*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Where are all the benchmarks from users of Prema BIOS? I go away for a couple of weeks to work on my TR build in another thread and I come back to a debate about tuning terminology. Joking aside, I'll wake this thread up with powah very soon!

As a side note, my OC adventures with TR has made me realize how powerful a PremaMOD powered MSI 16L13 really is.

 

I've gotten into the 19000s in firestrike, but I need to get my gpu thermals down, @Rage Set.

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I've posted mine pages back when I first got the machine back, been getting around 18k give or take a little in fire strike. I am happy with the score and performance and just would like to get GPU temps down a little. If I can keep a score of 18k and get temps down I would be happy.

 

I'm running in the mid-17K range with FireStrike, but with temperatures that I find acceptable (mid 80s for GPU, mid 70s for CPU). I have on a couple of occasions pushed into the 18K range with FS, but I dialed back to improve stability.

To put things in perspective, when I (temporarily) had the 2016 Razer Blade Pro, which also has a 1080 GPU but is a BGA processor in a slim form factor, the best I ever saw in Fire Strike was in the 14K range. And my previous laptop was a Macbook Pro with a 650M GPU, much *much* slower. So even my modest 17K is looking pretty good to me.

 

Here here!
But still learning from yours an others best users here on forum!

I Take last month this new beastly laptop from Woodzstack, still learning how to manage its power/temps,

Just a 3dMark's today run at 25° ambient temp,
6700k@4,8Ghz (vcore override 1230 on bios result in 1,40v on load )
Win7x64pro, 382.53 whql driver on 1080Gtx Prema Bios + 140core + 240mem


https://www.3dmark.com/fs/13554965

GS: 23073
PS: 15489
CS: 9355

"Winter is coming.."

 

My CPU temps have been okay and have not bothered me since getting the bottom panel mod and using maxed fans, even doing something quick like Firestrike does not get my temps on my CPU very high on default fans, it's really just the GPU I have an issue with as some others do, it makes me quite uncomfortable to have it running at 90 degrees anytime I am gaming on it and reaching those temps even during a quick FS test.

Trust me, this is an extremely powerful machine I am not complaining about scores or anything by any means haha, I am very happy with the 17-18k range I have been getting on it. I would just like to keep that 18k score to say I have it while having good temps but I obviously don't need it. Having lower more stable temperatures is far more important to me than a couple hundred or thousand points in a benchmark, in terms of in game performance or normal day to day stuff I would never notice any real difference but lowering temps really gives me piece of mind that this purchase will last me for the years I would want it to. I mean my desktop which always had more than enough power for me scores about 11-12k in FS and this is getting significantly higher than that, and my Razer Blade that I originally paid what....300? 400 dollars less for than this machine? That was only giving me scores of like ~9k and this is essentially getting double that score for a couple hundred dollars more. Just makes me hate myself even more for wasting all the money I did initially on that piece of garbage and lost to sell it and my old AW to afford this machine, wish I just did more research and thought about my decision a little bit more before I rushed into it....oh well.

The temps just seem so weird and sporadic with this machine. I had it on today idling during work downloading some games and updates from Steam/Bnet and maybe that does take up some sort of cpu power and effort to do, but it was getting up to the 55s-60s "idling" like this not really actively using the machine or doing anything except allowing it to download games. When I look at it now even with max fans it is still reporting that it is running around 50-55 degrees however sometimes I will look over and it will report high 30s on the CPU cores, then jump up to that 50 range again, then spike up and report high 60s or 70s for a second or 2, then drop back down. It just seems like it is all over the place and I am not sure if it is incorrect reporting or if the temperature is really that sporadic and across the board. The bottom right hand corner of my laptop got significantly hotter than I would like it to when just downloading some games with no applications open on normal fans, after I turned them to max the temps and machine itself feels better but the HWinfo numbers don't necessarily reflect that, is this just normal? I do not feel like my desktop jumps around this much. My PCH was also sitting around 70 degrees until I maxed the fans and now seems to be running around 55, I know this has been touched on a little bit but what is safe normal temps for the PCH and when should one start to be worried? I will need to monitor it a little bit more next time I get to game on it. As much as I love this machine and had been looking forward to it, I have barely been able to really play any games on it and do anything other than basic browsing and work on it as when I am home my desktop is my go to machine and laptop temps make me uncomfortable to go back to using as a main primary machine all the time rather than a portable workstation when I need it.

