Eurocom Tornado F5/Eurocom Tornado F7 with 6-core Coffee lake cpus?

I’m sure we will see a lot very angry Z370 owners if they can’t upgrade when Intel start push out Z390 + 8 core cpu’s within 9 months after Z370. If Intel is this stupid, they will only see a lot more current and future customers move directly to AMD. What we seeing now with increased market shares for Amd, will be a weak storm vs. what’s coming.

 

Intel has already been that stupid with the z270 7700k to z370 8700k transition.

The current z370 chipset is a quickie to tide Intel over until the real / original Coffee Lake scheduled release in 2H18.

Of course Intel are going to screw up again and leave the z370 owners hanging, it's already been said to be so.

The 8 core CPU won't work in the z370, only in the z390. z370 is for the 8xxx CPU's only; the 7xxx CPU's are to remain on z270, with no path forward.

 

This is more as expected (3 cpu upgrades on same socket, are utopia and all should expext/know it stopped after Kaby). I'm more curious about what's happening with the Z370 and upgrade opportunity when the Z390 comes in 2H18. Only better performance + high possibilities for higher oc' vs. Amd's chips (for same amount cores) will still hold live in Intel.

 

You really should read your own posts

You posted that the 8700k should work in the z270 motherboards, and only fails post at the VGA stage. The 8700k is Kabylake based silicon, a simple rehash of the current generation CPU's, put in Coffee Lake (Tea Lake?) fittings, yet it doesn't work at all.

If Intel intended the "real" Coffee Lake (Iced Coffee Lake) to work in the z370, Intel wouldn't announce the z390 to be required for it, now would they?

z390 won't support Coffelake #1 (Tea Lake), and z370 won't support Coffee Lake #2 (Iced Coffee Lake), as that wouldn't fit Intel's mess up scenerio.

Intel may likely carry this forward for a few more generations beyond 2H18 as well, I wouldn't count on Intel getting their act together again for a few years forward from now.

 

Have never said 8700k should/will work in Z270 motherboards. Where is this stated? Haave always stated that (3 cpu upgrades on same socket, are utopia) I'm sure you are capable of understanding why Z370 coming first!! Then Z390 short time after.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...99-xeon-vs-epyc.805695/page-162#post-10605252

" "According to some board partners the extra pins used on Z370 are merely supported voltage pahs. Ergo, (but not confirmed) perhapsvice versa Coffee lake could have been supported on Z270 as well. But this last bit remains speculation of course. But the reality is, that other processors than Coffee Lake on LGA1151 could have been supported on Z370, yet Intel simply will not allow board partners to support them.""

 

And this is my own words?

 

You posted it.

That's why I said you should read your own posts... which means "pay attention to what you are posting", get it?

 

Oh well. This means we shouldn't post from any web sites.. If you do, then will this be used against you... Aka this mean it's your own words you posts. Oh'well, hmscott.

 

You are repeating the same thing you posted, and what I already said.

Your personal comments were disregarding all this, and is why I said you should pay attention to what you are posting, as it's not the same as what you are saying.

If you disagree with what is said, then say it in your post, don't just post a quote without comments, as we will take it that you agree with what is said in them.

That's what my point is, either don't post what you don't agree with, or comment on it so we know where you stand. As when you contradict either what you posted or what you said later, it's going to bring up questions.

I still don't know what you believe and how it differs from what you are posting.

You keep posting things that support the fact that Intel won't support z370 CPU's in z270 and z390, and therefore z390 CPU's in z270/z370, but I am guessing that you will pop up with additional personal comments later contradicting that once again, trying to defend Intel and it's actions.

 

I'm sure not all jump on your AMD agenda, hmscot. Same also for OC'ing. Have from the beginning stated that I support the brand, who can give me what I want!! And for your grief, Amd is too far away from offer this. And the best part, j00 know it

 

@Papusan

We are talking about Intel's messes, and your inconsistent postings about them.

You can't post facts about Intel's failings and then later excuse Intel by ignoring the facts you've already posted.

At least not without being called on it.

