*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

@menko Is the back of the laptop elevated using a stand or a cooling stand?

 

Thank you very much. I managed to get the CPU at 80°C undervolt with core voltaje offset -110 at 4,39Ghz.
That's ok for me.

Now I'm going with the GPU which I get this:


I get 90°C with stock everything in GPU and fans at full max.

Any idea of how can I lower this temp?

 

You are welcome. Nice job improving the CPU. Re-read the information above, as that answers your question about improving the GPU temps. You can also lower the GPU voltage curve as @ThatOldGuy has explained.

 

I can't find the message about how to lower the voltage curve.

Do you have the link or post that explain it?

 

Tested at 4.9Ghz, holds clocks nicely with a static 1210Mv but had less points, 14500ish compared to 4.8Ghz and that is probably due to more heat as I didn't have a cooler pad at that moment.

Now back at 4.4 with a 1050Mv doing AIDA stress test, after 7 minutes all 4 cores are overheating...no air pad.

So the question is, why on 5.0Ghz the clocks don't hold? Heat can be managed with an air pad nicely in an A/C room.

 

So couple questions about the EVOC 16l-g-1080. Im petty sure im going to order this laptop from HID In the very near future. I want this laptop for gaming only so do you think this is a good option since it nost definitely the most powerful option around especially in 15 inch form factor?? How is it built?? Is the build good quality? And most importantly how does it handle heat while doing some intensive gaming for hours at a time?? Like i said this is going to be for gaming only. I want something in 15 inch so i can travel with it easier through airports and what not. I was originally thinking alienware but this is actually cheaper and is obv wayyy more powerful. Is it a low maintenance machine for the most part? Im new to pc gaming so how much am i going to have to tweak the cpu and gpu to get it gaming nicely?? Im just trying go figure out whats best for me. I think this is a good option i just wanted your guys honest opinions. Thanks guys.

 

Most likely due MSI engineers has put in some nasty tveaks(in firmware level who can't be removed).
Nice job with trying to increase FS physics score. +rep
From your older post.
What cpu temp you get in Firestrike with 4.8 vs. 4.9GHz?

 

Did you open Throttlestop and check Limit Reasons to be sure those clocks are actually holding at 4.9 ghz? Make sure the CPU goes over 91W when you do a CPU test.

Check the same thing at 5 ghz also though. Most likely Power Limit 2 throttling (Cancer firmware).

 

I only remember seeing it, and since I do not do that I will let @ThatOldGuy old guy explain what he does and how to do it.

MSI engineered it with functional limitations that cannot be corrected by firmware mods.

This is the only good 15-inch notebook made as far as I am concerned. Everything else blows in comparison to it, so good and wise choice. Getting it from HIDevolution is excellent. It will have most of the thermal management tweaks already done for you, along with the CMOS battery access mod, and it will have @Prema BIOS by default. Here is my review of it as the Eurocom Tornado F5. This was before any kind of tweaks (brand new, stock BIOS) and will give you a good look at it in an unpolished state. It is well made and easy to work on.

Also, subscribe and check out the other videos in my YouTube channel.

For most people the limitations will never be relevant or apparent. Most won't want to overclock that high, and most don't know how. For guys like us the limitations are a problem.

 

If HWiNFO64 is running, that gives a lot more detailed information than ThrottleStop does. If ThrottleStop Limit Reasons light up, those errors will also show in HWiNFO64. Both are excellent programs for different reasons, but you have to either watch ThrottleStop or use the log feature. Not sure if the Limit Reasons are in the log file or not... I have not checked for that.

 

You can now see everything in real time. Put up Hwinfo as you want and follow exactly what you want monitoring.

 

Nice new feature. Another option to using RTSS and OSD.

 

Can't remember exactly but 4.8 was around 82-85 without air pad and 4.9 around 89c-92c without air pad.

Used HWinfo, no power limit I believe but will check on 5.0Ghz as the Physics scores were horrendous compared to the recent 4.8/4.9Ghz.

Argh, nothing is perfect in this world! But I still like this little beast, really enjoying daily driving it at home and at work 24/7. Money well spent I'd say

 

Thanks for the replies regarding the EVOC 16l-g-1080. How is the screen in terms of color accuracy?? And should i be concerned that it doesnt come with gsync?? Just for reference i want to get the 1080p 120hz monitor. At home i will most likely get a different monitor to play on but i do travel alot for work so i will be using the laotop screen quite often. Thanks again.