Ran FS one more time while sitting here total score was 18134, with a GS of 22471, PS of 14591, and CS of 8705. Temps hi 76 and 75 for my GPU and CPU respectively, but I know if I were playing a game and not just a quick benchmark that GPU temp would get a bit higher.

 

You can always use a frame limiter or scale down settings. Many settings from ultra down to highest are not terribly noticeable which can really impact your gpu temps. For example, I can run Doom at 119 fps with settings toned down and keep my gpu around 85-88 C. I like my temps lower, even though this is safe, so I'll crank settings back up and limit to 90 fps and get 75-80 C. These are max temps, not average. My cpu hardly rises into the 70s. I keep my fans maxed whenever I run demanding apps because I'd rather replace the fan than almost anything else. Have you experimented much this way?

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Edit: Room temp is 21.1C
I don't use laptop cooling pad or lift it up

My most comfortable OC without reaching 90's temps
4.9 CPU @ -0.025v @ 80C Max
+200/+200 GPU @ 84C Max



For everyday tasks and most gaming
4.6 CPU @ -0.100v @ 68C Max
-50 @ 0.937v GPU @ 72C Max

 

I've noticed that the temp sensors are very rapid-response on this machine, compared to my experience with server-grade hardware. That's not necessarily a problem, but it does mean you have to mentally filter the data as you interpret. I've found it helpful to stretch out the time window of the data display (for graphic display, such as in XTU) to keep from obsessing over instantaneous changes.

On my machine, most of those short spikes in CPU activity are traceable to background tasks like software checking itself for updates. Web browsers -- especially if you're on a page with a lot of JavaScript or (ugh!) Flash -- are also notorious for siphoning CPU in the background.

 

Not too much yet, to be honest I don't run most games at Ultra settings (aside from single player games) because of weird experiences in CS where having "better" settings will act weird and add input lag and tends to cause issues so when I play competitive multiplayer games I typically turn a lot of settings down anyway but frame limiting is definitely something I can look into for games that are running higher than they need to. Something like PUBG for instance, I have most settings turned down to high or medium but that game heats up my laptop quite a bit and is not even hitting 120+ fps on a regular basis.

I definitely understand what you mean and where you are coming from, I'm not always watching it on a regular basis but when my laptop is idling and I look up and see it peaked at 70 something degrees for my CPU it starts to worry me but I know it jumps around a ton, I guess I'm just not that used to the numbers fluctuating so much so quickly.

 

get us pictures then we can tell.

 

very good scores ! Impressive !

Thanks for mentioning that you purchased it from me and my services.

For the record if anyone needs parts as well, I have those too, upgrades and stuff and other laptops.

[ removed: direct linking by resellers is not permitted ]

however most people contact me directly and we work out details whatever is possible, sometimes even just using me as a 3rd party service, and buying elsewhere, as many of the other vendors here are very noteworthy as well, and active in this thread.

 

That's what I want to see! Awesome scores and just to think, there is still untapped potential. We can hit as high as 20,500 if you are insane like Mr. Fox and I.

With that said, scores of 18k+ are again, awesome. We are beating DT's that are watercooled and that can push more air. Truly, think about that. Laptop owners use to play second fiddle to DT's.

To those having heat problems, make sure to experiment with different brands of paste. At idle with 4.5 and the gpu at stock, my cpu temp is 30 (with spikes of 38) and my gpu hovers at 35. That's with IC diamond.

