The Official MSI GT73VR Owners and Discussions Lounge

cores 1 and 3 are 10c hotter than cores 2 and 4? already?
That can't happen this quickly?

Yes as I explained, you lap the side of the heatsink with the -cooler- cores to make all the heatsink balance properly on the chip.

 

Yes Lap means sand, I use 2000 Grit only....in my opinion it's best grit to use, it won't shave off too much copper so less chances that you can destroy the HS by wrong sanding.

I will run a test again tomorrow and post the result, we both use different pastes, @Falkentyne is not big fan of Grizzly Kryo but I found it is one of the best non conductive paste with highest mk/w I think around 13 mk/w which no other thermal paste offers.

 

The undervolt should only be a few clicks in XTU + power shell startup script if you are on Windows 10, or a few clicks in TS.

At load with stock paste -100mV undervolt is pretty consistently dropping temps 10c. So there's still more cooling available to you when you get around to it.

I'm happy for you that it's at a good point now, and thank you for posting updates here, please continue to keep us updated.

 

@Shehary I have TWO 5g tubes of Grizzly Kryonaut. So not like I didn't try it. And w/mk values can be misleading. Look at the difference between Conductonaut and Liquid Ultra. Completely hogwash ratings.

I'm not a big fan of it because temps started out really good, then degraded, with core #1 and #3 slowly getting hotter than core #2 and #4 because of uneven pressure with too little pressure on core 1 and 3, combined with small surface direct die contact to the CPU=leads to quick pumpout and dryout because of thermal stress. On desktops, this takes MUCH longer to happen because the heat is spread across the entire IHS surface rather than in a concenterated area and you have much higher static pressure also.

So I switched to Conductonaut, which helped a lot but I still had annoying core temp differences in prime95 non AVX testing (i use prime for heatsink testing because I'm weird).
I realized that WITHOUT AVX or FMA3 in prime95, i should have perfectly balanced core temps and i was still getting 3-6c core temp differences depending on overclock.
And this matters when you're overclocking because if a core gets too hot, you will get WHEA correctable errors. Or BSOD.

I tried sanding the metal posts (yes i was able to eventually sand a tiny bit) but i found out these actually never even touched the mainboard (SORRY!).
So I worked on the heatsink. used a little 400 grit on the side that was too "cold" (too much pressure) but not much; i found actually that this low grit didn't even do very much anyway.

So I switched to 2000 grit, first attempt got all cores equal but core 1 was getting hotter than the others by like 2C. I didnt like this.
Seeing 75/73/73/73 is just wrong. or 89/87/87/87 at 4.7 ghz.

So i worked again and now got everything down to 0C-1C difference and I'm happy. And this is with liquid metal.
No degradation over high stress (4.7 ghz 1.270v or 4.5 ghz 1.175v, prime95 small FFT, without AVX) testing over several days. It's stable.

@Ivan994 what exactly did you get 10c core temp differences in? Was it prime again? If it was AIDA64 you can ignore that. AVX loads will always give temp differentials. Impossible to avoid.
Picture example:

Hotter top cores on 0 and 2? (some programs label this as 1 and 3, some as 0 and 2).
Then you lap side of heatsink with the cooler cores (bottom) first (keep in mind orientation of HS when removed), then after lapping bottom first, then give entire HS an even clean polish.

When you're finished, the copper should have a nice really bright orange shine to it, instead of looking "Dirty" like in the picture. Doesn't have to be mirror like you see in some of those professional overclocking modding videos and pics. Just better than shown.






tl;dr:
2000+ Grit sandpaper: do the bottom (COOLER CORES) until bottom is shiny.
Then do the ENTIRE heatsink evenly until top is shiny even though bottom is already shiny, do the entire HS with even full strokes.

 

my one is up to 14c difference in cine at the moment but other cores are at 61c on max fans on 4.2ghz ac dc loadline 5 max voltage 1.195. (score 923)
when i order new heatsink im gonna sand the old one and ill try record video how ive done it if succesfull
step by step from @Falkentyne suggestions

 

Mind you... Gelid Extreme have a lot lower thermal conductivity numbers [W/(m*k)] 8.5. You can't say Grizzly Kryonaut's higher 12.5 W/m*k will give you +47% better thermal conductivity. Same also for ICD who have a lot lower value 4.5 W/m*k (Aka 270% lower thermal conductivity numbers vs Kryonaut). FYI. Phobya NanoGrease Extreme have 16 W/m*k. Grizzly Kryonaut ain't a good option if your heatsink have uneven finish.

