*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

when did this start happening? do you recall anything you did that caused it?

 

After reboot normally

 

Can you provide the link to the BBB rating. We all need proof of what you say.

Hope you know that skylake and kabylake are all known to overdraw voltage, so it not only a Eurocom or HID thing, it every single laptop with a skylake or kabylake processor.

I have experience with Eurocom, I still do business on a Eurocom M4 or w230ss (model) laptop. I sent it to them for faulty gpu, they got it on a Tuesday and it was out the door on Thursday. Total repair time was 1.5 weeks including transit. Repair time with Asus many years ago, 6 weeks and I see they haven't changed.

Eurocom isnt that bad, sure they are kinda slow on email responds, it really depends, I have sent them message at 7pm at night and they responded within 10min. Other times it took 3 days, its why the best thing to do is call them.

 

I was curious, so I looked... https://www.bbb.org/ottawa/business...turers/eurocom-corporation-in-nepean-on-14649

 

Guy's,
Do you thing this is the same kb? http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Clavier-Fran...848867?hash=item2a71619c63:g:mB8AAOSwNRdX5T8q

Does anybody already remove it? How easy was it?

 

@Mr. Fox has a disassembly in his review thread, might have the info you want. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.

 

HIDevolution has a BBB rating of B- due to two complaints. Statistically, two complaints isn't even significant, so basically I interpret this as "BBB doesn't have enough data for a statistically valid rating." I'm not faulting the BBB -- they can't publish data they haven't received. But you have to pay attention to the raw numbers and not just the letter grade. One problem with business ratings is that customers who are happy don't write to places like the BBB to say so -- they just use what they bought.

My employer has been in business for over 15 years, and we do almost no advertising because we have satisfied customers keeping us busy with repeat business and referrals. We don't even show up in the BBB database at all, accredited or otherwise.

And to top them all: A company from which I bought a laptop, had to RMA it because it was defective, has 83 complaints on file with the BBB, and 9 positive reviews. The BBB turns those numbers into a rating of A+. I have no idea how you get from 78% negative experience to an A+ rating.

 

But I do

HIDevolution - The Best Company I ever dealt with

 

I have a full time business ebay for the past 7 years, I'm not accredited with the BBB, but I do have a business license with the state that I live in. All business' dont need to accredited,

 

why will u need modded inf for the driver to work? it works perfectly fine for me from nvidia official website.

 

EUROCOM SHOULD COVER SHIPPING BACK as the machine is broken from factory



if they don't want to cover shipping back you should do a BBB complaint following a chargeback threat

 

TBH, I had never even heard of these guys before December. But in my pre-purchase research, I kept coming across this name, again and again, with positive experiences every time. That convinced me I needed to check them out.

I don't have my machine yet, but what I can say is that even before I ordered, they were willing to spend -- literally -- almost 3 hours in total with me across several phone calls, plus a number of email exchanges, all to help me narrow my options to meet my atypical specs. They took the time to understand my requirements, then proactively contacted me about a machine I had ever even considered before, which was an almost perfect match to my spec. As a CompE with 30+ years IT experience, I'm pretty cynical about "sales engineers" who don't know what they are talking about. These folks do. It's not every day I can talk with a {ahem} "computer salesman" about DRAM row address strobes and column address strobes, and the slew rate and damping on pulse waveforms.

It doesn't matter to me if a company can impress the BBB. It matters if they can impress me, and impress other technical people whose opinions I respect.

 

I went with Eurocom because, I was able to price this laptop for a total of $1320 shipped, without RAM, HD, OS, 10% student discount, and crappy realtek wifi. I installed my own better intel wifi card. The laptop from HID is a killer laptop but it was over my budget and I dont need a 1080 when a 1070 is good enough for many years.

Today, this laptop has 32gb of RAM, 3.5tb of storage, all SSD, and a 7700k. Its a business and gaming laptop into one. It'll go on this year's business tax write off.

 

You havent had any problems ?

Enviado desde mi SM-G930F mediante Tapatalk

 

That's weird. I've used DDU in safe mode...twice. I'm going to take a manual look into the registry. What's strange is that the original VGA Eurocom drivers install perfectly all the time.

