*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

sometimes the heatsinks do not make full contact.

 

Hello everyone,
I would be grateful if anyone could give me some advice for my thermals in my laptop.
Yesterday, I performed every mod mentioned in the thread, except the CMOS battery extension.
1) I opened two holes in the bottom cover, in the right position and 64mm, just enough to cover the fans, and with dust filters (1mm diameter) placed directly in front of them.
2) I delided (successfully my CPU- 6700k)
3) I lapped the IHS gradually with sandpaper ranging from 240 to 2000 grits. I think I did not a very good job since the letters in the IHS are still visible and only the corners of the IHS have the copper color
4) I covered nearly everything with Scotch Super 33+ electrical tape, the whole CPU except the die and some motherboard pins around the cpu
5) I applied some conductonaut in the die (not a pond but some spots had just a brush of LM) and very little in the back side of the IHS
6) I applied conductonaut in the upper side of the IHS (again a small square equal to the size of the die) and some to the heatsink around equal size.
7) I cutted some very thin foam and stuck it around the cpu and the latch of the LGA 1151 socket
8) I tried to screw the heatsink back with enough force

Also, I have to mention I did NOT reapply TIM to the GPU heatsink. I though I would be ok since my laptop is 8 months old and as far as I know this stuff is ok for 2 years+ (however, I noticed the TIM was dry)
However, my temps have not improved not even to the slightest, I still get 97 C on one core in Prime95 and the core temps fluctuates very bad. I have 5-10 C difference between the coldest and the hottest cores and sometimes the Core #1 changes temp abruptly (in 1s), let's say from 50C to 80C and the back to 50C. Also, the GPU (gtx 1070) goes 90C just after 1 minute in Overwatch, something that did not happen before the operation.
So, do you have any suggestion what I did wrong? I fear that I have reduced the IHS thickness critically with lapping and it does not make enough contact with the heatsink but I do not know. I might have simply applied too little LM. I would be glad if you could tell me even your craziest though so I fix every possible cause and ensure the best temps.

Thanks in advance,

 

Removing & reattaching the GPU heatsink without repasting the GPU was a mistake I think - hence your now high GPU temps; every time you remove the heatsink you have to clean & reapply the thermal paste. It sounds like your lapping didn't do anything - as you say on the corners of the IHS were lapped down, leaving the centre untouched. To get such high temperatures it also sounds like your CPU heatsink isn't making good contact with the IHS of your CPU. These would be my guesses, and you could check those elements if you like.

 

I had a feeling what I did with the GPU was indeed wrong XD. Indeed this is probably the cause for the GPU temps. So, I sound screw the heatsink harder to remedy the contact problem?

 

When you talk about screwing in the heatsink harder - I think you're talking about the CPU, but you don't want to screw in the CPU heatsink harder, you should only tighten the screws 'lightly' using the correct set of well fitting screw drivers. If you want to check how well your CPU heatsink is making contact with your CPU then you can repaste your CPU with cheap thermal paste, screw it all back down, (perhaps use the PC for a short time to heat it up & allow the paste to settle), then unscrew it & take it apart to look to see how good the spread of thermal paste is and to guage how good the contact was between CPU & heatsink. If it turns out you have a poorly fitting CPU heatsink then you might need somehow make some modifications or talk to the seller about getting a replacement. Other users on here that own your model of laptop are better placed to recommend heatsink modifications to allow for a better fit.

To solve the GPU temperature problem, you'll need to repaste that.

 

Well I guess this time it isn't the CPU alone, I noticed that even with normal use the PCH gets to 82c, I guess the second SSD M.2 drive which has a thick thermal pad underneath it is causing the rise in temps, I will removed it or apply a thinner pad and tape it from the sides of the stick. And also on 1120Mv and 4.5Ghz just was using chrome after noticing the PCH temps, the machine crashed.....got pissed off and it was late at night, I hit the hay and now giving it a rest, I will wait for some materials to come in until then, desktop time.

