Good news. Coating the GPU and heatplate with an even thin layer to make sure you are getting 100% of the GPU cover covered with thermal paste is good.
When you pull it off next time, see how far the paste expanded and if there is any shiny metal showing around the corners / edges. And, if you have a nice GPU sized square of paste residue showing on the heatplate.
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The center of the GPU die and heatsink barely had any paste on them when i took off the heatsink, but the paste expanded over all the corners all but one time.
Are you saying maybe spread the paste with a plastic card or something before putting the heatsink down? orhmscott likes this. -
In your case, anything under 90c is ok -
It's at 88C so far now...
Whats baffling me even more is, i wouldnt mind 91C but it's thermal throttling, BUT afterburner isnt reporting a core clock change and XTU isnt reporting any changes on the CPU and neither report hitting thermal limits
Whats causing the thermal throttle??hmscott likes this. -
I've used plastic credit cards, matchbook covers, colored tab edges on folio's, thin metal, wood, whatever is available that lets you "artistically" gain control over the coverage.
There's a different technique on the CPU cover vs the heatplate, you need to find the corners of the CPU on the heatplate, mark them, and stay in the lines.
Once you get good at it, you can then trim a smidge all around the edges to keep the outmost goo from squishing out under pressure.
Too much is too much, but not enough will overtemp... it's something you learn over many applications.
You should know that the CPU when it starts up will thermal throttle due to the CPU fan curve reaction time not being fast enough. The CPU will heat up, the fans won't spin up, until the temp gets so high it thermal throttles and then the fans spin up.
That's why for benchmarking I use Full fan most of the time. When the noise will bother people around me I use hwinfo64's "reset button" below the readouts, it's one of the boxes - click it and it clears the initial thermal throttle red numbers -
I can see a burn in of the GPU die on the heatsink so i wouldnt have to mark it xx;
Im wondering if thats the GPU that overheated when i forgot to replug the fan one time and that somehow ruined the heatsink.
No tool says its thermal throttling but im losing a big chunk of FPS over time in the stress tests, but with cooler boost on that doesn't happen. So something thermal related is slowing down as it gets hotter, but no tool is reporting the limit being hit.hmscott likes this. -
You can use a really fine sandpaper to sand that off. -
Its dark around the edges and kinda rainbow inside. But could the scorching be a whole 10C extra? And would vinegar or something else mildly acidic work?
Also it has Antec 7 Diamond (aka carbon) TIM on it, so maybe that soapy stuff -is- carbon burned in?
I'd try Kryonaut but that stuff's expensive as hell and i dont wanna use it unless i know its not the heatsink.hmscott likes this. -
The carbon and rainbow gleen on the surface can be sanded back down to copper / metal and give better thermal conductivity to the paste.
It sounds like it's a mix of paste coverage and "dirt" getting in the way of the thermal exchange.
You improved the paste coverage and even without getting rid of the "burn" you got better temps.
A few degree's here a few degree's there, and you get what you want overall
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I dont think i really got better temps though.. While GPU 1 was 72 GPU2 got to 91 again.
GPU2's heatsink copper is also scratched to hell still, if that might be hampering as well, it's like a tiny bear with rabies was sicced on it. GPU1's heatsink is nice and clean
Any suggestions on sandpaper to use? I haven't sanded anything before. Also i could just buy a used replacement heatsink for like $30 if its probably the heatsink. -
I can't say it's only the "dirty" heatsink, it might be a heatpipe or another connection between the heat plate and the heat exchanger where the fins are that the fan's blow through.
It's something a tech at MSI would go, "yeah, that's it" swap out a part or two, and it would be good. -
I'm gonna give it one more repaste i guess with your method and then look into what to do about the oxidation and then either buy a new heatsink or try to get a price estimate on an RMA =S
hmscott likes this. -
How to Lap a Heatsink Guide
http://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/lapping/
Be careful to not put too much pressure on the surface. You aren't lapping - pulling off metal to get a flat surface - you are just trying to lightly sand off the crud on the heatsink.
The "rainbow" effect might be deep, so don't rub too much off. Getting the "burned" stuff off the surface should be enough.
You haven't shown a photo of it, which would make it easier to decide what effect cleaning might give you... -
I can get a photo tomorrow, dont feel like opening it again tonight. currently testing it with your paste method, painted on the paste over the die and heatsink using a Kryonaut wedge thing.
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It's hard to say... swapping in a new heatplate/heatpipe/heatexchanger, then a new GPU would be what I'd suggest if you had the parts -
I could try like, switching which card is in which MXM slot and testing again?.
