*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Does that mean he's working on the EC as well? Please say he is.

 

Are you guys using liquid metal under the heat shield and on top of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I've only attached my book to one external monitor and it worked flawlessly. I had to connect it to see the screen when the latest NVidia drivers borked the back light on my screen. I didn't really feel like holding a flashlight to the screen. When you buy the book (and you really should, hahaha) keep your NVidia display driver at 378.XX. Don't go above that and you should be fine. If you buy it from HID, I am confident that @Phoenix will help you tune your machine so you don't have to worry about unwanted firmware creeping up on you.

 

I use LM on the die and ICD on top of the IHS with good results. I would have used LM on top of the IHS if I didn't travel often with the computer for work.

 

The fact that you claim 7ghz, but the score itself reflects 4.3/4.4ghz is why we consider it a fluke. You can see that on the analysis page: http://hwbot.org/xtu/analyze/2447356

In fact, you can see Mr. Fox's score of 993 marks at 4.4ghz beating yours (951 marks), and a score of 950 marks from Royale011 at 4.3ghz right below yours. This is where the problem stems from, and why it's malicious (regardless of actual intent) to boast about a 7ghz overclock, when it was a sensor fluke. I can edit a DMI string and make it appear like I am running 7ghz. I can trick sensors to report any temperature or clock speed of my choosing, but at the end of the day, you cannot manipulate the performance.

While I agree it's uncalled for to blatantly insult people to try to prove a point, it's not my place to tell others what to do, or how to conduct themselves. I simply want to see as little misinformation as possible.

 

And here is my XTU score (971 marks) with same machine but with lower clocked 4.2GHz http://hwbot.org/submission/2736352_papusan_xtu_core_i7_4930mx_971_marks

 

Guys, I think he (hopefully) gets it. Even if he does wholeheartedly believes he hit 7Ghz, anyone that knows computing will see something isn't right. The continued public shaming doesn't do anything but fuel the flames. He learned not to diss Prema publicly without proof, as all that man does is help the laptop community.

Let's get back to discussing this beast of a machine, learning from one another.

 

Yes, I am. If your laptop has a rough and tumble lifestyle, using it under the IHS only is the safe approach.

 

Basically, if you use your laptop like an actual laptop (and not a DTR), liquid metal in between the IHS and heatsink is not advised due to the potential of leakage due to how laptops are handled in a mobile environment. For those that use their laptops for travel, Kryonaut, ICD and Gelid (if money is tight) are the ideal alternatives.

Even if you go the route of kapton tape, the potential risk still remains (albeit, less risky than just leaving it exposed). I've done LM a few times on some garbage soldered laptops, but I've used clearcoat nail polish to seal the heatsink. While this works, a lot of people get nervous when they have to bathe their board in acetone in order to remove their heatsink, lol.

From my personal experience, I have not seen LM be effective enough on top of the IHS to warrant the risk. 5C difference in some cases (which is pretty substantial) but only 1-2C in others (where fan/heatsink itself was the primary bottleneck).

If you are not focused entirely on benching, your best bet for thermals will be undervolting. Voltage scales quadratically, and will have one of the biggest impacts on thermals. Of course, this means compromising on performance, but in the grand scheme of things, modern IPC helps make up for deficiencies in clock speeds. I managed just fine with a 4.2ghz 6700k in an ITX case, so an undervolted 7700k at 4.5ghz would still be an improvement, lol.

 

Thansk for all the info in goal is to make the system as quiet as possible i do take it to works some times . Mostly I play I a. Laptop cooler in bed lol .. my plans was to run at 4.5 and under volt and run fans on silent mode which should still give me better performance then my Alienware 17r4 that's has a bad motherboard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I use a dual-monitor setup most of the time, and I frequently switch among several external monitors:

• A BenQ GW2265 at my work desk in my office
  
• A BenQ GW2265 on a rolling work table in my living room
• A GeChic USB-powered 1080p portable monitor that I carry in my backpack
• A Vivitek 1080p projector

The interface on each of these devices is HDMI. My laptop's main screen is the 4K UHD panel, and I have the EVOC 16L-G-1080.