Second this.

 

I think part of the problem is that these pastes were not designed for direct die contact. It's why Intel uses that pigeon poop (more like putty or IC7 than normal paste) on the inside of their IHS. Because it lasts for years and can handle such high temps. Normal pastes have trouble with such high temps on direct die contact because of the small surface. Some people tried pastes like Kryonaut on delidded CPU and then reattach the heatsink, and while it was better -at first- than the Intel goop, it didn't last very long. Lasted much longer on top of IHS attached to the heatsink, because the heat is now spread out, makes imperfections on the heatsink surface less important now.

On direct die contact, any imperfection will cause bad core temp differentials because of the tiny surface. And the core are not spread out all around the die, either. the four cores are actually close to the middle! Around the edges are the system agent and Ring and GPU and some other stuff.

 

I think I cannot undervolt any more, anything above -30 @4.1 or -65 @ 4.0 rebooting the laptop.

or may be now I m too old for this....

 

ive tried to put my cpu on 4.6 stock voltage ive got to cine but error then so test not completed but ive seen temps risin to 89 where other 2 were only at 70c! which i think is really good on 4.6 ghz stock voltage .but yet again test wasnt completed so aybe there still would be few degrees up and i couldnt get a score so it wasnt stable but still... if ill be able to fix this core difference i will use phobya nanogrease again as i thinks its very solid thermal paste just need to work around it to make it as best as possible as @Falkentyne s chip right now lol..

 

GENOCID =

Soon your taptop will turn into this:

 

sry i was on -50mv i wanted to say that i think phobya is very solid compound and most benefits are seen on higher overclocks because every time i repasted two cores were very good temps on oc except that 15c difference in cores. hopefully when new heatsink comes and ill be able to correctly sand off old hs if required to show how good temps will be with this paste and if they last longer and not gonna degrade because i dont want go LM as the last option

edit:
look here at temp difference btw notice core 1 or core 0 in hwinfo is now hotest insetad of core 2 (3) i think falkentyne mentioned that after ac dc changed to 5 core 0 becomes most hot. also ive noticed temps increased but only on core 1 (0) and 3 (2) other two cores stays cool since repasted ive would say there are same since two repastes earlier

 

Need help with migrating from HDD to SSD. I googled and googled until my fingers bled. I purchased a GT73VR that did not come with an SSD drive. So I purchased a WD Black PCIe 256 GB NVMe SSD. I installed the SSD no problem, cloned the drive no problem but I cannot figure out how to boot from it. The drive is visible within Windows 10 and I can see the SSD drive in the storage information portion of the BIOS but not the boot portion. I tried removing the HDD and booting with just the SSD installed but still doesn't see the drive. Can anyone lead me someone in the correct direction? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

you need to use Macrium Reflect to clone it not any other utility or tool.

Once you clone it, change the boot device in the BIOS to your SSD then once you confirm that you are able to boot from the SSD, format the HDD and use it as a storage device.

 

You are wrong.
Some programs label the first core as core 0 instead of core 1.

So it's core#1, #2, #3, #4, or Core 0, 1, 2, 3

They are the same thing.
"First core and third core are hottest".

In second case, core 0 is "first core" and core 2 is third core"

can you understand this clearly now?

 

Why does the XtuService keep a 0.1MB/s disk usage all the time? Shown in the task manager.

 

Disable the system / CPU data monitoring, that will stop the logging of data, and stop the disk IO. Try exiting the systray app first, that might be enough, then you can monitor when you want, and exit it when you don't.

 

how to do that?

 

Try exiting the XTU systray app first, that might be enough, then you can monitor when you want, and exit it when you don't.

I'm on AMD only systems right now, so I can't check the XTU preferences for you, but check there, or disable the graph with the mechanics icon on the pane with the graph. You may have to deselect every item, or there might be a general disable option.

Like I said, I exit the systray icon, as I recall that's enough.

With Windows 10 it might be different as well, so I'd look at the thread on powershell commands for XTU. You could disable the XTU service and then use the command line to make the change, put it into a startup script to automate it.

How to automatically under-volt in XTU without opening it
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...y-under-volt-in-xtu-without-opening-it.802143

AFAIK after the settings are applied at boot, the service / systray app don't need to run. I always exit the XTU systray app after booting, 99% of the time I don't need to adjust anything, so it's only needed to apply the settings at boot.