The last firestrike stresstest passed at 99% though the GPU was hitting 91C at the end
This one with your paste method ended at ~88-89, though im running it a second time to see if 91C and throttle happens again. -
The metal parts will retain heat past the peak reading and if the fan speed drops as the CPU/GPU temp decreases (silicon reading, not metal reading) then the heat transfer system won't be able to cool quick enough between benchmarks, and the heat added each time will bump up the temperature "floor".
You need to let them cool down between tests.
Again, why I run full fan before, during, and for a while after a benchmarking session. So does everyone else I know, and my post temps and their posted temps are with full fan on. It would be a lot higher with auto fan speeds, it's just not going to cool things down quick enough.
You have to give the system the full ability to cool itself off. Starving it from cooling will store heat if you keep hitting it with high heat tests.
That's why I suggested reducing the voltage on that "crispy" GPU, it may need the help to keep cool. If it power throttles, let it. -
The first tests start with the GPUs at ~33C each, and it ends with GPU2 roughly 15-20C higher than GPU1 now.
The backtoback one i'm just looking for FPS loss over time with it (like you might get from a long gaming session, FFXIV hammers the CPU and GPU kinda hard at the same time in crowded areas). The high temperature is really uncomfortable but wouldnt bother me so much if it'l stop throttling so hard, earlier it was losing like 20% of the FPS over a single test from room temperature despite no clock speeds changing and no thermal limiters being hit.
Is there any documentation on undervolting the 980M MXM? I had a seriously hard time finding answers for how to overvolt it. -
MSI Afterburner might work if the voltage is unlocked by the custom vbios, I'd give that a try first...
If you are hammering the GPU's hard in a game and the temps are getting too high, your only choice is to increase the fan speed to increase cooling.
Some people use a portable air-conditioner and make a table to set the laptop on over the vents to get maximum cooling, but that's probably much noisier than the Full Fan mode
This may seem obvious, but you don't need the FPS over the refresh rate of the display. I set refresh to 100hz as a custom refresh with Nvidia Control Panel, and then I use Afterburner + RTSS to set a FPS frame limit of +-1FPS off refresh, like 99FPS or 101FPS, and that has the effect of stopping a lot of tearing, and at the same time limiting FPS load on the GPU / CPU.
The theory is any FPS over refresh is going to come in at odd fractional re-paints of the screen - increasing the chance of tearing and the panel refresh or re-painting rate isn't going to show the increased FPS over refresh - so why compute them?
That will drop load and temps on CPU and GPU *a lot* in most games.
Also reading about FPS drop in FFXIV it's likely an issue with the game too, lots of people see it. Crappy inconsistent Nvidia driver updates don't help either. And, if you made the mistake of installing Windows 10, that's a whole nuther level of inconsistency introduced. -
Afterburner doesn't have a way to undervolt it but nV inspector does. But idk what kind of undervolt i should be expecting with a 980M MXM (thats gonna be as hard to get an answer for as to if that soapy looking stuff on the GPU could cause a 10C increase), and still why it's 15-20C higher than the other one where everything but the heatsink condition (shiny and copper vs scratched to hell and soapy) seems to be the same.
FFXIV can wind up below 60FPS a lot even on the GT80. Firestrike tends to about par the temps XIV can give out, and XIV can actually end up hotter.
Also there doesnt seem to be a way to actually make a meaningful fan curve with Silent Option that isnt going to blast the fans all the time since it goes from Cold, Meh, Less Meh, Warm, very Warm, Mildly hot, and doesn't display temperatures or have options past those. -
2 980m's in SLI are about a 1070, so... you are going to hit games that you need to reduce eye candy on to get consistent frame rate.
I'd try to load the GPU / CPU at 80% - rough number, basically what I am saying is back off 100% load by 20%.
Tune the game settings for the hardware. Remember to turn SLI back on -
Whats the point of having SLI 980Ms if you have to load them like 960Ms though?
The vBIOS doesnt seem to let me undervolt
Is there an overclocking and/or more specialised subforum for dealing with temperature management on this forum? Hoping someone might be able to answer specifically how much an effect that soapy sheen might have.hmscott likes this. -
If the game is running 2x 980m's at 100% and only getting barely 60fps, then those GPU's aren't powerful enough even at 100% load to get you what you want at Ultra settings.
So you drop the eye candy down, picking settings that aren't as visually intrusive to reduce the GPU load, so you don't need to run at Full Fan's.
If you are running both your GPU's and CPU at 100% load, you *must* run Full fan mode.
If you don't mind the noise, like when you wear noise canceling headphones like me, then you can run at 100% x 3 and run Full fan mode.