 

I'm not as shocked as others that Intel does not want support 3 gen cpu's on same socket. But I see that you are of the same opinion as others oh'well, we can stop here

 

the 2H2018 could very well be like Dec/nov of 2018, which might not come in a laptop until early 2019. assuming what eurocom stated is correct, we will see a 6c CFL laptop in coming up november which would mean its more than just 9 month, a worthy upgrade at least imo. if we can't upgrade to 8 cores later well fk its intel i buy knowing and expecting it to happen. if someone or prema can make it work, or intel allow it to work, then we win.

i mean, 6 cores at 5ghz already kinda beat AMD's 8 core at 4ghz. close enough in multithread workload to be called the same, while in single threaded workload it destroys AMD, which most of our software are still on 1-4 cores only.

papusan is being more detailed here, if its really VGA stage then i wouldnt be surprise someone come up with some kind of mod like cpu pin mod or changes microcode to make it work. look at how m18xr2 can take sandy + ivy generation cpu, and how p570wm was modded to take in ivy and ivy xeons.

the cpu simply isnt out yet to mass majority of modders so can't really confirm at all at this stage. also these things take time too, iirc people cracked microcode haswell 18core xeon and allow it to be overclocked, years after it came out.

 

The Q is... Will Intel let AMD have 8 cores processors for themselves yet another whole year? What you in fact saying... This means Intel can only offer people gaming chips for mainstream. 6 cores vs. 8 core R1800x in other types tasks than gaming... Yeah, j00 know what I mean.

 

yea 6 vs 8 for now. honestly i want 8 real bad been sitting on ivy forever man i need new computer. my ivy 8 cores is equivlent to ryzen 8 cores in terms of performance cause i clock mine at 4.3ghz. but im lacking new chipset feature like pcie SSDs, 64gb ram etc

 

If Intel isn't clever enough to make successive CPU's work in successive motherboard chipsets, I can understand why you might dream of Intel screwing up the lockdown of future CPU's in socket 1151.

Let the Intel screwup's continue, unrewarded.

 

no its the other way around. its because they are clever they can do this and get away with it.

@Papusan that graph, looks like 4.2ghz is the limit for ryzen and thats top end. intel's would be around 5.3 to 5.4 for top few selective ones. if laptop cooling permits it, its definitely better to go intel 6 cores at a higher frequency, snappier computing is the way to go!

 

More confirmation of z370 / z270 / z170 incompatibilities:

Clevo + Coffee Lake: Status?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-coffee-lake-status.807915/page-40#post-10605978

4 core Intel 67xx / 77xx CPU's - z170 / z270
6 core Intel 87xx CPU's - z370
8 core Intel 97xx(?) CPU's - z390

So LGA "upgrade-ability" is limited to the same release range of CPU's, with no future upgrades possible due to incompatibilities.

 

i will get that z370 + 6 core clevo if CPU heatsink is sufficient along with a super 14nm++ silicon lottery chip. then when end of 2018 comes, theres F7 from MSI and clevo's next new laptop both with z390, it'll be good to see which is better. MSI for better cooling, clevo better in terms of amount of storage devices available, both will likely have good bios/vbios support from prema/eurocom.

 

I wish for a GT75 variant with ryzen. I don't mind the clock ceiling, considering I already run at similar clockspeeds and it is very doubtful we will reach anywhere to the clock ceiling on these laptops without serious tweaking and mods.

I would trade my 4.1ghz core i7 for a ryzen 1600 up to 1800, at 4ghz.

 

I don't recall their higher end ones getting AMD chips before, but there were some GE/GX models with it.

 

Why MSI or Clevo don't think to use asmedia support for making AMD mobos?
I heard AMD mobos are made by asmedia

 

Its mostly AMDs fault. Their CPUs were decidedly low end. All of them. The GX seried used high end gpu, but paired with basically crippled CPUs. Thatd why they never flew with the high end market.

It got worse when AMD stopped being competitive in the GPU department too. So manufacturers avoided making them altogether.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

Maybe Ryzen will change their minds.

 

6core 5ghz intel!!!
in ST performance it'll blow ryzen away, in MT it'll match 1800x at 4ghz in performance.

too bad still dual channel memory and only 12mb of cache..

