*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Is it worth getting the 7700k over the 7700 if I am not overclocking? (just turbo boost up to 4.5GHZ)

 

I am not involved in whatever Eurocom is doing in regards to the firmware of this model.

 

I think most people in here knew that, but were just hopeful. And comparing differences between yours and Svet's BIOS.

 

Thanks sherlock!

 

OK, I am seeing all of the silly back and forth going on here and scratching my head. There are too many assumptions being made about too many things.

The unlocked BIOS available at this time cannot be distributed to end users directly. Doing so is a violation of the terms under which they received it. The agreement provides that it is only authorized for application by Eurocom at a Eurocom facility by Eurocom staff. Kapish? So, they cannot email the files to anyone for them to do it. It does not have remote flash tools available. For machines that are already in use by end users, receiving Eurocom's unlocked BIOS requires shipping the machine back to Eurocom to have them do the flashing. This represents a cost for the owner of the machine, and it represents a use of their company resources (time and staff).

So, like it or not, this is how it goes. It does not affect new purchases in the same way because those machines can be flashed before they are shipped.

I don't think anyone here can bear to look in the mirror and expect Eurocom to disregard the terms of their agreement with the author of an unlocked system BIOS. There are many dishonest people out there that have zero regard for the talent of BIOS modders, who have no problem with stealing and unauthorized distribution. Hopefully, nobody here falls into that category. If anyone does, I think I speak for many in saying they are not welcome in this community and personally, I'd like to see them shunned everywhere. They are a despicable lot.

Here's the deal. If you don't like what is being offered, just stop being silly and go visit Svet, purchase his BIOS, pay him for his time and talent, and be happy. Please do not share BIOS mods with others. That applies to all BIOS/vBIOS mods, whether done by Prema or Svet. You receive the files conditionally with that provision as one of the conditions. If you share them, then you're not an honorable person. You are violating the terms of your agreement with Svet, and you deserve whatever misfortune befalls you. If you have any problems with the machine after flashing, don't expect to get it fixed for free by Eurocom, since you did not get it from them. That doesn't mean your warranty is voided, it only means the stuff you break is not covered under warranty. But, this is normal... enthusiasts (the real ones) take responsibility for their own actions and do not expect someone else to pay for them.

What does this mean? If this is a sarcastic expression of disrespect toward a man that deserves love, kindness and respect from all of us, please don't do that any more. It's not funny or cool. Brother @Prema is a personal friend to me and a hero to many. Prema is almost single-handedly responsible for laptops maintaining a position of relevance among enthusiasts. If not for his firmware mods, I would not own ANY high performance laptop. I would be back on desktops and using sub-$500 disposable Wal-Mart turdbooks and $50 Amazon Kindle Fire tablets for portable computing. He makes everything good and amazing possible and deserves nothing but kindness and respect.

If it means something else, then I apologize for my reaction.

 

double-post

 

Nope! I didn't mean disrespect in any way, knowing Prema for so long. I just assumed anyone following this thread knowns Prema is not affiliated with the 16L3 bios!

I apologize as well if it looked like I disrespect a great character.

 

Haven't Eurocom thought about setting a section in their website, inviting owners to enter their serial numbers and *hence* access the unlocked bios with detailed instructions?

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

 

OK, sorry then. I did not understand what you meant. I'm glad I asked. Thank you for clarifying.

 

I never knew that Prema isn't the one making the custom BIOS for the 16L3. If not Prema or Svet, when is it? Is it made inhouse by Eurocom?

 

I believe so. Svet only develops the unlocked BIOS for the sake of helping MSi forumers (and of course receiving donations, since he does an amazing job).. Though I have no idea who specifically distributes (or makes) BIOS files for 16L3 barebones. It could be a team in Eurocom or MSi themselves (but not Svet).

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Again, too many assumptions here. @Prema mentioned the BIOS mod available for application by Eurocom now is not his work. Where the BIOS mod came from is really not anyone else's business.

What is relevant is (A) the current mod cannot be remote flashed due to firmware signature cancer filth, (something many of us wish did not exist,) and (B) distributing the BIOS mod for flashing by end users is not allowed under the terms of the agreement with the BIOS mod author. This protects the author from having is work stolen and given away as shareware or reverse-engineered by people that want to steal credit for it and profit from their evil deeds.