 

All 16L-13 display choices include G-Sync.

 

I use the laptop normal, straight. But I notice that lifting it up changes the temps like 4°C. A lot!

 

Wow what a change in my laptop...

I remove the low cover completely to simulate how it will be with the holes where the fans are and the temps went down around 8°C in CPU and 11°C in GPU. I hope the temps with only the holes will stay the same as without any bottom-cover. Also the fact of being lifted with the cover helped so I'll get a Coolpad with fans.

I could overclock the GPU 150mhz and memory 350mhz and I got this score.

Slowly is getting better and temps as well.

 

The 1080p 120hz monitor does not support G-sync. I have had no issues with the screen but not gotten as much time to game on my machine as others may have. I have not used a G-sync monitor so I cannot speak from experience but I always thought G-sync was a little unnecessary and waste of money if you have a high refresh rate monitor, especially if you have a PC that can keep the frames up for it. I have a 144hz screen for my desktop and 120hz on my laptop and I feel like I get the same experience when using both monitors (one does not feel smoother or anything per say being 24hz different) especially since this laptop can keep 120fps in most games, especially if you lower some settings. Maybe people who have used G-sync displays and have used this 120hz screen without it can shed some other input but to be honest, I do not feel like I am missing out in the slightest. This is better than any other 60hz laptop screen I have ever used in the past and I love how smooth it is and being able to get similar (the same) performance out of it as I get on my desktop computer.

As far as color accuracy. I do not have a tool to measure it or adjust it using some of the tools that people have out there, but I have no issues with color accuracy (but I am not doing serious color/image work, just basic desktop work and gaming). I mean, it is a TN panel vs IPS so it's not the best display ever made, but in terms of how the screen looks and with color accuracy, I would definitely say it has better colors than my Asus VG248QE which seems to have very bland colors and requires me using a icc profile and setting digital vibrance to 85% or higher in nvidia control panel to get decent looking colors. This screen looks better out of the box and there is a icc profile to download for it as well which may help if needed.

 

There you go! Very nice! Your temps will be very similar with the holes as with the bottom cover removed. Check with @Donald@HIDevolution if they are selling the bottom covers modded still or if they ran out. Then you can keep your stock one as a spare. The fans are almost touching the bottom cover. I don't know what the morons that designed that were thinking. I always use the word "choke" to describe it, because that is exactly what it does.

Be really careful on the cooling pad. Most of them are worthless garbage. It will cost more, but do yourself a favor and get a U3 and forget about anything else. If you cannot afford to buy all of the parts for modding at once, just get the U3 for now and buy the modding parts in stages as you can afford it. The stock fans are extra crappy, but still a better product than any other cooling pad. If you cannot afford a U3 right now, don't waste your money on anything else. Just use a couple of plastic Coke bottle caps under the rubber feet in back or a short stick of 1"x 2" lumber to raise the back of it until you can buy a U3.

I have modded three of them, and remodded them again. @Papusan and many others have followed suit. Below are several albums of photos you can look at.

Notepal U3 Fan Mod | MrFox - Imgur
Notepal U3 Plus Fan Mod | MrFox - Imgur
Another U3 Mod | MrFox - Imgur

 

I see the U3 PLUS on Amazon for $41.99 is this the same as a "u3"? Is there a "normal U3" VS a "PLUS"? I have some iteration of a U2 or U3 at home (believe it is 3 but I gave it to my brother to use as he uses a BGA crap book as his primary PC and did not head my advice a year or 2 ago when he bought it and build a new desktop or get a different laptop, at least he went with a Clevo though) but I have not looked or checked it in a while and I'm not sure if there is a difference between them? Either way, it worked great just using it as a standard cooling pad without modding, I guess I didn't realize how lucky I got when I just happened to see and buy that one vs other junk that was out there years ago when I got my AW17.

 

They are similar. Look at the photos in the links above and you can see the difference. I prefer the older U3 over the U3 Plus. The differences are small. The newer one doesn't really have any features that the original did not have. The older U3 is a bit thicker metal, and the rear edge is moved a little. There are one or two fewer rows of holes on the U3 Plus. Either one is good, but if both are available for near the same price, go with the U3.

I tired several other very popular brand name coolers and returned all of them for a refund except the last one. It was mail order (not store bought like the others) and I used some parts off of it and threw the rest of it in the trash. Ironically, the crappiest one that I threw away was also made by CoolerMaster.