 

Yeah, I don't think so.

4.5ghz is more likely, and matching the 1600x also more likely.

I would count on teething problems as well with the rushed Kabylake refresh / chipset / motherboard power design.

To get 1.5x straight-line 6c /12t performance from a 95w CPU is going to in reality take 137w-150w.

Unless the motherboard makers learned their lesson from the x299 platform - where they designed for spec instead of the unknown reality - there could be problems with the z370 motherboard's not delivering enough power.

Cooling is also going to be a problem through that small IHS interface, 1.5x-2x the thermal load through the same contact patch.

It's going to be interesting

 

mm i didnt really get what you're trying to say lol. but as for power usage of course i know it'll take like 180w to overclock 5ghz or possibly more. we can only hope clevo do give us some nice cpu heatsink

 

Matching 1600X ? [email protected] is equal +-1575cb. I'm sure we will manage 4.8GHz clock speed as minimum(as this is 11.6% OC for all 6 cores). And max out at 4.8GHz will be a disappointment, if this will the end result.


Edit. FYI 4.5GHz for 8700K is barely 5% overclock on all 6 cores, and not even high enough to put all cores similar as single core Turbo Boost Or same as overclock your 7700K to 4.6GHz.

 

seriously the wait for 8700k is killing me, and then thinking about theres still more wait for it to go into a laptop, and need to wait to see the heatsink.. GG

 

We should have more info on what's coming once they lift the NDAs on the 5th. It's the 5th right?

 

A bunch of new content came out today for the Z370 / Coffee Lake, I tried to find the best available, and posted them here:

Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake Z370
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/intel-core-i7-8700k-coffee-lake-z370.809268

 

When will be the availability of the Z390 chipset for F7 and when will this laptop comes out?

 

Asus Interview: Andrew Wu (ROG Motherboard PM)
http://www.bit-tech.net/features/tech/motherboards/asus-interview-andrew-wu-rog-motherboard-pm/1/

" bit-tech: Can you go into more technical detail about why the new CPUs are not backwards-compatible with Z270 motherboards?

Andrew: Actually, it depends on Intel’s decision.

bit-tech: So it’s not a physical limitation? Intel said it was to do with power delivery.

Andrew: Not really. It [the power delivery] makes a little bit of difference, but not much.

bit-tech: So what are they referring to – the 20 or so unused pins from before?

Andrew: Yes.

bit-tech: So if you wanted and Intel let you, you could make Z270 compatible?

Andrew: Yes, but you also require an upgrade from the ME [Management Engine] and a BIOS update. Intel somehow has locked the compatibility.

bit-tech: The 20 previously unused pins that you mentioned, what are they now used for?

Andrew: Many of them are used for power control. It's possible that these are in preparation for the high-core count processors.

bit-tech: Intel has also said that overclocking has been improved with ‘enhanced package power delivery’. Do you know what that refers to? Is that also the 20 pins or something else?

Andrew: Because this is a refresh platform, Intel has somehow made it even more mature, so it will be even more stable than the previous generation. From what I can see, this refresh doesn’t mean a bad thing for users. Usually, the kind of customers that already have a Z270 board will probably not upgrade for this generation. For the majority of Z370 users, maybe they have been using their PC for three or five years, so these are still good products for them to upgrade to.

bit-tech: So you’re not looking to target Z270 customers, you’re looking at older customers?

Andrew: We’re targeting anyone that wants or needs to buy a new system. It’s logical that many people on Z270 don’t need to upgrade. But there are still some people that would like to try these six-core processors, and they will still upgrade their systems. For users that have older systems, Coffee Lake offers great performance. You’ve got better power efficiency, higher clock speeds, the option of more cores, and faster storage. "

 

Lets just agree that no one really upgrades their laptops, they just buy new ones. Majority speaking anyway.

I probably won't upgrade this I'll just buy another one in 3 years..

 

Most of customers usually perform upgrades on memory and SSD, other things too but those are rare.

 

Therein lay the fallacy of LGA upgradeability.