You seem to want to use anything but full fan mode, so you are going to need to reduce the GPU and CPU load so the auto fan's can handle the heat.
My guess is that's about 20% down from 100% load x 3, but I haven't actually done it, maybe it's only 10-15%, so give it a shot
For most games running at FPS limit of refresh is enough to take the load down on the CPU and GPU enough to not require full fan mode. That's why I recommended that first.
Since your favorite game is loading everything at 100% at Ultra settings, dropping eye candy is the only way to get the fan speed requirement down.
My guess is cleaning it isn't going to help much, certainly not 10c. Unless the burnt parts are large and crusty, even removing them isn't going to make a lot of difference.
If you are considering RMA you might not want to remove it. The tech would probably like to see it to know the history so he can quickly and accurately debug the problem.
The more we discuss this, the more I think there is nothing wrong with your GT80, you just need to modulate the load and fan speed to evacuate the heat.
You are trying to get quiet operation at 100% x3 load, and that's just not possible.
Your toasted GPU might be edging the temps up even higher than I see, but overall I run with full fan mode under the kind of load you are trying to run, and seeing the same temps you are seeing at full fan mode.
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XIV will heat up the laptop no matter what unless i drop it to settings a GT540M could handle, there's just too many people. Past a certain point the CPU bogs down too but the cards still end up rendering 30-40 people + heat shimmer and skill effects that can only be on or completely invisible (meaning you cant see whats going on which is important).
Also to add i guess, the GPU die is completely normal looking, no scorch marks on it like there is on the heatsink.hmscott likes this. -
You are trying to get quiet operation at 100% x3 load, and that's just not possible without running full fan mode.
Your toasted GPU might be edging the temps up even higher than I see by a few degree's, but overall I run with full fan mode under the kind of load you are trying to run, and seeing the same temps you are seeing at full fan mode.
If you can't drop eye candy settings to run without full fan mode, then run full fan mode when gaming
Do you have the rear boosted up by a few inches higher than the front? That helps convective cooling. A laptop stand with a tilt will work, additional fans in the laptop stand don't seem to help the GT80 though.
Also make sure you are venting the output heat into free space, and not bouncing it back off a wall or corner back into the bottom vents air intake. -
Mind running the firestrike stresstest in auto mode and posting temps then? And i care less about the quiet and more that it doesn't have to be in full cooler boost mode all the time, again the 1080SLI on the GT83 does fine even when its under 100% load and the CPU is being pushed.
If GPU2 was even 5C lower coolerboost wouldn't be needed at all because GPU1 under full load only gets to maybe 75C. And 3DMark is almost a best case AFAIK for SLI scaling.
Lowering GPU2s temp target to 85C just causes a ton of thermal throttlingLast edited: Jun 15, 2017hmscott likes this. -
You are comparing two completely different designs - the GT83 even has a 3rd fan for the CPU and that takes some cooling load of the GPU's as well, on the GT80 the CPU shares it's heat with the GPU's.
Maybe you should buy a GT83VR 1080 SLI, that'll solve your problems
Do you have your CPU set to High Performance power plan? 100% / 100% CPU performance will keep heat pumping through idle times too. Maybe use Balanced 0%/100% so it reduces heat during idle times. Since the CPU heat is being added to the GPU cooling.
I don't have the same set up right now to set myself the same as you to compare settings, sorry, so all I can help with is what I know helps drop temps, you will need to use your game settings and custom vbios settings to reduce load / temps.
Try a little undervolt on the GPU, one at a time, experiment until you figure it out. Or, if you know the name of the custom bios google for discussions using it, dig up the contact info and send the developer a few questions.
You should have gotten documentation or a link to it as well.Last edited: Jun 15, 2017 -
Having to have coolerboost on for the laptop to not throttle 10-20% when it used to do fine is my problem, even my Razer blade that's gone trough a failed LM project and come back worse than it went in at doesn't fail these tests quite as much as the GT80 is atm, and thats with a heatsink thats bent and pinched from bad shipping.
hmscott likes this. -
If it was working ok before, and all that's happened is run the GPU without a fan to the point it burned the heatsink, it sounds like you are lucky it's even working at all...
So, get it fixed, live with it, tune it to make it more livable, those are your options.
Or, sell it and get a GT83VR - and don't pull it apart "to make it better".
Since you've now done this 2x on 2 different laptops... not to be harsh... just realistic.... I'd quit while you are ahead with a good stock set up, and stop playing with the hardware.
Or, keep going and build up the experience to do it right... but it seems like it's getting kind of expensive experimenting with high end laptops as your learning ground.