 

First follow @Robbo99999's advice regarding tighten the screws and and what he said about use of same old thermal paste. Always new thermal paste if you open up the heatsink (You can re-use new fresh Liquid metal - but not a regular paste). Buy a quality thermal paste for you Gpu.

3) I lapped the IHS gradually with sandpaper ranging from 240 to 2000 grits. I think I did not a very good job since the letters in the IHS are still visible and only the corners of the IHS have the copper color
Be careful with lapping the orginal 6700K lid if thats what you have. It's in fact quite ok. See my lapping and pressure testing of Bitspower IHS But remember the Bitspower IHS is higher than the orginal for 6700K. Do not shave of to much metal. You will lose some of the pressure if you shave of too much, which is undesirable.

4) I covered nearly everything with Scotch Super 33+ electrical tape, the whole CPU except the die and some motherboard pins around the cpu.
I hope you didn't used electrical tape where the lid meets the cpu pcb. As you said you used electrical tape on the whole cpu except the die.

5) I applied some conductonaut in the die (not a pond but some spots had just a brush of LM) and very little in the back side of the IHS
See how much Liquid metal you need on die and underside of IHS


6) I applied conductonaut in the upper side of the IHS (again a small square equal to the size of the die) and some to the heatsink around equal size
Paint Liquid metal on almost the whole upper side of IHS but not all the way to the edge. Painted Liquid metal on the heatsink have to match same size as what you put on the IHS. Painting Liquid metal only as the square equal to the size of the die on the upper side of the IHS and heatsink is too little.

 

First of all thank you all for your valuable advice and elaborate posts.
Now I want to admit that I am a noob (at least relative to most of you) and therefore sorry if some of my questions/thoughts seem dumb but I want to be 100% for everything.

@Robbo99999 I tried to tighten the screws and I think this indeed helped with more even core temps.

Also @Papusan :
3) Thanks god I do not think I lapped it to a point it will cause problems, since the letters are still visible, but it is just my guess.
4) I used electrical tape in the whole PCB except the die and of course not the perimeter with the indication marks (the triangle and the big circle I mean). Should I remove it or use less? I though only the die emited heat, or at least a considerable amount, but know it seems a little silly thought. There is a chance it blocks heat?
5+6) Thanks for the tips, I read a lot of forum discussion and watched some youtube videos and decided to go with a little more that you did. I have custom cutted foam + electrical tape around the cpu in the motherboard like @Mr. Fox did, so I feel safe. Just out of curiosity there is no problem with using more paste as far as heat conduction is concerned isn't it?

Also, I want to give some feedback from an amateurs point of view (that's me) regarding the moding of the laptop. I am 19 years old and studying electrical engineering with a deep interest in electronics and programming but I have certainly a lot to learn and I do not have a lot of experience with hardware mods. To me the procedure I mentioned some posts ago was difficult. In fact I found it nerve wracking- especially the deliding. I might have did something wrong, but I did not saw huge improvement in temps. I ran on a 6700k (stock settings) and gtx1070 (again stock settings). I got 10-15C improvement in realbench in CPU and 2-3C improvement in Prime95. I would NOT recommend this process to anyone who have little experience with computers (eg have not build one), have not read a lot about the mods and how the work and is not comfortable with using tools.

As for the GPU, I followed your advice and applied conductonaut on it. Now everything is fine and I got 3-5C drops everywhere.

Do anyone has an idea why prime 95 basically destroys my CPU?(95+ C while Realbench and Overwatch are OK?)
Also, what do you consider a safe temp in games to keep this laptop going for 5-7 years?

Again thanks everyone for your time and your valuable piece of advice ! I want to let you know that you all help me a lot in my journey to becoming a good professional electrical engineer.

 

Hey, we are all born noobs and learn as we go. The difference between a noob and an expert is the latter has had time to make more mistakes. The important thing is to dive in and try things and learn from the mistakes that you and others make. Reading what others do (both good and bad) helps avoid some along the way. The only people that never makes mistakes are legends in their own minds. The only person that never made any was crucified for being perfect.