If you are using XTU through DGC, then please see my post comments to @leo zefei

 

You mean the dragon center?
I didn't start the XTU software by myself, it is automatically launched by the dragon center in background.

 

By the way, in C:\Program Files (x86)\Intel\Intel(R) Extreme Tuning Utility, I can't find any log files, does this means the 0.1MB/s disk usage is just monitoring, but no log files is writing back to the disk and wasting my SSD life span?

 

No, I don't mean DGC, I mean the XTU systray app, see I don't use DGC after I learn the fan speeds on a new laptop I don't need to use it.

I prefer uninstalling DGC and directly installing XTU + MSI Afterburner + RTSS, and do it all myself...

The XTU systray app displays all sorts of useful monitoring data if you open it up, so while it's closed and sitting in the systray it's still monitoring, waiting for you to open the app to see the graphs. I don't need that monitoring, I use hwinfo64, so I exit the systray app after booting, it takes just a second, and it's habit for me after all these years of using XTU.

I imagine MSI DGC uses XTU data itself, so it's running the XTU service for it's own use.

I imagine you could use the Services interface in the System Manager in Windows 10 (does that still exist in Windows 10?), and STOP the XTU Service process after booting. You might see data not update in the DGC app - what MSI uses from the XTU monitoring service, but that should stop the CPU / IO from the XTU service

Experiment and let us know what you fine

 

You should be able to see active file writing / reading info per process in the Task Manager Performance Monitor under the Disk tab. Sort by Read / Write and see what's active when the XTU service is running and you see it's active.

It will show open file names with paths to the files being read / written per process. If the XTUservice isn't showing in there it's not reading / writing files.

AFAIK there are no files kept, it's only CPU usage, which is why I exit the XTU Systray app.

If you exit DGC, systray app too(?), does the usage go away?

Again, try stopping the XTU Service after boot and see if that solves it for you. Also disable it from starting at boot and check and see if it needs to be running at boot to Apply the settings, maybe it's not?

 

I found that if I turn off the DGC, the I/O usage of XTU shown in task manager is 0%.
If I turn off the XTU, the data in DGC could still changing(the DGC use 01MB/s disk too).
But even I turn on DGC and the I/O usage of XTU shown in task manager is 0.1%, but the open source monitor shows that there is no file read/written by DGC or XTU.

But I find that the killer keeps writing C:\ProgramData\Killer\BWC.txt.

 

So how are you going to leave it then, for your day to day usage?

loknar777
« Reply #2 on: 11-October-15, 23:52:04 »
In the Killer Network Manager app go to Network Settings and uncheck Enable Bandwidth Control.
Reboot if needed or restart Killer Network Manager app to take effect.
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=259023.0

 

Thanks for the reply. I tried this exactly but no go. Again, I see the drive in bios under storage information but not in the boot menu.

 

Build a bootable USB flash using WinPE (win10-based), and use WinPE to determine whether the drive is accessible or not. If yes, you may be able to restore the boot loader on the drive.

 

Just left the DGC turning on. Since I need it to control fan speed and switch between ECO and turbo mode and tune MSI's RGB to office mode.

I cant find the Network setting or Enable bandwidth control in setting

 

Thanks Kevin, not sure if I'm misunderstanding you but both the BIOS and the OS (Windows 10) see the drive I just can't boot from it.

 

your drive will not show in Boot Menu inside BIOS unless it has boot loader, I have 4 drives and all shows in System Storage but only one shows in Boot Menu which has boot loader and which tells the laptop to boot from it...do what @Kevin@GenTechPC suggested and it will fix the problem.

 

After 24 hours test result in same ambient temperature 71/72/69/71

Yesterday result was 72/72/69/70

@Falkentyne Grizzly Kryo not going anywhere.....

so changing the thermal pads to 0.5mm and a little bit sanding of HS can bring these core temps closer. will do the sanding again to close the gap in next few days and will post the result...

 

still lovely temps im waiting till 23rd msi replied to me today that they gonna order a new heatsink and send it to me so i wonder what they charge me. gonna do sanding on old one in an early march hopefully i get some finally good looking temps. ive also asked them if they can send new heatsink with a thermal sticker so i can see difference from the start but i doubt about it they gonna send their thermal sticker or compound with it

 

No they will not send new heatsink with thermal sticker or 10% chance they will (I haven't asked for thermal sticker when bought) however Tom can confirm you via email, here are year old prices, when I bought spare from MSI, please post latest prices when you get response from MSI

 

@Shehary check your temps in 1 week first.
If they are the exact same as they are now, you don't need to sand anymore. You then wouldn't be able to get temps closer without using LM.

