*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Same one also for DM1&2?

 

I think it's pretty chill that you guys still reply to customers and have time for the lil' guys. It's pretty much a full time job itself, I should know. Cheers to that !

 

I cannot express how much this means to me and I apreciatte your customer service going above and beyond to do that. I try not to be a difficult customer and if there was a minor issue I could resolve I just wanted to do it myself instead of "complaining" or "bothering" you guys with an issue. The last thing I was expecting was a call from tech support out of no where about my post, that really is something you do not see.

 

Thanks! I downloaded and successfully installed. Alas, the driver appears to have a bug with that feature. If I turn on that checkbox, the driver immediately turns it back off again as soon as I click "apply" or "ok". FN+F3 is still working for me, though, so I guess I'll just keep doing that every time I un-suspend the machine.

Thanks for posting the driver. Even if I can't get that one feature to work, there were some settings I didn't have yet, so it was still a step forward.

 

Did you try uninstalling the old one first, and then installing the new one ?

 

Thank you for this, installed this over the one on Eurocoms website and I now have the option to disable the trackpad when a usb device is plugged in, and FN+F3 is working for me to manually disable it where it was not before. Appreciate the link.

 

Thank you so much, this driver worked for me, now a I can disable the pad!!!

 

No, it said it was uninstalling the old one automatically first (I was watching the progress logs). Do I need to do that manually instead?

 

Yeah i would suggest doing that with all Synaptics drivers. At least i have had to do that if i wanted to avoid any and all issues.

 

I had my laptop running for a couple hours at work today, idling not actively using it with hwinfo open and when I checked it again it seemed to be idling around 55C for the CPU and about 48C for the GPU. What do most people consider safe operating and idling temps for these machines and when should I start to worry? It is running @ 4.4ghz and was at the stock voltage. Last night while playing PUBG it got up to about 85C on the CPU and 85+ on the GPU when I had it maxed on ultra settings which is slightly hotter than I would like when gaming and doing stressful things. I will obviously look into repasting when my screen issue is resolved but I am just trying to get things set up as best as I can for now.

I do not have much experience with Throttlestop but am trying to use that and set it up. So far I have undervolted by -95mv and am running Prime95 and everything seems stable for now so I will try going lower later. Is there a good reference point on what I should be able to get down to with the voltage and still have it be stable and or rough idea of what my idling temps should typically be around? As far as TS goes, am I only undervolting the cpu cache and cpu core or should there be something else I should be doing?

Also for clarification, if I open TS does it automatically set those settings I had set in it, or do I need to "turn it on". I will look into having it start up automatically once I get settings situated correctly for it.

 

I think you have to "turn it on" in order for settings to take effect. Have you looked in the Throttlestop thread, he has instructions on how to use the program in the first few posts.

 

Yes I started reading it but most of what I saw was basic descriptions of what features did unless I didn't get far enough into it, but I did see a guide on how to set it up on windows 10 to auto start which I will be going back to. I think I had the hang of it and found where I needed to go to change the settings I needed for cpu voltage which is all I think I need to really do. So far I have gone down to -120mv on 4.4GHz and running Prime95 for the past half hour or so everything has been stable so far, so I guess from here I will probably just continue going in small increments.

 

You will probably get some comments about running Prime95 at all, much less for 30 minutes. @Mr. Fox @Prema @Phoenix @Papusan

 

I don't abuse my CPU personally like that and never run Prime95 or Furmark. The only thing I'd do after overclocking is run AIDA64 Stability test for 3-5 mins and if temps are good, I call it a day.

Those 2 programs don't represent a real workload of how a normal or even power user use their machine. They are simply torture tests destined to fry your laptop components.

 

Heh, I plan to do more testing when I get home and actually gaming on it with those settings, I just have limited time to really do or test stuff like this at work so I'm trying to do what I can to make improvements, not to mention it's my first time really doing any undervolting or anything. Gotta start somewhere /shrug

 

@Lunatics , Is it possible that the light that's bleeding through (and increasing in size) is some kind of heat related issue? I'm not a technical expert by any means, but the fact that it starts off small/non-existent, appears as your computer heats up, grows as your computer comes under more stress, and disappears if it's put into sleep mode (and is left to cool down) seems to me to have one obvious common element to it.