This electrical tape over the entire PCB is most likely the problem. The electrical tape is most likely lifting the IHS off of the die and preventing contact. Please remove the electrical tape. The only contact points under the IHS that could be affected by liquid metal are the tiny dots near the die. If you wish, cut a tiny square piece of Scotch tape only slightly larger than those little dots and put that over them.

 

First, don't use P95 as it's the most stress full software out there. No need for running it. Remember you have a laptop with a lot worse cooling than a desktop biuild with much better cooling. Rather use AIDA64 Extreme if needed and the normal benchmark software.

Not too much and not too little Liquid metal.

Edit. From my previous post... This is 1.5 Years old Liquid Metal before I removed it and put in my New 7700K. As yoo can see in the pict... This amount of LM was quite appropriate. No leakage outside of IHS as yoo can see. And I had very good cpu temp as well. Use exactly same amount LM on the Heatsink also.


This is the second LM application before I redone it and make the final LM application.


A few temp results from new LM and lapping the IHS. Here and Here

 

Just to clarify one thing, I have no electrical tape on the CPU PCB or the CPU socket. I have Kapton tape bridging the space between the IHS and the silver CPU retention bracket.

 

You had told me you worked remotely; I forgot. Mea culpa! I'll ask Zoltan to order me a set. Again, it's no hurry, though.

 

+1. What you say is all correct, and my machine seems to have re-stabilized now. In fairness, though, recall that for me 1.140 was not "bleeding edge" undervolt. It was stable for several months with zero crashes for me. Something else changed somewhere to make that unstable now, and I'm not sure what. I actually suspect my problems were due to a combination of faulty Nvidia driver plus that one borked "max power" setting I found in the OC configs, which I still have *no idea* how it got there. Best I can think is maybe I accidentally hit that UI element with a click some time and didn't notice it, 'cause it was all f***ed up for sure. Now it's back to a sane value.

But yeah, what you have said here is clearly good advice. I noticed zero temp difference going from 1.140 to 1.150.

 

I think you have nothing to worry about and the change is irrelevantly related to completely different BIOS, perhaps with a smaller variance in voltage fluctuation. A possible explanation for the change in setting is that with the @Prema BIOS your settings are more accurate than they were before. If you were setting 1.140V with the previous BIOS that does not mean it was accurately obeying your order to use that amount and was undoubtedly using more. We already know that Haswell (to a lesser degree), Skylake and Kabylake processors arbitrarily use more voltage than the amount set by the user, whether it be static or adaptive voltage, so maybe the amount of extra voltage applied without your permission is less now than it was before. The important thing is to find the right value and use it, then I think you will be golden (if you're not already there now).

 

Exactly. New drivers and new OS build can make a difference. Not fun if you risk freezing or similar when you work on your computer. You can get light OS corruption as well(you don't see it before it's too late). Backup is a must always, but not all running backup every minute. +rep
Edit. If people think I mean they shouldn't undevolt... This is wrong. I mean you shouldn't put the voltage on the edge. Aka so low that you may risk stability issues.

 

The neoprene suggestion is a good one -- thanks @ThatOldGuy! But as it happens, I don't have that on hand. But.... PCB blank. Now that I do have. I used to design circuit boards, and I've got some samples of a high-temp-rated industrial spec (not quite MIL-SPEC but the next step short of that) PCB blank. I'll have to do some digging to find them, but that'll work perfectly.

Thanks to both of you for the replies.

 

I am stunned almost every day by the amount of stuff I learn on this forum. What you say makes perfect sense, but I never would have suspected that to be what was happening. Wow.

 

Funny you should mention that. As I've said on this thread, I'm a Linux sysadmin professionally and fairly novice by comparison in Windows. I was just wondering a few days ago, "Is there a way to scan my Windows installation for corruption without actually reinstalling from scratch?" Thanks for the hint about "sfc". I Googled to learn about that and have it running in background now.

I'm also using CCleaner to help keep my registry tidy.