Sorry I couldn't be more help, but you need to work with what you have, not what you are dreaming is possible, or was possible before things "broke".
What you've got is working, it's just not able to run the game you want to run at FPS you want it to without running full fan mode, if it ever could have before it was pulled apart to make it better.Last edited: Jun 15, 2017 -
GPU2 always ran about 10C hotter than GPU1 but it hadnt started getting to 90C until at least a month or two after the burn incident. (after that i stopped checking, and it hadnt gotten to there when i did check, and even then i'm not sure how it overheating once is making it suddenly output more heat?)
And honestly the laptop isnt working in other ways either. The Intel 7260 wifi card died and the 8260 turns out to be made by Super Satan.
I'll switch the MXM slots the GPUs are in tomorrow and if the temperatures don't switch alongside them i'm going to assume it's because the heatsink is scratched so bad it looks like its had sticker gunk buildup for months.
I have a GT83 and have no reason to pull it apart because it works near flawlessly, and the blade was a case of take a gamble with its famously "worse if you repaste" heatsink or buy a new one that doesn't throttle the CPU down a whole 1GHz in games (in the case of XIV, a 15FPS hit when its already sub 60).hmscott likes this. -
Just so you know, I don't pull my laptops apart any more to make them run faster, because even though re-pasting can drop temps quite a bit, and make the fans run quieter under the same load, we then OC them to bring the heat back and the fans need to be run at full fan anyway.
Then those top OC benchmark results aren't worth a damn to anyone really, they are just numbers, and who cares really?
Can I use those top OC settings in games? Not really, even with full fan it's too high of a load on the system to risk it long term.
So I detune to a point above stock, but a point I could have reached - and do now reach - without pulling apart the laptop to re-paste
So what's the point then of doing all that screwing around when I can't even use it in games? No point at all, which is the point I am trying to make.
Leave the laptop stock, use software to OC the memory, CPU, GPU as possible with the stock configuration.
Use G-sync or frame limiter to keep the FPS in check to match refresh, and in most games that takes a huge load off the GPU / CPU / system, and things run much cooler and quieter.
In the case that you have a game that completely uses up all the resources of your system, dial back the eye candy and reduce the load to the point it's comfortable to run for hours on end.
If that's not to your liking, get a faster computer...
Trying to get a few percent more performance by hacking the hardware is more often then not going to hurt more than help.
And, even if you are 100% successful, it's not going to make more than a few FPS difference in improvement in the heavy load games, and in the rest you are just going to lop the top off the FPS anyway with G-sync or a FPS limiter.
If you get a laptop with bad temps, thermal throttling even before OC, then take it back immediately and get another one, don't take it apart and try to fix it yourself, it's not your job to make the laptop work correctly, you paid the vendor a large sum of money to deliver it to you working optimally.
Anyway, good luck, please come back and let us know how it works out.
It's odd that the GPU deteriorated over months since the "baking" incident, but I guess that makes sense, and also suggests it's going to continue to get worse...
Unless all the disassembly wonked the cooling too... IDK.
I don't know the failure modes for a "cracked heatpipe" maybe it slowly leaks or degrades over time, not carrying as much heat away from the GPU?
Glad to hear you have the GT83VR, maybe just sell the GT80 as is and get out from under it...? It just seems like a big time sync right now, time you could be playing games on your GT83VR -
The GT83 spends all of its time as a desktop since i can't figure out how to make transporting the dual PSU less clunky (they're fused at the end on top of the dongle that combines the outputs), I just wanna save the GT80 if i can without having to replace it because both AFAIK most of the 1070 laptops have TN displays, and the GT80 has a keyboard only rivaled by the GT83 and Predator 21x ($9000 for a GT83 with an ultrawide screen wth).
Whats also puzzling to me is it's losing FPS but the CPU nor GPU core or memory clocks are changing, unlike when thermal throttling where the GPU downclocks to try to cool down. XTU isnt reporting any type of throttling on the CPU either. -
Since then, there is a new PSU out that you could buy that will replace both 330w PSU's with a 780w PSU, it's got active cooling and lots of power, but isn't cheap either at $475:
EUROCOM 780W AC/DC Adapter
The World's Most Powerful 780W External AC/DC Adapter.
Great for High end Laptops, Small Form Factor PCs, Industrial PCs and Servers.
http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,404,0)ec
It's easier to pack and carry too
Make sure to tell them what you are going to use it on and I think they will support it for the GT83VR.
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>$500
I think i'd be better off buying two GT80/Clevo/AW17 PSUs and using those since at least they wouldnt be fused during transport
Can't drop back to 8.1 but it's been fine on w10 for the most part, it's actually my only computer that can play Forza Horizon 3.