It also protects Eurocom from idiots bricking their machines and expecting free repairs after a failed attempt at flashing a BIOS mod given to them by Eurocom. That may sound harsh, but idiots are real and even smart people can make mistakes. It's not a simple flash procedure. Having used it myself, I can tell you that bricking is possible for people that have difficulty following a somewhat lengthy set of instructions, including hex editing, and multiple stages from start to finish (another unfortunate symptom of the firmware signature filth that plagues the world we live in).

 

Interesting. I had thought that Eurocom had paid MSI to add the overclocking options to the bios, similar to how the GT73VR ships from MSI. If this one is also a mod, then flashing it would be much more complicated.

The shipping cost isn't a big deal (Eurocom does pay to get it back to you AFAIK) but it is tough being without a laptop for a couple weeks if its your only machine...

 

If everything was right in the world, unlocked BIOS mods would not be required and there would be no blocking of firmware mod flashing. (This is the root of all evil today from an enthusiast's perspective.) Everything would provide full functionality and full performance from the factory. Unfortunately, there is no laptop available anywhere that does and firmware mods are a basic necessity for enthusiasts. Without them, there is nothing to be enthusiastic about. The crippling is more severe on some models compared to others, but all are castrated by ODMs.

I believe Eurocom is hoping to have MSI unlock overclocking features for the CPU and RAM, but I doubt MSI would ever agree to a proper unlock of all configuration features contained in the BIOS. I doubt the GT73VR has everything unlocked... probably only the bare minimum required for some modest overclocking.

In my opinion, high-end performance notebook UEFI firmware should contain all of the features one would expect to find in the expensive desktop enthusiast motherboards like the Rampage, Maximus, Fatal1ty, Krait and Gaming Edition motherboards. It is absolutely absurd that they do not.

 

I'm sorry if it's supposed to be kept secret but I heard from Eurocom that it's Svet bios with optimization proposed by your self?

 

Exactly; and this is why people want to know where its from. Heck I don't even own one and i want to know

It is relevant in its irreverence. Human nature

Side question
Been watching the Tornado and 16L-G for a while. been waiting for a 120hz G-Synk IPS. My question will there be one? Only been seeing 120hz non-Gsync TN's

I had given up my AW 17 ranger because it was too heavy for what I needed. This thing is like 3.5 lbs lighter and 1/2 inch less thick while way more power. I don't think anything beats its power to weight ratio

 

If this is the case, I'll ship mine off next week. I'd be one of the "idiots" who turned it into a brick!

Going to suck being with out it though.

 

From Eurocom Sales:

This is Eurocom designed BIOS with Eurocom Tornado F5 logo. We are actually working on unlocked BIOS to be provided with each future Tornado series model. This would probably increase slightly cost ‎as we have to pay extra for BIOS development and stability testing above standard spec, and then provide longterm support. So this is not that simple as it looks.

And... (from Garry):

Here are some of the features:

• ‎user ability to overclock or underclock the CPU to meet their individual needs and preferences
• ‎user control over CPU power settings (voltage, watts, amps) for optimal performance and/or thermal efficiency
• ‎ability to control non-turbo CPU core ratio
• ‎ability to control CPU c-states and p-states
• ‎ability to control BCLK (northbridge) and FCLK (system Agent) frequency
• ‎ability to control Intel Speed Shift Technology functionality
• ‎ability to control Intel Software Guard Extensions (SGX) functionality
• ‎ability to control RSR, Watchdog Timer, ASPM, ACPI sleep and hibernation functionality
• ‎ability to control RAM timings, clock speeds and enables the utilization of XMP profiles
• ‎ability to control selection of Legacy, UEFI and CSM to install whatever operating system desired
• ‎ability to control CPU-based DEP, AES (encryption) and Virtualization
• ‎ability to control GPU scaling, PCIe speed and power management features
• ‎control over Thunderbolt and USB 3.1 configuration
• control over SATA port configuration and Intel LPM. Having the ability to disable drive ports allows exclusive control over what drive receives the boot sector, system and recovery partitions during Windows Setup and eliminates the need to physically remove non-OS drives when installing a new OS.