 

ROFL! @Mr. Fox, you remind me very much of a close friend of mine. He's from Maine, of French Canadian descent, the son of a longshoreman, and has traveled overseas extensively. He can swear creatively in not just one, but multiple, languages, often intermingled with one another.

You have successfully translated that talent into technical jargon. I just wish you weren't so shy about letting your real feelings show.

 

A few years ago, I had a paid consulting gig to deeply evaluate the thermal engineering of several competing brands of enterprise-grade server hardware. Even in that space, where the systems were in the US$10K to $75K range, it was clear that some companies really "got it" better than others did. I went into the analysis expecting to find roughly equal quality, but was surprised at how some systems really stood out in thermal design while others absolutely plopped.

 

I run a company's IT department as my day job. I totally agree about backups. Mine consist of a backup to an external encrypted USB drive for routine backups in my everyday work and while traveling. For longer-term DR backups, my laptop backs itself up to my home file server (again, encrypted media). The fileserver backs up itself, my wife's laptop, plus my two private cloud virtual servers, all onto external paired USB encrypted drives. Those drives rotate one offsite, one offsite, and the offsite one lives in a safe deposit box at a bank. I've recently started backing up my most critical data to an additional destination, an encrypted Amazon S3 datastore. Okay, so maybe I'm a teensy bit paranoid about my data.

 

Heard Eurocom is working on MXM 3.0b 1060, 1070, and 1080 cards that are to be compatible with all laptops that have eDP and use the standard MXM 3.0 layout. This could be interesting upgrade for those that purchased the 1060/1070 version of the F5 as it uses a relatively standard MXM 3.0 card and should be fully compatible with the 1080 upgrade if we eventually need a bit more power. They are supposed to be out around November and I am thinking about grabbing the 1080 for my F5.

 

Are those R15 devices near the lower left corner actually *resistors*? If they are, and they need to be that large, then something in the motherboard design is sending a lot of energy out through them as heat. I'm hoping they're something other than resistors, but I only see two soldered leads on each one, unless there are more pins on the bottom or the side facing away from the camera.

 

Ha, if my data was THAT important I'd be worrying about the safety of my life instead!

 

A lot of my data is digital photo albums, as I'm an amateur photographer. Also, my Unity gamedev projects represent hundreds of hours of work each. And do on. This laptop is the tool by which I earn my living, and I treat it and the data it contains accordingly.

How many people do you know who've lost all their photos of their children because they didn't have backups and their hard disk died, or they got a virus? (How about the ones who *move* the data to a USB drive instead of *copying* it, and think they just "made a backup"?)

If your backups are in the same location as your originals, then you're protected against hardware failure but not against fire, flood, theft, etc.

 

After some reflection, it occurs to me that I also owe @Mr. Fox a serious compliment here, not just a humorous one. For all the colorfully insulting descriptions of turdbooks, BGA processors, and poor thermal design, ever since I've been on this forum those criticisms have been leveled at companies and products, or at bad ideas, and never at individuals. That says a lot about your character as a human being. In these days of Internet trolls who will say almost anything awful to anyone with whom they disagree, hiding behind the cover of a screen name alias, it is refreshing to encounter someone who is professional enough to focus on ideas, concepts, and data, and who has the extensive technical prowess to back up opinions with theoretical understanding and empirical test evidence. All kidding aside, my hat is off to you, Sir.

 

Hello Everyone.
Im considering to buy Eurocom Tornado F5 with configuration below.I will buy with Delidded CPU and Unlocked BIOS with promotion.
(have Samsung 960 EVO 500GB SSD)
https://i.hizliresim.com/gWdQQ3.jpg
https://i.hizliresim.com/OLYjPD.jpg

I couldnt read all the pages but looked like 150.
I wanted know your recommendations for all the stuff and ask some questions to you.