 

Just an update, @woodzstack is in the progress of taking care of my issue. He is doing a good job on it I believe. Will update more.

From the interactions I had with him, I believe he is a good person.

 

Your hardware ID is not present in the INF file for MSI laptops with 7700K CPU installed. Grab the @j95 mod and it will work perfectly. He uses desktop drivers and the nv_disp.inf file for desktops and adds the notebook GPU HWID so it works regardless of what laptop brand you have. You'll have to continue using modded drivers until NVIDIA catches up, but the @j95 mods are always better than stock anyhow. Boot with DSE disabled since it is a driver mod.

 

I was looking into TI but it doesn't let me download the INF file. So I was going to get my hardware ID and manually inject it into the INF file when I have some spare time.

 

Didn't Nvidia fix this? I can already install standard driver versions on my P870DM3. Or is it the fact that it's the MSI variant HWID and Nvidia thinks that all such machines have BGA CPUs?

 

Wouldn't it be smarter to just send it in for warranty repair...you don't lose your taxes that way.

 

No, hopefully he goes with a certain company that starts with an H...........

 

The latter is likely the case. I normally configure my own INF but I was hoping I could find one premade.

 

How are they better ? Aren't they the same driver anyways ? Just curious, whats better about them, whats different ( I genuinely am curious and wish to know, and was under the assumption : Nothing ) ?
Curious question, hope you don't mind me asking, but on TechInferno you and J95 said something along the lines that you guys were related, is that true ? He's your nephew or something, you said, in a post somewhere there, are you guys the owners of TechInferno (Just always wanted to know)?

 

The only problems I had where from windows 10 pro and the Nvidia drivers or maybe g-sync. I downgraded down to win 8.1 pro and the crashes are no more.

 

LOL... thanks for asking. I would have been happy to clear things up had I known you were curious.

@j95 and I have an inside joke where I am Uncle Fox and he is Nephew J. We are not related by blood. We are good friends and that's often better than family in some circumstances.

His driver mods eliminate a crap ton of registry filth and other crud that doesn't need to be there. If you read his instructions, you are deleting a massive part of the package that consists of worthless bloatware and telemetry filth. For similar reasons, my modded version of Windows 10 is better than what Micro$loth offers, Nephew @j95 driver mods are better than what NVIDIA offers. It is "Pure Protein" with half the calories and no cancer-producing additives.

As far as owning Tech|Inferno, that's a big 10-4 negative. I have no personal interest in Tech|Inferno, NBR, HWBOT, Overclock.net or any of the tech-centric social media outlets that I visit and/or contribute.

 

Awesome thanks for the reply, that cleared up the unknowns, and put to rest some questions.

What exactly is in the NViida drivers that was removed, is it just telemetry or something that connects with say windows 10 to do that, is there any known article on this itself ?

I also hear your doing a review of the F5, care to link what you have so far , or discuss it ?

 

Wait a sec... As a Linux guy by background, I'm going to ask, "can someone please explain what that's all about?"

I'm not trying to be argumentative with @Mr. Fox or anyone, I'm genuinely confused. Why does a GPU driver know or care what kind of CPU you have?

In Linux, if you have hardware XYZ on your system, you load the kernel module or userspace daemon for hardware XYZ. Period. Most of the time you don't even have to reboot.

On my Windows gaming tower, I bought the graphics card from one company and the motherboard from another -- no complaints from drivers. So I'm totally confused what's going on here, but I fear I'll need to understand this Windows arcana before I get my new system.

 

His review has its own thread, located in the MSI Reviews & Lounges section, the same area as this forum thread.

 

Hey guys,

I've been following this thread since its early days and something makes me curious.

On this pic of the GT62VR from notebookcheck the Intel PCH is visible, next to the M.2 drive

http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/MSI/GT62VR-6RE16H21/gt62h.jpg

Where would that be on the Tornado F5? In all pics and videos I've watched there ain't any trace of it
And further more woundn't it get hot without a heatsink of some kind?

