*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

I might go for the 7700T

 

I'm still observing the weirdest behavior where my laptop is pretty flaky with an undervolt UNLESS I hit the max fan speed button. If I go max fans, i'm stable.. no issues.. even at -180mv/-180mv.. How does that work, I have no idea. It's not a temp issue either :/

 

That is very strange. Unstable as in black screens? Does this only happen while gaming?

I'd say it's entirely possible something not monitored by a temp sensor is getting way too hot and tripping the laptop to black screen. Maybe a VRM? They are starting in fire on the desktop side haha.

I haven't had any of those issues though. I sit at -165mV for daily driving now. Haven't had it crash and it shaves off a good bit of temps.

 

Black screens only when gaming.. but screen freezes in windows only on auto fans.. Otherwise on Max fans all good over here. Everything works fine.. I pass OCCT/Realbench for 1+ hours, etc.etc.. I can't make it past like 10 minutes and sometimes less with auto fans.. It's almost like something about the voltage going to the fans is somehow affecting the CPU and GPU or just GPU.. It does seem like i'm only unstable with auto when the GPU is factored in though. Because with auto fans and doing a non GPU intensive stress test it's also fine for long periods of time.

So right now i'm back on auto fans at -180/-180 and running OCCT.. Seeing it if will crash being only a CPU test..

 

17 minutes in on OCCT.. No issues.. So it seems when I factor in some GPU load with CPU load i'm unstable., You'd probably think power related problems immediately but i'm on my 330watt and everything is fixed with max fans.. Makes no sense.. My max temps so far in OCCT auto fans is 65c so temps aren't an issue. I am baffled and it's pretty bothersome because i'm almost forced to use max fans if I want to game with an undervolt :/

 

Ooh! new Geforce drivers.. 375.86 came out today! Maybe that will help my weird issue.

 

Is there any error reported in event viewer? Just want to rule out buggy drivers.

You might actually be on to something Max fans does promote airflow to other components including those without temperature sensors.

 

You may have hit on the key, I'd start checking that if I were Eurocom's support.

 

Uuuggghh! Who told you?!?!

Yeah, I think G-Stink is irrelevant, too. The only real reason I would want it is for potential resale value to be better because some people think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Not having for me means just one less piece of crap setting that I don't have to intentionally disable in NVIDIA Control Panel.

 

To find out if it's VRM related, i'm going to just set voltage to CPU stock and let Heaven run for a while and see if I crash.. To completely rule out if it's an undervolt issue or GPU right now. Reporting back soon.

 

Me too if the video editing program will benefit from it but I dont know which one I am using or going to use.

 

I'm getting this weird event: "The speed of processor 0 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 32 seconds since the last report."

But I don't see any CPU limitation during the bench.. Always holds the 4ghz or whatever multi I set it to.

 

Why not just try something higher like .160.

I was at .150 and it stable, I am trying .155 which seems stable. If I try .170 or higher, it freezes.

 

It could be a temperature issue if something other than the core is getting too hot. If you do not undervolt the CPU do you still have issues? -180 is a pretty hefty undervolt. Can you try setting static voltage instead, with no offset? Undervolting using an offset with adaptive voltage has seldom worked out well for me in the past with Skylake or Haswell.

 

Seems stable with no undervolt.. I guess my CPU is just a poor undervolt performer :/ -150 and less of an undervolt even at lower CPU clocks like 3.1, 3.2 seem to be the max I can do so far. I just kept backing off the undervolt by -10mv until the test kept going longer and longer.. Now i'm completing the default 15 minute benches of Realbench so far. It's not a huge deal, even at -150 is a dramatic change in lower temps over stock. I'll just have to learn to deal with it.

 

It is impossible that the opposite is true and you have a nicely binned CPU that requires less voltage. If that's the case and your CPU requires less voltage to run stock the high negative offset maybe too much less voltage compared to another CPU that draws more than appropriate voltage in Adaptive mode. I hope that makes sense.