The U2 is basically the same as U3 except it is smaller and intended for small laptops.

 

I have problems with space in my desk. Will the U2 serve properly as well? I also will travel with it.

 

This might be completely impossible, but since even the mighty Prema was unable to do it, there may be one "Chance" for you to disable the throttling at 5 ghz, but without access to this laptop, this is pure conjecture.

First, make sure you set the voltage you know is stable for 5 ghz.
Then, use Throttlestop to set the multiplier manually to 4.8 or 4.9 ghz, run your benchmark and check your scores.
If you are satisfied with it, then, download "RW Everything" and go to the "EC" tab. Make sure the system is idle then take a screenshot

Take a screenshot of the values you see at 4.8 ghz.
Then use Throttlestop and set the multiplier to 5 ghz.
Then make a screenshot of the idle settings on EC RAM.

Then try to see if you can toggle Throttlestop profiles (save a 4.8 ghz and 5 ghz profile in two profiles e.g. 4.8 ghz for high performance (profile 1) and 5 ghz for game (profile 2) in TS. Then just toggle between them. Try to look for a single register that changes by a certain, predictable amount every time, to the exact same value, that does NOT change by itself automatically. It has to be predictable and repeatable and always the exact same change. If you find something like this. note the value at 4.8 ghz and then when you switch to 5 ghz, try changing the value to the 4.8 ghz value and see if this avoids the power limit throttling.

It's very likely you might find something but its even more likely the value that changes will just revert automatically.

 

If you have space for your laptop, then you have space for U3. U2 won't serve you. Too small.

 

The U3 is up to 19" laptop and U2 for 17".

It should be ok no? The U3 will be better but in the backpack...

 

U2 346 x 282 x 60mm (13.6 X 11.1 x 2.4 inch) (W x H x D)


Whats the point with a cooler who cant fill the whole lenght of Laptop bottom? I have a 17.3 inches laptop. The U3 is barely big enough. If I used as you say U2 estimated up to 17 inches laptops... That means +8 cm shorter than the length of my laptop.

Edit. If you really need something very portable, buy this or just use a couple of bottle caps.

 

No, see below. It will not be OK.

The 16L13 is 15.5 inches long x 10.75 inches wide.

Not only is the 16L13 too large to fit the surface of the U2, and will overhang the sides by more than one inch, the fans will not be able to be positioned where they can provide much benefit. I think it is ludicrous that they say it supports 15 and 17 inch laptops. That's just baloney.

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-NotePal-PLUS-Performance/dp/B00CPZJP7M

The U3 is the only good option... https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-NotePal-PLUS-Performance/dp/B00ED3WMTC

 

Will the 120hz panel ever support G-Sync?

Also, does having the 120hz panel still break brightness control? If so, how are you all dealing with that? Using third party software to artificially dim the screen?

 

I did the same thing, scouring Google and Amazon for the U3 for a few days before I realized that HIDevolution has it. Quick email to @Donald@HIDevolution and he got it added to my order so there was it could be included with my laptop in one shipment.

 

Probably will never be certified for G-Sync. Not a big deal with 120Hz. Brightness control was fixed with newer Geforce drivers.

 

OK, that is gonna take some work and for it I need time, which is kinda limited for a while until I can be free at evenings. Will hunt that variable but let me tinker with this beast some more, I want to try to see if I up the voltage a bit more will I get a stable OC I wonder.....

 

Mr. Fox,

• Memory: OC from 2400 to 2800<<<<Is there such a thing as RAM learning when you reboot? When I tried last time to OC the RAM on reboot it was taking some time with a black screen so I hard rebooted and returned to previous settings in the BIOS for the ram, was that a mistake from my part, should I have let it take it's time?
• Is removing the C clips going to help with temps or is it just the convenience stuff?
• Can you post a photo of those washers you used to separate the GPU and CPU heatsink connection? Are they plastic?
• Lapping the IHS, should I buy a bitspower IHS then do this lapping thing which I don't know yet how to do it? If it helps with temps I want to do it.
• I must break past 20K FS points so I can rest in peace!!

 

When changing RAM timings, wait 60 seconds. Usually it will power cycle by itself after 60 seconds and either revert the timings or boot anyway. Sometimes you draw the short stick and have to clear CMOS because it just keeps power cycling forever.

 

Thank you, I needed to know this, I only gave it less than a minute and panicked.........thought it should boot like it normally does.