@Mr. Fox Anything missing compared to a BIOS from Svet?

 

Apparently HIDevolution if working with @Prema, their 16L13 is advertised as such. Honestly I'd just take the stock BIOS I just want quiet fans which delidding helps with. I don't really care about overclocking.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

It just sounds like Eurocom has a copy of APTIO V BIOS tools TBH.

 

This is pretty much same list Mr.Fox posted here a few days ago

 

I DEFINITELY understand that Mr. Fox. I'm embarrassed to admit it but I would be one of those "idiots" that bricked their machine. @Mr. Fox and @Prema both took me by the hand at one point and attempted to help me with a simple driver update and I managed to mess that up. Thank GOD Kevin at Eurocom flashed my X9E2 Prema Bios. If you want the Bios, send it back to Eurocom, make arrangements to be without your computer for a few days. It'll be worth it.

 

So I finally got yesterday my little machine My first non BGA ! (I mean for me)
Config is 1070/i5-7600k/ 2x8 GB/MX300 M.2
I run some test at stock: http://imgur.com/a/SI6YZ (power plan high perf)
First Firestrike run was really at stock, seconf one I applied @keftih recommandation
Gsync ON (fullscreen mode) (edit: off)
Vsync ON (edit: off)
Maximum pre-rendered frames: 2
Despite my old age I am a newbie for all that kind of stuff. I've read all the thread, given a look to @unclewebb famous TS thread and more.

What do you think about temp and score? Should I need a repaste? Should I need to undevolt or something (never use TS or XTU)?

As I plan to change the keyboard tomorrow, I also look to all videos of @Mr. Fox , but it's not clear to me if I can remove the MB without removing heatsinks? If needed my first question is already outdated...

In all case a big thanks to all of you who provide all this usefull information!
And thanks to @Papusan who suggets me (in an other post) the test suite, to @Phoenix who help me to choose a laptop with a keayboard and for this http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/phoenix-software-updates.794490/

Eager to learn and make this thing a really good thing!

PS: keyboard change is needed because it's impossible to find it with a AZERTY keayboard but possible to find steelseries MSI GT62 AZERTY keyboard on eBay (I will use this laptop also to work and I type a lot)

 

Just to be clear, those settings are for Battlefield 1, and aren't really meant to be used for the global settings

I would recommend custom profiles for each different game. For example, I actually prefer playing Doom with Gsync Off and Vsync off.

 

Those setting rise my firestroke score by 4000 points... But thanks for the precision (as said not really expert at this time ) and you got 17000ish in global settings. Wonder what are they?
Mixed copy/paste, this one from you:
Make sure G-SYNC and V-SYNC is OFF when running benchmarks, otherwise you will be capped to 60 FPS
Make sure NVIDIA ShadowPlay is OFF
Make sure game DVR in the Xbox App (if you're using Windows 10) is OFF
Make sure in the NVIDIA control panel, "Power management mode" is set to "Adaptive"
but with power to high

 

You got a Tornado or EVOC?

 

Fangbook. Couldn't resist to the discount...

 

Can anyone link me to a thermal pad that would be appropriate to put in place of damaged ones found on CPU/GPU heatsinks?

 

Well, for those that might not have any experience overclocking, perhaps this attachment will be useful in getting started. I will be uploading a new ThrottleStop video later this weekend, featuring my four overclock profile settings on the Tornado F5. I am very grateful for the continued support by @unclewebb and his amazing ThrottleStop utility. I will also upload a video comparing the crippled stock BIOS to one of the unlocked versions available for the Tornado F5. (I am using @Prema BIOS, but I will unload a video of the BIOS that is currently available.)

A word of caution to those who get their generic BIOS from Svet rather than the one optimized for Eurocom... just because there is a menu item available DOES NOT mean you should use it. We hid the seriously dangerous options as well as those that serve no valid purpose. If you are not sure what it does, please leave it alone. If it relates to Intel Graphics, Switchable Graphics, or PEG settings, DO NOT touch those settings if you want your machine to continue to be functional. If you change the wrong thing it will be bricked as soon as you save and exit the BIOS. If you get the unlocked BIOS from Eurocom, there are no dangerous settings of this nature in the menus available for customized settings.

