalling and reinstalling FS, since it's just a steam app anyway.

 

Oh wait. If you are using the newest version that ends in 3693, it's bugged and does not work right. It always crashed on me. Sky Diver ran fine, but not Fire Strike. That might be the issue. 3DMark v2-2-3509 is stable. 3DMark v2-3-3693 is totally unstable.

Here's this. Ran it at 4.8GHz with automatic fans profile and temps were better than I expected they would be.

 

Did you already do 5.3 ghz?

And ever since they changed how cpuz validates, it's a lot harder now. No more of them "flubbed snapshot scores" that use to flood the top scores. It has to hold a load for at least 3 seconds and be stable coming out of it to validate.

Pro's don't need to flub scores for recognition i'm afraid. They wipe and do it again the right way. Or make jokes about it whole heartily when they and the rest of the world know it's 100% fake.

 

Seems a lot of others are having the same problem as me: https://steamcommunity.com/app/223850/discussions/0/135513549095802956/

It's just a badly b0rk3n release. I'm going back to my undervolt.

 

Yes, that it certainly is. While I certainly love throwing stones at Micro$loth for Windows 10 being a piece of garbage, I cannot blame Creators Abortion for this (as the Steam thread title suggests) because this release of 3DMark has Fire Strike messed up on any OS. It crashes on Windows 7 as well. Futuremark just messed it up, and it has been broken for a while now (since v2.3.3693 came out). I'm kind of surprised they haven't fixed it already. Maybe they don't know how yet.

I like Sky Diver better anyway. It is a better workout for the CPU overclock (so is Time Spy) than Fire Strike, and it actually gives you more credit in the overall score for having a more powerful CPU. Fire Strike gives too much of a pass to BGA turdbooks in the weighting of the overall score. But, we know this already and that's why the BGA kids only run Fire Strike benchmarks for the most part. It gives them a fluffy-looking score and helps them not be reminded of how pathetic and anemic their BGA turd CPU is.

 

I've got it working again, and with my undervolt.

On the Steam forums, I found that people were saying a background service process for 3DMark gets deleted during Windows upgrades. I went into the app's Properties panel in Steam Library, and told Steam to validate the local files. Steam checked and found no problems, which was discouraging. But then I attempted to run the app, and now my system prompted me to give permission for it to change system settings. 3DMark announced it was doing a "first time setup" (which it was not), and then it ran correctly after that.

Now, the puzzling thing is, I ran TimeSpy (demo only) and FireStrike (demo and benchmark) with my new undervolt setting. There were no stability problems, and the temps were very nice. CPU maxed at 78C, and GPU at 79C, running with fans on manual max.

That would be wonderful, except that my FireStrike score dropped by over 800 points since my last run! I'm not sure whether to attribute this to Nvidia's driver update, or the undervolt, or Windows Creator Edition. I rechecked my clock settings for GPU and CPU, and they have not changed since my last run.

My gut tells me it may be the Nvidia driver. Comments?

 

In a word, yes...

• If it is the newer version of Fire Strike that could be why it is 800 points lower.
• The newer GeForce drivers could be the reason it is 800 points lower (which is also why I am still using older drivers for overclocked benching).
• Windoze OS X Creators Abortion could also be why it is 800 points lower, but I think this is the least likely of the options mentioned. One or both of the other two are probable.

First thing to do is look at the score breakdown. Ignore the overall score for now. Compare the graphics score, physics score and combined score, individually, to your previous results that were 800 points higher. That might give you some clues where to focus your attention.

 

This one will give your little beast a nice workout as well. As much as Fire Strike. CPU pulled 77.2W and 1080 pulled 200.3W on one pass of this game benchmark. Something steals focus and minimizes it when you first launch it and it starts to load. So just alt+tab or click the taskbar icon to maximize it if that happens.

 

Thanks. This is going to have to wait a bit. I found that bumping my clock from 4.7 to 4.8 GHz was enough to make Unity unstable. I easily fixed this by simply putting the clock back to 4.7 GHz, but now I need to rebuild my lightmaps. That'll be all for tonight.

(To clarify, Unity was perfectly stable at 4.7 GHz and 1.140 V for me. It simply appears I can't bump the clock up *and* undervolt the CPU more -- which makes perfect sense.)

 

Would anyone be interested in a vapor chambered heatsink designed for this laptop, if one would somehow become available? Just wanted to gauge everyone's interest before potentially doing something really outrageous.

 

I certainly would.

@Mr. Fox, how are you getting 200 watts from the 16l when we are tdp limited to 150 w.

 

Impressive GTX 1080 wattage pull!

 

yep, sure did. will upload in a bit, on the move right now

good info on the new validation method, didnt know that! just noticed that i had to update cpu-z to the newest version, otherwise it wouldnt let me do it.

edit: https://valid.x86.fr/z4jyd9

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Oh, these are some excellent responses, thank you @D2 Ultima , @woodzstack , @leftsenseless , @Lunatics.

First off, the P150SM is on its last legs (It has to be kept on a stand at an angle otherwise *something* causes it to crash on start-up. Combining that with the 770M that's chugging badly already, and it's definitely in need of retirement.

If I may ask, has anyone on here tried using additional monitors with their Tornado/EVOC 16L-G-1080? My current Laptop had some, I think the best word would be, 'allergies' to using them, which meant that I never got to use the spares I have.

@Donald@HIDevolution (or whoever controls the HIDevolution website), may I ask when the back panel modification and the Prema Bios backlight fix will A) be listed and B) begin to ship?

As a follow-up, how long will it take to build, test and ship to the UK? Do you have a significant backlog? Are there any international shipping issues?

More generally, @Donald@HIDevolution , @woodzstack , which toolkit would you recommend for maintenance? I'm currently using some screwdrivers I got out of a christmas cracker (I think), which might be the reason for my problems! (sarcasm).

 

I can't speak for HID but as far as I know there is no ETA on the Prema bios I think Fox is still working with Prema to get it finished, that being said I know HID will flash the laptop for you after you purchase it if you are worried about missing out on that.

 

I have seen as high as 230W from this GPU in 3DMark 11, Sky Diver, Time Spy and Fire Strike with +235 core offset, which is, understandably, a challenge to cool using a heatsink designed to handle 150W.

Yes, it is still a work in progress. Almost ready, but there is still one thing that MSI gimped the ever-loving crap out of that needs to be fixed. Some demons resist exorcism, and this one isn't going down without a fight. It's the one doing the most damage to the performance capacity of the CPU, so killing it is crucial to freeing it from the malicious bondage MSI so meticulously crafted for it.