 

I'm at a point where I just don't know if I believe some of the sensors in the machine lol. Some people are reporting idle temps of the mid to high 30s or low 40s, yet I'm getting 50s with the bottom cover mod @ 4.7ghz and I was getting the same readings when at 4.5 before the mod, and even after the mod before I went up nothing seemed to change however my load temps are definitly better. I have just never seen a PC or CPU spike around and flucuate this much before...sitting here idling or downloading a game in steam and my cpu is idling at 55 and spiking up to 75 which just seems ridiculous to me on normal fans however I do feel the machine getting a bit warm. I'm just questioning how accurate some of these readings are, it makes no sense to me. When I turn on max fans I go from a whopping 55 idle to 50 lol, yet load temps are fine and especially when I am on max fans. I know people say to only worry about temps when under load, but I can't imagine if the CPU is actually idling at temps like this, it can't be any good for the machine. I will be trying different paste at some point but I can't see repasting the machine myself after everything HID has done to it miraculously changing the temps by 15+ degrees. I guess I just don't understand the difference between some peoples machines and what they are reporting but I don't know anymore. My GPU hovers around 38 which is great it's when it's under load in a game it starts to worry me, but 55 to 75 from downloading steam games or idling on a desktop with steam running in the background just doesn't exactly sound right yet some people say they are around 50 as well then others report in the 30s....idk anymore. (This is without a cooling pad btw)

 

There are many factors that you have to consider regarding system temperatures. You have silicon lottery, fit of the heat transfer components, quality of the TIM, quality of the spread on the TIM, heat generated from other components, paths of airflow due to component layout, ambient temperatures, and the varying quality of the surrounding components. We may all have the same book, but they are not really the same book. HID is going to do the best they can, but if your lid wasn't the best sample from Intel, HID wouldn't fix that. They can't pick and choose components at will. You can always upgrade where they can be picky, but after that it's up to us to make those final improvements.

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It is perfectly fine for the Laptop to constantly idle anywhere under the designed thermal load. Anywhere below 60C is great (but technically it wouldn't be harmful if higher). Lower Idle temps are desirable because it usually means load temps are much lower too, and determines overclocking room

GPU is a little more complicated due to Pascals' very small down-clock increments every 5C above 50C. But again, it can technically idle at a higher temp and not be damaged.

 

You haven't told what ambient temp you have where you use your laptop. Don't forget people have different ambient temp home. F.eks some can have hot 33C inside home and will thus have higher cpu idle temp vs. colder idle cpu temp if you have lower ambient temp, lets say 19/20C home.

Regarding temp spikes as you said... "sitting here idling or downloading a game in steam and my cpu is idling at 55 and spiking up to 75 which just seems ridiculous to me on normal fans". OEMs prefer to put in fanprofiles who dont let the fans reacts fast enough when the cpu temp spikes up. And if the cpu temp go fast down again they don't even let the fans start up at all. If the fan have to react to every single temp spikes and then go fast down again, we would have got fans who have turned on and off the whole time. Not everyone likes this fan behavior. It's hard to get it both ways as people want it different. We should really have had better possibilities to create our own preferred fan profiles (proper manual fan controll in the software bloat who follow the laptop).

 

Have Task Manager open at all times on the CPU usage graph, then if you see temperatures spiking during normal use then you'd look over to your CPU usage monitor and see if something was gobbling up CPU cycles - this would explain temperature spikes; Windows 10 & other programs often ask for CPU time on a regular basis.

The fact that max fans at idle only reduce temps from 55 to 50 is a bit suspicious - I would have expected more, but to be honest you shouldn't be idling at 50 - I think my point above stands, sounds like something is keeping your CPU constantly active.

If you find that your CPU is not constantly being used when idle, and you're still having high temperatures then I think you have to look to the hardware side of things - correct fitment of heatsink, thermal paste correctly applied, etc.

And finally, as Papusan said - if your ambient room temperature is high (in the 30's), then your PC is gonna run hot full stop.

 

Could someone with the 4k display please do a quick little test to help me troubleshoot a display issue? It should only take a couple minutes.

Just test that your display works reliably after selecting 'Legacy' or 'UEFI with CSM' boot option.
Obviously your OS may not boot, but you should still see the EVOC logo pop up and be taken to the BIOS menu again. It can take me dozens of hard resets before I hit the lottery and I'm greeted by the EVOC logo, otherwise I just get a backlight with a blank display. Cheers.