Just because you can remove the CPU and replace it with a new one, doesn't guarantee Intel's product upgrade cycle will offer you a new and better CPU to fit in the same motherboard socket in the future.

Intel has killed the relevance of LGA upgrades.

Intel has locked out vendor enhancements with the Intel Management Engine (Spyware) that controls the motherboard vendors ability to offer you innovative deviations from Intel's desires.

The work around to disable Intel's Management Engine:

Now you, too, can disable Intel ME 'backdoor' thanks to the NSA
Researchers discovered an undocumented configuration setting that can used to disable the Intel ME master controller that has been likened to a backdoor.
(Spyware and Control of your PC outside of your control).
https://www.csoonline.com/article/3...able-intel-me-backdoor-thanks-to-the-nsa.html

"A team of researchers from Positive Technologies discovered an undocumented configuration setting, designed for use by government agencies, to disable Intel Management Engine 11. Now you too can partake in this government privilege to inactivate Intel’s proprietary CPU master controller."

But, vendors won't jump that Shark, as their Billion $ companies would be at risk.

Hopefully AMD's socketed CPU's in the form AM4, TR4, and ? for future growth will have the promised 4 years of life CPU upgrades, with forward and backwards compatibility.

 

You can't disable Intel ME but you can disable Intel AMT (part of ME) on applicable systems. Intel ME is crucial to the operation of system so if it's disabled then the system will not function.

 

When the NSA Disable Bit is flipped, the ME is not active after the boot (where the ME is "needed" to functionally boot), and when the ME is disabled and not active to answer to network requests or other pre-authorized "activity" unbeknownst to the motherboard owner, you've removed one of the (many?) backdoors into your system.

"The researchers discovered an undocumented field called “reserve-hap” and that HAP could be set to “1” for true. Apparently, the NSA wanted to ensure the agency could close off any possible security risk by disabling Intel ME. The researchers wrote, “We believe that this mechanism is designed to meet a typical requirement of government agencies, which want to reduce the possibility of side-channel leaks.”"

Spoiler: more details from the article...

"When told about the research, Intel told Positive Technologies:

In response to requests from customers with specialized requirements, we sometimes explore the modification or disabling of certain features. In this case, the modifications were made at the request of equipment manufacturers in support of their customer’s evaluation of the U.S. government’s “High Assurance Platform” program. These modifications underwent a limited validation cycle and are not an officially supported configuration."

"If you want to disable Intel ME, you should first read the in-depth technical explanation about the researchers finding “an undocumented PCH strap that can be used to switch on a special mode disabling the main Intel ME functionality at an early stage.” Positive Technologies also made its Intel ME 11.x firmware image unpacker utility available on GitHub. Use at your own risk; the methods to disable Intel ME were described as “risky and may damage or destroy your computer.”

Windows 10 is still there doing it's thing, no matter how well you think you've stomped on it's privacy invasions.

If there is a NSA bit to disable Windows 10 invasions, it's not widely known.

Likely as not, it's a different release of the OS, just like the Chinese variant.

Again, LGA is dead, there are no CPU upgrades generation to generation, and it appears there are no (timely?) MXM upgrades, there is only ease of replacement.

Ease of replacement is certainly a good thing unto itself

 

No, you can't disable ME completely. It serves as cerebellum in the brain. Also, AMD has the same thing too.

Code:

The disappointing fact is that on modern computers, it is impossible to completely disable ME. This is primarily due to the fact that this technology is responsible for initialization, power management, and launch of the main processor. Another complication lies in the fact that some data is hard-coded inside the PCH chip functioning as the southbridge on modern motherboards. The main method used by enthusiasts trying to disable ME is to remove everything "redundant" from the image while maintaining the computer's operability. But this is not so easy, because if built-in PCH code does not find ME modules in the flash memory or detects that they are damaged, the system will not start.

Regarding LGA upgradeability, this still exists on desktop systems but even so there aren't many people that perform CPU upgrades after the initial purchase.