 

I know this may sound stupid but did you check to make sure any of the power saving settings in the bios aren't causing an issue with the undervolt?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That is caused by CPU core parking. It's "normal" but not desirable if you prefer the best performance. This is a power saving garbage "feature" from the Redmond Mafia. W7 had the same thing, but W8 and W10 are worse (more aggressive) about parking cores to reduce power. It's ironic that it is reported in Windows Event logs if the behavior is intended, but I stopped trying to figure out what the idiots at Micro$loth were thinking a long time ago, LOL.

You can kill that crap permanently with this utility: http://www.coderbag.com/programming-c/disable-cpu-core-parking-utility I use this tool on all of my systems to stop the core parking. You can undo the changes with the tool as well, but I am pretty sure you won't want to undo once you kill it.

 

Is this basically the same as setting your min and max performance settings in power settings in Windows? I set the core parking to 100% so now i'm sitting at 4ghz.

 

It may show full speed, but I think it limits CPU utilization, keeping it from attaining 100% CPU usage, as in this example:


https://imgur.com/P0cuIwC
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo...roup-x-is-being-limited-by/m-p/3322886#M54318

I haven't run across this, but I have heard of it before, lots of returns from google for that error.

 

No it's not exactly the same... But there are some similarities. Setting the processor minimum to 100% in the Windows power profile does not stop Windows from parking cores.

 

@Diversion
Ah, that's why I don't see it

 

-150 mV is still a pretty decent undervolt. You were running ridiculously cold before, your CPU just wanted to get a little warmer Although it seems you've found the culprit, it still doesn't quite explain why turning on Max Fans appeared to increase stability.

I thought CPUs getting stuck "parked" was a relic from years ago. I was not aware it still happens

 

I'll never know why max fans allows for more undervolt... lol

 

Unfortunately, it still does. If you run that utility you will see that the cores are parked, and you can unpark them.

It makes perfect sense and here is why. The cooler a CPU (or GPU) is running, the less voltage it requires. So, with max fans if your CPU is running cooler you can undervolt more than if it is running warmer. This is why I do my extreme overclocked benching on AC cooling. Just because the thermals are not dangerously high does not mean you are achieving ideal efficiency. Without AC it would be running hotter, require more voltage, which in turn makes it hotter... vicious cycle of more heat needs more voltage, which makes more heat. It does not take more than a increase of 5-10°C to require a corresponding increase in core voltage. Sometimes it will still be functionally stable, as in not having a BSOD, but the benchmarks scores will decrease because the CPU and/or GPU is not running with maximum efficiency.

 

You guys are all lucky. Haven't gotten mine up and running yet.

 

The Redmond Morons, Intel and the graphics manufacturers try in the best possible way to cripple the performance from your hardware!! M$ with their OS!! Have not you seen all the talk about energy savings/energy efficiency? Newer hardware have different ways to reduce power draw from the wall. And the OS helping with this as well. Why do you think these weak low entry processors are here to stay? Everyone must save the earth. Every little bit helps. Even parking working cores, is the correct way to save the earth

 

I'm with you brother! As if the earth is being polluted by power consumption of electronic apliances...newer tecnology being supressed, planned obsolesence manufacturing, beefy 1% paychecks, banks...those are the real pollutants. Every tiny bit counts..forget the big ones..concentrate on the tiny ones..

Back on topic
Those fans are PWM controlled..strange that running them at full does stop the black screen. Probably the EC setting a different power level (based on the fact that full fans means higher power demand for the EC programming) and changing the 1070 voltage accordingly (not suddenly lowering the GPU voltage and making it crash). I'm just guessing here from your symptoms.

 

Is the parking still present if you disable C-states in BIOS?

Sent from mTalk

 

I have my on side lines waiting for a better wifi card. I went back to a heavy gaming laptop.

 

I played games for about 1.5 hours last night with no crashes at -150 so I guess we can put the case to rest for now.

 

Yes. I always disable c-states and if I don't unpark them they still show as parked. C-states is an Intel CPU hardware function and core parking is a Windows power reduction moron feature.

NICE!

 

Do memtest86 fails always indicate bad RAM? I'm just concerned that the new RAM I have coming today won't fix the problem. And if that's the case, I have no clue where to start troubleshooting next.