Observed behaviors:

• All of the above devices work correctly with the onboard video from my EVOC.
• I did not have to manually install any drivers. The first time I connected each type of device, Windows 10 Pro auto-configured itself.
• Windows recognizes each device individually as it is connected and disconnected.
  
• I use monitor spanning, not mirroring. Windows defaulted to mirroring the display, so I did have to go into settings for each device and tell Windows what I wanted it to do. That setting, however, is persistent.
• Windows is fairly smart about remembering the position settings of each external device relative to the primary, so the cursor movement from screen to screen is visually intuitive. This matters a lot to me, because my second monitor in my office is above the laptop screen, while the others are (generally) to the right of the laptop at the same height.
• I have observed some scaling issues when moving windows between screens of different resolution. Most of these issues are actually temporary as you move the window, and they self-correct when you release the mouse button.
• My video editor of choice, Lightworks, works flawlessly and is 100% graceful about handling the different resolutions. I get a nice, standard 1080p preview full-screen on the secondary monitor, and the 4K primary screen lets me view 1080p edits in a portion of the user interface. It's a wonderful experience overall!
• I have not had any issues with hotplugging (or unplugging) monitors at the o.s. level. That being said, I have a couple of very old applications (one dating from 2006!) that store window positions in the Registry (stupid!) and therefore misbehave if you close the app from a secondary monitor then reopen it with no secondary screen connected. Not the laptop's fault, and not Windows' fault -- bad app design. Fortunately, most of my apps are smarter than this.

I have also briefly tested using the Thunderbolt 3 port on the EVOC with a T3 hub that provides USB 3.0, HDMI, and VGA ports externally. The USB 3.0 and HDMI ports work flawlessly; I haven't tested the VGA yet.

I hope this is helpful to you.

 

My EVOC is my daily driver for work. For normal office activities (document editing, email, browser-based applications, terminal sessions), the fans are almost silent for me, running in their default mode. This is with a 4.2 GHz base and 4.7 GHz turbo clock, and undervolted at 1.140V static. The fans ramp up when they need to but are quiet most of the time. Even ramped up, they aren't as loud as if you hit the "max fans" button on the keyboard.

For intensive work like 3D rendering, I do manually max the fans to keep the system cool. They're loud then, but not horrifically so IMO.

To be fair, most of the time I'm working in an office by myself during the day, but in the evening I'm in the living room near where my wife sits, and I also frequently work from a local coffee shop "because I can". So far, I've never had anyone complain about noise. This machine is far from silent when it's under load, but it's not a jet engine, either. My office laser printer is louder.

 

I can't answer that with specifics due to the @Prema NDA, so I will do the government-sanitized version and say " I can neither deny nor confirm."

But, maybe this picture will help. (Ignore the temps. Not using AC cooling or optimal voltage for this down-and-dirty throttling test.)

 

Yes, you can use multiple external monitors with the EVOC 16L-G-1080.

We expect the bottom service panels to arrive either this week or next. We don't mod them because different people will want to experiment with them differently. The actual mod will be up to your imagination, or you can follow the way @Mr. Fox did his. Once we receive them, we will post it here, and on our website.

There is no way to know when a work in progress will be complete. @Prema and @Mr. Fox are working hard on it and it will be complete once they are confident that it works they way @Prema wants it to.

We collect VAT of 20% of your purchase price plus shipping cost which covers all of your import duties and taxes. You can rest assured, when it is delivered, you will owe nothing more than what you have already paid HIDevolution.

Just configure the model you want and click Add to Cart. Then enter your Ship To address as you Checkout and it will show you the available shipping options and their cost before placing your order. You can then decide whether you want to place your order.

You will need a Philips Head size 0 for maintenance and upgrades...that's it.

Be sure to get the CMOS Battery upgrade if you plan on doing overclocking.

The rest of your answers are in my PM to you.