Anyway, I hope it's fixed soon, even if it turns out that I'm completely wrong .

As an aside, I'm reckoning that there are [at least] three 'projects' currently which have been suggested/ are being carried out , so to keep track of them, they're:

1) The modified back-plate [with properly spaced holes next to the fans] initially courtesy of Mr Fox, and currently being worked on by Eurocom (who'll sell the modified version) and HIDEvolution (who'll offer a back plate to modify yourself) AND a modified backplate. Neither of them are currently on offer.

2) The Prema Bios, being worked on by @Prema and @Mr. Fox , which is now on offer from HIDEvolution as an exclusive. Eurocom offer their own proprietary bios, and a 3rd party bios is offered by SVET of the MSI forums.

Here's an explanation (sort of) from Donald:

The EVOC 16L-G-1080 Prema BIOS is a fully EVOC branded stock firmware which uses the EVOC's logo, displays the proper '16L-G-1080' name directly in F2 BIOS as well as in software like CPU-Z, HWINFO64 or benchmarks and has no mention of any other companies model name or branding anywhere.

It can also be fully remotely updated with Premamod. None of the other BIOS versions out there will allow the Premamod update.

3) A vapour chamber cooling system mentioned by a member on here [My apologies I don't remember who raised the idea] which sparked significant interest. I don't know if that was a serious proposal, or if it was a pie-in-the-sky idea.

If there are any other ideas/proposals/suggestions I've missed, tell me please .

 

Next will be 24 hours with P95 and 5.0/5.2GHz And No one know that AIDA64 has baked in stability tests and should be more than enough for laptops. Even for desktops.

 

I don't use Prime95 or Furmark for anything. Neither one of them are good for your hardware and using them, at best proves nothing useful, and at worst will result in damage or failure. If you want to check for stability, use Cinebench for the CPU and a 3DMark or Unigine benchmark for the GPUs. Anything else is exceptionally and unnecessarily intense and far exceeds normal expected workloads.

 

I'm with you. After some playing around, I've concluded that the best way to test stability on my machine is to ask it to do my real-world workload and observe the results, in performance, stability, and temperature. My Unity lightmap bake jobs hit the CPU pretty hard, and my scene testing stresses the GPU realistically but not ridiculously.

I will admit that I occasionally run FireStrike, but mostly for fun to see how my latest tweaks compare numerically with what I had before.

 

I have a question for the OC and BIOS wizards. I have been notified by HID Evolution that I can get a Prema BIOS upgrade on my system, but that I have to send it back to them because they can't remotely flash the BIOS.

That's problematic for me, because this machine is my daily driver for work. With ground shipping from where I live to California and back, it would be gone for about a week even if HID Evolution turns my BIOS flash around the same day. I'm a computer engineer, and although I do have a spare laptop, my whole work environment is on this one. (One of the reasons I chose this machine is so I could self-repair if needed, to avoid that long round-trip shipping in case of hardware failure.)

So my question is this: I have heard awesome things about the work @Prema has done. From a practical standpoint, for a laptop being used for work (but in the 3D content creation realm), do I gain enough from Prema BIOS to justify the week of downtime? I do overclock, but no matter what BIOS I have installed I'm not going to be someone who pushes the machine to its bleeding edge limits. Since I have never used Prema BIOS, I am unclear on whether its benefit is that it would remove restrictions on how close I am allowed to get to the edge, or if it would allow me to get closer to the edge than I am now without sacrificing stability.

Again, to be clear, I have nothing but absolute respect for @Prema's work. I am just trying to consider the pros and cons for my own specific (and admittedly, atypical for this machine) workload.

 

1. Correct, as to the HIDevolution portion, except we are now considering offering the modded bottom service panel. We should have those panels in stock very soon.

2. Correct, as to the HIDevolution portion, except that the Prema BIOS offers a lot more than just a remedy to the MSI BIOS issues.