The GT83 for god knows why can't launch it, and the Blade runs it at like 30FPS with drops at low-mid at 720p.hmscott likes this. -
I don't think you can run a single 330w even if you buy a single. I haven't heard of anyone trying though... -
I could actually try tomorrow, attempting 1 PSU for web browsing at least, don't dare try actually revving the graphics cards off it
hmscott likes this. -
This high-end box-cooler might be the answer...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...502-gl702-thread.794993/page-49#post-10546282Last edited: Jun 15, 2017 -
http://imgur.com/a/1O3O9
Some pics with and without the paste on -
Baking the GPU (and other support parts on the MXM) without a fan probably did the damage.
It will be interesting to see if the heat problem moves to the other slot when you swap MXM boards.
Again though, my own temps are high when running on normal auto fan, and if I am going to run a long test on CPU or CPU + GPU I run full fan mode all the time, and some before and after to cool the laptop down for the long run and after the long run.
Here are some temps from job runs I do for hours at a time, with full fan on, with maximum CPU usage and maximum usage on both GPU's. The jobs are interleaved and have preamble code to run, so the GPU average is less than 100%:
Note CPU cores 0 and 1 are a little higher in temp as I am doing other work while the jobs are running.
Again, this is with Max fans running throughout, for best cooling. If I didn't do this my temps would be much higher.Rothcall likes this. -
Turns out i wont have the time to switch the cards out for a while xx; ordered a replacement heatsink and some more thermal pads, thinner this time, gonna have to clean the cards a bit more, i think i figured out the strange smell - dried/drying out thermal paste. Also tried conductonaut for the heck of it since am gonna replace the heatsink anyways but it just made the temps worse until i went back to regular paste.
Someone on pcmr had a heartattack when they saw the heatsink and another noted it seems to be making somewhat poor contact with the die on top of it. one of the mounting screws is stripped up kinda badly from all the repastes and i need to replace it, any info on what type of screw they are? All i can tell is "really small phillips head" and that's not gonna cut it
I'm still not sure what of it overheating once would cause it to put off more heat now, if it was shorting out there'd be more serious issues in games, if it came unsoldered it'd *really* be showing it, and if it was drawing extra power it'd show up in nV inspector. Adding to this none of the card itself shows any signs of physical damage.Last edited: Jun 16, 2017hmscott likes this. -
Got the used heatsink.. and it's so bent you'd think it were modern art. Why do people insist on shipping delicate parts in what is almost literally a tissue box?
hmscott likes this. -
I wouldn't order a replacement from the same seller though, you'd likely get back the same one pounded flat -
Only option was them, one that was definitely beat up, and $160 from eurocom new. Gonna give a swap a chance and then go to considering if its worth getting a new heatsink for 3+x the price or just selling the GT80 As-Is and getting some 1070 laptop. =\
hmscott likes this. -
Then the exact bad part to replace is on them to figure out, instead of you buying them 1 at a time, until you replace the bad part.
Of course, MSI could do this for you too... -
Problem is repair shop is kindof out of the budget right now, $160 for the heatsink is bad enough already. $400 to ship the laptop out and lose it for a month and have it -maybe- fixed isn't really an option for me.
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Cheaper to leave the fans on Full Fan when under heavy load. -
hmscott likes this.
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Please i need immediate help!
My MSI gt80s 6qf just shut down. I was on AC and it just suddenly stopped.
A burning smell is on the tip of the charger and on the charger port on the laptop but no where else.
I was writing very important report and had to send it within an hour. I can't see that happening now.
Just need to hear my work is fine and what to do with the machine. I think it is in warranty.
Best regards,hmscott likes this. -
If you have had it for a while, then contact the seller if you bought from a boutique shop for help getting the laptop repaired.
Otherwise if you bought it retail, and registered it with MSI you can request help from MSI - we can't help you fix a burned component
If you haven't registered yet, you can still do that now, find your receipt and take a photo / scan it into a .jpg file, put it in a zip file, and attach it to a support Ticket you file with MSI here:
https://register.msi.com/
You create a login, register your laptop (use that purchase receipt/invoice), and file a Ticket requesting help / RMA.
It looks like the website is down from here (USA), which is pretty rare (1st time I've seen this), so you may have to try when they get into work in a few hours.
Please come back and let us know how it works out.
If you smell burning, please don't try to plug it back in or dig into repairing it yourself, wait for help from MSI -
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***The Official MSI GT80 Titan Owner's Lounge***
Discussion in 'MSI Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by -=$tR|k3r=-, Jan 13, 2015.