 

Where to buy it? Should I wait for the next product update? All legitimate questions, and the list is longer than that. The easy question to answer would be, "Is this the most powerful 15-inch notebook money can buy" and the answer is 100% absolutely. No need to look for the right 15-inch model... you found it. This destroys all of the competition in the 15-inch form factor. Now you just have to decide where to get it.

For those wrestling with what to do next, I hope this complicates the process for you. (I do not really "hope" that, but I know it will, so I am speaking prophetically.)

A 10% off special starts tomorrow with Eurocom.

 

thats huge improvement, my environments are much bigger most time bake can take 24-28 hours(using low quality preset for baking). so i run @ stock 4ghz. final gather takes the most time and since during final gather cpu is @100% usage its like stress testing cpu. let me know if u ever use final gather, want to see how it perform for you(final gather can increase bake time significantly tho)

 

OMFG! That's what I'm talking about!!! If only I could get my hands on something like that. You EVOC guys are freaking lucky man.

 

pretty sweet, if i was on the lookout for a new rig, this would be it

btw, any word on general availability of those DDR4-3200 sticks? so far ive only seen you and @Prema sporting them, looks to me like theyre still in beta testing or something like that.... @Mr. Fox

 

I think you should join the EVOC family, especially with @Prema and @Mr. Fox on the case. I am very excited to see what those two can do with the MSI 16L13.

 

I have never seen them for sale anywhere. And, the stock 3200 SPD is not optimal. The good news is, these sticks are virtually identical to the 3000 sticks. You don't need to buy 3200 sticks. I have two of the 3000 sticks in the Tornado F5 and 4 of the 3200 sticks in the EVOC P870DM3 (all 16GB modules) and they appear to be identical in every way except for the 3200 XMP profile. If you want I can send you the SPD to flash with the Pro version of Thaiphoon Burner. I've tweaked it a bit. If you have different size sticks (8GB for example) you would want to export/import only the XMP profiles.

 

Am I correct in assuming that the heatsink/s need to be removed and taken off to get access to the wireless card? I know I have seen it posted before and I'm 99% sure that's the case but I wanted to verify. Also you're a real pain in the ass @Mr. Fox .

 

We got pre-production samples in order to work on improved BIOS support. Right now G.SKILL can't get their hands on enough chips that pass the threshold to push them into mass-production.

 

Yes, it's under the CPU heat sink and the GPU heat sink has to be removed to get the CPU heat sink off.

 

These pre-production samples, do you happen to know which IC's are in them? I imagine they are Samsung, but it's not entirely out of the question for them to be SK Hynix. I wouldn't mind seeing G-Skill come up with a SO-DIMM variant of Samsung B-Die. If this is all under NDA, then I completely understand if you cannot comment on it. I take memory overclocking extremely seriously, and am looking for the best of the best kits to tweak.

 

They are identical to the ones they use in their 3000Mhz model, just cherry picked.

 

Holy crap, 24+ hours at low quality....ouch. I'd love to know what you're making! My current largest scene is a 1 km square terrain with a multi-floor office complex in the middle, and even that bakes at fairly high quality in under 3 hours. Have you looked at some of the factors that affect baking time? I can't recall where I saw it right now, but there is an article published by the Unity lighting specialists that shows how to reduce baking time with some tuning in other things beforehand. It really helped me. If I can find the link again, I'll PM it to you.

What's interesting for me right now is that this machine is fast enough that I don't even *need* lighting bakes until I'm almost done with a given project. For testing, I can go full realtime lighting, and it's all joy.

You might also want to experiment with the progressive lightmap baking in Unity 5.6.

 

be aware that im sporting the corsair sticks,not g.skill would an spd flash be necessary or could i also manually adjust the settings through the bios? thx to the latest prema mod im now able to adjust dimm voltage, that and the 7700k's stronger imc compared to SKL makes me be hopeful to finally get 3000 mhz stable. so any pointers as to stable timings, voltages and settings are very welcome

@Prema somehow it doesnt surprise me that G.Skill is having a very hard time to get enough chips together for mass production at those clocks...