3. Great idea, but to get a manufacturer to move on a new idea...well, that is an unknown.

 

I'll definitely be buying one of those from you. My use of the machine for work has plenty of disadvantages (such as, I can't really afford to push the envelope with OC), but one advantage I do get is that my machine is always used in areas that are clean and dry. So I can ventilate more aggressively without worrying too much about dust and moisture. (And I'll open the machine now and then to clean it, of course.)

 

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

 

Good advice. I do wonder, though, if this might fix my occasional problems with "suspend" becoming "power off". That happened again last night, and this time I actually saw when it happened (I wasn't sure if it was failing to suspend, or failing to resume). The issue is that as I hit FN+F12, it did a power down instead of suspending. BIOS bug, or Windows bug? Not sure. It's a fairly rare event, and to be fair I've never seen any computer that didn't have some problems with suspend. That goes for Windows, Mac, and Linux operating systems. Nobody seems to have completely solved the suspend puzzle.

Being the data-paranoid engineer that I am, this simply makes me careful to always save my work before suspending, even for a few minutes to move to my other desk.

 

While neither are totally reliable, I never use Suspend in favor of using Hibernate. You are correct in the going into either without saving first is totally at your own risk. Issues with either are almost always Windows issues. @Prema can chime in if his BIOS can do anything to fix them.

 

1) Seconding Syscrusher, the modded panel, for the results it gives, looks like an essential part of the laptop.

2) If you want to, I'll substitute a *proper* explanation (To me, it'll be gibberish ). You might have to talk with @Prema, because, as far as I know, the precise details of what the bios does are still under wraps. (Known only to the lucky few .)

 

I definitely think it could be a potential heat issue, it's hard for me to say for sure though but it definitely gets worse the longer the laptop is on, I removed the bezel as they requested when I got home from work today and could not see anything that might be causing unnecessary pressure in the area and it did not help at all so I will be following back up with HID support and go from there. I already have an order placed for the spare back panel to mod, just a matter of waiting for them to come in (I was able to convince them to let me pay for everything at once while ordering the laptop and just wait for it to arrive and be shipped).

I'm sure the issue will be resolved without any problems, just sad that I'm probably going to have to send it back out already but it is what it is.

 

When you have the bezel off, and you are not running Prime95 or Furmark, is the light still there?

 

I set ThrottleStop to run automatically. I had issues before I set it up that way. I would strongly recommend taking the time to have it launch on boot up. Tell me what frequency you want to run at. For 4.7 I used a static voltage of 1.1104 which seems to be very stable. You may have to go up a little for stability. Cache voltage is the same. I get great temps, but I like to manually max my fans when running demanding applications. I don't like to go above 80 C.

 

Yes the light has been there from the start and happens when just idling on the desktop. I only ran prime95 twice today after turning on throttlestop it's not something I've been doing.

I'm just trying to run at 4.4 right now.

 

Very strange...well, just let Zoltan know and he will take care of you.

You did see all the comments about not using Prime95 and Furmark...correct?

 

The problem with Hibernate is that I have 32 GB of RAM. That's going to be a lot of disk activity.

 

Running 4.5, I have a static voltage set at 1.0498 and cache voltage set separately at 1.0400. I haven't tinkered with this frequency much, but it's been solid. I'm only using a static voltage without any offset.

 

Yup, will not be using it anymore.

 

whats the alternative ? Rent a laptop or borrow one for a week during the down time ?

 

They had told me there was a "pre" version of the prema bios they were going to try and put on my laptop before they shipped it to me that would allow them to remotely flash it when the full bios is released without me having to send it back again, hoping that this was able to be accomplished and I can just have it remotely upgraded. I definitely am interested in it to fix the brightness control issue, I am sure I can go to Svet for his unlocked one but I am afraid to replace anything on it if they did put a bios on that would allow them to remotely flash it for me.

 

I have my former machine, a Macbook Pro, as a spare. The issue is that all my data is on the EVOC, so I'd basically be running for a week with what amounts to an internet terminal.

 

That is correct. @syscrusher got the 1st EVOC 16L-G-1080 ever shipped, which was before the Prema pre-BIOS was available. Yours was the last one shipped before the Prema BIOS was released, and has the pre-BIOS already flashed, so you will not have to send it in, we can remote flash it for you. However since you may have to send it in for your screen issue, remote flashing may be moot.