 

Does third party software that set brightness exist? I want to install B156ZAN02.3 panel in my Tornado F5 but the user Cavell219 told me that it's impossible to set brightness of that panel on Tornado at the moment. With newer panels it shuts down back light, so you have to use older drivers to get brightness set at max value.

 

I have the EVOC with Prema Bios and it works fine, I heard the Eurocom F5 needs the unlocked Bios to resolve the issue.

There is something wrong though for my panel, sometimes when it goes to standby and I come back to it, it will not light up for me which forces me to hard reset the laptop again, it didn't do this before so I think it's the new nvidia drivers.

 

Yes, RAM training occurs any time you change a setting. It can often take more than 60 seconds. Getting my P870 to train for 3200 often takes 10 minutes or so, and multiple automatic reboots. Setting 3333 sometimes takes 30 minutes and a dozen or more automatic reboots before the BIOS decides what it likes. If nothing happens at all and it just sits there for 10 minutes and never turns off or anything, give up, clear the CMOS and start over.

Removing the c-clips is not convenient. It's actually a little more inconvenient. They are only there to keep the screws and springs assembled and attached to the heat sink after you remove the heat sink, so they are unnecessary. They can interfere with contact. If the c-clip hits the heat sink before the springs have pushed the heat sink firmly against the CPU they need to be removed. Removing them eliminates an impediment to the range of motion of the heat sink sliding up and down on the screws while being pushed by the springs. If that is not happening, and the heat sink is being pressed against the CPU IHS firmly before hitting the c-clips, then removing them will change nothing. I could see this problem happening on the P870 (even made a video showing it). It is not impossible to see into that space on the 16L13. Maybe if I removed the bottom housing to get a clear line of sight I could tell. I just went ahead and removed them since I could not see well enough and it helped improve contact and temps. There is enough sloppiness in laptop production tolerances where this could be an issue on one machine and not another just like it. There is no harm whatsoever in removing them.

The washers are just ordinary metal flat washers like you would get from a hardware store. I stacked two of them and used Super Glue to hold them together and stick them to the heat sink. They are larger than ideal and do not fit on the screws, so I used them next to the screws like a shim. Next time I go to the hardware store I will get smaller washers and stack to or three of them and put the screws through them instead of the larger ones next to the screws. Be sure not to stack too many or the screws will be too short and may pull/strip the threads. You only need enough to create a small air space to stop heat transfer.

Yes, get the Skylake version of the Bitspower IHS. I have a video in my YouTube channel showing how to do the lap job. It's super easy to do. Anyone can do it.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrFoxRox2/videos

Yeah, that is a driver problem, not an issue with the panel itself. Your observation that it did not used to have that problem and now it does with a different video driver is a good one and you probably have the answer already (using a driver that works better.) Resuming from sleep is notorious for having issues that can be difficult or impossible to resolve. I have sleep and hibernation disabled. When I am done using a computer I just turn it off.

 

The drivers of the Eurocom website for the Fornado F5 are really old but they recomend no to update from manufacters websites.

Is that true or i can get updated drivers from somewhere else?

 

Yes, you can get updated drivers somewhere else. If you have installed W10 you actually do not need anything different except for NVIDIA and Realtek Audio drivers (and even those they provide through native support or Windows Update generally work OK). You will gain nothing by using the newest drivers for the other things and for the most part doing so is a waste of time. In fact, if your system is running stable a newer driver could adversely affect that. If you want to try it anyway, go to each manufacturer web site and/or station-drivers to find the latest drivers available.

KLM and SCM are needed if you want control of the keyboard lighting, webcam, etc. SCM is mostly unnecessary bloat, so unless you really need it just skip it.

For Synaptics touchpad, use the older driver I posted a day or two ago. Their newer drivers are junk, as can often be the case with other device drivers as well. Examples: the best GeForce drivers for me are 378.66 (released 2/9/2017) for Windows 10 and 375.70 (released 10/25/2016) for Windows 7.

 

LOL. I can totally understand why you love your Titan Pro based on build quality and looks. Had MSI not done what they did with the cancer firmware and unfixable power limits I would be an MSI fanboy right now. Love everything else about the little beast, but I can't forgive them for that nonsense. Looking at the crap @Falkentyne has been battling, it's not a one-off scenario. Maybe that's why they use low TDP BGA CPUs in everything else they sell. The engineering defects are not as apparent .