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-AL10 using Tapatalk

 

afaik Corsair's been dropping the ball with DDR4. G.Skill is king for the time being. Corsair's got worse timings for the speed in general, is less stable, and more expensive from my constant checking of things. You may be able to get it working though. tRTW setting to 7 can help.

I think they're not that interested in laptop memory; not like anybody but Clevo can use them at above 2666MHz... I know for a fact MSI BGA doesn't do it. Alienware doesn't and can't even be unlocked with a mod even if they physically could. Lenovo, Razer, Acer, HP, Dell... none of them need even be considered. ASUS? lul

 

Out of curiosity, do the stock, or Svet bios' that these laptops come with, or even Premas mod, are they protected against the Intel ME exploit that was going around, or is there options in the bios to Disable AMT or whatever feature it is that needs to be disabled? I'm not overly concerned or worried about the exploit but I am curious to know if it's protected or if there's a way to disable it.

 

I haven't used a cooling pad before so these are pretty noob questions, but what components would I need to hook up an after market fan to the U3? I was thinking about either using the Vardar F4 or the Noctua NF-A14 3000 PWM. Does the U3 have fan speed controls built in? And could I plug the usb into a usb port of a power strip rather than the laptop?

 

corrected my post, haha! was supposed to say NOW instead of NOT

funny u should say that: i actually got the corsair sticks due to their slightly tighter advertized timings (16-16-16-39 vs. 16-18-18-43) and way lower prices, which have been like that ever since i started keeping an eye on ddr4 prices here in germany were talking like 120€+ difference for the 32gb kit at 3000 mhz...

so far ive gotten them up to 2800 mhz with tightened timings on my previous 6700k. curious to see what they can do on the 7700k...

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-AL10 using Tapatalk

 

I can't speak for others, but the version we are working on has the ME 'backdoor' patched.

 

It has less to do with Corsair dropping the ball, and more to do with G Skill's partnership with Samsung to get better-sourced IC's for their DIMMS. G Skill has majority access to Samsung-B die. G Skill has over 8 different B-Die kits in various capacities, while GeiL, Patriot and Corsair each have only one kit, in one capacity, none of which are available for SO-DIMMS.

Understand, they have to source their IC's for each kit, and if G-Skill gets priority access to the best IC's, Corsair is automatically going to suffer. It was the same when Hynix AFR/MFR ruled the roost, and other companies struggled to source the best of the best Hynix IC's for DDR3, just now it's Samsung for DDR4. None of this is helped by the current NAND shortage either.

@Prema can you or @Mr. Fox do me a favor when you get the time, and use Aida64 to see which IC's are on either the 3000 or 3200 kit? While it's unlikely the 3200 kit will report anything with it being pre-release, the 3000 kit should display which IC's it's using under the SPD information tab on Aida64.

 

Sorry, I don't own an AIDA64 license and my trial expired a long time back...Fox does!

 

Hold on... you're forgetting one.

Just a minute and I will look.

 

Thanks for the update. I'm not overly concerned about it myself but it's always good to know possible exploits are patched on a 2500$ computer I want to buy.

 

why, MSI LGA, of course

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-AL10 using Tapatalk

 

Oh right, MSI LGA can do it. Sorry, my poor brain.

 

Spoiler: 3200 G.SKILL in P870DM3

Spoiler: 3000 G.SKILL in Tornado F5/16L-G-1080

 

Brother @jaybee83 - just for you, man...

Spoiler: Manual 3000 and 3200 BIOS Settings (P870DM3 and 16L13)

3200

3000

3000

Hmm... I am gonna have to fix that for you. Everyone needs AIDA64.

 

yesssss, just what the doc ordered time for dreamland now though, tomorrow is ram tweaking day!

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-AL10 using Tapatalk

 

I can't say with absolute certainty (the part number isn't listed, just incomplete serial) but both of those look an awful lot like B or D die. The fact that it's dual rank makes me question a mobile E-die, especially at 16GB densities. I gotta hand it to G Skill, nobody does 16GB DIMM's like they do. I'd love to see what your kit looks like after a little love to tREFI and tRFC. I imagine you could get sub-40ns latency if we eventually get access to tertiary timings. Wouldn't mind a 2x8GB set of these kits (less density = easier to overclock, capacity vs speed tradeoff) just to see how far the traces on these boards can be pushed.