 

That would be an unlocked one that has the protections removed I assume, and Eurocom should be able to remotely flash it for you, with the right bios. If they want to charge you it's because you didn't purchase it from them, and they do not support laptops bought by other vendors except mine (as I'm still under thier wing, and they 90% of the time will still redirect you to me).

Donald has a point too, Evoc could probably do the remote flash, but why add the extra risk when your sending it in for a screen repair anyways. Wouldn't you be more at ease knowing your 100% covered and in good hands - directly - physically doing the bios for you ?

 

The Prema BIOS is now available and will be flashed on all shipments of the EVOC 16L-G-1080 going forward.

We are notifying all EVOC 16L-G-1080 customers, other than @Lunatics, notifying them that the Prema BIOS is available for their EVOC 16L-G-1080. They will have to return their EVOC 16L-G-1080 for the flash because it has to be flashed with a Controller. We will pay for shipping both ways for customers in the lower 48 states in the USA. We will provide return shipping labels for all international customers, and those in Alaska and Hawaii, at our deeply discounted shipping cost, and will pay for shipping back to them.

If you haven't received your Return Merchandise Authorization with shipping instructions email yet, please be patient, we have a lot of them to get out, but expect to have them completed by end of day today.

 

The only "...right BIOS..." for an EVOC 16L-G-1080 is the Prema BIOS.

 

Yeah absolutely, I took the bezel off last night after work as per the request of Zoltan I believe, and it made no difference to alleviate the light through the screen. I also unscrewed the screen from the chasis and pulled it off so it was sort of just hanging there loosely, not screwed and secured into place and even with 0 pressure on the screen the light was still coming through so I will be calling them soon when they open to follow up and at this point it looks like I will be having to send it back anyway so yes, the remote flashing is moot at this point. I guess I was just curious in case I didn't have to send it back as I saw no obvious signs in the bios that it was a "prema pre bios" or anything so I just wasn't 100% sure. But yeah...remote flashing seems like it will be irrelevant at this point heh.

 

Is that matter of fact or just preference/opinion ? Like is there really only a single bios so far for this from you guys ? I'm just asking, because we theres like almost 30 different bioses at this point. more then half of them just for the transitioning from Skylake to Kabylake, but wasn't the 1080 in there, in the unlocked bios with the brightness control for the 120hz AUO panel from 2 months ago ?
I really can't read Sarcasm well, so forgive my question if your just joking.

@Lunatics whats the version of your bios reported in the bios screen and EC ?

Also, the light bleeding form the panel should be small enough to not bother anyone, but your saying theres some random light glowing thought the bezel itself ? Can I see ?

 

Normally a little light bleed would not bother me, but I feel like this is pretty significant and quite noticeable. It's not coming through the bezel, but users here and HID recomended trying to pull the bezel off as it could have been applying too much pressure to the screen making light come through the back of it but that does not seem to be the case, I feel like it is a screen issue or potentially something heat related with the screen?

It's not actually coming through the bezel. The bleed gets worse as I leave the laptop running and will widen and grow up the length of the screen over the course of 15 minutes or so of using the laptop or even just having it idle on the desktop. Occasionally I have used it and it's run for a bit without doing it but 99% of the time it does it. When I turn it on initially the screen looks fine (picture 5) but after 5-10 minutes it will look like pictures 1 and 2 and then after another few minutes it will look like picture 4 and sometimes extend even a little higher up the screen. http://imgur.com/a/Ona7t Here are the pictures I posted the other day in the thread.

http://imgur.com/a/Q8o95 is what it looked like this morning when I completely removed the bezel and unscrewed the screen from the chasis and let it sort of hang out with 0 pressure on it that could be pushing the light through so at this point I definitely feel like it is something with the screen. I wouldn't complain or make a big deal if it was a little bleed I know every laptop has it for the most part, and I did not even want to reach out to HID they reached out to me after Donald saw my post here. It gets very obnoxious when trying to game, I was playing a couple games of PUBG on the laptop and that whole right side of the screen where it is white was extremely discolored when playing games and things with other colored backgrounds than just black.