 

Read the article, you are thinking about the previous work around that used "stubs" of code that effectively removed the higher level functions of ME, this Disable bit completely stops ME from loading and running further:

"The researchers discovered an undocumented field called “reserve-hap” and that HAP could be set to “1” for true. Apparently, the NSA wanted to ensure the agency could close off any possible security risk by disabling Intel ME. The researchers wrote, “We believe that this mechanism is designed to meet a typical requirement of government agencies, which want to reduce the possibility of side-channel leaks.”"

If there are no better CPU's to upgrade to, then there is no upgradability, whether the customer wants it or not, the 8700k being a great example.

Just when there actually is a validation of the whole LGA upgradeability, Intel steps in and craps all over our dreams.

"Screw Intel", Long Live any Alternative's to Intel, which for now is AMD.

 

I understood it, I was emphasizing the importance of management engine because of its functions. Even in the end the article says the use of tool can destroy your system = brick. However, I think it's less of concern for non vPro systems and systems that are behind proxy/firewall because if we were going to be hacked we could have done that ourselves by exercising risky behaviors on our systems.

 

Disabling any intrusion vector is the responsibility of every system administrator, to ignore such gaping holes in access is to fail at your job to protect the systems under your care.

Corporate access for control is fine, the inability to disable open access to anyone that has the technique for access is criminal.

The Intel ME remote access vector is a criminal act of negligence on the part of Intel, again.

You can ignore it if you like.

Here's a huggy bear to make it all better...

Spoiler

 

Please bring USB ports on the left side of the notebook + the 120Hz screen panel on the F7 model

 

Plus I forgot these for the F7 with Z390 chipset:

• A different keyboard, similar to the Alienware 17 R1, GT75VR or better. Normal subtle white backlit is enough, no MSI "Silver Lining Print", it's not necessary plus is disgusting; please!
•Add 1 tiny simple USB 2.0 or 3.0 at the back of I/O for Mice connection only, kind of like some Dell makes sometimes. Amazingly convenient (hate cables in my sight/messy hands)
•Add to the back cooling exits, some side grills, you do the test but we all assume might help with cooling. Don't care if weight increases because of the adding of some more copper.
•Audio headphones jacks are in perfect position, please leave them there.
•Keep left palm rest as cool/fresh as possible
• Make the 2.5" drive bay 15mm height compatible. (edited)

Already mentioned:
•Move the 3 USB 3.0 interfaces to the left (We're not in 2009 anymore, please!), with some sort of internal daughter board.
•Use the Innolux/ChiMei N173HHE-G32 8bit 120Hz/5ms or 3ms TN screen panel, with light anti glare, or better.

Come with all this and myself (and many others I assume) we'll be your F7 ambassadors for life to spread the word, not only here in NR, but everywhere how the F7 is to be the Ultimate Portable System for the New Nomad Lifestyle

PS: I know this one is a no-go because you use and already approved/design matrix.. but if dreaming move away from plastic and use a better quality magnesium alloy/aluminum shell, with dark/gray shades. EG: Alienware 17 R1 or old 2012 Samsung Series 7 np700z7c kind of look and materials feel.
Ps2: Please Eurocom pull all these so I don't have to move and build a mini-ITX system...

 

add a few, pls add
- iGPU support MUX
- at least 3x M.2 slots and 2x to 4x SATA 2.5" slots for 17"
- if one of 2.5" is gonna be 15mm, make the sata power cable 12v (need to contact MSI/clevo for this)
- a CPU heatsink cooled by 2 dedicated fans (a big must)

 

@Eurocom Support
is there an upgraded bios for making i7-8700 compatible with this 16L13?

 

No plans for now to update BIOS in order to support 8700 series CPUs. According to Intel POR specs Z170 doesn't support 8700 so their may be some issues with certain functions like audio or drivers. We are planning to launch Tornado F7 with Z390 or C246 chipset and support both 8th and 9th gen of CPUs. Meantime our BIOS Team is checking if we can support 8700 in Tornado F5 with some limitations.

 

have a look a this thread
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/coffee-lake-bios-updates-p751dm2-g.814350/

there is a new modded bios for a clevo p751dm2-g, and coffee lake 6-cores cpus are now compatible

 

Will this be the chassis for F7? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Recommended-Gaming-Notebooks-with-8th-Gen-Intel-CPUs.295836.0.html