The fact that this even supports that memory speed tells me @Prema is doing a good job. Making a board tolerate memory training beyond what it's originally intended for, cannot be an easy task, lol.

 

Oh, I can tell you (as can the rest of his Project Phoenix team) that Brother @Prema has poured his heart and soul into what he does and works his guts out to get things right. I get to see it at a level that leaves me in a continuous state of amazement. He is a gift from God to us all.

From the time we started working together on the Eurocom Sky X9 until now, (less than 2 years time,) my "Prema" Outlook folder has a collection of 3,934 messages relating to the BIOS and vBIOS mods I have had the distinct pleasure of helping him with. I have 180 emails related to the 16L-G-1080 BIOS mod (most with a firmware revision of some sort for testing) since May 4. So... yeah... our friend @Prema is a firmware modding machine. This Tornado F5 has been bricked dozens of times already. Thank goodness for socket-mounted BIOS and TL866A programmer. But, we do it all out of love for our brothers, so they can be free of the firmware cancer that seeks to kill us all.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-overclockers-lounge.788975/page-959#post-10438971

 

Whether I intend to buy this specific machine or not, I appreciate the work both of you do. If we had others with that kind of conviction, maybe these manufacturers would start to notice that we require more control over our hardware. We don't pay our hard earned money to get only a fraction of what we pay for. Until then, we will simply have to hold out for the people with the time and know-how to get us through the trenches.

I must ask, is that socketed BIOS of yours normal? Or did you add it yourself? If so, I'd certainly love a guide (or at the very least, a subtle hint as to how you managed to make it happen) as it would certainly add another layer of redundancy to my quest of extreme longevity in a laptop.

 

No, it's not normal, but it is very easy to do if you are good with a soldering iron and basic tools. If you are careful removing the old chip (to not bend up the legs) you can remove it, solder the socket in place, then drop the chip right into it. I have multiple chips with different versions of BIOS (stock, two versions of Svet BIOS and now a couple of variants of the Prema BIOS). It makes life very easy. You need a nice pair of sharp electronics tweezers to grab it to get the chip in and out of the socket.

You can buy them here: SPI Flash Socket 8 Pin-1 SOK-SPI-8W-1
Here are the chips: Digi-Key Part Number W25Q64FVSSIG-ND
Programmer: https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Original-Universal-Programmer-Adapters/dp/B01J5EX300
Soldering Station: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007G36ME2
Tweezers: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DVIEJ14
Also get flux, solder, solder wick, etc.

Here is the technique I use for these chips...

Instead of soldering an end of the wire to a pad, I just find a screw to place it under to hold the end of the wire.

There are photos of it in my review thread. EUROCOM Tornado F5 Mini-MonsterBook Review Thread

01/27/2017:
Meanwhile, back at the laboratory... with the blessing of @Eurocom Support... a cure for the cancer is forthcoming.
**Click to Open Spoiler**

Spoiler: Photos of Surgical Procedure - Viewer Discretion Advised

Credit to @t456 and @Prema for encouraging me to use my gonads and learn how to do this. It's was pretty scary at first. But, the first brick of the Eurocom Sky X9 developer unit mobo made it a necessity (Nov 2015). Wish I had started learning this stuff many years ago. I'd probably be really good at it by now. I'm still a noob, but no failures to report so far. @Khenglish is the real maestro of this realm. If I someday get just halfway as good at it as he is that will be pretty special.

 

Count me in for one.

 

Heck yeah! If it works good, definitely count me it. It could be huge, too. Take up all the extra air space in the chassis. Would be sweet.

 

Finally ran my beast through Firestrike to get an idea of how it runs from the factory and with a small undervolt. I'm very happy with the results and my temperatures!
Factory.

Temps.

-90 mV undervolt.

Better temps.

Once I figure more of how everything works I'll see what this can really do.