A second word of caution to anyone that plans to use XMP profiles or tinker with custom memory timings. You cannot clear NVRAM without removing the motherboard, unless you do a mod like I did with a CMOS battery extension cable. Applying faulty or incompatible memory settings is the primary reason for computer to become unbootable. This is not dangerous, but correcting it is extremely inconvenient due to the idiotic location of the CMOS battery. Do not screw with your memory settings unless you are prepared to pull the motherboard to disconnect the CMOS battery in order the clear NVRAM. Sometimes the EC reset switch will reset RAM settings, sometimes it won't. It almost always DOES NOT for me. (Which is, of course, the reason the mod is so valuable.)

Spoiler: Mr. Fox's EUROCOM Tornado F5 Quick Guide

This can also come in handy: Common BSOD Error Code List for Overclocking

Above settings... using "auto" fans sitting on my lap.

 

What speed of RAM did you order? That was what was delaying my machine, and I negotiated with HIDevolution to change my RAM spec. My machine is due to arrive Tuesday.

 

@Mr. Fox Does the Unlocked BIOS from Eurocom have all options you think should be in a BIOS? Does the Eurocom PDF from above (which you posted) refer to options found in the Unlocked BIOS from Eurocom? Are the recommended options in your PDF for both the 6700K and 7700K? If not, how do they change for the 6700K?

And...
Can anyone link me to a thermal pad that would be appropriate to put in place of damaged ones found on CPU/GPU heatsinks?

 

This is mostly, but not universally, true in my experience. Especially in servers, some manufactures insist on dinging you a few extra dollars/euros for a BIOS upgrade.

 

See above

Edit: @mikethebos - This can also come in handy: Common BSOD Error Code List for Overclocking

 

Just run of the mill 2400mhz RAM. Congratulations on yours! Mine is in production at HID.

 

One of the best things about this forum is that when disagreements or misunderstandings happen (as they will), people apologize to each other, gracefully accept the apology of others, and move on. Kudos to all parties for handling this with grace and courtesy.

 

Brother @Phoenix can you please send me a private message?

 

I just ordered these thermal pads, but I won't know how they perform until the arrive:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=2S7-009N-00010

 

@Mr. Fox How would those linked by @keftih work on the heatsinks?

 

Se also Thermal Paste - (Pads) Roundup

 

Should work fine. Just check to see what thickness you need before ordering.

Lots of thermal pads. Some are better than others. Always good to have a resource to investigate.

 

I will go ahead and leave this right here...

 

Added second new video to the previous post...

 

Thank you!

 

Stock bios YUCK!!

Unlocked Bios *Demon Smile*

 

you got it bro

 

Fangwho ????

 

It's CyberPowerPC's version of the Tornado. Same Chasis and everything just different reseller. I have purchased 3 or 4 fangbooks now because the prices with certain sales they have can be unbeatable. Their after purchase support for me has always been good. But others have had some bad experiences, or so they have said. I know the one person in this thread wants new fans and Cyberpower will not send them.

 

The machine itself is quite impressive, as the build quality seems much better than the Clevo. Locking the clocks to 4.2Ghz and a - 145mV undervolt has the CPU running cooler than on my briefly owned P775DM3-G too (and for £1000 less).
It needed a complete clean and repaste (Kryonaut), all of the thermal pads replaced on the GPU, the heatsinks refitted properly and a couple of extra screws installed. This resulted in a 6C drop in idle temperatures. The BIOS is worse than Clevo though!

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

That would be me. I got a new set of fans (that I had to pay for myself + shipping) and first impressions is that the noise issue is much better.

I got my Fangbook from Cyberpower UK - there's also a US based Cyberpower, so it might be a good idea to specify which one we've done business with when we mention them

 

I forgot to mention the ghastly silver CyberpowerPC sticker which they had put on the lid wonky. That came off by picking at each letter with my finger nails and cleaning off the remaining adhesive with some isopropyl and a lens wipe.

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