1) I'm going to use this laptop with BenQ XL2430T Monitor. Is there anyone had any problem with external monitor ?
2) Can Eurocom provide bottom case with extra fan vents such as HIDEvolution offers?
3) When I wanted to repaste CPU and GPU, is there any risk about doing it with Liquid metal ?
4) Is 230W brick is enough with gaming ? (Im not a hard overclocker. maybe using with 4.6ghz)

 

Pinging @Mr. Fox

 

I use my EVOC 16L-G-1080 (essentially the same machine) with a BenQ 2265 monitor almost every day. In fact, I have two of the same monitor, one in my office and another on a rolling cart. The external monitors work correctly in either "extend display" or "mirror display" mode. I have tested with the built-in HDMI connector on the laptop, and also with an external Thunderbolt 3 to HDMI adapter.

I defer to others on these two questions.

It depends on what kind of game you are playing, and what settings you use. Several months ago, I did some testing on my unit:

• First round of tests: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...6-owners-lounge.797128/page-507#post-10504346
  
• Followup testing: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...6-owners-lounge.797128/page-508#post-10504390

I hope that info is helpful to you, but remember that every individual system is a little different due to production variation, and your own settings and applications will heavily influence your results.

EDIT: Please note that my tests are for using a 230W power supply as a secondary unit when traveling. You will definitely want to have a 330W power supply as your main unit, as @Papusan points out below. I apologize that I did not make this clear in the first version of this reply.

 

I can't see your pict. But if you go for 1080 you will need 330w psu. LM is 100% metal as you know and electrical conductive. Always a risk, but this can be significantly reduced if you take the time to read up posts/threads on how this should be applied and initiating preventive measures against possible leaks. Hit up @Mr. Fox's informative posts on the forum + YouTube videos.

 

Is it normal for this to freeze when the power is disrupted under load?

Even if I reposition my laptop slightly on my desk, it will often freeze if I'm not extremely careful. I'm guessing that the power cable is being nudged a fraction of a millimetre or something similar (even though to the naked eye it still looks to be unmoved, and still feels completely pushed into the socket).

This only happens with a game running. Doing it now, with just this browser window open, it switches to battery power just fine whenever I pull it out. I'm well aware that it can't run games at full throttle without the adapter in but it really should be properly switching to battery and dropping to unplayably low FPS or something, not freezing the whole system.

 

In preparation for my new machine I was poking around for laptop cooler suggestions:

Is this post from @Mr. Fox the best go-to resource?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...6-owners-lounge.797128/page-611#post-10530186

Perhaps time to check out the local computer center for the discontinued U3.

 

@syscrusher @Papusan Thank you for answers.
Im going to have 7700K and GTX1070 btw.
I watched all @Mr. Fox 's videos and lots of delidding and applying LM. Im not sure about how long LM performs at top and when it needs to be repasted. I saw some videos that LM become solid after 3 months.
Also I wanted to know that which power mode you are using on Windows ? High performance or optimal ? Is that really effect power consumption ?

 

The battery cannot drive the full strength of the gpu. The gpu will throttle hard.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

If heatsink have good fit on IHS, expect minimum 2 years. I have still same old Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra from early 2014 in my (Alienware 17 - 4930Mx). Liquid metal on die, under the IHS lid should stay on as long you have your cpu.
I always use high performance. And not crippled power saving in any form or shape.

 

That's good to know it will last at least 2 years with a good fitment - I put some on my desktop GPU and I'd hate to go through the rigmarole of trying to remove the liquid metal & repasting it! Sounds like the paste could last as long as I plan to keep the card, I've done backplate mods to it already, so have zero reason to take apart the card in future, hopefully will be able to clean out the dust just using can of compressed air without taking apart.

 

See also the statement I got from Silicon Lottery. As you may know, they have switched from Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra over to Grizzly Conductonaut. However, Liquid metal from Phobya, Coolaboratory or Grizzly is equal good and with no major big differences between them.

 

Yeah, so they've switched to Conductonaut, and they say it didn't degrade over a year of testing. I'm using Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra, which is same as your Alienware that you've had liquid metal on for 3 years, so should also not degrade for a long time.