 

Still waiting on the 17" MSI whitebook lol

 

One thing is 100% sure... GT73’s Cpu heatsink is a Hell loot better than the TRIPOD Mess in Dellienware’s.
But good quality Heatsink can’t save it from other defects. Impossible!!

 

cannot comment on the power limits on the GL16 but on my Titan Pro, I never have any issues. I have the unlocked BIOS. Simply setting the ICC/Processor Power max from auto to 100A (a value of 400 in the BIOS) results in 0 throttling

 

High clocks use powa. Not the power limits. It’s only a limit.

 

You're not pushing it up to or beyond 4.8GHz, are you? There are no problems of any kind until I exceed 91W for a few seconds, and that yanks the rug out from underneath it. It's actually predicable and designed to do that, which is why it is a problem. @Prema removed all throttle code from firmware, so it has to be an engineered hardware limit.

None of my three 7700K use more than about 90W in most things unless I exceed 4.8GHz. My MSI works flawlessly at or below stock TDP. I think the problem is they built it like it was designed for a BGA CPU with nowhere near the power consumption capabilities, or they did something at a hardware level to block power consumption greater than stock TDP. I can set the BIOS to like 900W (max out everything as far as it will go) and it makes no difference. The behavior is the same as if I set it to 100W. Something is limiting it. I'm pretty sure if you push your max overclock on the 7820K it won't be 100W. I could be wrong, but I think the only BGA CPU capable of approaching anywhere remotely close to that much is 7820HK. If you are doing like 4.5 or 4.6GHz, I suspect you would see somewhere in the vicinity of 75W at most. 7820HK is fairly close to a poorly binned 7700K and I see less than 75W at 4.6GHz.

Exactly. Those settings have no effect on anything unless you try to exceed them.

 

Throttling issues are only apparent when using TDP modded video cards. 1080 models will CPU throttle if you exceed 330W power draw. 1070 will throttle the CPU at >230W power draw. You would have to mod your 1080 to 258W (with the 1080 preset button in the editor) and load something >60W on the CPU to experience that.

My 1070 is modded to 185W, so I can manage to draw 310W to the system under unrealistic loads. That's only possible changing the powerID to 330W.

You still have to deal with the battery drain issue (You can see it live if you exceed 250W power draw and stare at batteryinfoview; you'll see the mw slowly go down).

 

Here is hot steamy deep dish colon loaf of MSI magic... note this is wPrime 32m and it takes less than 5 seconds for their TDP Nazi cancerware to metastasize. And, it's not the CPU sample. I swapped with the Clevos and bought a new one for the 16L13 and all three work flawlessly in the Clevos and all three malfunction exactly the same in the MSI.

Note: If I run something like Fire Strike at 5.0GHz it does not throttle because Fire Strike does not stress the CPU enough to push the watts as high as Cinebench or wPrime, 3DMark 11 or 3DMark Vantage. The problem only surfaces in heavily CPU intensive tasks that push the watts higher.

As much as I hate it, I still have to admit that in spite of this sad limitation, the 16L13 is more powerful (and reliable) that any other laptop except for the P870DM3. That's pretty sad, even though second place is an admirable ranking. It is a real shame that it has an engineering defect. It won't affect any normal user, because hardly anyone else (just a few) want to go as high or beyond 4.8GHz. So, they can get away with it and still come out in second place.

4.5GHz - check...
4.7GHz - check...

4.8GHz - check...

5.0Ghz - pack it up and go home. Nothing to see here.

 

@Mr. Fox
If you're bored, can you try to run an 8 thread AVX prime 95 at 4.7 ghz? That will exceed 100W, and you may wind up reaching #Prochot anyway, but all you have to do is check for PL2 throttling.
If 4.7 ghz can pass 100W, then try 4.8 ghz. 4.9 ghz will fail for sure.

My 7820HK can draw 98W at 4.5 ghz (only possible in 8 thread AVX (FMA3) prime95 and that would be impossible without LM (instant prochot).

 

I am almost positive it will throttle the same at 4.7GHz if it hits 100W and stays there for more than a few seconds. It is not clock speed related. It is a power handling limit that reflects either an intentional and deliberate act or engineering incompetence by MSI. Different, but same in principle as what they did to castrate your beast. Totally inexcusable and the reason I have written off the MSI brand. Their desktop stuff is pretty sweet, but I am boycotting them for their laptop bullcrap.

Let me find and download it. I have absolutely no use for Prime95 (or other abusive software, like Furmark,) so I don't have a copy of it saved locally.

 

Everything here. Both new and old version.