 

Ah thank you. So many replies and so used to reading the same threads over and over, I forget to gander some of the others.

@syscrusher I don't personally understand why or how half this stuff is the way it is either, lol.
The INF file looks for your vendors hardware ID and laptop hardware ID when the driver is clicked for installation, if it doesn't find your graphics card under those sections, it says no supported hardware found.

In an exmaple :


17D8 here would be 980Ti FTW I have from EVGA, and the subsys 4996 would be the motherboard I assume, being a X99FTW, and the 3842 part would be EVGA itself.

Like for a DELL 980M we get 13D7 for the card, and xxxx1028, where XXXX would be the laptop in whatever mode it is in. I've noticed when say a laptop is in UEFI and dedicated mode, or in AUTO or SG modes for the graphics with legacy boot, it seems to have a different ID in the videocard hardware details.

What people essentially do is just add these ID's where they would make the driver think your A-OK to install.

In this F5, it could be it's not setup for earlier graphics card by omission or something. one of the first bioses wouldn't support Maxwel, though the recent ones should without problem. I assume the hardware itself does something like this stuff with the INF file...clearly not my area of expertise.

I might be making some mistakes in this explanation, anyone with more precise knowledge is encouraged to correct me and my liberties to explain what I understand.

 

You delete all but 5 folders in the driver package for the @j95 mod. NVIDIA SMI control junk, GeFarts Experience, some back-end and telemetry crap... in total, just a whole bunch of stuff that is not essential for full performance and configuration is eliminated. On an SLI machine, SLI is enabled by default using his mods and unlike notebook drivers, you can enable/disable SLI without a reboot just like a desktop.

Here is a link to the review: EUROCOM Tornado F5 Mini-MonsterBook Review Thread

Will be doing a review on the 780W AC adapter as well.

@woodzstack explained it pretty well. In a more generic sense, Windows needs hardware ID information to add things to the registry, etc. Linux probably uses a hardware ID in some cases, but may be smart enough to figure some of it out without .INF files to guide the way. Linux does not do a great job with video drivers, especially not in a multi-GPU environment. I am a Linux fan, but don't use it much because the things I enjoy most are not fully supported by any OSes except Windows. If not for my interests in overclocked benching, and to a somewhat lesser extent, gaming, I would have ditched Windows for Linux quite some time ago. The options in both of those spaces are severely limited due to lack of support among software developers.

Notebook drivers differ greatly from desktop drivers in terms of the installation routine. The actual driver files (the *.sys and *.dll files, etc.) are generally the same between notebook and desktop. In a notebook driver package an INF file is present for each manufacturer (probably to keep file size down instead of using on gigantic INF file). OEMs convey information to NVIDIA and AMD about parameters and what to add to the registry, what kind of artificial power limits to impose based on the OEM's specs, etc. Desktops drivers, on the other hand, do not care what the brand is. It only uses the part of the hardware ID that identifies the GPU and using a desktop driver mod you add the notebook GPU ID and a section under strings that gives a name to that hardware ID so it displays correctly in Device Manager. Much of the registry crap that is not necessary is omitted and it is sort of a barebones driver installation.

 

Thank you for your time in explaining all this, many people want to hear it or read it from you specifically, not just me. I look forward to seeing the 780W AC adapter. Not sure why we need it. My 5820K and a 980Ti Desktop only use like 180W most of the time, and goes up to 400W when in load. I have a 1600T2 though, so I clearly have power to spare.

 

We are located in the Netherlands and are willing to help you. Please contact us if you are interested.

 

Ok , tell me please.

 

Ah, so it's nannyware built into the design. Thanks for the explanation. In Linux, if you try to load a kernel module that can't detect the hardware it's supposed to operate, it just unloads itself and returns an error code to the calling program to indicate status. No harm, no foul. Sounds like, in general, Linux drivers are more focused on the device they are supposed to control, and not what system that device is installed into.

 

Generally, it pulls the vendor and product IDs from the bus controller and looks those up in a table. If the driver detects that it knows what to do with the device, it does so. Otherwise, it exits.

Sounds like part of the difference is that bloody registry situation. Not one of Microsoft's better ideas, IMO.