As far as the bios goes, I currently have "Version 2.18.1263" "E16L1IE9.30C" and EC was "16L1ED61.111" I believe. I think one date on the bios said March and the EC said 12/14/16 which was why I just wasn't sure but it's kind of moot anyway since I believe I will have to be shipping it back. I don't think Donald is lying to me, I just wasn't sure if it would say "version prema xxx.xx.xx" etc or anything, ultimately not a huge deal was just curious.

@Donald@HIDevolution The only reason I had tried a test of P95 yesterday was the Throttlestop thread people referenced with information and guides on it, recommends running it after you are done making changes to test the stability and I had not read things in here about how bad it can be for your machine, someone should tell them over there if it's that bad so people stop recommending it to each other .

 

Thats not the bezel, thats the panel itself, seen it before. Usually find those in testing and send them back or replace them. Thats why I carry spare parts. Never seen a panel "develope" that though if it was already good, so I have no idea what your panels story might be, except its possible it was never noticed or overlooked, or maybe they didn't look at the screen when testing the laptop - I don't know what sort of services you took, if there was any reason to maybe have noticed. Some Chinese companies for instance never really test anything and just ship it after assembly, if it mechanically works, then some times these get to a customer without being scrutinized or maybe develop in transportation (but never seen a panel start doing this from any amount of transport, this is like manufacturing defect or the metal frame around the panel I assume - could be completely wrong).

If those are Prema's bios then IDK what to say, I think I have a copy of those ones already, but maybe he just kept the stock naming then, or maybe Eurocom uses the same names for thier bioses, could be coincidence. You said something about a "Pre-Prema" bios. maybe that is just a moniker thrown around but not any official naming, like maybe its something they use before they would use the Prema bios, but itself is nothing special. Who knows. Not saying Donald is selling you snake oil or lying to you either, he has always seemed pretty legit to me.

 

was thinking for a second, temperatures could also do this to the TN panels. Like if you leave the panel closed and the laptop is on, or there is differences in ambience and such. Is that possible or is everything stable

 

It's a "Pre prema" bios from before they had it done, but is supposed to have the feature in it that would allow them to flash it remotely like they can after Prema is on peoples machines. Point is kind of moot now I was just kind of curious about the version numbers I definitely don't think they are trying to lie or anything like that lol. Everything is stable, I am using it in air conditioned rooms maybe 70 degrees F and the machine is running fine with CPU and GPU idling around 45C or so on auto fans, nothing is overheating in the machine or feel heat coming out off it, but it seems like it could be something heat related from the way it grows and expands after the laptop is on. When I'm talking about leaving it on too, I mean I turn it on and it looks normal and after 10 minutes of idling the screen looks messed up, not running any applications or doing anything causing the machine to heat up it just progressively does that, and if I close the lid and put it to sleep and wake it back up it looks fine and normal again for a few minutes until it starts again. I definitely don't use the laptop with the lid closed while running and gaming, I'm really using it as an actual laptop and just using the built in screen for now.

 

Well your in good hands anyways, sorry I can not help, thanks for answering my questions and curiosity and sharing.

 

To clarify the BIOS issue somewhat...

The EVOC 16L-G-1080 base BIOS (also prepared for us by Prema) is a fully EVOC branded stock firmware which uses the EVOC's logo, displays the proper '16L-G-1080' name directly in the BIOS as well as in software like CPU-Z, HWINFO64 or benchmarks and has no mention of any other company's model name or branding anywhere.

It can also be entirely remotely updated. None of the other BIOS versions out there will allow the Prema BIOS update.

Once you have the Prema BIOS on your EVOC 16L-G-1080, we strongly recommend using no other BIOS.

 

Ah, that's a dreadfully rotten luck, @Lunatics, I hope you're reunited with your monster-baby soon .

@Donald@HIDevolution, that's supremely generous of you, well done. Now all I have to wait for is the modified panels, and I'm down to buy it.

(As an aside, how many of these have you got on hand to sell? I really wouldn't want to wait for so long, then get even more delays due to a stock shortage. )