 

Forgive me for being clueless to this problem. I thought I was fairly well fluent in most things PC but this is stymieing me. Primarily I don't want to muck up my bootable drive. I created a WinPE bootable USB drive. Booted from it (yes the BIOS sees it as a bootable device). I can access the PCI-E drive that I cloned. So the question is how do I restore the bootloader? I assume I use bcdboot?!? The PCI-E partition is on drive E. Thanks for the help!

 

You bought a replacement heatsink and you still had to sand it down, or were you talking about sanding down the original?

 

TrueColor can be used independently to adjust the RGB setting, everything in DGC is available individually, and if the integration of any one of them is inconvenient, like XTU, then I'd ditch DGC and use the independent control apps. There is also "MSI Silent Option" to adjust fan curves.

It looks like Killer changed the name to "Advanced Stream Detect", uncheck that and reboot.

@Killer_Networking is that correct?

 

Just two days after repasting, my temps are so bad. This is in cinebench. First temps were in 60s with 4 C apart cores. Look now !!!

 

Yeah it's the same problem Genocid has.
Heatsink pressure imbalance.
2 of the cores have great temps, 2 don't.
the ones closest to the VRM's dont.
So you can either RMA the heatsink as HMscott suggested, or Sand it down with 2000+ grit sandpaper (starting with the 'cooler' side first, since that has 'too much' pressure, e.g. slightly warped., then once you get the 'bottom' (cooler) side of the heatsink nice and shiny (much brighter and sharper orange than the top side), then you would at that point, do the entire heatsink with even strokes, until the top side is also nice and shiny (even though you already did the bottom first). Meaning you would be doing even strokes on the "dull" top side and the shiny side you already worked on. Then you have a nice flat heatsink with even pressure.
\


It would be a different story if all of the cores equally rose to 81C in two days. That would just be the paste drying out.

Look at @Shehary's' post. He did some sanding of the heatsink and he got all the cores very close. If his temps do not separate after a week of usage, then you will know the sanding trick does work

 

Yes i will try that for sure I can not stand my cpu in 80s and also so big difference. Up to 10 C is ok for me but this is too much and this cpu needs to be easy in 70 S after cinebench on 4 GHz...

 

delete.

 

I saw what you asked first. It is the same.

 

Have checked the screws? You could try loosen them slightly and screw down first the screws near where you have heat problems.

 

I could try. I followed numbers when I was screwed them down. This is my 3rd time repasting and always same problems after 3-4 days. 1 day is perfect. I think sand is only way to go.

 

I sand the original, spare one sitting in drawer as backup in case something went wrong with original though I tried the spare one with 1.0mm pads and there was core temp difference.

 

why not try to change the paste brand, why doing more effort when spending less and with less effort you can narrow it down to either it's thermal paste or HS ?

 

Why not replace the old one with the new one, I assume it's supposed to be "flat", and not need modifications....

 

I tried spare one but core temp difference were there (1.0mm pad used) didn't try with 0.5mm pads, it's a possibility that with .5mm pads spare one will give better result without mod but that I will try after a week, first wana see how the original HS with 0.5mm pad and after a sand will do for a week.

 

I would like to thank everyone who helped me on my boot problem. It seems like upgrading to the latest bios fixed my issue.

 

@Falkentyne My chips can't run 100% equal temp on all 4 cores (not all can do that), but my Cinebench R15 scores with 47x is excellent. 4 bench in a row and I finally beat my old 47x Cinebench R15 score with one point

Tested?
Noctua NT-H1 have never worked for me on my oc'd 4930MX in AW17. Benched more than 3-4 days and temp was back to ****y. And the older AW17, the last proper Alienware 17 in history had good quality heatsink. Only awful fan profiles.

 

Are you suggesting he uses Phobya nanogrease Extreme or Grizzly Kryonaut then?
Not everyone can find Phobya Nanogrease Extreme. Not an easy paste to find.
Maybe he could try Kryonaut but the same thing is going to happen that happened to Phoenix....
I got tired of dealing with pastes so I have LM on everything now.

But the problem is they both have good temps on 2 cores. It's ALWAYS cores 0 and 2 (core #1 and core #3) with weaker contact pressure that gets hotter.

@Ivan994 @GENOCID do you have any access to Grizzly Kryonaut? Or Phobya Nanogrease Extreme?