 

Did you only have 1 stick of memory in your new system? If you had 2 sticks, did you pull one and test each one individually? We need to start there first. If you only had 1 stick and it failed, then let me know what happens when you test the new stick coming in.

 

Try using TestMem 5 in Windows. http://testmem.tz.ru/testmem5.htm (download link "PUSH ... ... the current version: 0.10A" found at the bottom of the page is obsure)

TM5 works as well as Memtest86 and you don't have to boot from USB. It also does not take as long, but will quickly identify RAM problems. If your RAM is really bad it will start showing errors, then your machine may get a BSOD or shut down due to the memory errors.

Download here http://testmem.tz.ru/tm5.rar

 

Is it worth it to disable C states? I fiddled with the option and noticed without c states, you are permanently at max performance mode but obviously consuming way more power, even on idle.

 

I've got x2 8Gb sticks. I didn't bother to isolation test them. The 2 new sticks are coming today should I bother with checking the old ones? the test takes forever.

 

Remembered I have a big container of Gelid GC-Extreme paste. Should I repaste my unit? Looked up on TIM charts and the gc-extreme is ahead of IC diamond 7 by ~2C.

 

Got my replacement OEM GTX 1070 today from Eurocom. Installed and so far so good.

 

Now try .155v

Do you have a gpuz screen shot before old one and after new one.

 

I do on all of my systems. I like the CPU running full blast all of the time. I've been doing that for years on all of my computers. However, does not draw a ton of power at idle, or when there is no load, only the clock speeds stay fixed where I put them. Kind of like driving a stick shift instead of an automatic transmission. I don't have to worry about Turboboost because I'm turbo'd 24/7. My idle temps with 6700K running 4.7GHz are in the low to mid 40's C, so it doesn't really affect thermals either.

 

What is a good thermal paste for the CPU/GPU? Amazon link?

 

Don't settle for "good" paste. Accept only the best. It's too important to cut any corners with inferior products that won't cool well enough, won't last long enough, or both. I also recommend that you delid the 6700K for the best results possible.

CPU: https://www.amazon.com/Coollaboratory-Thermal-Compound-Processor-Heatsink/dp/B0039RY3MM
GPU: https://www.amazon.com/IC-Diamond-24-Carat-Compound/dp/B0042IBAOG

 

My choice for the easy peasy repaste: https://www.amazon.com/Thermal-Griz...=UTF8&qid=1479339531&sr=8-1&keywords=kryonaut

 

I've heard great things about Kryonaut, but some bad things too.

Some people report having trouble with it long term - not even that long term, like 10 days, temps start creeping up.

But, your reports show it's still running good, right?

 

Same temps since the original repaste for me after about a month+.. I really couldn't get the GPU to improve CLU vs Kryonaut.. So I think it's great.

 

I appear to be fine at -155 so far as well.. Re-running some long term tests at the moment at -155

 

On the topic of de-lidding.. I can't say that I got much if any of an improvement over just leaving it all stock.. I have CLU on the CPU die.. I feel like the issue is that the heatsinks at least in my system are pretty scored up and have a lot of pits. Liquid metal doesn't do well on this system .. I guess you could apply CLU to the underside of the heatsink and the GPU/CPU to get the most of it.. I've seen people doing it that way to make a better contact. If you spread liquid metal enough it starts to turn into paste from my experience and you can get it to smooth out any pits/rough surfaces. I really feel like I want to re-try with liquid metal everywhere again.. but I think i'll let @Mr. Fox do his system and report back on his findings.

 

I may. I have pictures of the GPU itself showing the slightly removed QUAL SAMPLE labeling on the GPU die and the pre Rev 1.0 label on the PCB.

Regardless GPUZ reported the card as a 1070, it was fully recognized as a 1070. My main concern and desire to get a full OEM card was that QS/ES samples are usually abused for testing purposes, they may be missing final fixes, won't be warrantied by MSI, and usually do not carry same resale value.

 

@Diversion

Running Memtest86 right now. got a single fail in the first pass now on the 3rd pass no additional fails. Is that 1 error bad if I can't repeat it? I find it hard to believe 2 sets of ram can be bad. I just want a fully functioning non-crashing system...