 

I'd offer to do this, but for work-related reasons my SSD is encrypted with BitLocker. That stuff is crazy picky about any change -- even if reverted -- to the BIOS boot mode. According to Microsoft's app note I was reading a few days ago, if I mess with the boot setting in my BIOS, BitLocker will drop me into its "recovery mode" and require the hexadecimal recovery key on every boot thereafter.

There is a "suspend protection" mode that might allow me to safely test this, but I'm not enough of a Windows expert yet (I'm a Linux sysadmin professionally) to be confident about whether or not it would be enough. Perhaps someone else with a strong Windows sysadmin history can enlighten me?

 

FYI, I'm experimenting with 4.8 GHz turbo and a higher CPU core voltage on my machine, now that I have the bottom panel mod and noticing lower CPU temps. Tested 4.8 GHz at 1.155 V (up from 1.140 previously) and was mostly stable but eventually crashed. Now testing 4.8 GHz at 1.170 V, and just did a very large Unity project build maxing all four cores for extended time, no problems. Temps get up to 90C if I don't max the fans manually, but stay around 81C if I do (as is my normal habit).

I've got my turbo power limit at 91W, and seeing occasional throttling due to that limit. Is it safe to bump that up a little?

I wish this machine was just a little more aggressive about fan speed without me having to manually max them, but I'm grateful that I have the easy keyboard switch to do so. Fortunately, my workload is such that I almost always know when I'm about to start a heavy CPU batch job.

 

It's certainly safe from your 7700K's perspective, because you're not using much voltage at all, whether it's safe from your motherboards perspective is a different question, but I should think it is - 91W doesn't sound like a huge amount and I know others must have benched above that limit.

 

Huh? You got the EVOC, why did yours not come with the "Silent Option" app? It allows complete manual control over fan curves

 

Good News! We have P5000 running in Tornado F5W C236 Edition. We will have some benchmarks coming soon. Check with Eurocom Team for details.

 

How's the Tornado F7 coming along?

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F7 will be based on Coffee Lake2 with 8cores/16treads and Z390 chipset - still in planning stage for release in 2H/18 when Z390 gets released.

 

It's only a limit and no danger in increase it. If you increase the power limits, You will most likely see a bit higher max temp due (less) no throttling. The max core voltage you can obtain on laptops is too low to being a danger for your chips. The chips will overheat long time before max voltage is needed for holding clocks.

 

I'm trying to connect two DisplayPort monitors to my TF5 (GTX 1070).

My #1 choice is the IOGEAR USB-C Dual DisplayPort Monitor Portable Dock - GUC3CMST (https://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-USB-C...=USB-C+Dual+DisplayPort+Monitor+Portable+Dock)
The concern is that the motherboard/USB-C port must have the following:
**DisplayPort 1.2 with MST+HBR2 support from the GPU is required for video output under extended mode. DVI and HDMI pass-through must be supported on video card or video source for DisplayPort to DVI/HDMI video adapter support.
**DispayPort Alt mode must be supported on the USB-C port.

My second choice is the StarTech.com Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort Multi Monitor Splitter - 2-Port MST Hub - mDP 1.2 to 2x DP MST Hub (https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-DisplayPort-Multi-Monitor-Splitter/dp/B00XXPYOJW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1504702554&sr=8-5&keywords=displayport+mst+hub&th=1)
There is a concern with this adapter as well:
**DisplayPort 1.2 with MST+HBR2 support from the GPU is required for independent display output

#3:
Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dual DisplayPort Output Display Adapter for Thunderbolt 3 Windows Systems (http://plugable.com/products/tbt3-dp2x/)
Concern is:
To be compatible with our Dual Thunderbolt 3 Graphics Adapters for Windows, the host Thunderbolt 3-enabled system must meet the following requirements:
Current Thunderbolt 3 host firmware (NVM)
System manufacturer must have physically routed two DP lines to the Thunderbolt 3 port. All Dell Thunderbolt 3 systems we’re aware of meet this requirement. Support from other manufacturers varies from model to model.
Requires updated system UEFI BIOS, Thunderbolt 3 drivers, and graphics (GPU) drivers from the system manufacturer
@Diversion @Mr. Fox @Papusan @syscrusher @Donald@HIDevolution @rancid @win32asmguy or anyone - Ideas on my concerns above?