 

As I have stated in previous post, heatsink with good fit on die/IHS is important. And Alienware has been known for quality heatsink. This was the normal before Dell switched agenda and created their new Aw JokeBook line with the well known TRIPOD MESS. Wonder how many who will have to change LM long time before they need due the heatsink fit is like trash!!

 

I will defer to @Mr. Fox for the LM question, since you are citing his videos.

The power mode question, I assume is directed at me, so I will answer that. I generally am using "high performance" mode because I rarely run from battery, and because I have overridden so many of the Microsoft settings that their predefined "modes" are essentially meaningless on my machine. I know that's not much help, sorry. What I'm trying to say is that I started with 'high performance mode" but then customized to make my own variant based on my needs.

I have found that even in high performance mode, this system's power consumption is reasonable when the CPU is in non-turbo mode (which is most of the time) and the GPU is lightly loaded (again, most of the time). For my specific workload, I tend to have long periods where I am using command shells (bash and SSH) and web browser, or editing source code, followed by periods where I load the machine to maximum for 3D lightmap baking or renders. Those run for a few minutes or for a couple of hours, depending on what I'm working on that week.

All that being the case, the only time I have used one of the low-power modes is on one or two occasions when I've been forced to use the battery and was only checking email or using the web.

 

If you are willing to purchase a Kill-A-Watt power meter, or something similar, it would be very interesting if you examine my test results, then repeat the tests as closely as you can with the 1070 instead of my 1080. The two sets of tests would provide a very nice resource for people considering which GPU to order.

 

the bottom panel vent mod is from HID, there is always risk when repasting with LM, the 230W is sufficient.

 

Thank you! HIDevolution.com that is

 

My apologies. https://www.HIDevolution.com

 

Don't worry, these are inductors. It does create a bit of resistance, but their purpose here is to smoothen the DC current and limit voltage spikes due to switching. They're large merely due to being, basically, a rather crude technology.

The 'R' on the component itself is merely a coincidence, designating the manufacturer's part number. If you want to know the purpose of a component then simply check the label on the pcb. An inductor will have something like ' P*' (for power), ' R' = Resistor, ' C' = Capacitor and so on. Not all modern systems will be labeled, unfortunately; cheaper/disposable motherboards can be unmarked. Add in non-available schematics and repairing such systems if next-to-impossible .

If you want more options to tweak then open regedit and navigate to ' HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\'. Now search for ' Attributes' and change all values to '0' where it reads '1' currently. This is the 'hidden y/n' attribute and prevents you from viewing (and changing) these items via the normal Power Options interface. The change is effective immediately, so no need to restart. CPU especially is crazy; you go from ~5 to ~35 possible customisable settings.

 

@syscrusher I will make all power consumption tests when I got the beast I think not using laptop's screen might decrease power consumption little bit. I hope that I will order tomorrow and get NB next week.
I asked Garry on Eurocom and Im told that Modded bottom case costs extra $50 US.
@Donald@HIDevolution I also wanna know that do you sell that custom bottom plate ? If so whats the price ?

 

The Bottom Service Panel Ventilation Mod is standard on all of our EVOC 16L-G-1080 laptops, we don't sell it as an extra. You will see it on our Configurator.

You will also see the CMOS Battery Extension Modification, so you don't have to remove the motherboard to clear NVRAM, as an upgrade option for $29.

 

Actually, the traditional symbol for an inductor was "L" (presumably because "C" which could have stood for "choke" or "coil" was already taken for "capacitor", and "I" which could have stood for "inductor" is used for current). "T" is used for transformers.

It wasn't so much the "R" that threw me, but rather the fact that their surface looked like ceramic, which is often used on high-power resistors.

Thanks!

 

Yes, L
No, nothing due to already used letters
It is because in physics equations inductance = L, honorarily named after physicist Heinrich Lenz

Incidentally, I = Current due to the French phrase intensité de courant (current intensity), which the numerical value of I is a measure of

 

Great info! I didn't know that L was named after Lenz. I always wondered why not H because the unit of inductance is the Henry. I also didn't know the origin of "I" for current. "E" for voltage abbreviates "electromotive [force]", I believe.