I totally understand -- I'm in the same boat, having to boot Windows when my new system arrives and run Linux in a VM, because some of my 3D tools require DX11.

Linux IMO does fine with drivers, but the vendors don't release specs for the open source community to fully exploit the hardware. Linux also has some legacy cruft to deal with because of X11, which was an awesome standard in the 1990s when people used graphics terminals. Project Wayland fixes a lot of this, but hasn't yet become mainstream.

Thanks for explaining. The freedom-loving "I own my computer, I accept responsibility" part of me chafes badly at this sort of artificial constraint, but I partially understand that vendors feel they have to do this in an o.s. targeted at technophobes.

The explanations are much appreciated, from all. You've cleared up my confusion. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Well you know how it is, the big guys always crush the small fries.

 

Wow trying to create a windows 7 USB installation disk on windows 10 is complicated, also the fact that there's no USB 2 hubs on this thing made me have to copy some USB 3 drivers files to the USB as well. So much work man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Alright so windows 7 is installed after quite some hassle. I have to say that it is much better looking to me with the aero theme and no ads popping up every second. Simplistic and clean


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Remember to disable Window Sidebar Widgets or you could be in a nasty surprise!

 

Come on it's always fun playing "Who's controlling my computer now" Heck we could possibly make a "Which country is controlling it now"

 

Awesome. Yeah, no doubt... nothing beats Windows 7 as far as I am concerned. I'll be using it probably long after the support for it ends. Micro$loth support is unnecessary and worthless to me anyway. It hasn't mattered to me for a long time. Congrats. I will be dual booting W7 and W10 on my Tornado F5 as well.

@Rage Set - why don't you like Sidebar Gadgets? Before I switched to my AIDA64 sensor panel I used them all the time. I had a nice HWiNF64 sidebar gadget that I would still be using if not for AIDA64 (had much of the same detail).

 

Microsoft in all of their wisdom made the Sidebar Widgets/Gadgets a dangerous playground. Malicious gadgets can execute nasty code and take over your machine (I have personally seen it over 20 times). Microsoft wants everyone to disable it (of course they didn't want to, you know, secure it). There are a lot of known malware that target the Gadgets. Use at your own risk.

Read More Here

http://www.techspot.com/news/49351-...vista-7-users-to-disable-desktop-gadgets.html

 

Yes, I read that a long time ago when they first announced the vulnerability and discontinued support for it. Thanks for the link though. Some folks may not be aware of that possibility.

I'm one of the people that hasn't used any antivirus software for several years now. Other than testing some things for Brother @Phoenix a few times, I think I have had antivirus/security software installed no more than about an aggregate of 10 months over the past 48 months.

 

It seems me and @cavell219 have some things in common...lol. I use to write gadgets to make friends, family and employees lives miserable and it seems he did the same, hahaha.

 

This is WITHOUT my ice cold garage assist! I'm trying to get to 20K before @Mr. Fox kills my machine and its chances.

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11562468

Compare the top 4

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/11399287/fs/11416783/fs/11562468/fs/11537407

 

Nice job. I'm still tinkering with hardware right now. I probably won't try to beat is for a while longer.

I am moving hardware around now that I get to keep the Tornado F5. Pulling drives out of El Cazador for the F5, etc. I may sell that little monster. Not sure yet. It has been a great machine, but I don't need four laptops in my office. Tornado F5 makes El Cazador obsolete by ever measure now, but it's like a member of the family. I think it has the best GTX 980M in the world with its hard mods. I haven't seen an example of a more powerful single-GPU 980M powered laptop anywhere.

 

Haha yeah it was fun times watching the IT guy try to figure out what was going on... Good times....

Sooo CLOSE to 20k

 

I'd keep it bro. It's like a championship horse, retire it and keep it in your stable. Unless someone really wants it to actually use. I'm thinking the same about the P870DM-G, the majority of people who do want it, want to part it out or resell it for more money. No one wants to take it and use it as intended.

 

This is what my 980M /6820HK gets:

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/17686211

Man I need my Tornado to get here...lol