Possible diagram with first option (using Packed Pixels monitors):

 

Thanks. I bumped it just slightly (91W to 94W) since it was only throttling for brief intervals. Small steps...

 

Doh! I'll check my driver USB. I did a clean Windows install soon after getting my machine, after a third-party disk encryption utility made Windows eat itself, and I must have missed installing that one. Thanks.

 

Just ordered a EVOC 16L-G-1080 today. My old desktop wasn't cutting it anymore.
Lots of great support info here!

Donald at HIDevolution was really helpful. I gave up looking for a gtx1080 in a 15" laptop when Don pointed me to the 16L-G-1080.

 

I predict you will love this machine, and the HID Evolution team are great. (No disrespect to the other resellers here, whom I cannot rate simply because I've never done business with them.)

 

Revision to my previous comment: After further review of the Microsoft app note, I decided it was safe enough to try this with BitLocker in "suspended protection" mode, so I did.

The good news (for me) is that I was correct, and BitLocker did not go into recovery mode after restarting, because I suspended it before shutting down.

The bad news (for you) is that I was not able to replicate your problem. I restarted the machine several times, and was able to get to the BIOS setup by pressing DEL every time.

I have found sometimes that ESC doesn't get me to BIOS setup, for some reason, regardless of settings, but DEL is 100% reliable for me. (Nota bene: The ESC issue was present before this test, not induced by the UEFI setting.)

 

Thankyou. You didn't have to risk that but I do appreciate it! The plot thickens...

 

My unit died, it's on its way back to HID for repair. Let you guys know how it goes.

 

What happened?

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when a gpu dies a man's heart stop for a moment..

here
What game are you playing now?

 

I only did the test after assuring myself the risk was minimal, but....you're welcome. Sorry the result wasn't more conclusive for you.

 

What is/was wrong with Coffee Lake "1" with the Z370? That's supposed to be out "soon", like within 2 months.

Coffee Lake 2 and the Z390 in 2H18 is basically a full year away from now for the production laptop shipping.

 

Maybe beacause of Volta? And 6 core BGA ain't ready either. So why stress?

 

For MSI whitebox there's probably not enough lifespan in a new 17.3" Pascal build, so probably Volta is the reason, but for other laptop makers, will they be thinking the same?

That might mean Coffee Lake "1" z370 won't have a lot of participation for creating new laptops?

IDK, sounds fishy, and very disappointing.

 

Its all about money, bruh. They will release it if they can have a gain. Aka most possible CASH

 

what we talking about ?

There is going to be a refresh for sure, late december most likely. Like same time this year as F5 was last year if I had to guess.

 

Quietest I've seen this thread in ages, haha

 

check this
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-coffee-lake-status.807915/page-29

 

Does Prema bios provide an update to the Thunderbolt 3 port?

 

Guess I'll head on over and see whats up.

Why would Prema's fix a thundervolt 3 issue ? (genuinely asking, like, has he fixed it in another system ?)

 

Thunderbolt ports are updated every-so often for functionality and to fix bus issues. Largely, most people update them for egpu compatibility. No clue if the F5 has one or even needs one, was just curious.

 

Yea- I too personally have never tested it by using it for eGPU

 

Supposedly MSI has been slipstreaming the TB3 firmware updates into the TB3 software installer for the GS series laptops. You may try running the GS63VR TB software installer on the Tornado F5 and see if the firmware gets updated in the process.

I tried both an Akitio Node (with a GTX 1070 Founder's Edition) and a HP Thunderbolt 3 dock with the Tornado F5 before I sold it, both worked fine with the stock firmware.